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Morgan pick makes even less sense now... what a waste of a pick


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Just reflecting a bit and have to say that this pick was a huge gaff by JD.  I know many weren’t happy with this pick at the time, but to come back the next draft and have to pick another QB..  geesh.

Backup QB is an important position, particularly when the starting QB is 150 lbs and made of quinoa.

I wish there was more whining and crying around here about the amazing blunder Joe Douglas managed to execute with the 125th pick last year. I mean, that 125th pick, you're really expecting a perennia

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3 hours ago, rayzor said:

It was definitely a head scratcher back then.  Just looks worse now because he doesn't fit the system.

And how exactly do we know already that he doesn't fit the system?  Because he has a strong arm?  Good coaches adapt their system to their QB's.  And the Shanahan system has proven to be adaptable for a lot of different types of QB's.

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17 minutes ago, undertow said:

How is that post idiotic?  There were legions of posters saying just that to explain the pick.  "This is genius they can trade Morgan in two years for a 1st just like Jimmy G".  People just like to bury their idiotic opinions they had in the past. lol

I recall very very few posters indeed who were happy with that pick at the time or defended it. The most that could be mustered was the rumor that it was a swipe at Belichick, who supposedly wanted Morgan. The vast, vast majority of posters here were begging for a second WR selection. Straw man BS.

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1 hour ago, Snell41 said:

 


That’s because your point sucks. There’s no reason to sign any of the available backup QB’s. None of them move the needle, none of them equate to wins. Throw Morgan out there if Wilson goes down, period. He was drafted to do exactly that.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

We’ll see what the QB room looks like going into camp.  I can guarantee you it won’t be just Wilson and Morgan.  

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I'm not reading 5 pages of this to see if it's already been answered but how does anything recently change anyone's views of the Morgan pick?  He was picked to be a backup QB.  Changing starting QBs shouldn't change anyone's opinion, regardless of anyone's prior opinion of the pick.

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Just now, undertow said:

The pick made zero sense....Jets fans are also they only people on the planet who think passing on Claypool and getting Mims was genius. 

It's glossed over way too easily with all the fist-bumping each other over that trade down. 

I don't know about the zero sense. It would have made sense if he got on the field and looked good right away; it's more that he seems a bad pick or at best a very slow-developer than a stupid pick because of being a QB.

I was no fan of the Morgan pick - and though it's only been one season, it's never a good sign for him to never even be active for a game - but there's the bigger concern that he may have simply taken the lesser-problem matchup. All this talk about Pitts as a TE-sized player with WR1 speed, and how we should be taking or trading up/down to take him at #2 or #4 or whatever; that sounds like Claypool. 

Hopefully Mims is still the better player when the dust settles. If it was all about measurements then Stephen Hill would've been a superstar. 

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43 minutes ago, undertow said:

Jets fans are also the only people on the planet who think passing on Claypool trading down and getting Mims was genius.   

False.  Lots of Jets fans wanted Claypool.  But even having said that, yes, I think Mims > Claypool or about equal.  I liked him more entering the draft.  Mims was impressive when Flacco was under center.  A competent QB will get as much or more out of Mims as Roethlisberger got out of Claypool.

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5 hours ago, MysticalJet2 said:

you don't use a 4th on a player that may or may not play.  period.  4th rd pick should be for a player that becomes a starter or at the very least on the field as much as possible.  Especially when we have so many hoes to fill and backup QB was not one at the time

 

This may have already been pointed out, but about 1/3 of 4th round picks become consistent starters over the course of their career and usually of that third or so it's usually at non-premium positions.  

So no, that's really not what 4th rounders are usually drafted for.  Usually they are drafted for quality depth with a potential for more, but often just a role player at best.

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13 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And how exactly do we know already that he doesn't fit the system?  Because he has a strong arm?  Good coaches adapt their system to their QB's.  And the Shanahan system has proven to be adaptable for a lot of different types of QB's.

True, you never know until he gets coached but Shanahan's system generally prefers a quarterback that could move out of the pocket in play-action passes and naked bootlegs.  Morgan was generally considered a traditional pocket passer coming out.

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2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It's glossed over way too easily with all the fist-bumping each other over that trade down. 

I don't know about the zero sense. It would have made sense if he got on the field and looked good right away; it's more that he seems a bad pick or at best a very slow-developer than a stupid pick because of being a QB.

