Jump to content

Examples of Zach Wilson pocket pressure & reaction breakdown


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, CTM said:

I honestly thought this was a critical thread at first lol

I guess the point is he doesnt throw it up for grabs? But later there was a few gifs listed as great passes that were actually very dangerous throws into coverage.

I'm not seeing what others are seeing 

 

It’s a fair thread. I highlighted the mishaps, as well as good reactions to pocket pressure in all the game I’ve done cut ups on. Instances of him dirting passes, throwing passes away, quickly identifying the mismatches, etc., climbing the pocket and splitting defenders with passes.

Your definition of dangerous throws in coverage would be much different than mine. 

again, appreciate the input regardless. Worked hard on it. Good to at least get a discussion going from it, whether that be positive or negative.

  • Upvote 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 186
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I'll be updating this thread as I go because theres so much I wanted to cover but just can't in one post. I wanted to start this series of breakdowns away from Wilson's 2020 season and as far awa

[Game 2] 2019 VS Washington Okay, got my boner pants on for this first one vs Washington 2019. Wilson puts his man in motion, ball is snapped & instantly pressure comes in from the left

@Mogglezhere is USC 2019 for you. [Game 3] 2019 VS USC Wilson is not an all-world athlete, but on this first play, he shows impressive short area quickness & even a bit of fire

Posted Images

1 hour ago, CTM said:

I honestly thought this was a critical thread at first lol

I guess the point is he doesnt throw it up for grabs? But later there was a few gifs listed as great passes that were actually very dangerous throws into coverage.

I'm not seeing what others are seeing 

 

Only  because it’s not there.

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, JiF said:

Lol it’s like the rival homer version thread of what win4ever did.  Good stuff though.  Funny how one person can watch these clips and see wow and another gasps for air.  

most intelligent post in thread.... not being facetious 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Everyone’s go-to Wilson slight now is that Wilson runs backwards often and gets himself into danger, but if anything, this tape has just made it even more clear to me that he doesn’t do it all that often at all, in fact, I can only name 2 times he did anything remotely close out of 5-6 game mix of 19’ & 2020 film. He also doesn’t only operate well in chaos. The USC game showed some really good throws from the pocket. Beautiful ones. Decisive ones.

That’s fair but the NFL level defenses usually accentuates faults like that. Throw in a line that might  not be really clicking before midseason and it’s got to concern you a bit. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

It’s a fair thread. I highlighted the mishaps, as well as good reactions to pocket pressure in all the game I’ve done cut ups on. Instances of him dirting passes, throwing passes away, quickly identifying the mismatches, etc., climbing the pocket and splitting defenders with passes.

Your definition of dangerous throws in coverage would be much different than mine. 

again, appreciate the input regardless. Worked hard on it. Good to at least get a discussion going from it, whether that be positive or negative.

Ah yes, appreciate the effort for sure and great work!. Just came away with a very different conclusion. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Ehh I see what you’re saying, but I didn’t think it was so bad. He didn’t lead his man into a sprinting defender like Sanchez did to Dustin Keller against Ray Lewis. The WR had time to shield his body from contact once he went up and the pass was in front of him. I cut this one out for the thread because Wilson correctly identifies the lapse in coverage and quickly understands which receiver is going to be freed up by the defense’s mistake. Agreed that the pass was a little high but definitely not detrimental to the WR if you ask me.
 

When I was playing WR in school, I would of been told these are good passes that need to be hauled in. It’s a little high but it’s not leading me into a collision and as a WR I need to understand not every pass has perfect ball placement or even ideal placement considering the position the defender is in before I catch the ball. 
 

I just don’t see this throw as dangerously as you do.

Appreciate the input, however.

This was dangerous to the receiver, not in terms of INT. It was actually bhind where his momentum was taking him, his momentum was taking him past the safety. A properly placecd ball (@jif) and its a bigger play + no big hit on the WR imo

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, CTM said:

Ah yes, appreciate the effort for sure and great work!. Just came away with a very different conclusion. 

Fair enough! - I’m just glad to get some discussion going, and even moving a little away from all the Darnold talk. 21 days until draft night & somehow I feel like I’ve been here before lol.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CTM said:

I honestly thought this was a critical thread at first lol

I guess the point is he doesnt throw it up for grabs? But later there was a few gifs listed as great passes that were actually very dangerous throws into coverage.

I'm not seeing what others are seeing 

 

It's nutty dude....everything these clips show is everything everyone hates about Sam and here this board is, eating it up like these are good clips.  lol  Wild bro, 3 years ago, this tape would have been crucified...but since Pat Mahomes does unorthodox other world type sh*t, this is now, good tape?  Running right, throw left across your body, across midfield, was the biggest no-no in Football and dude are like, yo, peep this play!!!!!!!  lol

 

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, CTM said:

Ah yes, appreciate the effort for sure and great work!. Just came away with a very different conclusion. 

