Justin Fields 2nd Pro Day - April 14th

[Mogglez]

3 minutes ago, GreenReaper said:

Colin Cowherd supposedly shows a newly released 2021Jets team poster that if legit...speaks for itself. around the 9:30 mark...

Download video

 

I’m pretty sure that’s supposed to be a joke.  I don’t think the Jets are putting out a team poster with the slogan “We’re not pathetic”.

[football guy]

1 minute ago, legler82 said:

I’m not in the business of making excuses for guys getting paid millions to do their jobs.  If there is no projecting involved, then there’s no need for scouting. Just draft what you see. 

Ok then practice what you preach. Go watch the tape and try to say that Justin Fields is better at playing QB than Zach Wilson. It's not very close. Wilson does everything better than Fields. Everything. The only arguments anyone can chalk up against him is size/frame and level of competition. Otherwise, virtually every evaluation category Wilson is superior. 

[JohnnyLV]

54 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Zach Wilson is going to end up being a prime example of sports media group think gone wrong

Problem with that statement is outside of some prominent names, most sports media still have Fields over Wilson. It is actually the NFL teams that are pushing up Wilson

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, GreenReaper said:

Pre-snap and post-snap reads...there's a graveyard of talented QBs that couldn't grasp it.  And poor coaching is definitely a part of that.  Its what allowed QBs with very little mobility like Peyton Mannng and Tom Brady to be so good.  They were excellent at it.  As well as with their mechanics and acurracy.

For what I understand...Wilson drowns himself in film study.  He's described as a fanatic when it comes to this.  This I believe is a big part of how he's honed field awareness and allowed his instincts to work in his favor.  That field awareness...plus the BYU offense...makes him a very good fit for a Shanahan disciple's offense like LaFleur's.  

My concern with Wilson is too much hero ball.  He has to learn what tight windows he can throw into and which ones he shouldn't at the NFL level.  Sometimes he goes for the deep downfield throes into tight coverage.  And passes up those Shanahan designed short-intermediate ones...that receivers can catch and run with it.   Coaching, film study and experience will hopefully allow him eventually to make the quick good decisions he needs to make. in order to be a successful top 10 FQB.  

Good post!

 

   

I heard an interview with the BYU head coach and he said Zach will call like at midnight to ask about film or formations and just want to talk Football..

Anyone that is down on Zach needs to search out his game day breakdowns and the interviews leading up to the draft.  He is super knowledgeable and technical about football. I am not sure in all of Sam's time here I ever really heard him break down a play or describe a football play in an in depth way

 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, legler82 said:

Trubisky was #1 & 2 on everyone’s board too.

Except he wasnt'.  Lot of people were leery of his limited success and playing time at NC.

There were more than enough who favored Watson over Trubisky.

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

heard an interview with the BYU head coach and he said Zach will call like at midnight to ask about film or formations and just want to talk Football..

 

1 hour ago, football guy said:

It prob helps that Zach Wilson is prescribed adderall lol (not a knock/endorsement, just an observation) 

[legler82]

2 minutes ago, football guy said:

Ok then practice what you preach. Go watch the tape and try to say that Justin Fields is better at playing QB than Zach Wilson. It's not very close. Wilson does everything better than Fields. Everything. The only arguments anyone can chalk up against him is size/frame and level of competition. Otherwise, virtually every evaluation category Wilson is superior. 

It’s a matter of approach.  I always bank on potential/upside.  Hence why by top QB prospects in recent history have been Carr, Mariota, Wentz, Mahomes, Allen, Herbert & now Fields.  I’m not interested in having the best QB on week 1.  I want the potential best one period.  There’s risks in that for sure no draft prospect is not w/o risk.  Ain’t nothing worst than taking the consensus/“safer” choice and it ending up blowing up in your face anyway.  I feel if you are confident in your coaching staff and not on the hot seat, Fields is the obvious choice.  

[football guy]

6 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Problem with that statement is outside of some prominent names, most sports media still have Fields over Wilson. It is actually the NFL teams that are pushing up Wilson

Correct. Put on ESPN. Outside of a select few, the analysts and commentators are regurgitating this in unison: 

I can't stand the buffoonery any longer. 

[football guy]

3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Except he wasnt'.  Lot of people were leery of his limited success and playing time.

There were more than enough who favored Watson over Trubisky.

Why did they favor Watson? Were they conscientious of his own flaws vs. Trubiskey's or was it due to hot take, overly emotional narratives? I'd argue many were the later. 

Good talent evaluators were leary of Trubisky due to flaws in his game. Those who scream "I told you so" were simply astounded that he got drafted over Watson, who was decorated. Watson obviously turned out to be a great player, but being decorated/popular in college does not necessarily mean that player will develop into a successful pro. 

[FidelioJet]

3 minutes ago, legler82 said:

It’s a matter of approach.  I always bank on potential/upside.  Hence why by top QB prospects in recent history have been Carr, Mariota, Wentz, Mahomes, Allen, Herbert & now Fields.  I’m not interested in having the best QB on week 1.  I want the potential best one period.  There’s risks in that for sure no draft prospect is not w/o risk.  Ain’t nothing worst than taking the consensus/“safer” choice and it ending up blowing up in your face anyway.  I feel if you are confident in your coaching staff and not on the hot seat, Fields is the obvious choice.  

