Offensive Line

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

 

Thanks for the hot take, now I dont have to watch for an OL after day 1

If they do take a Rd 2-7 lineman, chances are that player won't be ready to play week 1. Like cam Clark 

[The Crusher]

5 minutes ago, bitonti said:

What's so ridiculous about it? 

The key phrase is instant day 1 help

Sewell and slater are top 10 prospects they are not going to be on the board at 23

The only other prospect that I can see starting day 1 is AVT. 

 

 

I took it as Sewell and Slater will be like Becton and be able to change the line before it has a chance to gel. Where other prospects can start and will start but won’t prove to be too effective until the line starts to be a cohesive unit. Like mid season or so. 

[slimjasi]

7 minutes ago, bitonti said:

The Jets are not interested in creed Humphrey they love McGovern for whatever reason. Wyatt Davis is not a fit for the zone. Trey Smith has blood clots and sucks he's going in like Rd 6.

Avt is probably a day 1 guard like a rich man's Matt feiler. Avt would start here just because the guards are terrible. Not because he's Quenton Nelson 

So yeah they could draft chili rachal part 2 but other than that this is the line 

For starters, I don't buy that you know who the Jets are interested in. I have heard they like McGovern, but nobody really knows what the Jets are going to do. I also don't see why Davis can't play in a zone blocking scheme. The biggest concerns with him are injury related. 

As a more general point, the idea that there are only two guys in this draft who could possibly start on day one for this wonderful offensive line we have is just nuts. You have no clue how many guys could potentially beat out someone line Alex Lewis in camp. 

[AFJF]

12 minutes ago, bitonti said:

If they do take a Rd 2-7 lineman, chances are that player won't be ready to play week 1. Like cam Clark 

Disagree.  Eichenberg, Leatherwood and possibly Cosmi could start right away.  Could even make a case for Little and Mayfield being ready after at some point during the season.

[bitonti]

3 hours ago, sec143dmf said:

So there are only two starting OL in this draft?  Man I wish I had the crystal ball you have to predict such a thing. Where do you come up with this?  What do you see that everyone else doesn’t?

I researched every single prospect for my job, and I have been writing weekly articles about the line since 2013. I just did a video podcast with panthers fans here's me talking about the line for an hour 

 

Believe it or not most instant offensive line starters come from high Rd 1

There are many guys that develop over time. That's why they don't go Rd 1

I see 5-7 instant impact prospects in this draft 

1 Sewell top 5

2 slater top 10

3 cosmi top 20

4 AVT top 32

5 Darrisaw top 32

6 Humphrey top 40

7 Jenkins top 40 

 

They aren't taking Sewell or slater. Cosmi is a pure left tackle very athletic but not an upgrade on Becton and no rt experience.

Avt is a instant starter at guard that's the only upgrade I realistically see and it's not a big one. He's a better athlete than feeney but he's not as technical or savvy 

Darrisaw is a Russell okung type that has attributes but literally does not care about anything but his check.

The jets have no interest in Humphrey, who's like a left handed mangold 

Tevin Jenkins is a very Jets type of player could start over Fant. Not an amazing athlete but aggressive. by paying Fant his roster bonus the Jets are projected to start Fant this year . 

to summarize, this class is not super deep beyond the top and once they get beyond the top 10-15, the chances of players contributing their rookie seasons go way down 

[QB1]

Just now, bitonti said:

I researched every single prospect for my job, and I have been writing weekly articles about the line since 2013. I just did a video podcast with panthers fans here's me talking about the line for an hour 

 

Believe it or not most instant offensive line starters come from high Rd 1

There are many guys that develop over time. That's why they don't go Rd 1

I see 5-7 instant impact prospects in this draft 

1 Sewell top 5

2 slater top 10

3 cosmi top 20

4 AVT top 32

5 Darrisaw top 32

6 Humphrey top 40

7 Jenkins top 40 

 

They aren't taking Sewell or slater. Cosmi is a pure left tackle very athletic but not an upgrade on Becton and no rt experience.

