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Morgan pick makes even less sense now... what a waste of a pick


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27 minutes ago, dcJet said:

If you pick a guy to be a backup and he doesn't make 2nd string, is that bust?

Thing is, here were starters available at WR and OG to draft at Morgan's position.  Draft starters first.

There were?   Maybe 1 at WR (Gabriel Davis).  I don't see any year 1 starting G's who were taken in rounds 4 or 5.  Kevin Dotson (# 135) only started 4 games for the Steelers.  Shane Lemieux (# 150) started 9 for the terrible Giants, but can you recall anyone clamoring to take him? 

You have to go down to Rd 6 (Michael Onwenu - NE) to find a full year starter.  And I don't think you can make the case that we made a mistake to take Morgan and pass on Onwenu when every other NFL GM passed on him for 5+ rounds.  At that point you're now talking about whether we should have taken Byrce Hall or Onwenu at 158.  

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Just reflecting a bit and have to say that this pick was a huge gaff by JD.  I know many weren’t happy with this pick at the time, but to come back the next draft and have to pick another QB..  geesh.

Backup QB is an important position, particularly when the starting QB is 150 lbs and made of quinoa.

I wish there was more whining and crying around here about the amazing blunder Joe Douglas managed to execute with the 125th pick last year. I mean, that 125th pick, you're really expecting a perennia

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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

There were?   Maybe 1 at WR (Gabriel Davis).  I don't see any year 1 starting G's who were available anywhere pick 125 on.  

Or package and trade up.  Why have any picks after 3rd rd if there is little value to them.

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8 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

I'm not calling him a "bust"--never did.  A bust is someone--in my view--that is taken high and miserably fails to meet expectations.

I called the pick a waste because I think you can find guys like him in rounds 6-7 or UDFA.  Hell, Mike White might be better than Morgan.  I just think that if you're looking for SOLELY a backup, look for a backup at a position that might actually see the field someday.  A guard lkke Clarke or a WR or a gunner or a developmental CB.  A position where there are multiple persons at the position.

There's only 1 QB--hopefully--on the team.  Didn't understand the pick.  

A mid-round pick who never makes the active roster once, despite being healthy the whole time, would be a bust to me. 

There's only 1 QB at a time, but that can change. If the Eagles' backup was Luke Falk or Trevor Siemian, there's no Super Bowl victory over New England. The issue is more that - certainly thus far - it doesn't look like they'd have any more of a SB victory if the QB2 was Morgan either.

I didn't care for the pick, especially because I thought it was to block NE as much as it was to draft a player for the Jets. I'd hate to think the reason was just because they didn't yet have a locked-in QB2.

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2 minutes ago, MysticalJet2 said:

Or package and trade up.  Why have any picks after 3rd rd if there is little value to them.

Because this was a roster that needed bodies.  Trading up would have made no sense.  There's no one player we could have traded up for in Rd 3 or 4 who would have moved the needle.  We needed to fill out this terrible roster with young, cheap talent.  

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2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Because this was a roster that needed bodies.  Trading up would have made no sense.  There's no one player we could have traded up for in Rd 3 or 4 who would have moved the needle.  We needed to fill out this terrible roster with young, cheap talent.  

I agree but backup development QB was not one of those needs IMO. And makes less sense now with getting rid of SD.

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1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

A mid-round pick who never makes the active roster once, despite being healthy the whole time, would be a bust to me. 

There's only 1 QB at a time, but that can change. If the Eagles' backup was Luke Falk or Trevor Siemian, there's no Super Bowl victory over New England. The issue is more that - certainly thus far - it doesn't look like they'd have any more of a SB victory if the QB2 was Morgan either.

I didn't care for the pick, especially because I thought it was to block NE as much as it was to draft a player for the Jets. I'd hate to think the reason was just because they didn't yet have a locked-in QB2.

Yeah but Nick Foles isn't Falk or Siemian--he's a legit backup QB and borderline starter. Falk and Siemian are like Morgan, decent college QB who's games do not translate to the NFL.  That's who I want as a backup--not a throw away pick on a big stiff inaccurate dude that played...at the highest level of competition in college... lol.  

