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Justin Fields 2nd Pro Day - April 14th


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Can we all admit that we have zero clue who will be better between Wilson and Fields? They’re both very talented but flawed prospects. I’ll be happy with either. The insane tribalism between the two c

He had two injuries in a 6 game season last year, playing behind an NFL OL taking hits from college kids 

If we have to go QB at2 now how are we not taking Fields?  Look I’ve been very critical of the guy and I still have those criticisms but he is a better prospect than Wilson

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15 minutes ago, Paradis said:

This is one of the dumbest posts I’ve read all year. Flat out wrong and stupid.

I can do it too, watch - Pitts is at his worst when the ball is in the air and he has to catch it. 

You don’t have to like him, but take this trash outside and leave it there. You don’t need to spew the same bullsh*t in every thread. Zero ppl are unclear on your thoughts on Fields. 

It is 100% true though and has been shown time and again.

You’d be better arguing the point though rather than just trying to slander the person making the point, which seems to be your go to play every time. You need to take this stuff less seriously.

On average he holds onto the ball longer than other QB prospects, he’s the only one of the big four to hold onto the ball longer when blitzed, which is an enormous red flag in itself. He also has the lowest QBR in 2020 when under pressure compared to Lawrence, Wilson or Fields, by quite a bit. He will get found out quickly in the NFL which is why he needs to sit.

You should really get less attached to your prospects though. You’re already swearing and risking another meltdown. It’s opinions on sports my man. Mine just happen to be backed up by reality as everything I listed above is a verfiable fact.

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5 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:


More of the “woke” crowd making stuff up in defense of Fields...Lol 

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers/justin-fields-did-insanely-well-aptitude-test-mark-sanchez-says

It’s insane. Civil discourse is nearly extinct here. 2 months ago ppl were starting threads about Fields>>Lawrence. it’s fcking toxic here, like look at this trash—

It’s just made up sh*t. Entirely out of thin air. 

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1 minute ago, Paradis said:

It’s insane. Civil discourse is nearly extinct here. 2 months ago ppl were starting threads about Fields>>Lawrence. it’s fcking toxic here, like look at this trash—

It’s just made up sh*t. Entirely out of thin air. 

Me thinks the lady doth hyperbole too much.

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2 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

It is 100% true though and has been shown time and again.

You’d be better arguing the point though rather than just trying to slander the person making the point, which seems to be your go to play every time. You need to take this stuff less seriously.

On average he holds onto the ball longer than other QB prospects, he’s the only one of the big four to hold onto the ball longer when blitzed, which is an enormous red flag in itself. He also has the lowest QBR in 2020 when under pressure compared to Lawrence, Wilson or Fields, by quite a bit. He will get found out quickly in the NFL which is why he needs to sit.

You should really get less attached to your prospects though. You’re already swearing and risking another meltdown. It’s opinions on sports my man. Mine just happen to be backed up by reality as everything I listed above is a verfiable fact.

No it’s not. You’re full of sh*t on this topic. And it’s really disappointing. You can 100000 words if you want. doesn’t matter. 

All of these QB prospects are flawed. I’m not attached to any of em.  
 

 

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2 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:


More of the “woke” crowd making stuff up in defense of Fields...Lol 

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers/justin-fields-did-insanely-well-aptitude-test-mark-sanchez-says

The first sentence of this article... 

 

Quote

Justin Fields has wrongly gone through the kind of pre-draft critique that too many Black quarterbacks have dealt with in the past. 

Now lets look at Daniel Jeremiah, Dane Brugler, Lance Zierlein's evaluations... 

Quote

 

Jeremiah (QB4): Overall, I think Fields has a chance to be special, but it's going to take some time for him to speed up his clock in the passing game.

Brugler (QB4): WEAKNESSES: Undeveloped field vision…locks onto his preferred read and doesn’t consistently find his second and third options (sometimes by design)…needs to be quicker eliminating things post-snap…stares down reads and doesn’t play with a consistent sense of urgency…needs to be better taking what the defense gives him instead of forcing throws…his passes lose life when attempting to throw off-balance…ball security needs work: holds the ball loose in the pocket and as a runner (12 fumbles over the last two seasons)…needs to do a better job of avoiding hits…benefited from an all-star cast around him (both players and play-calling).