Avt is a instant starter at guard that's the only upgrade I realistically see and it's not a big one. He's a better athlete than feeney but he's not as technical or savvy 

Darrisaw is a Russell okung type that has attributes but literally does not care about anything but his check.

The jets have no interest in Humphrey, who's like a left handed mangold 

Tevin Jenkins is a very Jets type of player could start over Fant. Not an amazing athlete but aggressive. by paying Fant his roster bonus the Jets are projected to start Fant this year . 

to summarize, this class is not super deep beyond the top and once they get beyond the top 10-15, the chances of players contributing their rookie seasons go way down 

What about Dickerson?

[bitonti]

5 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Disagree.  Eichenberg, Leatherwood and possibly Cosmi could start right away.  Could even make a case for Little and Mayfield being ready after at some point during the season.

Leatherwood is a paper tiger all the attributes none of the fire. He doesnt finish his blocks. Eichenberg is only OK. Cosmi could start at left tackle, but the Jets have a left tackle  Mayfield is an unathletic guard who tested like garbage 

The Jets could start these guys in theory its not clear that any are upgrades week 1 over the existing crew 

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, QB1 said:

What about Dickerson?

Dickerson tore his acl in the sec title game. He's got all the mileage that one would expect out of rs senior at Alabama. He's been beat to sh*t. He's a center with rt measurable but the Jets are not the type of program to take a dude Rd 2 and let him rehab all year. And again the Jets seem to love McGovern more than everyone else 

JD is going to give Fant and McGovern his free agents a chance to succeed. There's a very narrow path to instant upgrade it requires AVT or some other draft pick to be better than feeney and gvr. Rookies will be better athletes than these guys but jd probably would rather let cam Clark push those guys 

[Jet Nut]

27 minutes ago, bitonti said:

If they do take a Rd 2-7 lineman, chances are that player won't be ready to play week 1. Like cam Clark 

Yeah, thats not necissarily true

[QB1]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

Dickerson tore his acl in the sec title game. He's got all the mileage that one would expect out of rs senior at Alabama. He's been beat to sh*t. He's a center with rt measurable but the Jets are not the type of program to take a dude Rd 2 and let him rehab all year. And again the Jets seem to love McGovern more than everyone else 

JD is going to give Fant and McGovern his free agents a chance to succeed. There's a very narrow path to instant upgrade it requires AVT or some other draft pick to be better than feeney and gvr. Rookies will be better athletes than these guys but jd probably would rather let cam Clark push those guys 

I mean hes a 22 year old center, beat to sh*t how? You don't think he has 8-10 years left in the tank? When healthy he looked dominant to my untrained eye. I know he tore his acl but they showed him doing cartwheels a couple of weeks ago and they say he will be ready week 1. If not for the injury, do you see him as a day 1 starter? I do

[bitonti]

59 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Yeah, thats not necissarily true

 

56 minutes ago, QB1 said:

I mean hes a 22 year old center, beat to sh*t how? You don't think he has 8-10 years left in the tank? When healthy he looked dominant to my untrained eye. I know he tore his acl but they showed him doing cartwheels a couple of weeks ago and they say he will be ready week 1. If not for the injury, do you see him as a day 1 starter? I do

ok let me unpack my previous statements a bit 

and put on the optimism cap for a minute 

Here's the path to instant OL upgrade: 

2- Wilson 

23 - AVT or Humphrey

34 - Tevin Jenkins or reach on someone like Spencer Brown  

Humphrey would be asked to move to LG and be the long term center. I like Humphrey quite a bit. 

AVT insta-starts at RG i see him having a meh-ish career, Tevin Jenkins is a bad dude who like contact insta-starts at LG and pushes RT

Spencer Brown develops behind George Fant at tackle

that's more like getting two new guards out of the draft ... it's just not how i would build it, which is why I'm biased against it 

I'm just way more down on Fant than the team is and don't see them upgrading at RT, so why bother

to take the camera lens out, the reason why none of this will happen is because Saleh is a defensive coach and it's still like half a defense 

 

 

 

[David Harris]

9 hours ago, clayton163v said:

I do not have my ourlads guide yet.  I expect it soon.  While many here study video, I rely on the opinions of the scouting service and what I have learned over the years.  I will write a deep post on the draft later. 

