Breer: Douglas speaks on why Jets traded Darnold

[Big_Slick]

2 hours ago, Dinamite said:

Seems like SF chose to trade 3 first round picks for the 3rd qb in this class than a second round pick for Darnold. They clearly liked #3qb more than Sam.  

No - JD wasn't ready to entertain offers for Sam at that point. Read JD's quotes.

[legler82]

The excerpt below is also in Albert Breer’s article.  Talk about an on the nose heading.  Literally no one is talking about this.
 

 

WHAT NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT

How raw quarterbacks have really made it of late.

 

I brought this up in December, and the time seems right to raise it again: The way I view quarterbacks has changed over the last year or so. Before, I’d look at big, sturdy, athletic players at the position, if I’m being completely honest, with a lot of skepticism. That’s what Kyle Boller was. It’s what JaMarcus Russell was. It’s what Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker, Blake Bortles and Paxton Lynch were.

 

Forever, because of that history, I saw those types as, to a degree, fool’s gold. Then, Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen and Justin Herbert came along, and forced me to look harder at the idea of the finished product (Christian Ponder, for example, was one of those) vs. the moldable ball of clay.

 

When we examined this three months ago, I hit up a bunch of personnel people to ask them for their takes, and I’d encourage you to take a look at what those guys had to say about Mahomes, Allen and Herbert individually making it. But more than that, what stuck out to me in those discussions was an overarching theme from each of them, as they reviewed their own assessments. Just as important as what Mahomes, Allen and Herbert were coming out was who they were coming out.

 

“That’s what the draft is about,” says an NFC scouting director. “At every position. Risk vs. reward. Supply and demand. There’s a lot of ‘good’ college players but too often their skill set doesn’t translate, and they aren’t going to be frontline starters. Guys with raw ability and big-time physical tools are going to go early and sometimes earlier than they should because at least with those guys there is something to develop and they aren’t tapped.

 

“However, the thing is with those raw guys, you have to make sure they check other boxes in order for you to lower the risk. Can they learn? Do they love the game? Do they work? Do you want them in your locker room? Are they leaders? More times than not, the guys that wash out are the ones with the raw ability that aren’t willing to do the work to be great.”

 

That’s why, ultimately, the background work and Zoom meetings are a pretty important piece of the puzzle for a guy like Douglas in a year like this. Will Wilson, Fields, Jones and Lance do what it takes to mine the talent they have, and keep getting better, even after they get paid?

 

Getting the right answer to that, especially on a quarterback, is huge for teams this time of year. And it goes without saying that it was huge for the Chiefs, Bills and Chargers in the recent past as well.

 

[jetstream23]

7 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Exactly how I perceived it, my good friend.
 

Also..this tweet gave me chills. They finally get it.

I really hope so. QB, OL, WR/RB with our first three picks might prove that.

[GreenReaper]

9 hours ago, slats said:

The other thing I really like about that quote is that he clearly understands that he didn’t/wasn’t able to do enough to support Darnold since he arrived in June of 2019. It’s understanding like that which should lead him to build around (presumably) ZW further with this draft. Seems to me that there’s a consensus in the building that we haven’t seen since Bill Parcells was dictator. 

What we got to see in this article is an insight into the JD process.  After picking a coach that he never meet before.  You have to believe he hired him due to him discovering they have a mutually shared vision on how to build the Jets into a perennial playoff contender.  

Then JD sets up his FO scouts to meet with Saleh and his CS.  To get his FO a better understanding of the systems Saleh's coaches want to implement.  And the type of players needed to make it succeed.

Then the QB evaluation...

JD has Saleh-LaFleur-Knapp-Calabrese individually watch tape on their top 5 QB prospects.  And present their individual assessment of each QB.  After that...they all collectively watch the same tapes of each QB together.  And come up with a consensus of the top two.  Comparing them to Darnold.  Keeping Darnold or financially resetting the QB position with one of their top two.  

It's a collaborative process.  And yes...JD tips the scales and makes the decision final. 

