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Is it still vital for the Jets to take an edge rusher early on?

You've added Lawson and a supposedly healthy Rankins to Quinnen, JFM and Foley up front.  I'd pencil Quinnen in for at least 10 sacks and Rankins had 8.5 the last time he was healthy.

I'd forego edge at this point and address spots that are barren such as CB and RG with an eye on the future RT if you're going to move on from Fant after this season.

2- Wilson

23- CB

34- OG

JMO

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2 minutes ago, Joe the Breadman said:

To be honest i would think the team definitely drafts one early....  maybe 2. Fill that edge rusher/ defensive end room up.

We certainly have enough draft capital 

Even without a proven starting CB on the roster?

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Short term it’s certainly not vital but it’s pretty much the most premium position that it’s easy to envision a guy at 23 being a plug and play starter.

I’m also pretty sure they already have 10 DL who have a great chance make the roster and half of them are signed for next year. On one hand I think that reduces the odds a little, but on the other hand I bet they’d love to have their long-term answer across from Lawson.

Still think a trade up or down from 23 targeting Pitts or an interior offensive lineman makes the most sense.

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3 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

DL is a strength of the team right now.  This unit will not be addressed in the draft.  it is going to be offense, offense, offense.

I'd guess offense, defense, offense, offense, offense, offense, etc....

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Just now, derp said:

Short term it’s certainly not vital but it’s pretty much the most premium position that it’s easy to envision a guy at 23 being a plug and play starter.

I’m also pretty sure they already have 10 DL who have a great chance make the roster and half of them are signed for next year. On one hand I think that reduces the odds a little, but on the other hand I bet they’d love to have their long-term answer across from Lawson.

Still think a trade up or down from 23 targeting Pitts or an interior offensive lineman makes the most sense.

I think trade down from 23 is their top choice but just spitballing.  Could be 29 but question remains on edge or CB/OL.

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4 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

DL is a strength of the team right now.  This unit will not be addressed in the draft.  it is going to be offense, offense, offense.

It has to be. No fun if you get your favorite toy smashed to pieces. 

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If Phillips is available at 23 I would take him without hesitation. Would make our D Line dominant and really set Saleh on his way with his defense. They could focus on an offensive lineman at 34. There will be a lot of them available.

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We signed lawson we signed rankins who can rush the passer we drafted zuniga last year.  F that drafting an edge guy.

I am not even happy that we will probably HAVE to draft a CB at 23 or 34 because Douglas has done zero to shore up that spot.

We are getting a QB at #2, oline and oline or oline and weapon after that.

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15 minutes ago, Joe the Breadman said:

To be honest i would think the team definitely drafts one early....  maybe 2. Fill that edge rusher/ defensive end room up.

We certainly have enough draft capital 

I suspect that Douglas won't use all of those picks on separate players. I imagine he'll adopt a more Miam/Buffalo style of drafting where they use later picks to move up to get players they like. I'd say the Jets draft no more than 7 actual players per year. 

I know people fall in love with the idea of 'drafting / signing 100 players at every position" (it doesn't hurt to bring them for a looksie! Right?!), but you can't possibly evaluate those guys and in trying to evaluate too many players at a position you're using up snaps that could go to guys who will be on the team.

Wishing a severe longshot isn't worth it. If there's a guy you like then use some of those picks to move up and get a guy you think has better value than the draft slot. You can sign undrafted free agent for your long shot 'hope and prayer' players. 

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26 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Even without a proven starting CB on the roster?

I think these guys like Austin and hall.  They can take a corner in the 4th or 5th round.

And with cuts during camp, another player will spring loose they can sign.

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What do you think Fatukasi's value is? With the depth on the interior, does he become a trade chip to move up and pick a premium player that is falling? 

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5 hours ago, AFJF said:

Is it still vital for the Jets to take an edge rusher early on?

You've added Lawson and a supposedly healthy Rankins to Quinnen, JFM and Foley up front.  I'd pencil Quinnen in for at least 10 sacks and Rankins had 8.5 the last time he was healthy.