I am hopeful that we aim for a right tackle/guard with an early pick.  After that, I want the guard only or center only guys.  Taking one with our second 3d round pick would be early.  They are always there.  Compounding it is the need for them to fit the zone scheme.  I too want multiple lineman, I just think we need to be cautious and not overdraft guys.  Let's face it, we $uck.  We must hit on our picks.

Yeah as much as we need OL it’d be tough to pass up Farley or Phillips at 23.

[clayton163v]

6 hours ago, AFJF said:

McGovern and Lewis both make more than him and GVR is within 600K of what he makes.  The rookie(s) they bring in should be better than Feeney.

I'd imagine either Lewis or GVR will be shown the door after the draft and Feeney will be the guy who backs up at C and G.

I too expect that the training camp battles and who we draft - and when - will lead to final cuts as you describe.   Feeney has always started.  I would love it if rookies displace the veterans on the starting line. 

[clayton163v]

3 hours ago, YankeeJet22 said:

I believe that most of the problems at Oline was the result of Gase's scheme/play design not meshing with Oline coach Frank Pollack teaching methods.

Don't get me wrong, talent needs to be improved, but i believe moreso that there was a coaching issue. Too many free rushers. Too many unblocked, unaccounted for LBers/Safeties. 

I think this staff will be a much needed improvement. And i think JD knows this. 

It sure looked that way.   At times, we were totally out of it.  Some of the three and outs were just brutal.

I too hope that better coaching leads to better play on the line.  I also hope that the Zach Wilson tribe is right about his decisive passing.

[clayton163v]

2 hours ago, The Crusher said:

I took it as Sewell and Slater will be like Becton and be able to change the line before it has a chance to gel. Where other prospects can start and will start but won’t prove to be too effective until the line starts to be a cohesive unit. Like mid season or so. 

This is very true.  Shane Lemeiux did not start for the Giants until late in the season.  When he did, he gave them an instant jolt to the running game.  Damien Lewis started day 1 for the Seahawks and took his lumps early and often before settling down.  Offensive lineman take time to adjust to the power and speed of the NFL. 

[Philc1]

One good draft pick in 15 years doesn’t fix this hot mess of an offensive line

[The Crusher]

1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

One good draft pick in 15 years doesn’t fix this hot mess of an offensive line

That’s true Phil, 

[Copernicus]

Corey Levin, Titans? Jets just signed him. G/C. Any good ?

 

Corey Levin (born August 12, 1994) is an American football guard who is a free agent. He was drafted by the Tennessee Titans in 2017. He played college football at University of Tennessee-Chattanooga.

High school: Dacula (GA)

NFL Draft: 2017 / Round: 6 / Pick: 217‎

Position: Guard/ ‎Center

[Beerfish]

4 hours ago, bitonti said:

I researched every single prospect for my job, and I have been writing weekly articles about the line since 2013. I just did a video podcast with panthers fans here's me talking about the line for an hour 

 

Believe it or not most instant offensive line starters come from high Rd 1

There are many guys that develop over time. That's why they don't go Rd 1

I see 5-7 instant impact prospects in this draft 

1 Sewell top 5

2 slater top 10

3 cosmi top 20

4 AVT top 32

5 Darrisaw top 32

6 Humphrey top 40

7 Jenkins top 40 

 

They aren't taking Sewell or slater. Cosmi is a pure left tackle very athletic but not an upgrade on Becton and no rt experience.

Avt is a instant starter at guard that's the only upgrade I realistically see and it's not a big one. He's a better athlete than feeney but he's not as technical or savvy 

Darrisaw is a Russell okung type that has attributes but literally does not care about anything but his check.