This collaborative approach gives me a lot more confidence that these 21 picks Jets have over these next two drafts will be more successful with Saleh and his coaching staff involved in the process.  Then I would have with Gase and his posse.

Upgrading the OL through the draft to protect the rookie QB.  And provide him the weapons needed to have a chance to succeed.  Something that Darnold never had.  

No excuses...it has to be done.

[Dinamite]

4 hours ago, Big_Slick said:

No - JD wasn't ready to entertain offers for Sam at that point. Read JD's quotes.

Sure, when the offer was made back in February.  I meant later in the process,  when they were at pro days, SF decided to trade for #3 rather than wait to trade for Sam which would have been cheaper.

[Jet Nut]

11 hours ago, genot said:

I don't think Douglas is lying. They felt more than comfortable moving ahead with Sam. There we're inquiries by teams early on and they still hadn't made a decision. That was after watching all the game tape. If Wilson or Lawrence wasn't available in the draft.Sam would still be here.

Actually what JD said was that because of COVID and the cancellation of bowl games, the combine etc, it pushed back or eliminated the usual schedule and had to wait before they were comfortable making the trade while not being 100% on Sams replacement

Thats what I heard

[southparkcpa]

13 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Douglas is a likable character, that's for sure. 

This is a big year for him. 

Hired a coach, about to pick a quarterback second overall and has accumulated a war chest of draft capital.

Don't f*** this up. 

 

Idzik had 12 picks and cap space too...  damn I’m tainted ?

[prime21]

What I love about this article is that there is no mention of the Johnsons. It’s JD’s show!


Sent from my iPad using JetNation.com mobile app

[SR24]

13 hours ago, K_O_Brien said:

Which was a reflection of the previously flawed reporting structure. This time last year, Douglas must have known the limitations of Gase, and the negative impact he was having on Darnold. But he couldn't fire him, even if he wanted to. 

Douglas may reflect that he could have done more for Sam - maybe could have signed Conklin or traded for a receiver when we were losing guys to injuries - but I'm not sure this would have been enough to have made enough of a difference. At some point last season, it was sink or swim time for Darnold, and ultimately he wasn't good enough. 

People tend to forget Joe D held out for a 6th year on his contract. I think he knew Gase was a dud from the start and knew the first year was gonna be brutal 

[Charlie Brown]

4 hours ago, GreenReaper said:

What we got to see in this article is an insight into the JD process.  After picking a coach that he never meet before.  You have to believe he hired him due to him discovering they have a mutually shared vision on how to build the Jets into a perennial playoff contender.  

Then JD sets up his FO scouts to meet with Saleh and his CS.  To get his FO a better understanding of the systems Saleh's coaches want to implement.  And the type of players needed to make it succeed.

Then the QB evaluation...

JD has Saleh-LaFleur-Knapp-Calabrese individually watch tape on their top 5 QB prospects.  And present their individual assessment of each QB.  After that...they all collectively watch the same tapes of each QB together.  And come up with a consensus of the top two.  Comparing them to Darnold.  Keeping Darnold or financially resetting the QB position with one of their top two.  

It's a collaborative process.  And yes...JD tips the scales and makes the decision final. 

This collaborative approach gives me a lot more confidence that these 21 picks Jets have over these next two drafts will be more successful with Saleh and his coaching staff involved in the process.  Then I would have with Gase and his posse.

Upgrading the OL through the draft to protect the rookie QB.  And provide him the weapons needed to have a chance to succeed.  Something that Darnold never had.  

No excuses...it has to be done.

Thank you!

Excellent recap and why I am willing to give JD time regardless of what happens because the process is right for once!  

The organization is proper for once!

Contrast this with MacCagnan who literally never consulted Bowles other than inviting Bowles to some pro-days!  Bowles literally had no input into any players he was going to coach, shocking but true.  

IMO.....An organization cannot obtain or maintain long term success unless they take the path to success that JD is outlining.  

[Charlie Brown]

21 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Idzik had 12 picks and cap space too...  damn I’m tainted ?

The key is Idzik had picks but no process; JD has a clear organizationally sound process— big big difference!