I was no fan of the Morgan pick - and though it's only been one season, it's never a good sign for him to never even be active for a game - but there's the bigger concern that he may have simply taken the lesser-problem matchup. All this talk about Pitts as a TE-sized player with WR1 speed, and how we should be taking or trading up/down to take him at #2 or #4 or whatever; that sounds like Claypool. 

Hopefully Mims is still the better player when the dust settles. If it was all about measurements then Stephen Hill would've been a superstar. 

I think Mims will be good but Claypool is a superstar already...the other thing people say is that JD had inside info that he would fall further so he traded back.  What's far more likely is he wasn't in love with him just like the rest of the league... he fell further and he decided to just take a chance....you don't trade out of a spot when a player falls to you that you love.

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8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

False.  Lots of Jets fans wanted Claypool.  But even having said that, yes, I think Mims > Claypool or about equal.  I liked him more entering the draft.  Mims was impressive when Flacco was under center.  A competent QB will get as much or more out of Mims as Roethlisberger got out of Claypool.

I dunno how anyone can watch the past season and think Claypool and Mims are equal.  I'm thinking not many people watched Steelers football I guess...not to mention the knock on Ben now is he doesn't throw the ball further then 5 yards.  I'm not saying Mims won't be good but Claypool is a top 5 WR talent.  Claypool did just get in a bar fight so maybe hes a knucklehead.

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1 minute ago, undertow said:

I think Mims will be good but Claypool is a superstar already...the other thing people say is that JD had inside info that he would fall further so he traded back.  What's far more likely is he wasn't in love with him just like the rest of the league... he fell further and he decided to just take a chance....you don't trade out of a spot when a player falls to you that you love.

Hard to say what Mims will be yet. He was handicapped by missing camp, then missing the first half of the season, then flip-flopping QBs right after that, and frankly having Darnold on the field outright & not taking advantage of what Mims brings, the OL sometimes not providing ample time to throw, and frankly the Jets being 4th-fewest in pass attempts anyway.

He might be good. He might be great. He might be neither. He might be better than Claypool in the end and he may not. Couldn't say yet; they weren't in similar situations as rookies. 

But for me it's more the knob-slobbering over JD ending up with Mims "anyway" as though it's a foregone conclusion he should've been the pick before the trade-down. 

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6 minutes ago, undertow said:

I dunno how anyone can watch the past season and think Claypool and Mims are equal.  I'm thinking not many people watched Steelers football I guess...not to mention the knock on Ben now is he doesn't throw the ball further then 5 yards.

Maybe that's just pre-draft bias talking, as I had Mims higher.  He didn't have any meaningful offseason and still looked impressive as a rookie.

But either way, as long as Mims is a quality WR2 or better it was worthwhile to move down for more picks.  We're still looking for Douglas to accumulate more picks even now when we have 22-23 picks over the next 2 drafts.  

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5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

False.  Lots of Jets fans wanted Claypool.  But even having said that, yes, I think Mims > Claypool or about equal.  I liked him more entering the draft.  Mims was impressive when Flacco was under center.  A competent QB will get as much or more out of Mims as Roethlisberger got out of Claypool.

lol  Mims stop he is not better than or equal  to claypool who had 9 tds and 850+ yards for the season with a gimpy ben and back ups and having to share the targets with a bunch of others. I would argue if you asked 1000 football fans right now if they want claypool or mims 998 of them would say claypool-figure the other two are you and maybe somebody in Mim's family

 

mims was not impressive at all last year-he had zero freaking touchdowns and berrios who played with the same qbs and same coaching staff had 3tds -he did not have one game with more then  5 catches-0 100  yard games and 0 tds

 

 

 

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It's gonna take a while to find out if it was a waste of a pick. I'm all for having a young back up for a long time. Hopefully we have the same system for a few years and he can really master that and if he ever needs to step in, it won't be a disaster. And hell maybe even look good enough to carry the team. 

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mims is basically stephen hill right now as far as actual production on the field but hill had some tds

if you want to have hope on mims great so be it-i hope he does well for us but his first year sucked for us-you are what your numbers say you are 

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33 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Oh well if a few fans say so this changes everything!

Doesn't really change anything.  The point is simply some fans were not happy about the pick then and not crazy about it now but what's done is done.  Let's hope Morgan develops into something.  At this point that is all we can ask. 

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2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Maybe that's just pre-draft bias talking, as I had Mims higher.  He didn't have any meaningful offseason and still looked impressive as a rookie.

But either way, as long as Mims is a quality WR2 or better it was worthwhile to move down for more picks.  We're still looking for Douglas to accumulate more picks even now when we have 22-23 picks over the next 2 drafts.  