Zierlien (QB4): 

  • Needs to improve pocket mobility for clean launch points.
  • Below-average feel for edge pressure, running himself into pressure points.
  • Field vision is average in face of the blitz.
  • Missed open blitz beaters in the middle of the field against Indiana.
  • Gradual operation time prevents expedited release.
  • Needs to release ball earlier on anticipatory throws.
  • Needs to improve eye manipulation as a pro.
  • Stagnant eyes invite coverage to the passing party.
  • Forces receivers to slow for deep throws.
  • Pet spin move as runner got him clocked against Clemson.

 

No one is saying Justin Fields isn't smart. No one is saying Justin Fields isn't capable. What people are saying is he hasn't played QB the way it's asked to be played by a vast majority of NFL teams, and that his primary issues which are apparent on tape (field vision, processing) are grim issues to have for a player who is preparing to play QB in the NFL. Ryan Fitzpatrick is the smartest QB in the league and he still doesn't know how to read or process the field. One thing has nothing to do with the other. The fact that this article is prefaced by mentioning the color of his skin is exactly what is so "woke" about it. 

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3 minutes ago, Paradis said:

It’s insane. Civil discourse is nearly extinct here. 2 months ago ppl were starting threads about Fields>>Lawrence. it’s fcking toxic here, like look at this trash—

It’s just made up sh*t. Entirely out of thin air. 

It is what is until draft day.   

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It's cool to see that people are passionate about their choice. We all understand the discourse is going to get ugly at times because of that.

Let me dive in and risk gettin' dirty;

  • I think a good comp for Fields, from a play-style standpoint is Josh Allen
  • I think a good comp for Wilson, from a play-style standpoint is Russel Wilson

Neither dude might ever reach that potential. That's drafting quarterbacks in the NFL for ya.

And all that being said? I do think it's fair to speculate on the reasoning behind some of the Fields criticism - is it a tactic to get him to fall in the draft? Does it have a racial component?

Who knows what's really going on, but it seems crazy to me that you have to be "all gas, no brake" on either completely disregarding the racial component or citing it as the principal reason for his tumble down draft boards. 

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4 minutes ago, football guy said:

Now lets look at Daniel Jeremiah, Dane Brugler, Lance Zierlein's evaluations... 

No one is saying Justin Fields isn't smart. No one is saying Justin Fields isn't capable

A few of our resident members would argue with you there. 

look Daniel Jeremiah also had D Kizer and Trubisky comfortably ahead of Watson and light years ahead of Mahomes. It doesn’t mean sh*t. Referencing the collective community has merit. Singling out an analyst or two holds little to no weight. 

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1 minute ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

It's cool to see that people are passionate about their choice. We all understand the discourse is going to get ugly at times because of that.

Let me dive in and risk gettin' dirty;

  • I think a good comp for Fields, from a play-style standpoint is Josh Allen
  • I think a good comp for Wilson, from a play-style standpoint is Russel Wilson

Neither dude might ever reach that potential. That's drafting quarterbacks in the NFL for ya.

And all that being said? I do think it's fair to speculate on the reasoning behind some of the Fields criticism - is it a tactic to get him to fall in the draft? Does it have a racial component?

Who knows what's really going on, but it seems crazy to me that you have to be "all gas, no brake" on either completely disregarding the racial component or citing it as the principal reason for his tumble down draft boards. 

Totally agree. I don't think Fields is as good as Josh Allen was... Allen's arm is like truly special and Allen did play in more of a pro-style offense at Wyoming... but I do see them being similar style prospects, just as I saw Josh Allen as being akin to Cam Newton. Early in the process I threw that comp out there and people literally took it as an insult. Now Greg Cosell says it and people just choose to ignore it. Fields absolutely has that kind of rare raw athletic skill and should go to a team that can sit him down and take their time with him, mold him into their offense. I wouldn't bat an eye if the 49ers took him knowing they have a healthy environment to develop the guy, but I also understand if they don't want that style of player either... for all we know, maybe Kyle doesn't want to have to cater to the player... maybe he wants someone who already speaks "the same language" and simply wants to expand the guys knowledge, hence Lance/Jones. 