[MysticalJet2]

So JD is great with trades, negotiations, and the budget.. I’ll give him that.  He still needs to prove his ability to bring in talent and hit on draft picks.  So far I’m not impressed with the talent he’s brought in.  The jury is still out on his drafting skills.  This last part is a very big deal with all assets in the next 2 drafts AND the fact that we are starting from the ground up again.  Unlike a team that has a solid foundation of talent or playoff caliber already, JD needs to hit at a high rate in the draft to get us, at a minimum, to the playoffs.  I am rooting for him and I do like his approach, so I hope he does it...but thus far he hasn’t shown success in those last 2 points.  Prove me wrong JD!

 

 

[southparkcpa]

15 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

The key is Idzik had picks but no process; JD has a clear organizationally sound process— big big difference!

I give him the benefit of the doubt.  I like that he hasn't thrown FU money at guys like Tanny, Idzik and MAC did only to have those guys go AWOL.  BUT, read above @MysticalJet2 speaks the truth.

[C Mart]

16 minutes ago, SR24 said:

People tend to forget Joe D held out for a 6th year on his contract. I think he knew Gase was a dud from the start and knew the first year was gonna be brutal 

At that time Lynch had already signed a 6 yr contract to go to the 49ers. So JDs agent had that in his back pocket 

[MysticalJet2]

11 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

The key is Idzik had picks but no process; JD has a clear organizationally sound process— big big difference!

I agree!  But being organized and having a process doesn’t necessarily translate to success.  It is the output from that process that matters.  I’ve worked with some highly successful people that are completely chaotic in the way they work, but their decisions and output are bar none.  

[More Cowbell]

If anything, JD has a method and he stays with it.i really didn't  learn anything new from what I read prior which kind of shows a lot of the early info was correct except for the Jets trying to trade the 2nd pick. 

[K_O_Brien]

1 hour ago, SR24 said:

People tend to forget Joe D held out for a 6th year on his contract. I think he knew Gase was a dud from the start and knew the first year was gonna be brutal 

Absolutely. I doThink I remember Douglas has a presser after the week 1 loss to Buffalo, and someone asked was he 'punting on the season'? He denied it, but wasn't exactly emotive, or particularly convincing in his denial either. 

With receivers dropping like flies to injury, there were calls for Douglas to give up a second or third for someone like Juju or Gallup. Or to bring in Ngakoue on D. But I imagine Douglas probably thought to himself, why bring in these guys to be coached for a year by a 'dead man walking' in Adam Gase, and find out they are not a scheme-fit for the next coach? 

I don't think we were absolutely 'tanking' last season, but I don't think Douglas was particularly bothered by the final win-loss column either. He was always looking at the bigger picture. 

[choon328]

12 hours ago, Big_Slick said:

Yes, I did see where JD said if they had pick 12, 13 or 14 they would've kept Sam.

 

But he also said, quoted in this article.

“It was a strong offer,” Douglas says. “We told them, Look, there’s still a lot of boxes left to check. And we just don’t feel comfortable, in case something happens with one of the top two guys, we don’t want to get caught in a bad situation, like one of two guys fails a physical and then we don’t have Sam. So we didn’t do anything.”

But right in there, you’ll also see that, to a certain degree, the Jets had already zeroed in on who their target would be at 2—and that was a result of a lot of work done in the aftermath of the Jan. 14 hire of Saleh. And at that point, based on their work through the interview process, with Saleh and others, the Jets had come to the conclusion that Darnold would be a solid scheme fit for the Shanahan system that new OC Mike LaFleur was bringing.

“Everyone thought Sam would do well in this offensive scheme,” Douglas says.

To me this doesn't say they wouldn't draft another QB, to me it says they don't think the other QBs could start right away and they'd want Darnold there as a bridge.

[football guy]

8 hours ago, legler82 said:

The excerpt below is also in Albert Breer’s article.  Talk about an on the nose heading.  Literally no one is talking about this.
 

 

WHAT NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT

How raw quarterbacks have really made it of late.