I watched a TON of Falk at Wash St--he was outstanding until he somehow fell apart senior year.  David Fales, Davis Webb, Ryan Finley, Mason Rudolph, I watched a ton of really good to great college QBs whilst scouting Darnold.  Way too many late nights and all a waste.

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7 minutes ago, MysticalJet2 said:

I agree but backup development QB was not one of those needs IMO. And makes less sense now with getting rid of SD.

I disagree.  I think it was a need for sure.  A locked in QB2 is something we've needed since McCown was let go/retired.  Remember what happened when Darnold and then Siemian got hurt and we were stuck with Luke Falk?  

And the QB2 doesn't always have to be a veteran.  It's probably ideal when you're grooming a rookie QB.  But it also can be expensive to go that route.  

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6 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Yeah but Nick Foles isn't Falk or Siemian--he's a legit backup QB and borderline starter. Falk and Siemian are like Morgan, decent college QB who's games do not translate to the NFL.  That's who I want as a backup--not a throw away pick on a big stiff inaccurate dude that played...at the highest level of competition in college... lol.  

I watched a TON of Falk at Wash St--he was outstanding until he somehow fell apart senior year.  David Fales, Davis Webb, Ryan Finley, Mason Rudolph, I watched a ton of really good to great college QBs whilst scouting Darnold.  Way too many late nights and all a waste.

Obviously there's a vast wasteland of failed QB projects.  But that doesn't mean you stop trying to find one or don't ever look for one.  Because the upside if you find one is massive.  Only about 12 or so guys on the planet at any given time can play the QB position well at the pro level.  It's not a surprise that so many fail.  But that's what also makes young, cheap QB's valuable.  I'd rather take a shot there from time to time than constantly keep bringing in the Trevor Siemian's of the world, guys whose range of outcomes are small are boring and don't really help much.  

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57 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Then let that be the reason for complaining about it.  You can't support Zach Wilson out of the Mountain West and then simultaneously sh*t on the AAC.

Obviously there's a disparity in talent.  That doesn't mean Morgan was automatically a bad pick at 125.  Lots of teams take shots on mid-round QB's all the time.  Even ones with established QB1's.  Why is Morgan such a source of vitriol for Jets fans?  It makes absolutely no sense.  We didn't even have a true QB1 on this team last year and still don't at the moment.  And as @Sperm Edwards just pointed out above, the Jets hadn't even signed Flacco yet when Morgan was drafted. 

It makes perfect, logical sense to give a kid like that a shot if you think he has a fairly high ceiling.  If he shows anything at the pro level over the next 3 years, you could end up flipping him for a higher pick later on, given how few quality QB's there are in the league at any given time.

I mean, there were plenty of players I wanted over Morgan. Sneed, Dotson, Davis, Gandy-Golden, Biadasz, Nick Harris, Tyler Johnson, Weaver, Mooney, Anae, Onwenu, Wanogho, Willekes. But it wasn't a crazy pick

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1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Obviously there's a vast wasteland of failed QB projects.  But that doesn't mean you stop trying to find one or don't ever look for one.  Because the upside if you find one is massive.  Only about 12 or so guys on the planet at any given time can play the QB position well at the pro level.  It's not a surprise that so many fail.  But that's what also makes young, cheap QB's valuable.  I'd rather take a shot there from time to time than constantly keep bringing in the Trevor Siemian's of the world, guys whose range of outcomes are small are boring and don't really help much.  

I think you and I are closer to agreement than you think.  I have no problem with finding a cheap, developmental QB but since there is only 1 QB playing at a time--if you are going to take a flyer on a developmental player in round 4, make it at a position where multiple players can play that position.  Having and extra developmental CB or Guard or WR, to me, makes more sense than a QB.  The 4th round flyer QB--to me--is not better than a 6th or 7th round flyer QB.  Neither of them are likely to be any good and not sure blowing a 4th as opposed to a 7th is the best use of capital.  I'd rather we have 2 Cameron Clarke's than 1 Clarke and 1 Morgan and hope that one of those Guards/Tackles develops.  