As far as Wilson, absolutely see the Russell Wilson/Kyler Murray/Pat Mahomes/Aaron Rodgers-like elements in his game. Those too can be used as criticisms for him. Sure, some of these guys turned out good, but they were catered to. Will the Jets be able to cater to Wilson the way SEA did with their running game and defense? Will they cater the offensive scheme the way Arizona has with Murray? Can they afford to sit and teach Wilson to coach up Wilson the way KC/GB did for Mahomes/Rodgers? 

 

I truly don't understand the reason people have to be so divisive about this, and I get that I play into it by being critical of the "woke" narrative that has been pushed in the media, but I'm just fed up with it

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On 4/8/2021 at 12:31 PM, playtowinthegame said:

Did you watch the video? They're saying everyone is overthinking this by mocking Justin Fields down to the 5th quarterback off the board. Mark my words, he's gonna be the best quarterback from this class. He's like a Cam Newton and Russell Wilson hybrid. We know the kid can take a hit. He's built for the NFL. 

This wouldn’t surprise me at all truthfully 

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12 minutes ago, PS17 said:

Can we all admit that we have zero clue who will be better between Wilson and Fields? They’re both very talented but flawed prospects. I’ll be happy with either. The insane tribalism between the two camps has become a bit much. 

I couldn’t agree more.George Costanza Good Job GIF

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13 minutes ago, PS17 said:

Can we all admit that we have zero clue who will be better between Wilson and Fields? They’re both very talented but flawed prospects. I’ll be happy with either. The insane tribalism between the two camps has become a bit much. 

It's one thing to say "I don't know who will be better because I don't know where they'll end up", but let's stop acting like Fields is a better prospect. He's not. I'm a big "Process > Results" guy. Maybe he goes to the Patriots and performs at a higher level/has a better career, but that's not to say he'd have the same production if the Jets drafted him. 

I'm extremely confident that if the Jets drafted Fields, he would bust. Epically. We do not run an offense that fits his style day 1, nor do we have the luxury of sitting him and allowing him to be taught the position and QB responsibilities appropriately... it would be a disaster. I'm also extremely confident that he would be a good player in New England. He'd be an elite player in Baltimore. I don't think that's tribalism, rather, its a rational, logical evaluation

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14 minutes ago, football guy said:

Totally agree. I don't think Fields is as good as Josh Allen was... Allen's arm is like truly special and Allen did play in more of a pro-style offense at Wyoming... but I do see them being similar style prospects, just as I saw Josh Allen as being akin to Cam Newton. Early in the process I threw that comp out there and people literally took it as an insult. Now Greg Cosell says it and people just choose to ignore it. Fields absolutely has that kind of rare raw athletic skill and should go to a team that can sit him down and take their time with him, mold him into their offense. I wouldn't bat an eye if the 49ers took him knowing they have a healthy environment to develop the guy, but I also understand if they don't want that style of player either... for all we know, maybe Kyle doesn't want to have to cater to the player... maybe he wants someone who already speaks "the same language" and simply wants to expand the guys knowledge, hence Lance/Jones. 

As far as Wilson, absolutely see the Russell Wilson/Kyler Murray/Pat Mahomes/Aaron Rodgers-like elements in his game. Those too can be used as criticisms for him. Sure, some of these guys turned out good, but they were catered to. Will the Jets be able to cater to Wilson the way SEA did with their running game and defense? Will they cater the offensive scheme the way Arizona has with Murray? Can they afford to sit and teach Wilson to coach up Wilson the way KC/GB did for Mahomes/Rodgers? 

 

I truly don't understand the reason people have to be so divisive about this, and I get that I play into it by being critical of the "woke" narrative that has been pushed in the media, but I'm just fed up with it

On the comps, we generally agree. Although I think right now, I'd say Fields has greater leadership potential than Allen did as a prospect, and clearly has a proven track record against top competition - so I'd say he's a safer bet than Allen was in his draft, but I agree Allen has an absolute cannon. Both are ridiculous athletes with enormous potential.

