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Are we really OK with going CB at #23?


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Breaking News: The Jets are in full rebuild mode with a new HC and QB. They are not going to be overly concerned with filling positional needs. It’s about adding talent. 

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You pick the best player available, if that turns out to be at a position of need GREAT and CB is a big position of need. We arguably have only one starting CB at the moment in Hall. If we go OL

I kind of cringe with all of the trendy projections of us going CB with our 2nd first rd pick. Flashbacks of Dee Millner, Kyle Wilson, and the infamous double safety draft are haunting me when I read

Ya. CB is the biggest need on this roster by a country mile. We at least have placeholders at OL, there is nothing of note at CB.

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2 hours ago, Pointdexter said:

I kind of cringe with all of the trendy projections of us going CB with our 2nd first rd pick. Flashbacks of Dee Millner, Kyle Wilson, and the infamous double safety draft are haunting me when I read it.

Are we really going to start fresh with our brand new franchise QB at #2 and then turnaround and draft defense (again) with our first round pick, which otherwise could be used to help him??

Aren't we making the same mistakes of the past, and it's probably time to break the cycle?

And is anyone excited about the 4th cb off the board? How impact could that possibly be?

Lastly, I am on the record that we need to go offense primarily in this draft to make the commitment to Zach (the one we never did for Sam and broke him), however if we do go defense early at least be smart and get a pass rusher.

Rant over. Lol

We also picked a decent CB in the 1st rd in the not too distant past named Revis

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We have a definite need at CB but I have no idea why we wouldn’t just sign one.

Go and sign Steven Nelson or Richard Sherman to hold the fort down - use the draft to protect Wilson and give him as many weapons as possible.

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5 minutes ago, BigRy56 said:

We have a definite need at CB but I have no idea why we wouldn’t just sign one.

Go and sign Steven Nelson or Richard Sherman to hold the fort down - use the draft to protect Wilson and give him as many weapons as possible.

A CB at either 23 or 34 should lead to immediate termination.

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12 minutes ago, Pointdexter said:

Breaking news: our offense has been pathetic for the last half decade in a league that is driven by great offenses.

Also breaking: we have ignored offense in the draft for a decade and spent all our prime resources on defense. And I'm sure you've seen where that's gotten us. Maybe just maybe we should break that trend.

 

Jets went offense on their first two picks last year and took five offensive players vs. three defenders overall (along with a punter). They're obviously going QB at #2 this year. Their biggest need after that is OL help, and I can't imagine it not being addressed before pick #34. I think they get it. 

 

18 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Sure would have been cool not going into the draft desperately needing a cb, a guard, OLB, and possibly a center.

I think the only "desperate need," is one of G/C, and you can find those guys all over the draft. A college OT who starts out on the Jets as a RG as a rookie to move to RT next season would seem like the type of versatile OL move that JD would be looking to make. I think the need at CB isn't being felt too strongly inside their building and that there are CBs still available in free agency (and will be after the draft). They hit the Edge twice in FA. LBs could be an issue with the transition to more 4-3, but it's not a position where they absolutely need to find a starter (like at QB and on the OL).  

 

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21 minutes ago, Cp561 said:

We also picked a decent CB in the 1st rd in the not too distant past named Revis

Yeah, and he held out multiple times, and despite all his glory we still generally sucked. Once we lost Nick and Brick the team went downhill quick. A #1 CB is overrated since the opposing team can just throw to the multiple others wrs on the field, but that doesn't stop that CB from thinking he should be paid like a QB.

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This is not a team that is ready to compete just yet. Frankly, I can live with another year of guys getting beat outside if it means we stock up an offensive line for the future that dominates. Deal with CB later. If the pass rush really is better than it has been, that should mask some of the deficiencies out there anyway.

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2 hours ago, Pointdexter said:

I kind of cringe with all of the trendy projections of us going CB with our 2nd first rd pick. Flashbacks of Dee Millner, Kyle Wilson, and the infamous double safety draft are haunting me when I read it.

Are we really going to start fresh with our brand new franchise QB at #2 and then turnaround and draft defense (again) with our first round pick, which otherwise could be used to help him??

Aren't we making the same mistakes of the past, and it's probably time to break the cycle?

And is anyone excited about the 4th cb off the board? How impact could that possibly be?

Lastly, I am on the record that we need to go offense primarily in this draft to make the commitment to Zach (the one we never did for Sam and broke him), however if we do go defense early at least be smart and get a pass rusher.

Rant over. Lol

I was actually thinking about starting a thread about Q and going D with the 23rd pick but I'll just write it here. 

Do you think selecting Q where we did was a mistake? Should the Jets have traded down for an OL or Josh Jacobs? Would we be better off?