 

I brought this up in December, and the time seems right to raise it again: The way I view quarterbacks has changed over the last year or so. Before, I’d look at big, sturdy, athletic players at the position, if I’m being completely honest, with a lot of skepticism. That’s what Kyle Boller was. It’s what JaMarcus Russell was. It’s what Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker, Blake Bortles and Paxton Lynch were.

 

Forever, because of that history, I saw those types as, to a degree, fool’s gold. Then, Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen and Justin Herbert came along, and forced me to look harder at the idea of the finished product (Christian Ponder, for example, was one of those) vs. the moldable ball of clay.

 

When we examined this three months ago, I hit up a bunch of personnel people to ask them for their takes, and I’d encourage you to take a look at what those guys had to say about Mahomes, Allen and Herbert individually making it. But more than that, what stuck out to me in those discussions was an overarching theme from each of them, as they reviewed their own assessments. Just as important as what Mahomes, Allen and Herbert were coming out was who they were coming out.

 

“That’s what the draft is about,” says an NFC scouting director. “At every position. Risk vs. reward. Supply and demand. There’s a lot of ‘good’ college players but too often their skill set doesn’t translate, and they aren’t going to be frontline starters. Guys with raw ability and big-time physical tools are going to go early and sometimes earlier than they should because at least with those guys there is something to develop and they aren’t tapped.

 

“However, the thing is with those raw guys, you have to make sure they check other boxes in order for you to lower the risk. Can they learn? Do they love the game? Do they work? Do you want them in your locker room? Are they leaders? More times than not, the guys that wash out are the ones with the raw ability that aren’t willing to do the work to be great.”

 

That’s why, ultimately, the background work and Zoom meetings are a pretty important piece of the puzzle for a guy like Douglas in a year like this. Will Wilson, Fields, Jones and Lance do what it takes to mine the talent they have, and keep getting better, even after they get paid?

 

Getting the right answer to that, especially on a quarterback, is huge for teams this time of year. And it goes without saying that it was huge for the Chiefs, Bills and Chargers in the recent past as well.

 

I think the Jets made it clear with the hire of Saleh/how much importance they put into the OC and offensive coaching staff that they want to foster an offense that eases the QBs responsibility in-game, while coaching him up behind the scenes. 

We're going to run a lot and there are going to be a ton of one-read looks and easy passing concepts for Wilson this year. The stats will be deceiving (both good and bad), but how good really comes down to the Jets ability to protect him and how he develops in the film room and on the practice field. 

[Tranquilo]

1 minute ago, football guy said:

I think the Jets made it clear with the hire of Saleh/how much importance they put into the OC and offensive coaching staff that they want to foster an offense that eases the QBs responsibility in-game, while coaching him up behind the scenes. 

We're going to run a lot and there are going to be a ton of one-read looks and easy passing concepts for Wilson this year. The stats will be deceiving (both good and bad), but how good really comes down to the Jets ability to protect him and how he develops in the film room and on the practice field. 

Are we looking at any RBs in the middle rounds?

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, football guy said:

I think the Jets made it clear with the hire of Saleh/how much importance they put into the OC and offensive coaching staff that they want to foster an offense that eases the QBs responsibility in-game, while coaching him up behind the scenes. 

We're going to run a lot and there are going to be a ton of one-read looks and easy passing concepts for Wilson this year. The stats will be deceiving (both good and bad), but how good really comes down to the Jets ability to protect him and how he develops in the film room and on the practice field. 

this plan lends itself to really beefing up the OL this draft.

[football guy]

8 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

Are we looking at any RBs in the middle rounds?

Between what I've read from Pauline and what I've heard... 

Khalil Herbert, Michael Carter, Javian Hawkins, Jaret Patterson, Kene Nwangwum, Jermar Jefferson... 

[peekskill68]

13 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Why? I am not saying this is true, but if you get him on calls and he is not able to recall plays, or explain how he played or retain information he is provided or understand the offensive concepts he is presented. Or if he seems insincere or aloof or arrogant and doesn't have a love for football, you would just default back to he beat Clemson? And Wilson played through a still healing broken thumb so spare me the "he played injured" crap.