Is anyone saying that about Wilson? A lower ceiling?

From everything I can tell - the true professionals (not media noise) say Wilson's skill-set overall far exceeds Fields.  And if anything Wilson is the riskier pick with Mahomes/Rodgers upside.

[legler82]

11 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Problem with that statement is outside of some prominent names, most sports media still have Fields over Wilson. It is actually the NFL teams that are pushing up Wilson

There seem to be a lot of Fields fans among former players when I watch draft shows across all the sports networks.  I guess there’s a divide among players & “evaluators/draft experts”. 

[Jet Nut]

59 minutes ago, adobolo2 said:

https://www.si.com/nfl/49ers/news/49ers-hc-kyle-shanahan-to-attend-justin-fields-second-pro-day

Where does he say he has heard the Jets are taking Fields? 

[football guy]

6 minutes ago, legler82 said:

It’s a matter of approach.  I always bank on potential/upside.  Hence why by top QB prospects in recent history have been Carr, Mariota, Wentz, Mahomes, Allen, Herbert & now Fields.  I’m not interested in having the best QB on week 1.  I want the potential best one period.  There’s risks in that for sure no draft prospect is not w/o risk.  Ain’t nothing worst than taking the consensus/“safer” choice and it ending up blowing up in your face anyway.  I feel if you are confident in your coaching staff and not on the hot seat, Fields is the obvious choice.  

How can you watch Wilson and think he has less talent/upside than Fields? Please don't cite running a fast 40... 

I agree that Fields should be considered for the 49ers over Mac Jones but this narrative that he's more talented than Wilson is insane (I'm not calling you insane, just the argument that Fields is more talented). 

[football guy]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Is anyone saying that about Wilson? A lower ceiling?

From everything I can tell - the true professionals (not media noise) say Wilson's skill-set overall far exceeds Fields.  And if anything Wilson is the riskier pick with Mahomes/Rodgers upside.

FAR exceeds. I would argue that Wilson's ceiling far exceeds any QB in this class, including Lawrence. I believe Greg Cosell and Gil Brandt are the latest to publicize the exact same sentiment as well. 

[legler82]

6 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Is anyone saying that about Wilson? A lower ceiling?

From everything I can tell - the true professionals (not media noise) say Wilson's skill-set overall far exceeds Fields.  And if anything Wilson is the riskier pick with Mahomes/Rodgers upside.

I am saying Fields has the higher ceiling.  I don’t care if it goes against what the “experts” say.   I haven’t agreed w/ the consensus #1 and/or 2 QBs for like 7 straight years. 

[legler82]

1 minute ago, football guy said:

FAR exceeds. I would argue that Wilson's ceiling far exceeds any QB in this class, including Lawrence. I believe Greg Cosell and Gil Brandt are the latest to publicize the exact same sentiment as well. 

That’s the beauty of opinions we all have them and they don’t have to agree.

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, legler82 said:

There seem to be a lot of Fields fans among former players when I watch draft shows across all the sports networks.  I guess there’s a divide among players & “evaluators/draft experts”. 

I think a lot of ex-players are doing pro-Fields takes because they think Fields is being slighted because he’s black, and they believe Mahomes, Lamar, and Watson were similarly slighted in their respective draft classes. 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think a lot of ex-players are doing pro-Fields takes because they think Fields is being slighted because he’s black, and they believe Mahomes, Lamar, and Watson were similarly slighted in their respective draft classes. 

Unfortunately. I think this is pretty accurate. Experienced athletic black QB being slighted for a white QB who just came on to the scene. 

[legler82]

4 minutes ago, football guy said:

How can you watch Wilson and think he has less talent/upside than Fields? Please don't cite running a fast 40... 

I agree that Fields should be considered for the 49ers over Mac Jones but this narrative that he's more talented than Wilson is insane (I'm not calling you insane, just the argument that Fields is more talented). 

I can do it quite easily.  How you are going to tell what not to value?  I value among other things his arm strength, size, athleticism, accuracy, leadership, toughness, battle tested-ness, his aptitude to learn the parts of the position that can be thought...etc....etc.  Others value other things.

[QB1]

3 minutes ago, legler82 said:

I can do it quite easily.  How you are going to tell what not to value?  I value among other things his arm strength, size, athleticism, accuracy, leadership, toughness, battle tested-ness, his aptitude to learn the parts of the position that can be thought...etc....etc.  Others value other things.

Yea like the ability to you know, throw the football

[legler82]

2 minutes ago, Samtorobby47 said:

Unfortunately. I think this is pretty accurate. Experienced athletic black QB being slighted for a white QB who just came on to the scene. 

It hasn’t been across racial lines.  White and black former “established” players from my vantage point seem to prefer Fields.  It could be a product of Fields being more on the national scene for a longer period of time.  Anyway time will ultimately resolve this debate.  I’m confident on the side I’m on.