The fact is we got what looks like a dominant DT who will anchor the DL for the next decade. That isn't  bad.

I would be all for taking a CB if he is a guy that we can put on the others teams best WR and make him look below average. We don't  have that and we need a lead CB. We have a bunch of other picks and this is supposed to be a deep OL draft.  I have seen mocks where Leatherwood is picked in the second round and he was someone that didn't  come out last year and was projected as a first rounder. Nothing wrong with take a DB if he is the right guy.

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Just now, Embrace the Suck said:

Yeah, and he held out multiple times, and despite all his glory we still generally sucked. Once we lost Nick and Brick the team went downhill quick. A #1 CB is overrated since the opposing team can just throw to the multiple others wrs on the field, but that doesn't stop that CB from thinking he should be paid like a QB.

Alright man, yes he did hold out but you can't diminish his contribution to a team that went to back to back AFC title games. Come on. We hadn't made it that far like 10 years before then and 10 years after.

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Just now, JetPotato said:

This is not a team that is ready to compete just yet. Frankly, I can live with another year of guys getting beat outside if it means we stock up an offensive line for the future that dominates. Deal with CB later. If the pass rush really is better than it has been, that should mask some of the deficiencies out there anyway.

Yup, and we don't need the new QB getting shell shocked his first year leading to him seeing ghosts on the field.

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1 minute ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I don't understand the logic of not drafting a CB at 23 because Kyle Wilson was a bust. I'm on the OL train for 23 and 34, but I am not crying if we draft a CB. 

This. I rather take an OL but this hysteria over who the Jets have drafted in the past and how it affects future draft picks is asinine. 

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30 minutes ago, Cp561 said:

We also picked a decent CB in the 1st rd in the not too distant past named Revis

This draft class was barely out of diapers when Revis was drafted. Not sure this is the compelling point you think it is.

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1 minute ago, Tranquilo said:

Alright man, yes he did hold out but you can't diminish his contribution to a team that went to back to back AFC title games. Come on. We hadn't made it that far like 10 years before then and 10 years after.

Yeah, and you'll notice once the talent on the Oline dropped so did the team's success regardless of the talent on D. How anyone can put  a ton of value on a CB today is beyond me with all the rule changes and wide open offenses that neutralize an investment in a guy like Revis. Revis was a shiny toy who was nice to have I guess, but not essential. Plenty of teams have had far more success without a star number one at CB. It's why opposing teams killed the Jets every game with the other scrub wr's you never heard of until they played the Jets, but Revis had individual success so there's always that for whatever it's worth.

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Just now, Embrace the Suck said:

Yeah, and you'll notice once the talent on the Oline dropped so did the team's success regardless of the talent on D. How anyone can put  a ton of value on a CB today is beyond me with all the rule changes and wide open offenses that neutralize an investment in a guy like Revis. Revis was a shiny toy who was nice to have I guess, but not essential. Plenty of teams have had far more success without a star number one at CB. It's why opposing teams killed the Jets every game with the other scrub wr's you never heard of until they played the Jets, but Revis had individual success so there's always that for whatever it's worth.

The team's defense hasn't been at the level it was with Revis either, it's not just the o-line.

CB is the 4th most important position on the field. Taking out an opposing number one receiver isn't a shiny toy. In case you missed it, it led to success in the playoffs. 

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1 hour ago, Obrien2Toon said:

No, no, no

honestly I equate the corner position with the rb position now a days

you can have prime revis and Deion and it doesn’t make a difference without a pass rush with today’s league rules

plus our history of going D in first round 14 of the last 16 years or whatever it is

and our recent history of ruining a top rated rookie QB by not building an offense around him

i want O with the first 4 picks, maybe I can stomach a pass rusher, but not a corner 

That is insane. CB is one of the most valuable position in the NFL atm specially because of the way the game is played atm.

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1 hour ago, Nick Blitz said:

By all accounts this a deep O line class, Im sure there will be guys available at #23 and in the 2nd and third who would be an upgrade over the less than stellar guys we have now. One of Dillon Radunz, Cosmi, Eichenburg and Tevan Jenkins will most likely be in play at #23 and possibly at the top of the 2nd and thats just the tackles.

This is why a defensive player is in play at #23 - because of the OL depth. I still prefer going OL and a skill player with our next two picks. Sign a vet corner that knows the system. You probably would rather not have a rookie and Hall as your starting corners.

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3 minutes ago, Gramsci said:

That is insane. CB is one of the most valuable position in the NFL atm specially because of the way the game is played atm.

Really? Name 10 starting CBs that you would trade a 1st round pick for. 