The jets have no interest in Humphrey, who's like a left handed mangold 

Tevin Jenkins is a very Jets type of player could start over Fant. Not an amazing athlete but aggressive. by paying Fant his roster bonus the Jets are projected to start Fant this year . 

to summarize, this class is not super deep beyond the top and once they get beyond the top 10-15, the chances of players contributing their rookie seasons go way down 

So in other words the jets are monumentally stupid.

[bitonti]

44 minutes ago, Copernicus said:

Corey Levin, Titans? Jets just signed him. G/C. Any good ?

 

Corey Levin (born August 12, 1994) is an American football guard who is a free agent. He was drafted by the Tennessee Titans in 2017. He played college football at University of Tennessee-Chattanooga.

High school: Dacula (GA)

NFL Draft: 2017 / Round: 6 / Pick: 217‎

Position: Guard/ ‎Center

Corey Levin started 1 game at left guard in his his career he's competition for Feeney

they are probably going to cut Alex Lewis, right? 

it speaks more to how Saleh wants to build Tennessee part 2 players like Corey Davis and their pursuit of Jonnu Smith

that run even when you know it's coming opening up the play action deep type of offense 

 

32 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

So in other words the jets are monumentally stupid.

yes there is a pathway for them getting much better on the OL 

if they hit on all their picks and dedicate a huge draft to OL 

my prediction the value is going to line up at different positions and JD feels better about the line than we do  

[Sam_S]

9 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Yeah, thats not necissarily true

its as insane as making the statement Wyatt Davis, one of the most mobile blockers in this draft, is somehow not a zone blocking lineman.

[derp]

11 hours ago, bitonti said:

I researched every single prospect for my job, and I have been writing weekly articles about the line since 2013. I just did a video podcast with panthers fans here's me talking about the line for an hour 

 

Believe it or not most instant offensive line starters come from high Rd 1

There are many guys that develop over time. That's why they don't go Rd 1

I see 5-7 instant impact prospects in this draft 

1 Sewell top 5

2 slater top 10

3 cosmi top 20

4 AVT top 32

5 Darrisaw top 32

6 Humphrey top 40

7 Jenkins top 40 

 

They aren't taking Sewell or slater. Cosmi is a pure left tackle very athletic but not an upgrade on Becton and no rt experience.

Avt is a instant starter at guard that's the only upgrade I realistically see and it's not a big one. He's a better athlete than feeney but he's not as technical or savvy 

Darrisaw is a Russell okung type that has attributes but literally does not care about anything but his check.

The jets have no interest in Humphrey, who's like a left handed mangold 

Tevin Jenkins is a very Jets type of player could start over Fant. Not an amazing athlete but aggressive. by paying Fant his roster bonus the Jets are projected to start Fant this year . 

to summarize, this class is not super deep beyond the top and once they get beyond the top 10-15, the chances of players contributing their rookie seasons go way down 

I thought Cosmi started a season at right tackle? Pretty sure I saw double digit games started there. I know he said in interviews recently he’s comfortable at both spots and guard.

[Big_Slick]

19 hours ago, bitonti said:

If the Jets do not draft either Sewell or slater, they are not getting instant day 1 starter help for the line its just that simple 

As much as I wanted to roll with Sam and take Sewell at #2OA I don't think we can move up to grab Slater (Sewell will not make it past Cincy) without trading both #23 and #34 and that cost is too much.

JD has rolled the dice and now it's up to him to hit this draft out of the the park. If he fails to upgrade the OL, Wilson will not have much of a chance.

 

[LIJetsFan]

21 hours ago, bitonti said:

 

JD is going to give Fant and McGovern his free agents a chance to succeed. There's a very narrow path to instant upgrade it requires AVT or some other draft pick to be better than feeney and gvr. Rookies will be better athletes than these guys but jd probably would rather let cam Clark push those guys 

The bold comes as both a shock and a disillusionment   I really expected that  we'd be markedly upgrading our OL this draft.  I hope JD is better at this.    

[Philc1]

The Jets have built correctly twice the last 25 years both times we invested heavily in offensive line

[slats]

10 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

The Jets have built correctly twice the last 25 years both times we invested heavily in offensive line

Like using the 11th pick of the draft on an OT? If they use another first or high second on an IOL, would that help?