I have only truly hated 2-3 draft picks--Hackenberg being numero uno--and I know he was looked at as possibly being the starter.

To me, Morgan is a worse version of Hackenberg so wether it's a 2nd or a 4th I would have prefered we grab Quarterback X in round 7 and used that 4th on any other position.

 

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5 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

That is completely and utterly false. It does not take 3 drafts to evaluate someone. 

ARE YOUSERIOUSLY GOING BACK to Idzik and Tenny???? Really???? They have ZEROOOO part of this team. This roster is mostly and completely JD. He has purged any talent MAC brought in.

JD's record in 2 seasons = 9 Wins and 23 Loses. 

You are what your record says you are. This biz is about winning not looking sexy on draft day or winning FA. 

Win football games = Successful. 

So, eight consecutive drafts where there are no picks on the team, and you expect a Madden-like recovery in one draft.  You then suggest 9 wins and 23 loses as if that means we should be on, what, our 3rd GM since JD?

Seriously dude....Either get some knowledge, or stop posting.  This is getting beyond stupid.

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Next thing you know the Jets trade out of the #2 slot. They don't draft a QB because JM is the starter going into the season. Morgan starts doing Capt Morgan commercials because he's lighting sh*t up. At which point people start bitching about wasting a pick on a punter in the 6th . 

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31 minutes ago, MysticalJet2 said:

Or package and trade up.  Why have any picks after 3rd rd if there is little value to them.

Tom Brady says hi.

I get it though.  Had we have taken Davis instead of James Morgan, who knows?  We might have gone 3-13.  Guess we'll never know.

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3 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

So, eight consecutive drafts where there are no picks on the team, and you expect a Madden-like recovery in one draft.  You then suggest 9 wins and 23 loses as if that means we should be on, what, our 3rd GM since JD?

Seriously dude....Either get some knowledge, or stop posting.  This is getting beyond stupid.

no picks???? Wana take that back

Jamal

Leo

Robbie

want me to continue or just concede you sound silly

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8 hours ago, MysticalJet2 said:

Just reflecting a bit and have to say that this pick was a huge gaff by JD.  I know many weren’t happy with this pick at the time, but to come back the next draft and have to pick another QB..  geesh.  We wasted a 4th round pick on a backup that may never see the field.

This pick alone has me second guessing JD ability to hit picks in the draft.  These are so precious (particularly in the top 4 rounds) - especially when rebuilding from the ground up without going bananas in free agency (a la New England).

Hope I’m wrong but some of you are way more confident in JD drafting than me.

Dude, it's a 4th rd pick that JD created that day.  If we're talking about a 4th rd pick being the problem we're doing ok imo.  

This is hilarious to me 

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3 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

no picks???? Wana take that back

Jamal

Leo

Robbie

want me to continue or just concede you sound silly

The idea you can fix a decade of malfeasance at the GM position in one offseason is absurd at best.

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So after the past 2 GMs have completely blown entire drafts for the previous decade , we are quibbling with one 4th round pick made by our current GM in his first NFL draft?  This board is exhausting.  Nobody is ever pleased or patient for any reasonable amount of time. Every player and GM and coach has to be perfect or its roll out the billboards and airplane signs time.

Yet players like Darnold get a three year pass because he "never had a chance."  It's no win around here.

How about we let the new GM and the CS and the about to be new players have some time to grow and build a perennial winning team?  This team is not turning around in a season and last season, as painful as it was, was necessary for the true and complete rebuild.  This is not baseball. You can't just outspend everyone on the way to a pennant like the Yankees have done for about 100 years.

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4 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

Dude, it's a 4th rd pick that JD created that day.  If we're talking about a 4th rd pick being the problem we're doing ok imo.  

This is hilarious to me 

every pick matters when your 2-14

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19 minutes ago, MysticalJet2 said:

Brady was a 1 in a million.  But he was also picked in rd 6.  For me 4th rd vs 6th rd pick is a big difference in value to the organization.

Yeah the most extreme examples like the best & most accomplished QB of all time aren't anything; exceptions don't disprove the rule if he's the only one. 