This, 100%.  Great work, very much appreciate, I just walked away terrified vs. encouraged.  lol

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, CTM said:

This was dangerous to the receiver, not in terms of INT. It was actually bhind where his momentum was taking him, his momentum was taking him past the safety. A properly placecd ball (@jif) and its a bigger play + no big hit on the WR imo

Yeah, He definitely could of placed it better and he had a clean pocket enough to do so. I just really enjoyed seeing the ability to identify the blitz and anticipate the soft spot left over. That was my main high point of that pass play.

 but you have a solid point. The ball definitely wasn’t in the best place.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, JiF said:

It's nutty dude....everything these clips show is everything everyone hates about Sam and here this board is, eating it up like these are good clips.  lol  Wild bro, 3 years ago, this tape would have been crucified...but since Pat Mahomes does unorthodox other world type sh*t, this is now, good tape?  Running right, throw left across your body, across midfield, was the biggest no-no in Football and dude are like, yo, peep this play!!!!!!!  lol

 

Yep, and this kid isn't in near the talent of Mahommes. I really don't see it at all. And I know Qbase is higher on him than Darnold but it's hard to put a ton of stock on this season given covid. Had he been a 3 year performer I'd be more willing to be more trusting of the numbers

I'm kind of waiting for Allen Funt to jump out from behind one of these threads 

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Biggs said:

Now that we traded Darnold I've gone from loving Wilson, Fields and Lance to hating all 3 of them.  WTF is wrong with me. 

I still like Fields but  was hoping it would be in a trade down scenario. No clue on Lance haven't looked into it much

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, JiF said:

This, 100%.  Great work, very much appreciate, I just walked away terrified vs. encouraged.  lol

I think Wilson & Darnold do a lot of the same things as far as being a gunslinger & off schedule playmaker, I just think Wilson’s mechanics and form are so much cleaner, I think he sees the fields better, I do think he can get a little bit too risky for my preference at times, but I really like that he dirts passes, throws ball away and lives to fight another down much more than Sam. He has a better understanding of limitations within the play. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm late to the party so I'll echo what Jif and CTM have said, but a bunch of the clips you've posted seem like they don't belong in a pro-Wilson thread. I'm seeing numerous high throws where the receivers are bailing him out, and not great pocket work. Yes, he's got a strong arm and is athletic enough to move around with vigor, and it's evident in a lot of the clips. But each time, I can't help but remember that the clips are of him playing with superior talent against inferior talent, whereas in the pros at least for the next 1-2 years, it's going to be him playing with inferior talent on the Jets against superior talent for the opponents. All of the things we wash away because of the end result in college will be accentuated in the pros when the end result will be much different.  

Either way, great work @Patriot Killa. Looking forward to more of it. 

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, CTM said:

I still like Fields but  was hoping it would be in a trade down scenario. No clue on Lance haven't looked into it much

Haven’t looked much either but I really think that NDSU Pro Style offense with tons of identical WCO/PA concepts benefits Lance early. 
 

Seems like he has a really high ceiling but might be the biggest “?”of all the QB’s.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, CTM said:

I still like Fields but  was hoping it would be in a trade down scenario. No clue on Lance haven't looked into it much

I usually love every first round pick we ever drafted up until they prove to suck.  This year I'm booing the pick from the get go.  

Lance had a great pro-day.  Looks good in shorts.  Frankly the Stamford kid had a good pro-day and probably could have gotten him in the 3rd round.  

I'm starting to think the entire draft process is nothing more than an NFL hype machine.  I think they should use a dart board and look at the team it picks in 5 years against every NFL team.  It wouldn't shock me if Dart board gets into the HOF in 20 years.

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Now that we traded Darnold I've gone from loving Wilson, Fields and Lance to hating all 3 of them.  WTF is wrong with me. 

lol all a part of the process we go through every 4-5 years when it’s time to restart the cycle. You’ll have your favorite pinned down by draft day.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I usually love every first round pick we ever drafted up until they prove to suck.  This year I'm booing the pick from the get go.  

Lance had a great pro-day.  Looks good in shorts.  Frankly the Stamford kid had a good pro-day and probably could have gotten him in the 3rd round.  

I'm starting to think the entire draft process is nothing more than an NFL hype machine.  I think they should use a dart board and look at the team it picks in 5 years against every NFL team.  It wouldn't shock me if Dart board gets into the HOF in 20 years.

That's nice

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, CTM said:

I still like Fields

I like Fields too. Obviously I like Wilson the most, but, Fields, he’s who I would pick if Wilson wasn’t available. 4.4 40, big framed, strong & accurate. So weary of OSU QB’s because of their system. I don’t believe the college makes a QB a bad prospect though. I like him second best, for sure. Don’t get all the Mac Jones love.

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I'm late to the party so I'll echo what Jif and CTM have said, but a bunch of the clips you've posted seem like they don't belong in a pro-Wilson thread. I'm seeing numerous high throws where the receivers are bailing him out, and not great pocket work. Yes, he's got a strong arm and is athletic enough to move around with vigor, and it's evident in a lot of the clips. But each time, I can't help but remember that the clips are of him playing with superior talent against inferior talent, whereas in the pros at least for the next 1-2 years, it's going to be him playing with inferior talent on the Jets against superior talent for the opponents. All of the things we wash away because of the end result in college will be accentuated in the pros when the end result will be much different.  