I'd forego edge at this point and address spots that are barren such as CB and RG with an eye on the future RT if you're going to move on from Fant after this season.

2- Wilson

23- CB

34- OG

JMO

i'm guessing it's not necessary to take an edge with a top pick.  bringing in lawson buys them time to draft a project or they could use a top pick next draft.  i wouldn't mind seeing one of the top picks on a corner but i have a feeling saleh's defense is going to rely more on team defense instead of having a true lock down corner.

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5 hours ago, AFJF said:

I think trade down from 23 is their top choice but just spitballing.  Could be 29 but question remains on edge or CB/OL.

Fully agreed that a trade down is their top choice.  Hopefully its a situation where, by moving down, they end up feeling comfortable enough to grab the top IOL or RT on their board.

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If we are drafting QB #2, then not getting 2 OL in the next 3-4 picks will be a wasted #2 pick IMO... The only way we should go CB is if Farley or Newsome is there at 23, and I know we need one, but OL is priority #1 after we draft the QB.

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5 hours ago, AFJF said:

Even without a proven starting CB on the roster?

Saleh plays mostly zone. Get a killer pass rush and you don’t need super athletes to play corner. 

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A lot depth at CB in this draft. I can see a few of these guys being there in early 3rd round.

 

Tyson Campbell

Ifeatu Melifonwu

Erin Stokes

Aaron Robinson

Tay Gowan

Kelvin Joseph

Benjamin St-Juste

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1 hour ago, Jdub03 said:

What do you think Fatukasi's value is? With the depth on the interior, does he become a trade chip to move up and pick a premium player that is falling? 

Ah, yes, the ole we have a player who has done a decent job so we better ship him off as soon as possible method. I'm with you, heaven forbid we keep good players for depth/rotation and find better players to force them down the depth chart when we could ship them out!

With luck, that draft pick won't pan out like 50% of them don't (for the best drafters) and then we won't have a 'better' player or depth! Truly, Woody, you are genius. 

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With all the draft capital we have next year, we can wait on a sub-par Edge class, that happens to have solid CBs and IOL and just hit those spots as they are needs as well.

Plus, we have Quinnen in his natural position now who, along with Lawson, should generate an excellent pass rush.

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17 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

Ah, yes, the ole we have a player who has done a decent job so we better ship him off as soon as possible method. I'm with you, heaven forbid we keep good players for depth/rotation and find better players to force them down the depth chart when we could ship them out!

With luck, that draft pick won't pan like 50% of them (for the best drafters) and then we won't have a 'better' player or depth! Truly, Woody, you are genius. 

Wow, aren't you peach. Are you always an ***hole, or is it just a bad day for you. 

There are reasons to package a rotational depth player from a position of strength to bring in a premium player at a position of weakness, like say Oline/CB. No, I forgot, we shouldn't evaluate our players and their fit in Salehs defense.

If you don't have anything to actually contribute to the question/discussion then just ignore it.

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12 minutes ago, Jdub03 said:

Wow, aren't you peach. Are you always an ***hole, or is it just a bad day for you. 

There are reasons to package a rotational depth player from a position of strength to bring in a premium player at a position of weakness, like say Oline/CB. No, I forgot, we shouldn't evaluate our players and their fit in Salehs defense.

If you don't have anything to actually contribute to the question/discussion then just ignore it.

Disagreeing with you doesn't mean there's "nothing to contribute". I'm sorry you had a bad idea. 

Now, I'm sure you have a special keen insight you're going to share with us on how Saleh's amazingly awesome defense can't figure out how to use depth and the incredible logic that if you have some depth (on dline where it's critically important) and trade it all away then you can still have depth!

Coming from someone who openly admitted he didn't know the value of the player he advocated trading away and wanted to keep the worst QB in the league for 'competition'. So you want a player who's proven to be awful for 'competition', but want to trade a consistent, competent player away to move up a few draft spots. 

Sorry I mistook you for Woody, Chris. 

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1 hour ago, jeremy2020 said:

Disagreeing with you doesn't mean there's "nothing to contribute". I'm sorry you had a bad idea. 