I'd have used other examples instead:

  • Prescott was a backup to Romo on the day he was drafted (they certainly had an easier trade-up from #4 than the Rams or Eagles). 
  • Cousins was taken in the same draft as RGIII (after giving up so much for him). 
  • Schaub to back up Vick.
  • Tennessee traded a 4th rounder on Tannehill to back up Mariota.
  • How many picks higher than Morgan's slot did NE use on Brady backups, from Kevin O'Connell to Mallett to Brissett to Garoppolo to Stidham?
  • A round after Morgan Buffalo also took a backup QB in Fromm. I sense there'd have still been criticism if we'd taken Morgan then, too.
  • Giants took Nassib to back up Eli who never missed a start. A couple years ago they drafted Barkley because they were still committed to Eli...and drafted Lauletta in round 4.
  • Green Bay took Brett Hundley within 20 picks of Morgan's slot. A few years before that they took Brian Brohm in round 2 when they were already confident in Rodgers.
  • I'm sure I could go on - I usually do - but didn't stop at 1-2 examples because then that gets interpreted as the only times this has happened.

Just saying it's not some far-fetched idea to use a mid-round pick on a backup QB. QBs get injured quite often, and it's not the norm to get advance notice with ample time before it happens. 

Like most, I'd have preferred a different position (WR in particular, if he'd taken one of the productive ones taken after him lol), but to me the bigger problem is Morgan didn't warrant getting onto the field, or even activated for one game. He couldn't even leapfrog White on the depth chart to earn a 3rd string slot.

Hopefully that changes this year & we aren't still pulling FAs off the street & others' practice squads to shove ahead of Morgan on the depth chart again. We'll see. 

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1 hour ago, Alka said:

Guilty until proven innocent.  Thankfully that's not the country I live in.

lol...a back up qb is only a mistake until your starter gets hurt an dyou need them. Being prepared and smart actions is thecountry you live in and now you have a smart team too.

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35 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Yeah but Nick Foles isn't Falk or Siemian--he's a legit backup QB and borderline starter. Falk and Siemian are like Morgan, decent college QB who's games do not translate to the NFL.  That's who I want as a backup--not a throw away pick on a big stiff inaccurate dude that played...at the highest level of competition in college... lol.  

I watched a TON of Falk at Wash St--he was outstanding until he somehow fell apart senior year.  David Fales, Davis Webb, Ryan Finley, Mason Rudolph, I watched a ton of really good to great college QBs whilst scouting Darnold.  Way too many late nights and all a waste.

And I watch next to zero college ball. These guys are supposed to, but in fairness even the best drafting teams get so many so wrong.

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1 minute ago, MysticalJet2 said:

every pick matters when your 2-14

So it's a year later. What do you want?  To fire JD?  What's the point?  If Morgan is the back up QB this season or next, it's not a bad pick.  If he's not, JD whiffed on the pick.   So now what?  Of all the things that led this team to 2-14 and in this rebuild, that pick is in the 100s on the list and for people to blame, JD is at the bottom of the list as well.   

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1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yeah the most extreme examples like the best & most accomplished QB of all time aren't anything; exceptions don't disprove the rule if he's the only one. 

I'd have used other examples instead:

  • Prescott was a backup to Romo on the day he was drafted (they certainly had an easier trade-up from #4 than the Rams or Eagles). 
  • Cousins was taken in the same draft as RGIII (after giving up so much for him). 
  • Schaub to back up Vick.
  • Tennessee traded a 4th rounder on Tannehill to back up Mariota.
  • How many picks higher than Morgan's slot did NE use on Brady backups, from Kevin O'Connell to Mallett to Brissett to Garoppolo to Stidham?
  • A round after Morgan Buffalo also took a backup QB in Fromm. I sense there'd have still been criticism if we'd taken Morgan then, too.
  • Giants took Nassib to back up Eli who never missed a start. A couple years ago they drafted Barkley because they were still committed to Eli...and drafted Lauletta in round 4.
  • Green Bay took Brett Hundley within 20 picks of Morgan's slot. A few years before that they took Brian Brohm in round 2 when they were already confident in Rodgers.
  • I'm sure I could go on - I usually do - but didn't stop at 1-2 examples because then that gets interpreted as the only times this has happened.