I'm not trying to kill Mims I think he will be good I'm just confused how that trade down was a stroke of genius and used as a example of how smart JD is.  I'm less impressed by trading back and collecting late round picks then I am by identifying players and just taking them.  Once the Steelers took Claypool I knew we fvcked up.

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I Like JD and it seems like he does have a plan, but the Morgan pick was definitely a stumble.  When your team is full of holes, picking ANY player in the 4th round that you KNOW will not likely take one snap in an NFL for that upcoming season and potentially EVER is a stupid pick.  It was a stupid pick at the time and it looks like an even dumber pick now.  

 

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5 hours ago, MysticalJet2 said:

Just reflecting a bit and have to say that this pick was a huge gaff by JD.  I know many weren’t happy with this pick at the time, but to come back the next draft and have to pick another QB..  geesh.  We wasted a 4th round pick on a backup that may never see the field.

This pick alone has me second guessing JD ability to hit picks in the draft.  These are so precious (particularly in the top 4 rounds) - especially when rebuilding from the ground up without going bananas in free agency (a la New England).

Hope I’m wrong but some of you are way more confident in JD drafting than me.

1. I think you completely undervalue the importance of having a quality backup QB and finding a Quality Backup in the 4th rd is great Value.

2.   Now the comment in a later response about Morgan never seeing the field is interesting?  Does he never see the field because the next QB is very good and stays healthy or does he never see the field because he's not good enough.  I assume you insinuating the latter but if JD and Saleh are comfortable with Morgan being the backup at some point he will see the field and we can judge if he's a good backup or not.  Please remember where a Kirk Cousins was picked  to be a back up and in the same draft as RGIII was picked to be the #1, a #2 overall pick by the way. Who had the better career ?   Was Cousins a wasted pick. .

You're take on this is wrong when comes to Qb's.   If the jets draft Zach Wilson and even if Morgan isn't good enough to be a backup, it's smart to draft a QB in Rd's 4 or 5 every year till you have a Quality backup.  You not having confidence in JD in drafting should have nothing to do with this and more to do with how Bechton, Mims and Davis are performing over the next 2 years

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5 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

I Like JD and it seems like he does have a plan, but the Morgan pick was definitely a stumble.  When your team is full of holes, picking ANY player in the 4th round that you KNOW will not likely take one snap in an NFL for that upcoming season and potentially EVER is a stupid pick.  It was a stupid pick at the time and it looks like an even dumber pick now.  

 

And, again, @Jetsfan80 posted the only two meaningful players that were passed on, and they’re nothing special.

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28 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

False.  Lots of Jets fans wanted Claypool.  But even having said that, yes, I think Mims > Claypool or about equal.  I liked him more entering the draft.  Mims was impressive when Flacco was under center.  A competent QB will get as much or more out of Mims as Roethlisberger got out of Claypool.

The amount of people who seem to be down on Mims blows my mind, If you are willing to give Sam a pass for his 3 years, we certainly give Mims a pass, as he suffered through an injury plagued year, with virtually no training camp and the absentee coaching of Adam Gase, and the regressed play of Sam Darnold.   He still showed enough flashes of talent for me to have no issues at all with the pick.  I look at this upcoming season as his first REAL season, with real coach and offense that will look to get him involved early and often.    Claypool went to a great situation and I loved him as a player.  In fact I always go back to this video that I posted pre draft to help in the evaluation of both players.  There is no reason to think that Mims won't have a very good year in year two. 

 


When it is all said and done, Mims will be one of the best receivers from his class.  I have no doubt about that.  

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8 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

And, again, @Jetsfan80 posted the only two meaningful players that were passed on, and they’re nothing special.

That's all well and good, but drafting a player KNOWING he won't have ANY impact or play one single snap before the season even starts on a team that had the least talent in the league is a STUPID pick. The 4th round is still draft territory where you should be trying to find players that can contribute to the team THAT year. Project picks should be reserved for the 6th and 7th rounds, not the 4th.  

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6 hours ago, MysticalJet2 said:

you don't use a 4th on a player that may or may not play.  period.  4th rd pick should be for a player that becomes a starter or at the very least on the field as much as possible.  Especially when we have so many hoes to fill and backup QB was not one at the time

 

There's not a 4th round pick on this roster who was picked prior to 2018.

Let's not pretend this is some treasure trove that we screwed up.

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45 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Doesn't really change anything.  The point is simply some fans were not happy about the pick then and not crazy about it now but what's done is done.  Let's hope Morgan develops into something.  At this point that is all we can ask. 