As for the 'woke narrative' stuff, I mean, the 'work ethic' criticism was definitely a 'wtf?' moment for me. That just doesn't seem accurate and I think it's fair for someone to question whether or not there was a racial component to that rumor/perception. Mac Jones has a dad bod and a DUI and nobody questions his discipline or character. Stuff like that gives me pause. But it doesn't mean it's necessarily racially motivated either. These things are complicated and attributing motives to people are dangerous. 

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20 minutes ago, PS17 said:

Can we all admit that we have zero clue who will be better between Wilson and Fields? They’re both very talented but flawed prospects. I’ll be happy with either. The insane tribalism between the two camps has become a bit much. 

This is why I haven’t bothered debating because none of us know. Only time will tell. 

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Can we all admit that we have zero clue who will be better between Wilson and Fields? They’re both very talented but flawed prospects. I’ll be happy with either. The insane tribalism between the two camps has become a bit much. 

I agree. Right now I prefer Wilson but I’m not trashing on Fields! Because you know what? In 17 days, Fields may just be my QB and I will love him!


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19 minutes ago, Paradis said:

A few of our resident members would argue with you there. 

look Daniel Jeremiah also had D Kizer and Trubisky comfortably ahead of Watson and light years ahead of Mahomes. It doesn’t mean sh*t. Referencing the collective community has merit. Singling out an analyst or two holds little to no weight. 

I can't worry about a few posters who abandon logic. All I can worry about is me, and I know I'm not suggesting he's dumb. It's very possible he's the smartest kid in the class for all I know, and I've said countless times that the issues with him as a prospect has a lot more to do with where he played/their lack of QB development rather than himself. 

Again, process over results. Daniel Jeremiah isn't always going to be correct, and that doesn't mean he's a poor evaluator. Rather, he's being asked to evaluate someone not knowing what he's capable of doing...

On-the-field I really love the player Watson has become. He is right now what I see Zach Wilson developing into. But no one came to the conclusion Watson would become as good as he has due to what they saw on tape or his ability to process the game on the collegian level, rather, they fell in love with him because of the championships and the production. That's such a flawed way of evaluating a prospect. Best comparison I can make to that is when someone takes a horrible 3-point shot in NBA2K and it somehow goes in anyway (forgive me as I don't play many video games but I did play this in college a lot lol), yet they gave you negative player-development marks for it. Why? Because the process that led to the shot was flawed, even if it ended up going in. People who now parade Watson only loved him because of what he did on the field... the result... rather than actually dissecting and projecting his game into an NFL offense. 

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1 hour ago, Paradis said:

This is one of the dumbest posts I’ve read all year. Flat out wrong and stupid.

I can do it too, watch - Pitts is at his worst when the ball is in the air and he has to catch it. 

You don’t have to like him, but take this trash outside and leave it there. You don’t need to spew the same bullsh*t in every thread. Zero ppl are unclear on your thoughts on Fields. 

dude relax

@2:25

 

@ 3 mins 

 

 

I like Fields, I was one of his biggest hype men on this board. But the more I watch the more I see tendencies of bad decision making. He is a little stiff and robotic, and just doesn't play the position naturally. It has nothing to do with being smart or dumb, its about instincts. This short distance accuracy is unfathomably bad, its like his delivery gets even longer the shorter the throw gets, he aims it, remind me of markelle fultz shooting a basketball...  combined with the poor decision making under pressure I get flash backs of Sanchez and Geno. That being said, he is one of the best intermediate to long passers I have ever seen, and his running ability is Elite, you can build an awesome offense based on play action and deeps shots with fields. 

 

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8 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

On the comps, we generally agree. Although I think right now, I'd say Fields has greater leadership potential than Allen did as a prospect, and clearly has a proven track record against top competition - so I'd say he's a safer bet than Allen was in his draft, but I agree Allen has an absolute cannon. Both are ridiculous athletes with enormous potential.