Just saying it's not some far-fetched idea to use a mid-round pick on a backup QB. QBs get injured quite often, and it's not the norm to get advance notice with ample time before it happens. 

Like most, I'd have preferred a different position (WR in particular, if he'd taken one of the productive ones taken after him lol), but to me the bigger problem is Morgan didn't warrant getting onto the field, or even activated for one game. He couldn't even leapfrog White on the depth chart to earn a 3rd string slot.

Hopefully that changes this year & we aren't still pulling FAs off the street & others' practice squads to shove ahead of Morgan on the depth chart again. We'll see. 

I think you are right, but like most other players we had, the coaching staff was uncapable of evaluating them let alone using them, but fingers crossed we dont need to see him next year during the season and we just see him in preseason!

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Can someone tell me who this @Skeptable d-bag is--I really don't care about upvotes, downvotes, hero votes, super-duper post of the day votes, etc., but I've just gotten about 12 notifications he's downvoted every one of my Morgan post.

Is he James Morgan's secret lover?

 

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Most of the people who are mad are mad because they were homers for certain players .... Namely Jamallpro (barf) and Sam.

JD Traded their boyfriends away and they are sad.

Quit ****riding and you won't be butthurt.

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11 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

So it's a year later. What do you want?  To fire JD?  What's the point?  If Morgan is the back up QB this season or next, it's not a bad pick.  If he's not, JD whiffed on the pick.   So now what?  Of all the things that led this team to 2-14 and in this rebuild, that pick is in the 100s on the list and for people to blame, JD is at the bottom of the list as well.   

Point is JD is trying to build through the draft and I'm not as confident as others that he can do this.  Not saying fire him at all... I like him and hope he turns everything around.  Again, reflecting on last years draft as we he'd into this years draft, this pick stood out to me as even more a head scratcher because of recent events imo. 

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2 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Can someone tell me who this @Skeptable d-bag is--I really don't care about upvotes, downvotes, hero votes, super-duper post of the day votes, etc., but I've just gotten about 12 notifications he's downvoted every one of my Morgan post.

Is he James Morgan's secret lover?

 

same with me... whatever.  This topic has a ton of downvotes too.... didn't know it would be such a disliked topic.

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4 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Can someone tell me who this @Skeptable d-bag is--I really don't care about upvotes, downvotes, hero votes, super-duper post of the day votes, etc., but I've just gotten about 12 notifications he's downvoted every one of my Morgan post.

Is he James Morgan's secret lover?

 

Yet you comment on it, because you don't care?  Haha... Get over it.

Your points are bad and mostly invalid hence the downvote.

Go cry on somebody else's shoulder, but I deserve no personal attacks because you can't handle a downvote.

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Just now, Lurker89 said:

I find downvotes to be quite uncouth as well. 

IMG_20200217_082254.thumb.jpg.270f83392c560241598f6ebea9df09a7.jpg

I don't care about a downvote.  Or an upvote.  Or any vote. I'm an adult.

I'm just curious why this d-bag has a bug up his ass about me.  

I didn't bang Morgan--if he's jealous he's seriously mistaken.  

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1 minute ago, Skeptable said:

Yet you comment on it, because you don't care?  Haha... Get over it.

Your points are bad and mostly invalid hence the downvote.

Go cry on somebody else's shoulder, but I deserve no personal attacks because you can't handle a downvote.

I was just wondering why you chose to hide behind a childish twitter/intsa/facebook/internet d-bag tool rather than engaging in adult discussion.

Millenials.  Too funny and butthurt.

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1 minute ago, Peace Frog said:

I was just wondering why you chose to hide behind a childish twitter/intsa/facebook/internet d-bag tool rather than engaging in adult discussion.

Millenials.  Too funny and butthurt.

nobody is hiding... I am upvoting comments that are good and downvoting pointless or bad ones... the actual point of the upvote downvote system.

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