Now, I'm sure you have a special keen insight you're going to share with us on how Saleh's amazingly awesome defense can't figure out how to use depth and the incredible logic that if you have some depth (on dline where it's critically important) and trade it all away then you can still have depth!

Coming from someone who openly admitted he didn't know the value of the player he advocated trading away and wanted to keep the worst QB in the league for 'competition'. So you want a player who's proven to be awful for 'competition', but want to trade a consistent, competent player away to move up a few draft spots. 

Sorry I mistook you for Woody, Chris. 

There is nothing wrong with disagreement and debate. That's what fuels learning and helps shape opinion. That isn't what you did though. You like to force feed your opinion as fact and insult the person you are allegedly disagreeing with. Some of us are here to learn and have good friendly discussion. That doesn't appear to be why your here. Sorry, I'm not gonna take the bait from what I'm perceiving as a trolling attempt. I'm bowing out. If I'm wrong about you I apologize. 

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Just go balls deep for OL and WR this year man. Next year we got 2 1st round picks and should feel comfortable going for pass rusher then. Gotta protect the rookie QB first - priority one this year. For the love of God please protect this QB -we’ve seen how quickly the inability to get in a rhythm and get completions can be on a young QB. 
 

but if Greg Newsome is there at 23 you take him lol. But everywhere else you go offense. 

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The Jets biggest free agent deal was to DE Carl Lawson. They also signed DE Vinny Curry from the Eagles. Joe Douglas drafted Jabari Zuniga in round 3 last year.

Unless an elite edge rusher drops significantly and falls into the Jets lap I would be very disappointed if we use any of our first three picks on an edge rusher.

Not only this, but there is some really good value on day three. Round 4 or 5 could be a good spot to take a somewhat one-dimensional, situational pass rusher 

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1 hour ago, Jdub03 said:

There is nothing wrong with disagreement and debate. That's what fuels learning and helps shape opinion. That isn't what you did though. You like to force feed your opinion as fact and insult the person you are allegedly disagreeing with. Some of us are here to learn and have good friendly discussion. That doesn't appear to be why your here. Sorry, I'm not gonna take the bait from what I'm perceiving as a trolling attempt. I'm bowing out. If I'm wrong about you I apologize. 

If everyone who disagrees with you is a troll then you're gonna have a rough time. 

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17 hours ago, AFJF said:

Is it still vital for the Jets to take an edge rusher early on?

You've added Lawson and a supposedly healthy Rankins to Quinnen, JFM and Foley up front.  I'd pencil Quinnen in for at least 10 sacks and Rankins had 8.5 the last time he was healthy.

I'd forego edge at this point and address spots that are barren such as CB and RG with an eye on the future RT if you're going to move on from Fant after this season.

2- Wilson

23- CB

34- OG

JMO

it’s a good point and I guess the key now is the change in system from the 3-4 front we’ve been running for about 15 years to Saleh’s aggressive 4-3...in short, where is the edge in that system?

There are better football X&O guys than me here who can probably explain this better, and I may be wrong but I guess the ‘edge rusher’ has gone from being an OLB in our previous system to one of the DE’s in the even front we are about to employ.

The change is significant for a number of reasons and reading between the lines it appears we’ve gone from a system where the DL were primarily assigned to engage blockers and push the middle of the pocket, ostensibly clogging up running lanes and occupying the interior OL enough to free up the uber athletic edge guys to apply pressure outside and get sacks, to a system where that is flipped on it’s head and now the front 4 need to be athletic enough to attack and wreak havoc from the inside. Meanwhile the OLB’s are more perimeter defenders, lighter and smaller, expected to go sideline to sideline and drop into coverage.

it appears in the Saleh defense the front 4 will be unleashed and expected to cause mayhem. This in theory means more pressure and sacks but it does potentially come at the expense of stopping the run. Possibly this makes the two DT’s in that front even more critical as the DE’s outside them would’ve been OLB’s in a 3-4 and are now pushed inside a bit more and therefor likely to have to hold up against power running teams coming straight at them. 