BB since he had Brady as his starter has drafted around 8 QB's with a 2nd 3rd and  4th rd picks others were lower. I wonder how many Pat fans were crying about his wasted picks??

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8 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

That's all well and good, but drafting a player KNOWING he won't have ANY impact or play one single snap before the season even starts on a team that had the least talent in the league is a STUPID pick. The 4th round is still draft territory where you should be trying to find players that can contribute to the team THAT year. Project picks should be reserved for the 6th and 7th rounds, not the 4th.  

And guess what? Turns out there were only two players that contributed to their teams “THAT year” so the complaining is completely unwarranted.

You don’t judge a draft pick after one year, especially one like the one we just had, with limited OTAs, camp, and no pre-season.  Playing Morgan last year, at any point, would have been a disservice to him.  I’m glad that they didn’t.  If he becomes a long term backup, it was a great pick.  If he doesn’t?  Oh well, we didn’t miss out on anyone important.  4th round picks aren’t as special as you’re making them out to be.  Chris Ballard is one of the best GMs in the entire league.  Do you see Colts fans kicking and screaming at him for drafting Jacob Eason, a project QB, in the fourth???

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16 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

That's all well and good, but drafting a player KNOWING he won't have ANY impact or play one single snap before the season even starts on a team that had the least talent in the league is a STUPID pick. The 4th round is still draft territory where you should be trying to find players that can contribute to the team THAT year. Project picks should be reserved for the 6th and 7th rounds, not the 4th.  

Listen - I didn't love the pick at the time and I tend to agree with using the first 4 rounds for immediate impact guys. 

But given how Sam worked out in year 3, taking a developmental QB doesn't look like it was the dumbest thing in the world, in hindsight. 

And again - What is the big deal? What player did we miss out on who would have made a tangible difference? 

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6 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

lol he didn’t  even take a snap in preseason but you wana give him the backup role to a rookie...

I love this forum for its pure madness 

 

Couple questions....

On a scale of 1-10 how butthurt are you this week?

Do you now or ever have you owned a Sam Darnold jersey?

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Just now, Lurker89 said:

 

Couple questions....

On a scale of 1-10 how butthurt are you this week?

Do you now or ever have you owned a Sam Darnold jersey?

9

yes i did

wife had jamal, sister had Robbie

Out of alota jersey money recently 

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7 hours ago, MysticalJet2 said:

Just reflecting a bit and have to say that this pick was a huge gaff by JD.  I know many weren’t happy with this pick at the time, but to come back the next draft and have to pick another QB..  geesh.  We wasted a 4th round pick on a backup that may never see the field.

This pick alone has me second guessing JD ability to hit picks in the draft.  These are so precious (particularly in the top 4 rounds) - especially when rebuilding from the ground up without going bananas in free agency (a la New England).

Hope I’m wrong but some of you are way more confident in JD drafting than me.

You ... you were thinking they picked Morgan thinking he would develop into a starter? You didn't realize that he was always drafted as a long term backup who may never see the field?

That seems like a you problem, not a JD problem.

Also, minor point, but it's "gaffe". A gaff is a large fish hook

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6 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Listen - I didn't love the pick at the time and I tend to agree with using the first 4 rounds for immediate impact guys. 

And again - What is the big deal? What player did we miss out on who would have made a tangible difference? 

Gabriel Davis was taken 4 spots later--but that could be construed as 20-20 hindsight but a LOT of guys liked him.  He was on my list.  

I have no problem using a 4th rounder on a developmental player--I don't need an immediate impact player--but make it a position that may actually see the field some day at a postition of real need.  Like the Cameron Clarke pick a few picks later.  Grab a LBer or a Tackle or whatever.  Not a stiff inaccurate QB from a Division 3 school.  I don't think Morgan will ever see the field in the NFL.  

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40 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

That's all well and good, but drafting a player KNOWING he won't have ANY impact or play one single snap before the season even starts on a team that had the least talent in the league is a STUPID pick. The 4th round is still draft territory where you should be trying to find players that can contribute to the team THAT year. Project picks should be reserved for the 6th and 7th rounds, not the 4th.  

Not at QB.  Pick # 125 is fine for a project QB.  Rarely do you get anything later than that.  Dak Prescott and Kirk Cousin were 4th rounders.  The best recent 6th round QB's were Tyrod Taylor and Gardner Minshew.  There's a pretty big dropoff in quality there.  

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