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7 minutes ago, greengeek said:


I believe that a critical factor in finally having a thorough rebuild is the length of JDs contract. THAT is the fuel powering the rebuild. Now that he’s proven that he can bring in great draft capital with excellent trades, we need effective drafting to complete the process.

Yup.  Joe wouldnt take take the job unless he got the 6th year, he was allowed to be patient and not try to win the back pages from the giants each offseason, and that owners would get the heck out of the way.

This is the most excited Ive been as a Jet fan in a long time.  We are doing this the 100% correct way.  I cannot wait to see what this team looks like 3 years from now after these next 2 draft classes.

Thank you joe Douglas!!!!!!!!

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First, the doubters said that Joe would be hard pressed to get a 1st round pick for that prima donna Adams. They were right since he got 2 1st and a 3rd! Secondly, the doubters said that Joe woul

Guys get a 6th rounder he did it again! lmao 

Well..Everyone claims that a 2 next year is a 3, in value .. same with the 4 next year being a 5..it's next year. So we got a 6 this year...We gave up the number three pick and three 2nd rounders for

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15 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Guys get a 6th rounder

he did it again!

lmao 

yep 

he is in charge of the second worst team in football and it got worse not better on his watch

by this time parcells had us in the playoffs and started out with a one win team

 

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It is truly remarkable how he came into the very least talented team in the league bar none and has managed to stockpile draft choices?

But NOW he has to start shooting aces with those picks. It's only one thing to stockpile picks. We need to see a better product starting THIS season.

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13 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Joe Douglas has put on a GM clinic on how to tear it down and get to the point we are today:  We are building this from scratch.

This is scratch my friends.  Enjoy it.  Cause the team this GMing beast is about to put together is going to the Super Bowl in 4-5 years.

The 1st true rebuild the Jets have ever done is taking place right now.  And its loooooong overdue.

 

Coming To America GIFs | Tenor

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Just now, Adoni Beast said:

JD originally turned down this job. He demanded a 6 year deal, for a reason.

That first year and a half was to cleanse the building. Roster, poor free agent signings, aging overpaid vets, malcontents, coaching staff etc.

Now he’s past that and has set up this team for his vision.

• His HC

• His QB

• His front office

• Boatload of picks

• Cap flexibility.

The rest of his contract is now aligned with the HC and soon-to-be drafted QB.

This is his team and the upheaval is complete.

We’re done with the demo, its foundation and framework time.

The success or failure of this team is now COMPLETELY on the back on JD,  starting today. No more looking back at the disaster that was Mike Maccagnan. No more blaming Adam Gase for being Adam Gase. In theory, and in theory only, this is the blueprint for building long term success. In Joe I trust, for now. 

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1 minute ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

The success or failure of this team is now COMPLETELY on the back on JD,  starting today. No more looking back at the disaster that was Mike Maccagnan. No more blaming Adam Gase for being Adam Gase. In theory, and in theory only, this is the blueprint for building long term success. In Joe I trust, for now. 

Wait, is JN still allowed to complain about the Johnsons?

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Looking at somewhat recent Jets' pick-for-pick trades:

  • 2017 Jets traded a 6th rounder for a 2018 5th rounder
  • 2016 Jets traded a 5th rounder for a 2017 4th rounder
  • Even part of the Adams trade was the Jets giving up a 2022 4th rounder for Seattle's 2021 3rd rounder. He didn't have an exact paper value, and the heart of the trade was for the two 1st rounders. The later 4th for earlier 3rd was a throw-in that Douglas still somehow pried loose, likely from Seattle showing a terrible poker face how badly they wanted him. 

Others that were pick-for-pick (or just had a practice squad level throw-in that didn't change it much)

  • 2017 49ers traded a 5th round pick for Denver's 2018 4th round pick
  • 2017 Saints traded a 3rd round pick for the 49ers' 2018 2nd round pick (plus a 2017 7th worth 1 "point")
  • 2018 Lions traded a 4th round pick for Pats' 2019 3rd round pick
  • 2019 Seattle traded a 7th round pick for Jaguars' 2020 6th round pick

It's always in this direction; never the opposite direction. The only way pick-for-pick even in the same round in year 2 is if you're talking about a guaranteed/known very late pick this year for an expected/hoped higher-pick next year. 