This could be great news for Q, who in theory should see his full potential as an interior pass rusher unleashed. Sheldon Richardson would’ve been perfect in this system...so too probably Leo.

It’s no coincidence that in the 3-4 era post Herm we’ve always been one of the better teams at shutting down the run. The flip side is we’ve been average to poor at shutting down opposing QB’s largely because time and time again we’ve failed to prioritise getting the right talent on the edge, Rex thought he could scheme it out with exotic looks and blitzes and it had some success but that got found out eventually and if there was a single reason why we lost that AFCCG in Pittsburgh it was that we had no answer for Big Ben having all day back there to pick out a pass on a critical 3rd down and keep drives going.

I’d guess the fun part of all this could be that we might all get a bit of a shock when this draft rolls around because for the first time in what seems like forever, we are scouting for totally different players in the draft. We might be looking at those smaller, lighter guys to play OLB (think Cashman, Luvu or Bryce Huff on the current roster) ....guys who don’t necessarily get a ton of sacks but are essential to make this defense work. We could be in play for players like Zaven Collins(absolute stud btw) or Micah Parsons, Jamin Davis at Kentucky, Dylan Moses from Alabama or Jabril Cox too would fit the mould of players we are now looking for to play OLB...Equally look for guys like Patrick Jones or Reshad Weaver, maybe even Carlos Basham to fill out the DE positions. .

I’m not advocating we need to address this as a priority, I get that the offense has to be the main focus but not entirely at the expense of filling out the D with the talent it needs to function. The Jarrad Davis and Sheldon Rankins signings were the clearest indication of this changed emphasis and we might see more of it in a few weeks. 

To answer your questions it feels like free agency has addressed a lot of the adjustments we are going to have to make on personnel to run the 4-3 and perhaps somewhere an existing roster player who maybe was miscast in the 3-4 could emerge and blossom in the new defense, so keep an eye on Cashman (if he can ever stay healthy) Huff, Zuniga or even Kyle Phillips. In that case and considering the change in system we probably don’t need to draft an edge as a priority but we might well need to add a different type of ‘edge’ rusher, in so much as that position exists.

It’s supremely frustrating that we’ve been running a 3-4 for 15 years or so and in all that time every single GM failed to understand the absolute necessity it is to have high end uber-athletes rushing from the edge. Those guys are so unique, and so precious that they simply don’t hit free agency and must be drafted with a high pick, or at the very least a greater emphasis is put on acquiring them than say selecting DT’s in the first round every year!...the good new is we don’t have that problem anymore. The 3-4 is a brilliant system but only if you have the right kind of player at edge, and it takes a rare and very special talent to thrive there, there are only so many Von Millers, Chase Youngs, Bosa’s, or TJ Watt’s of the world.

Parcells showed you can have huge success with guys like Rick Lyle, Shane Burton and Anthony Pleasant....big lumps who barely register on the sack front but who do their jobs by stuffing the run and collapsing the pocket up the middle, sure it’s great to have a Kris Jenkins wreaking havoc from NT or a super athletic big man like Mo Wilk, Sheldon, Leo or Q who can get 7-10 sacks but really the emphasis shouldn’t have been on finding a line full of those guys(don’t even get me started on Coples as an OLB) but to have prioritised finding those special talents who can occupy the edge in a 3-4....invariably DE sized, so with the heft to anchor against an OT and protect the edge but with the twitch and athleticism to drop into coverage or beat an OT around the outside.

We’ve all lamented the failure to add a proper edge rusher for damn near 20 years, since we traded John Abraham it’s been an Achilles heel of every team since then and while I’d still argue it’s a major weakness, and if one of the top guys drops to 23 or 34 it should absolutely be a consideration, but the key is that change to a 4-3 and the new and very different type of player we will surely be looking at come April. It might mean a few draft day surprises but those type of players are theoretically easier to find.

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If the right player is there at 23, I could see us adding edge. But after that, the well Is empty.

This draft is deep at offensive positions. I’m expecting a mostly offensive draft. We can patch up the defense after the draft with FA on 1 year contracts. Corner might be the only defensive position group that is deep in this draft. 

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