Either way, great work @Patriot Killa. Looking forward to more of it. 

Nothing wrong with disagreeing come draft time. We all have our preferences, who we like, what we see on film that others may not see, our standards for what make a good prospect, all that great stuff lol.

I just want us to come away with a franchise QB no matter who JD decides is the best option.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, JiF said:

It's nutty dude....everything these clips show is everything everyone hates about Sam and here this board is, eating it up like these are good clips.  lol  Wild bro, 3 years ago, this tape would have been crucified...but since Pat Mahomes does unorthodox other world type sh*t, this is now, good tape?  Running right, throw left across your body, across midfield, was the biggest no-no in Football and dude are like, yo, peep this play!!!!!!!  lol

 

I think his accuracy is slightly better than Sam’s but other than that and Sam’s crimson locks I honestly don’t get it. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I usually love every first round pick we ever drafted up until they prove to suck.  This year I'm booing the pick from the get go.  

Lance had a great pro-day.  Looks good in shorts.  Frankly the Stamford kid had a good pro-day and probably could have gotten him in the 3rd round.  

I'm starting to think the entire draft process is nothing more than an NFL hype machine.  I think they should use a dart board and look at the team it picks in 5 years against every NFL team.  It wouldn't shock me if Dart board gets into the HOF in 20 years.

There is a growing part of me that also feels this way. 

When you see hyped prospect after hyped prospect fail, you can't help but start to feel cynical about the entire process. 

Having said that, I like Douglas a lot. I loved his first two draft picks last year and I think his ability to generate as much draft capital as he did from Jamal Adams and Sam Darnold was nothing short of amazing. And, at some point, we almost have to draft a good QB by accident, don't we?  

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

That’s fair but the NFL level defenses usually accentuates faults like that. Throw in a line that might  not be really clicking before midseason and it’s got to concern you a bit. 

That’s also fair. It’s definitely not something you want him doing at all on the next level. I’m confident that part is easy to coach out of him.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

I think his accuracy is slightly better than Sam’s but other than that and Sam’s crimson locks I honestly don’t get it. 

Wilson’s decision making is better, better mechanics, better field vision and throwing ability as a result.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Patriot Killa said:

Wilson’s decision making is better, better mechanics, better field vision and throwing ability as a result.

At the college level yes, he also takes better care of the ball. Yet, at the pro level and the speed of the game they better have a very sound game  plan for this kid every game. If not? He’s gonna end up Just like Sam. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

At the college level yes, he also takes better care of the ball. Yet, at the pro level and the speed of the game they better have a very sound game  plan for this kid every game. If not? He’s gonna end up Just like Sam. 

You aren’t wrong. That’s true. Speed of the game will force him to speed up his decisions. I believe his processor is good enough for it. Idk if Wilson is a film junkie but he’d better be, or else, he will end up just like Sam.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Patriot Killa said:

You aren’t wrong. That’s true. Speed of the game will force him to speed up his decisions. I believe his processor is good enough for it. Idk if Wilson is a film junkie but he’d better be, or else, he will end up just like Sam.

I have certainly heard from numerous reports that Wilson is a film junkie but it could just be his PR machine.  We are probably going to find out.

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

You aren’t wrong. That’s true. Speed of the game will force him to speed up his decisions. I believe his processor is good enough for it. Idk if Wilson is a film junkie but he’d better be, or else, he will end up just like Sam.

Yeah, that’s pretty much where I’m at. I know nothing about judging QBs though, I loved Sam after the Rose Bowl and literally cried tears of joy when we drafted him. I actually think Fields would be a more practical lower floor pick but don’t honestly have a clue. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

I have certainly heard from numerous reports that Wilson is a film junkie but it could just be his PR machine.  We are probably going to find out.

I think something that will really help him cut down on turnovers in the NFL as it compares to Darnold is the good passing habits that Wilson has over Sam. Wilson’s mechanics are maintained when the play breaks down. Sam’s lower base mechanics were extremely wide & awkward at times & because of that, he never allowed himself to get the most of out the throw even if he didn’t need it sometimes.

Well sometimes you do.

let’s say he needs some extra torque off his hitch step to really drive this ball in between two DB’s & that’s really the only way to complete the pass, here comes an Edge rusher who just beat his man off the block, because it’s habitual for him at this point, Wilson is able to side step and really get his all into a throw like that, his feet are so much faster, he can really let it rip from a healthy stance as soon as he finds fit. whereas to where if Sam side stepped, he’d most likely throw it with a wide base & and as a result the ball floats longer in the air and is a prime candidate to be intercepted. I don’t think Wilson’s arm is Josh Allen strong, but Wilson has a very capable arm, and more importantly, it has some zing. He can really knife the ball in there & I think that’s the result of good habits as passer.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...