The value only gets a little dicier when you're talking picks in/near the top of the 1st round, since the pick value isn't nearly as linear way up top, but none of these Jets trades involve top 20 picks (and weren't expected to at trade time).

A pick this year is worth more in trade than a pick next year. The whole catch is one team gets to assess & use the player a full year earlier: it affects this year's record (for both teams); it affects higher-priced veteran contracts in the following year's free agency period; and it ultimately can affect front office careers by waiting too long to realize that value. 

A future second round pick has lower trade value than this year's second round pick; to even suggest otherwise is just silliness. 

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13 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

It is and its a breath of fresh air.  Joe D is building this patiently and with long term success as the goal.  no quick fixes here.

Baltimore, Pittsburgh, New England etc.  Thats what Joe is looking for.  Long term success.

I agree with all of this.  If Wilson is good Joe's going to look like a genius within a couple of years.  If he isn't there will still be some bumps.  But even if Wilson isn't that good Joe should still get at least three more years to build up the roster.

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7 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

The success or failure of this team is now COMPLETELY on the back on JD,  starting today. No more looking back at the disaster that was Mike Maccagnan. No more blaming Adam Gase for being Adam Gase. In theory, and in theory only, this is the blueprint for building long term success. In Joe I trust, for now. 

Yep, been a jets fan for over 50 yrs, this yr is as pivotal as i can remember. If he knows what he is doing, with all the draft capital and cap space, he should be able to turn this around. Last yr, i was underwhelmed by both his drafting and free agent signing. He gets way too much credit for Becton. Everyone knew we were taking an Ot. Both becton and wirfs were there, so hard to miss, and after 1 yr, Wirfs was the better player...

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15 hours ago, Untouchable said:

2021:

1st

1st

2nd

3rd

3rd

4th

5th

5th

6th

6th

 

2022:

1st

1st

2nd

2nd

3rd

4th

5th

6th

6th

7th

7th

 

 

What the hell do you mean that isn’t a sh*t load of picks?

If Douglas gets the QB right and is even remotely worth his salt at drafting (which is supposedly his forte) then the Jets are in the best shape they’ve been in since....hell, decades.

i never looked at all of the picks the jets will have in the upcoming drafts.  this is very good.  if the team pulls together this season and saleh/lafleur get the job done then they will be well positioned to keep feeding in good players.  and these players will be coming in at the time when wilson should be nearing the top of his game. 

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23 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Wait, is JN still allowed to complain about the Johnsons?

Yes, but only for what they do from today going forward. CJ gets credit for installing JD and Saleh. The caveat is that if the current administration fails, you can go back to complaining about the past.

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33 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

The success or failure of this team is now COMPLETELY on the back on JD,  starting today. No more looking back at the disaster that was Mike Maccagnan. No more blaming Adam Gase for being Adam Gase. In theory, and in theory only, this is the blueprint for building long term success. In Joe I trust, for now. 

the built in excuse for the next 2-3 years will be you cant expect Jets to win with  a rookie or young qb and Joe cant be blamed for the this

 

 

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7 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Yes, but only for what they do from today going forward. CJ gets credit for installing JD and Saleh. The caveat is that if the current administration fails, you can go back to complaining about the past.

I was joking.  I'm not a complainer.  It's just football, after all.  Entertainment (or lack thereof), nothing more.  

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46 minutes ago, kmnj said:

yep 

he is in charge of the second worst team in football and it got worse not better on his watch

by this time parcells had us in the playoffs and started out with a one win team

 

Wow, this is a really great point if you ignore the fact that every detail about the two situations were completely different. 