[shuler82]

The only disconnect I have with the Jets are 100% taking Wilson narrative is that everyone knows SF loves Wilson, SF has connections with the Jets decision makers, and yet SF trades the farm for the #3 pick. While it’s certainly possible they like Lance or Fields or Jones...something doesn’t quite add up.

[legler82]

1 minute ago, QB1 said:

Yea like the ability to you know, throw the football

I think every draftable QB and even beyond passes that threshold.

[FidelioJet]

6 minutes ago, Samtorobby47 said:

Unfortunately. I think this is pretty accurate. Experienced athletic black QB being slighted for a white QB who just came on to the scene. 

I think it's very dangerous to essentially call NFL GM's racist for choosing a QB they believe to be better for their teams.  Certainly Kyler Murray was taken early.  Many have Trey Lance ahead of Fields.  

I mean look around the league at the best QB's.  You can call just about all of them "slighted" for not being the first QB drafted in their class - many of whom are white. 

The reality is the GM's really haven't been very good at selecting the best QB's #1, or in this case #2 overall.

[legler82]

17 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think a lot of ex-players are doing pro-Fields takes because they think Fields is being slighted because he’s black, and they believe Mahomes, Lamar, and Watson were similarly slighted in their respective draft classes. 

I disagree.  There’s a clear distinction between the players feeling he is being slighted for whatever reason(s) and players feeling he is the 1st or 2nd best QB in the class.  Those 2 takes are not one in the same.  There are folks that feel he is being unfairly scrutinized and still have him ranked 3rd or lower. 

[QB1]

16 minutes ago, shuler82 said:

The only disconnect I have with the Jets are 100% taking Wilson narrative is that everyone knows SF loves Wilson, SF has connections with the Jets decision makers, and yet SF trades the farm for the #3 pick. While it’s certainly possible they like Lance or Fields or Jones...something doesn’t quite add up.

You think the Jets are just going to give Wilson to the 49ers? We are copying the 49ers offense, why wouldn’t we want the same QB they crave?

[QB1]

18 minutes ago, legler82 said:

I think every draftable QB and even beyond passes that threshold.

So does every MLB pitcher, but do they all have the same stuff?

[legler82]

40 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Is anyone saying that about Wilson? A lower ceiling?

From everything I can tell - the true professionals (not media noise) say Wilson's skill-set overall far exceeds Fields.  And if anything Wilson is the riskier pick with Mahomes/Rodgers upside.

Who are these true professionals?

[FidelioJet]

8 minutes ago, legler82 said:

Who are these true professionals?

GM's around the league.  I'm not going to pull up links for you - you can do that yourself but it's not very hard to find.  Just go to Google.

Look, if you want to believe Fields is the better prospect I'm not going to even attempt to change your mind.

But it's not hard to find that the overwhelming professionals in the space have Zach Wilson as the #1 or #2 QB in the draft.  

But just for starters I'll give you this one..

 

 

 

[legler82]

52 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Except he wasnt'.  Lot of people were leery of his limited success and playing time at NC.

There were more than enough who favored Watson over Trubisky.

There were exceptions but he was the consensus top QB.  Let’s not rewrite history.

[QB1]

3 minutes ago, legler82 said:

Who are these true professionals?

Our GM and head coach for 1

There was a poll of 23  GMs thst all had TL/Wilson 1/2

[legler82]

6 minutes ago, QB1 said:

So does every MLB pitcher, but do they all have the same stuff?

That’s deep.

[QB1]

Just now, legler82 said:

There were exceptions but he was the consensus top QB.  Let’s not rewrite history.

What? I remember everyone on earth WTFing the bears for trading up 1 spot to secure a QB that nobody wanted. Fact of the matter is that QB class was considered bad at the time 

[legler82]

Just now, QB1 said:

What? I remember everyone on earth WTFing the bears for trading up 1 spot to secure a QB that nobody wanted. Fact of the matter is that QB class was considered bad at the time 

You are conflating the dumb trade with Trubisky being the consensus top QB and the fact that the “experts” (air quotes)  thought it was a weak class.

[Irish Jet]

6 hours ago, Paradis said:

No it’s not. You’re full of sh*t on this topic. And it’s really disappointing. You can 100000 words if you want. doesn’t matter. 

All of these QB prospects are flawed. I’m not attached to any of em.  
 

 

You need to take a break from this my man. I seen you complaining in another thread that posters were trying to silence any talk of taking Fields and now you’re telling anyone who doesn’t rate him to “take this trash outside”. Pretty hypocritical, but not surprising.

I know you know your stuff on college football but your intolerance of any opinion thay goes against your own is just absolutely  embarrassing. 

Literally everything I’ve posted about Fields can be backed up with stats. He is statistically worse than the others under pressure, I am not making that up no matter how much you yell it out. He does hold the ball half a second longer than Wilson on average, despite the fact that people claim the latter only succeeded because of his protection. He does hold onto the ball longer when blitzed. A fact. All verifiable. I‘ll link you to them if you persist with these nonsensical dismissals.

If you want to put your fingers in your ears to any criticism while laughably maintaining you don’t especially care then go ahead, you be you. It’s pretty sad to be honest.