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No I’m not ok with it. Even though it is our 2nd or maybe biggest need (along with OL), our priority should be surrounding Wilson with talent on offense. This isn’t a playoff team anyway so Zachs progression is most important this upcoming season. Can take a corner or 2 high next year, 4 picks in the first 2 rounds. Take a CB this year with one of the 3rds

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Why wouldn't we draft a CB if it is the best player available at tha point considering that the OL class is pretty deep?

 

Bryce Hall and Bless Hall are not enough. 

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2 hours ago, adobolo2 said:

You pick the best player available, if that turns out to be at a position of need GREAT and CB is a big position of need. We arguably have only one starting CB at the moment in Hall.

If we go OL or edge at #23 that's fine pick a stud who is going to become an all pro and find corners who fit the zonal scheme later in the draft but as I said you pick the best player available to us at #23.

Nah I wouldn't go that far. Pure BAP is for later rounds, when it's hard enough to find someone who isn't just an outright bust in the first place, so don't get so picky about the position. Hunting for depth is cheap in FA. I'm big on doing the exact opposite of the Maccagnan way. Namely: draft need positions very early (so long as one's not foolishly reaching), yielding more towards BAP and away from pure need as the draft progresses.

In round 1? No, I wouldn't take any position that's already filled adequately by a younger starter, or at lower-impact positions. That's what this team did year after year with DE-DT hybrids, an ILB, a couple strong safeties... In the end we ended up having to play or outright convert two of these 285-305 pound men to LB, while trying to find edge rushers and corners and WRs and LTs purely with later picks and FAs. Much harder to succeed that way. If the guy you really want is 5 clicks lower of a prospect when it's our turn to pick, then trade down rather than having an extra or less-crucial starter at one position while maintaining a hole that was a much higher priority at an impact position. That hole gets much harder to fill with each passing round.

The rationale behind the Jets taking a CB over OL at 23 - if they don't trade up/down - is it's such a need position that usually gets drafted higher. This year there should be 5 picks ahead of 23 just going to QBs alone; and further the depth at the position in this draft class is deeper, making it a value position just in terms of where the player slipping just because of this year's numbers: a CB who might have otherwise gone inside the top 15 might slip to us at 23. 

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4 minutes ago, Gramsci said:

Well, look at the table I just posted. 

Look at what happens when we lose our QB because we wanted to draft a corner instead of another OL. 

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Generally speaking, it's just harder to hit on a very good to great corner later than round 1 vs. hitting on a very good to great guard. There's just a higher priority is placed on them in the draft, and it's not without reason.

Fill-in guards are easier for teams to find in FA, especially as they get into their 30s; in a game they're less likely to be exploited on an island like a corner; and honestly their careers at peak level just last much longer. A free agent guard is far more likely to see all 4-5 years of his veteran contract than a corner. 

CBs have shorter careers at the top of their game, so you need to get them while their young, and locking them up for the first 5 years of their careers - and as a bonus, at lower dollars - surely leads GMs to make this calculation.

There are plenty of guards (and OL in general) who are still outstanding performers well into their 30s; at corner, it's unusual to say the least. So guard prospects just drop more than equal-rating corner prospects, and it's easier to find a pro-bowl guard outside the top 20-ish picks than it is to find a comparably-accomplished guard. 

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15 minutes ago, QB1 said:

Look at what happens when we lose our QB because we wanted to draft a corner instead of another OL. 

It's amazing. It's like deja vu with the justifications for spending a premium draft resource on defense...again. 

Then, in a few years from now using their keen hindsight, it's the same posters blasting the pick saying we should have taken offense all along.

Rinse, repeat, never learning anything from it.

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If Rex was the coach and defacto GM, the Jets would be going CB at #2, #23, #34, #66, #87... etc. 

Some talk that Atlanta would be willing to trade out of the 4th overall spot.  

I have a feeling JD likes to stock-pile picks rather than trade them away to target players, but it would be interesting if JD took Wilson at #2 and then traded a few picks away to move up to #4 and take Sewell or Pitts or one of the top WR's

Perhaps trade one of the 1st round picks for next year and a 2nd too.  Something like that. 

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1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

We have no #1 CB and Fuller signed with Denver

He wanted to reunite with Vic Fangio. Your crystal ball didn't tell you that one? You're slacking.

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3 hours ago, BigRy56 said:

We have a definite need at CB but I have no idea why we wouldn’t just sign one.

Go and sign Steven Nelson or Richard Sherman to hold the fort down - use the draft to protect Wilson and give him as many weapons as possible.

Steven Nelson is a bit of a shocker that we haven't been tied to him at all.

He's a very good player - we have the money and we have the need.  One less defensive need to worry about in the draft.

Anyone know, is he a bad guy? Off the field issues? I haven't heard anything like that.

 

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