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22 minutes ago, riggy001 said:

Yep, been a jets fan for over 50 yrs, this yr is as pivotal as i can remember. If he knows what he is doing, with all the draft capital and cap space, he should be able to turn this around. Last yr, i was underwhelmed by both his drafting and free agent signing. He gets way too much credit for Becton. Everyone knew we were taking an Ot. Both becton and wirfs were there, so hard to miss, and after 1 yr, Wirfs was the better player...

as parcells say you are what your record says you are-parcells took a one win team to the playoffs right away

right now all we know about Joe is

he is the gm of the second worst team in football in year 3 of his contract

his draft was avg at best , his free agents avg at best (I would say poor)

This year is a make or break year-2-4 wins is not acceptable again and the roster should be able to compete

 

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Just now, JetFreak89 said:

Wow, this is a really great point if you ignore the fact that every detail about the two situations were completely different. 

you are what your record says you are-I dont want to hear excuses

Parcells took a one win team to the playoffs 

Joe  took a 7 win team to a 2 win team those are the facts

if Joe builds us a champion I be president of the Joe D fan club-until then..... I wont crown him

 

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15 hours ago, Untouchable said:

2021:

1st

1st

2nd

3rd

3rd

4th

5th

5th

6th

6th

 

2022:

1st

1st

2nd

2nd

3rd

4th

5th

6th

6th

7th

7th

 

 

What the hell do you mean that isn’t a sh*t load of picks?

If Douglas gets the QB right and is even remotely worth his salt at drafting (which is supposedly his forte) then the Jets are in the best shape they’ve been in since....hell, decades.

This is 100% correct. The team will have a lot of draft capital for the next two years and can build a team full of drafted talent. I loved Darnold but the truth is that the team failed him, he had bad coaching and a team devoid of talent. Darnold hopefully will shine with a real HC. For the Jets, we get much more compensation than we thought, three picks total (2 & 4 next year and a 6 this year) which will help a talent devoid team. I believe Zach Wilson will light it up under the Shanahan O. As a Jets fan, I implore my fellow Jets fans to have hope that Joe continues his good GMing and we keep building a great talent base. 

LL

 

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15 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

My fondest draft memory was:

“With the 51st pick in the 2016 NFL Draft, the New York Jets select...Christian Hackenberg...Quarterback...Penn State.”  

Lol I was at a Mexican restaurant with friends, exploded and made the bartender to change the TV. Proceeded to down a bottle of Hornitos anjejo. 

My worst draft memory. Well, after Marino. 

That was how I was when we got Gholston, and Jerod Mayo went 3 spots after to NE.  Then we got Eric Ainge.  I quit watching.

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14 minutes ago, kmnj said:

the built in excuse for the next 2-3 years will be you cant expect Jets to win with  a rookie or young qb and Joe cant be blamed for the this

 

 

JD has his head coach, QB, draft picks, cap space, and proper organizational structure. Tolerance for losing will be significantly less than when Maccagnan was GM. Bowles being foisted on Macc and the organization structure were the built in excuses. All of the stars have been aligned for JD, and I am not going to twist myself into a pretzel trying to defend losing like I did with Macc. 

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31 minutes ago, rangerous said:

i never looked at all of the picks the jets will have in the upcoming drafts.  this is very good.  if the team pulls together this season and saleh/lafleur get the job done then they will be well positioned to keep feeding in good players.  and these players will be coming in at the time when wilson or Fields should be nearing the top of their game. 

modified it

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Well 40+ years of putting up with the same rhetoric year after year it starts getting old.   A Oline that has a QB under siege game after game is not a plan for success.   So the Sam is 23 and totally got no Oline support in his 3 years.  The QB whisperer turned out to be a QB destroyer.   

So ok now JD moves on from Sam.  It's a total rebuild regardless of what JD states.   Don't get my pessimism wrong, I hope Zack is the answer.   Reality he is unproven in a major competitive way.   We need a winning culture here until that happens pessimism is well deserved.   So when the wins start becoming more the norm with this franchise then the losses nothing changes.   I believe 40+ years of supporting this teams gives me that right.  