Because one thing the Jets have done very well over the years is overpay free agents who really don't want to play for the team but are willing to cash their checks. And it's never worked out a single time, unless you count the many offseason championships previous regimes have basked in. I'm glad the team isn't doing that any more. 

[Philc1]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

Like using the 11th pick of the draft on an OT? If they use another first or high second on an IOL, would that help?

Because one thing the Jets have done very well over the years is overpay free agents who really don't want to play for the team but are willing to cash their checks. And it's never worked out a single time, unless you count the many offseason championships previous regimes have basked in. I'm glad the team isn't doing that any more. 

Damien Woody and Kevin Mawae say hi.  No free agents like Thuney wanted to come here because the Jets are still a broken organization 

 

The right move was to stick with Sam and draft Sewell.  

[More Cowbell]

Ok, I kind of lost interest when you said Feeney was going to start. 

Btw, Gase also ran a zone blocking scheme. It was pretty much why the OL was so bad in his first year. We didn't  have the right personnel to run it. 

[slats]

42 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

The right move was to stick with Sam and draft Sewell.  

Lol, no it wasn't. Drafting Sewell was always a stupid idea. It was always a QB or trading back. Time to hope they're right about the QB. 

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, slats said:

Lol, no it wasn't. Drafting Sewell was always a stupid idea. It was always a QB or trading back. Time to hope they're right about the QB. 

Hope in one hand pee in the other see which fills up first 

[Jackie Treehorn]

22 hours ago, bitonti said:

 

ok let me unpack my previous statements a bit 

and put on the optimism cap for a minute 

Here's the path to instant OL upgrade: 

2- Wilson 

23 - AVT or Humphrey

34 - Tevin Jenkins or reach on someone like Spencer Brown  

Humphrey would be asked to move to LG and be the long term center. I like Humphrey quite a bit. 

AVT insta-starts at RG i see him having a meh-ish career, Tevin Jenkins is a bad dude who like contact insta-starts at LG and pushes RT

Spencer Brown develops behind George Fant at tackle

that's more like getting two new guards out of the draft ... it's just not how i would build it, which is why I'm biased against it 

I'm just way more down on Fant than the team is and don't see them upgrading at RT, so why bother

to take the camera lens out, the reason why none of this will happen is because Saleh is a defensive coach and it's still like half a defense 

 

 

 

With my limited knowledge of all this I have come to like Humphrey a lot. I read some analysis and I think he would fit right in. Would like that pick. 

[bitonti]

12 hours ago, derp said:

I thought Cosmi started a season at right tackle? Pretty sure I saw double digit games started there. I know he said in interviews recently he’s comfortable at both spots and guard.

Cosmi did start a half season freshman year at rt 

That being said to start finesse LT Cosmi at RT and start mauling RT (Becton) at LT is completely ass backwards. 

[derp]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Cosmi did start a half season freshman year at rt 

That being said to start finesse LT Cosmi at RT and start mauling RT (Becton) at LT is completely ass backwards. 

It's goofy but maybe less bad in a zone scheme that Cosmi fits well in, right? Captain too. Seems like a logical target aside from I can't really figure out his day one impact with Fant. I'd rather not move guys around but he's got short arms so maybe guard early and see what happens.

I'm kind of convincing myself they're going to pop Humphrey or Cosmi at 23. Plus athletes, plus character, fit the line need. Just kind of check all the Douglas boxes. Both kind of awkward fits with Fant and McGovern sticking around this year but I know position versatility is valued and presume they'll find some way to make it work. Pretty much everyone they'd take at 23 is an awkward fit.

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, slats said:

Lol, no it wasn't. Drafting Sewell was always a stupid idea. It was always a QB or trading back. Time to hope they're right about the QB. 

They’re not

[Philc1]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Cosmi did start a half season freshman year at rt 

That being said to start finesse LT Cosmi at RT and start mauling RT (Becton) at LT is completely ass backwards. 

When is the next time the Jets will have even a league average offensive line?  2 GMs from now?