As for the 'woke narrative' stuff, I mean, the 'work ethic' criticism was definitely a 'wtf?' moment for me. That just doesn't seem accurate and I think it's fair for someone to question whether or not there was a racial component to that rumor/perception. Mac Jones has a dad bod and a DUI and nobody questions his discipline or character. Stuff like that gives me pause. But it doesn't mean it's necessarily racially motivated either. These things are complicated and attributing motives to people are dangerous. 

But consider the source. Dan Orlovsky is a pretty proud liberal and there's nothing wrong with that. I think he shouldn't have said anything if he didn't trust the source, but he did try to make it clear that this is what some talent evaluators told him, rather than his own perspective. 

As far as Mac Jones, I do wonder why he's not hammered for this more. I don't think it has to do with the color of his skin, rather, he was out-of-sight, out-of-mind as a RS-Freshman 3rd string QB. Dak Prescott had a public incident, tons of people went to bat for him and his character. Like everyone. When Manziel did, very few defended him and for right reason. The Browns were moronic for taking him in round 1 and learned that the hard way. So for Mac, I think people believe he's more like Dak in the sense that he does have great leadership/work ethic qualities, but he made a mistake. Despite that , I think that him getting drafted high is a mistake as well, just like I thought Teddy Bridgewater or Christian Ponder getting drafted in round 1 would be mistakes... these guys don't have special traits, and I'm not a fan of players getting drafted in the 1st who don't have special traits... Kirk Cousins went in the 4th round for a reason... instead of wasting such an elite level compensation on a guy just because you like his ability to be a field general, why not teach an uber-talented guy like Trey Lance to be one? Just my personal opinion. 

But going back to Dak, the reason why he fell in the draft was due to the same theme being regurgitated here about Fields: people did not know how he would transition to an NFL-style offense because he wasn't asked to do many things that an NFL-style offense requires out of the QB. The Dak Prescott-Justin Fields comparisons didn't come out of thin air; Fields is much more athletic and attacks downfield more often, but when people try to compare the 2 its because they're basically saying "see, Dak was able to adjust to the NFL, so Fields will too." Fields is closer to Paxton Lynch as a prospect (minus the character flaws) than he was Dak Prescott. Will he maximize his talent the way Prescott did? Who knows. There's no evidence to support it, and that's just fact. At this point, you're taking a risk on the qualities you mentioned and the talent, hoping that he develops with seasoning, but it's not like he's displayed an ability to read/process the field consistently at all, whereas it clearly appears naturally with a prospect like Zach Wilson. 

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32 minutes ago, PS17 said:

Can we all admit that we have zero clue who will be better between Wilson and Fields? They’re both very talented but flawed prospects. I’ll be happy with either. The insane tribalism between the two camps has become a bit much. 

I think it's less complicated that than. Most people are consigned to Wilson as the likely pick, but appreciating there's always an element of "you never know..." The problem is you've got a handful of outspoken members here who derail threads with their "absolute" takes... It's called antagonizing. 

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Just now, Paradis said:

I think it's less complicated that than. Most people are consigned to Wilson as the likely pick, but appreciating there's always an element of "you never know..." The problem is you've got a handful of outspoken members here who derail threads with their "absolute" takes... It's called antagonizing. 

Two separate things. Preferring Fields as a prospect vs. there being any chance that the Jets select him. 

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All I have to say is if you’re using this kid from BYU in the same sentence as Mahomes, Rodgers, and R Wilson you should get your head examined, and never be taken seriously as someone who evaluates QB’s even here in the make believe world that is Jetsnation.

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Just now, Lupz27 said:

All I have to say is if you’re using this kid from BYU in the same sentence as Mahomes, Rodgers, and R Wilson you should get your head examined, and never be taken seriously as someone who evaluates QB’s even here in the make believe world that is Jetsnation.

All I have to say is if you make inflammatory statements like this without a shred of an argument you can't be taken seriously. 

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8 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I think it's less complicated that than. Most people are consigned to Wilson as the likely pick, but appreciating there's always an element of "you never know..." The problem is you've got a handful of outspoken members here who derail threads with their "absolute" takes... It's called antagonizing. 