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15 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yep. Particularly since future picks have the value of a full round later. He gave up the player(s) this year for pick(s) in the years after that. 

Not that I'm unhappy with the trades, but

Adams two 1sts & a 3rd technically was a trade up from a 2022 4th to a 2021 3rd, not an extra 3rd for nothing, but let's forget about that. Since they're all years later the 2021 1st = 2020 2nd; 2022 1st = 2020 3rd; 2021 3rd = 2020 4th.

2020 Adams for the value of 2020 draft picks in rounds 2, 3, and 4. 

Ditto with Darnold

Trading Darnold this year not next year; Panthers get the player now & don't really start paying until later.

2021 Darnold for 2021 6th (meh) + 2022 2nd & 4th = cumulative value of about the same as Carolina's 3rd round pick in 2021. 

 

If we're being honest. 

I think you're being loose with the interpretation and purpose of the valuation concept. When considering present vs future value, the rule of thumb is to value it in the trade as a round later to mitigate the risk because of the uncertainty of the pick which can obviously be later in the round and the uncertainty of supply of players. It's a safe way to do it. The actual value of the return is established next year, so it's not like a 2022 2nd round pick is actually a 2022 3rd round pick for obvious reasons. The actual valuation isn't ever a round less, it's always more. By how much more is the uncertainty factor.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

I think you're being loose with the interpretation and purpose of the valuation concept. When considering present vs future value, the rule of thumb is to value it in the trade as a round later to mitigate the risk because of the uncertainty of the pick which can obviously be later in the round and the uncertainty of supply of players. It's a safe way to do it. The actual value of the return is established next year, so it's not like a 2022 2nd round pick is actually a 2022 3rd round pick for obvious reasons. The actual valuation isn't ever a round less, it's always more. By how much more is the uncertainty factor.

 

 

I'm solely referring to trade value in all these posts, not the relative value because of one's subjective opinion of a draft, or what that pick becomes after a year of doing without the player. 

In trade, a 2nd round pick next year does not have the same trade value as a 2nd round pick this year.

Quite commonly a 2022 pick IS valued the same as a 2023 3rd round pick. That's actually quite common when they're traded pick for pick. I posted a bunch of examples.

If you can come up with a single example of a pick being traded even-up for the same round a year later -- and without an extreme circumstance, like a team with a top-5 pick in the round trading with a team with an expected bottom-5 pick in the round next year. e.g. the Jets' 2nd rounder next year is expected to be more valuable than the Chiefs' 2nd rounder next year, so our 2022 2nd rounder has more value than theirs. When you're talking the extreme tops/bottoms of rounds, the round numbers are incidental (the value of pick #33 is closer to pick #30 than pick #60, despite the nominal round numbers). 

Generally, yes, you want to trade pick for pick, a 4th rounder this year will get you a 3rd rounder next year, and so on.

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2 hours ago, kmnj said:

as parcells say you are what your record says you are-parcells took a one win team to the playoffs right away

right now all we know about Joe is

he is the gm of the second worst team in football in year 3 of his contract

his draft was avg at best , his free agents avg at best (I would say poor)

This year is a make or break year-2-4 wins is not acceptable again and the roster should be able to compete

 

95-100 percent agree. To be even more specific, if Wilson busts, he will never come close to being here for the rest of his contract.. Where i disagree, we are clearly the worst team in out division, the other 3 will be .500 or better, i don’t see us winning more than 4-5 games.

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3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I'm solely referring to trade value in all these posts, not the relative value because of one's subjective opinion of a draft, or what that pick becomes after a year of doing without the player. 

In trade, a 2nd round pick next year does not have the same trade value as a 2nd round pick this year.

Quite commonly a 2022 pick IS valued the same as a 2023 3rd round pick. That's actually quite common when they're traded pick for pick. I posted a bunch of examples.