Agree with you on gauging his personality in an interview, but in terms of on field leadership, "love of football" and intangibles that produce victories, I'm going to trust what I see on the tape more than what he says in front of a white board. 

[CanadaSteve]

Joe Douglas might not work out.  His draft picks might not pan out.

BUT....

I have been a Jets fan for over 40 years, and I haven't seen this level of competency since....well, 40 years.

In today's day and age, everyone wants results NOW.  I get people wanted us back in the playoffs after this one season.  You gotta give this guy two more drafts.  After that, if we aren't in the playoffs, he is going to be in trouble.  But this was a VERY bad football team, thanks to 8 years of drafting poorly.  If Kansas City had drafted as poorly as the Jets the eight years prior to Mahomes coming, they don't go to two straight Super Bowls and win one of them.

 

[CanadaSteve]

4 minutes ago, football guy said:

Between what I've read from Pauline and what I've heard... 

Khalil Herbert, Michael Carter, Javian Hawkins, Jaret Patterson, Kene Nwangwum, Jermar Jefferson... 

What do you think Hubbard's 40 time did?  Most mocks had him going in the 4-5 round area.  Ya gotta think that has changed?

[legler82]

23 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

Agree with you on gauging his personality in an interview, but in terms of on field leadership, "love of football" and intangibles that produce victories, I'm going to trust what I see on the tape more than what he says in front of a white board. 

Does Darnold love football?

[football guy]

11 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

What do you think Hubbard's 40 time did?  Most mocks had him going in the 4-5 round area.  Ya gotta think that has changed?

Honestly not sure. I haven't done much homework on him or the RBs in general. I haven't heard or seen his name connected to the Jets, and ultimately I think they're just going to grab a guy in the 4th round. If someone like Travis Etienne or Javonte Williams falls out of the top 50 into the late second then maybe the Jets go after them? Otherwise I think it will be a guy in the middle rounds. 

I know a Jets area scout is extremely hot for Javian Hawkins, but Khalil Herbert seems like the type of RB that would fit perfectly. His playing style is a scheme fit, he has the right character profile, good athletic profile, good production, a captain... seems like he will be a guy they go for. 

[southtown24th]

17 hours ago, slats said:

I like the way Joe Douglas goes about his business but, as always, it comes down to how he drafts. The QB he takes at #2 will be his defining moment, and I’m sure he’s aware of that. 

he is well aware of that

that's why Darnold is GONE.

[legler82]

47 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

What do you think Hubbard's 40 time did?  Most mocks had him going in the 4-5 round area.  Ya gotta think that has changed?

I’m a Gainwell fan but Hubbard’s running style and speed seems ready made the wide zone. 

Canadian RB Chuba Hubbard posts blazing 40-yard dash time at pro day

[Bowles Movement]

17 hours ago, slats said:

I’ll be sitting in my living room, a couple short blocks from the Caribbean Sea, frustratedly trying to find a live broadcast I can cast to my TV, lol. 

are you living out of country now?

[Philc1]

So who is frontrunner for our next GM in 2023?

[slats]

9 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said:

are you living out of country now?

I’ve been on the Riviera Maya since last January. Living the dream! 

Probably one of the reasons I’m less unhappy than most of you. ?

[MaxAF]

I think Sam may have improved with the new coaching staff, new offensive scheme and some new infusions into the offense. But I’m ok with the decision. Well it seems like it’s Wilson. JD says Sorry about that to all the Watson guys but he’s got his own plan and Watsons not in it. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

5 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Idzik had 12 picks and cap space too...  damn I’m tainted ?

Don't worry.

Douglas knows what the Jets need:

• 5 techs 
• Box safeties 
• blocking TE's
• Boar hunters
• Second round kickers

[Bowles Movement]

2 hours ago, slats said:

I’ve been on the Riviera Maya since last January. Living the dream! 

Probably one of the reasons I’m less unhappy than most of you. ?

Im in Florida   Youre in Cancun?

im thinking about Grand Cayman

Did u become an expat?