JD has essentially confirmed Wilson himself with both his answers to Breer and the response he gave to the question about Steve Young. Throw in all the other elements and reports and it is like 99.99% the Jets take Wilson. There really is not an element of "you never know". By JDs own words there are 2 QBs they would draft and since they already traded Sam they are not trading down even to 2. I mean you can hold out hope but us taking Wilson is the same level of lock that Lawrence is. The interesting thing is the SF Pick at 3. Do they pick Jones as many think or do they select Fields or Lance. Personally I think Fields and Lance need an all-in build the offense around the QB type of approach. Daddy Shanhan did that for RG3 but I think the younger Shanahan has less flexibiliy. Will be surprised if it is not Jones.

 

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1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

Agreed.   I don’t even “love” Fields to be honest, I’ve just grown tired of hearing some of the stuff thrown his way when it’s completely unfounded.  The same with all the “love” for Wilson, that hype train got up and rolling quickly and hasn’t slowed down, and it’s apparently hit quite a few people in its journey so far.  There’s stuff to like, but also lots to be concerned about.  
 

I’m FAR less concerned with who the QB pick will be than I am about how the rest of the roster will be filled out.  Ultimately the success of whoever is drafted will be determined by many other factors.  

This. 

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12 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

All I have to say is if you’re using this kid from BYU in the same sentence as Mahomes, Rodgers, and R Wilson you should get your head examined, and never be taken seriously as someone who evaluates QB’s even here in the make believe world that is Jetsnation.

Depends on context, no? It is reasonable to state that Wilson is as good of a prospect as Rodgers and Mahomes. It is idiotic at this point to suggest he is as good of a QB as them. Funny thing is that on arm talent, Wilson is a generational type talent, yet people put that title on Lawrence.

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21 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

All I have to say is if you’re using this kid from BYU in the same sentence as Mahomes, Rodgers, and R Wilson you should get your head examined, and never be taken seriously as someone who evaluates QB’s even here in the make believe world that is Jetsnation.

So 99% of reputable talent evaluators should get their heads examined, but the 1% (presumably you and a few others) do not fall in that boat? 

Meanwhile they said I had the god-complex... lol makes so much sense

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The SF regime was all happy and smiles before the Bama pro day and then they watched jones 1st pass hit the roof and their expressions changed.

I feel Frisco had thought it was mac jones but now they are second guessing their mccaganan like trade up to get....one of the QBs, not sure which one.

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1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

The SF regime was all happy and smiles before the Bama pro day and then they watched jones 1st pass hit the roof and their expressions changed.

I feel Frisco had thought it wa mac jones but now they are second guessing their mccaganan like trade up to get....one of the QBs, not sure which one.

It makes no sense for them to draft Mac Jones imo. You have a starter in place who you say you really love and don't intend to trade. He's under contract for 2 years. You have a bunch of really good QB teachers in the building. It does not make sense to me that despite all that, they would take the guy whose less physically gifted yet potentially more "pro-ready" just because Kyle looks at him the way he looks at Kirk Cousins, but that certainly seems to be the case. 

If rumors hold true, the FO believes what most of us believe and want Kyle to take Lance (don't let titles fool you, KS is in charge and MS has huge influence in that organization). I think they've had to at least hear the criticisms, and Kyle is keeping an open mind about the process. That said, it sure does sound like Kyle green-lit the trade up basically saying "I'm comfortable taking Mac Jones at #3 if these other 2 guys don't blow me away" 

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39 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The SF regime was all happy and smiles before the Bama pro day and then they watched jones 1st pass hit the roof and their expressions changed.

I feel Frisco had thought it was mac jones but now they are second guessing their mccaganan like trade up to get....one of the QBs, not sure which one.

Speaking of expressions -in the beginning of the Fields pro day they panned a few times to JD I guess hoping he was all smiles like at the Wilson pro day, probably trying to drum up a Wilson/Fields narrative but JD looked like he was pissed or not happy with the Pro Day so they stopped.

My prediction - if SF takes Jones either Lance or Fields winds up in NE

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