If you can come up with a single example of a pick being traded even-up for the same round a year later -- and without an extreme circumstance, like a team with a top-5 pick in the round trading with a team with an expected bottom-5 pick in the round next year. e.g. the Jets' 2nd rounder next year is expected to be more valuable than the Chiefs' 2nd rounder next year, so our 2022 2nd rounder has more value than theirs. When you're talking the extreme tops/bottoms of rounds, the round numbers are incidental (the value of pick #33 is closer to pick #30 than pick #60, despite the nominal round numbers). 

Generally, yes, you want to trade pick for pick, a 4th rounder this year will get you a 3rd rounder next year, and so on.

Theory is fine but reality always wins out. Next year's 2nd round pick can work out better than having a 2nd round pick this year, especially with the uncertainty of the pandemic and the evaluation risk built into this draft. To say it is worth less may make sense in theory but not work out in reality. 

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6 hours ago, jetsrule1969 said:

Theory is fine but reality always wins out. Next year's 2nd round pick can work out better than having a 2nd round pick this year, especially with the uncertainty of the pandemic and the evaluation risk built into this draft. To say it is worth less may make sense in theory but not work out in reality. 

It's not theory it's reality. Every trade goes that way in reality, not in theory. 

If you can find me a trade in reality, where someone's traded a 2nd round pick one year for a 2nd round pick the following year - particularly without painting the corners (bottom 5 slot pick this year for expected top-5 slot next year) then let me know. 

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3 hours ago, undertow said:

Haha yeah it looks like the doom and gloom crowd was on the right side of this one.  

I've always had my doubts about him but really wanted to have hope he was the guy to turn things around. I bought in. After (the first 6 games of) this season I've lost all hope I had for Joe Douglas. I'm done subjecting myself to Jets football on my Sundays. It's not even entertaining football, unless one is a masochist.

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On 4/5/2021 at 3:42 PM, Untouchable said:

LOL

People have been sitting around saying how much Darnold sucks for at least the last 6 months and some of you guys are pissed because we didn’t flip a largely disappointing QB for a kings ransom?

I loved Darnold. Him falling into the Jets lap is hands down my fondest draft memory.

But it didn’t work out...

Oh well. Wish it would’ve gone differently and the Jets would’ve surrounded him with adequate talent and a coaching staff who could distinguish their assh0les from their elbows...but it is what it is.

This is a completely different front office and coaching staff. Aside from Woody and Chris, there is literally no one left in Florham Park that played a part in drafting Sam Darnold.

Realize that it’s a 3 year old sunken cost, move on and embrace the Zach Wilson era with a sh*tload of additional picks and cap flexibility over the next two years.

here is the other side of the coin:  Joe Douglas is in the third year of his honeymoon with the Jets as their general manager. The Jets record on his watch is 10-28, with the team having been outscored 991-599 in that span.

The Jets were actually respectable (for them) record-wise in 2019, going 7-9. In 2020, Douglas’ first full year as GM, they went 2-14 and they’re 1-5 this season. For those of you scoring at home, that’s 3-19 since 2020, with the team having been outscored 632-323.

Maybe you can embrace this new found era, but gotta tell you seem like its the same record being played again,.  Btw, when was the last time a Jet team gave up 50 pts?  1995 under RK.  ny 2 cents. 

NY Post sports... 

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53 minutes ago, SOJ said:

here is the other side of the coin:  Joe Douglas is in the third year of his honeymoon with the Jets as their general manager. The Jets record on his watch is 10-28, with the team having been outscored 991-599 in that span.

The Jets were actually respectable (for them) record-wise in 2019, going 7-9. In 2020, Douglas’ first full year as GM, they went 2-14 and they’re 1-5 this season. For those of you scoring at home, that’s 3-19 since 2020, with the team having been outscored 632-323.

Maybe you can embrace this new found era, but gotta tell you seem like its the same record being played again,.  Btw, when was the last time a Jet team gave up 50 pts?  1995 under RK.  ny 2 cents. 

NY Post sports... 

I wrote this in early April

Of course things have changed since

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