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Don't you wish you had more legitimate complaints about Joe Douglas?


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No more, "why couldn't he convince Joe Thuney to sign with the 2-14 Jets over the back-to-back AFC champs?"  Or, "remember that time he took a backup QB with the second of three fourth rounders?

Being miserable and treating the GM like dirt is every Jets fan’s god given right.

I’ve been in a seething rage since we drafted James Morgan (over that great nickel corner whose name I can’t spell on the Rams!!) my wife left me over it  

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4 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Because we dont need defensve players?

If he takes D at either 23 or 34 and uses the rest of the draft for OL, WR whatever no one should complain

 

Yes, exactly, 

having a FQB makes sure you're competitive for 15 years....so yes, we need to do everything we can to turn him into one.

Spare no expense and give hm every opportunity to become one.

We need to go all in on ZW because if he fails we're sunk anyway....

I can honestly say I don't understand, after all these year- you don't get that.

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2 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

I don't like the Morgan pick but the Perine pick was far worse. Just a nothing prospect in a worthless position. I still can't get over it.

The bigger crime of that draft was not double dipping at WR. It was insane how many late round picks were productive and everyone seen it coming. I think this draft will be similar but we seem to have sorted it in free agency and not sure how I feel about that. 

The first free agency was a total whiff. We'd have been better off overpaying for Robby and Conklin rather than Perriman and Fant. I'd be shocked if we don't feel similarly about Linsley and Thuney after this season although they may have been less likely to join anyways. 

Douglas' record has been mixed at best. His greatest achievement has been clearing the decks and getting the draft picks, but picks are not players and the hard part is yet to come. 

Douglas came into such a terrible situation.... I can forgive him if a lot of his ideas or decisions didn't work.  I'll never forget what Bill Cowher said about being a head coach one time.  It's such a difficult job that you spend the entire first year of your job basically figuring out if what you've learned works and making mistakes.  I would imagine that GM is like that as well.  There are just so many things out of their control and so many things that only experience will teach them.  Now he's got the coach he wants and the picks he wants.  So now he's the company person exposed in Jets fans line of sight.

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9 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Yes, exactly, 

having a FQB makes sure you're competitive for 15 years....so yes, we need to do everything we can to turn him into one.

Spare no expense and give hm every opportunity to become one.

We need to go all in on ZW because if he fails we're sunk anyway....

I can honestly say I don't understand, after all these year- you don't get that.

Thats overdone as an excuse to stay away from defense.  

I was talking cb, not edge or another position where we could use help.  We desperately need a corner, if one of the top guys falls to 23 we better take him.  The draft is deep at OL.  I'm not saying ignore offense, I'm saying its a deep draft at OL and even WR and we have a lot of picks.  Using one at a tough position like corner is a must.

You know not being behind in the the 4th Q by a wide margin every game and having to pass when everyone knows you will be passing would really help our rookie QB.

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2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Thats overdone as an excuse to stay away from defense.  

I was talking cb, not edge or another position where we could use help.  We desperately need a corner, if one of the top guys falls to 23 we better take him.  The draft is deep at OL.  I'm not saying ignore offense, I'm saying its a deep draft at OL and even WR and we have a lot of picks.  Using one at a tough position like corner is a must.

You know not being behind in the the 4th Q by a wide margin every game and having to pass when everyone knows you will be passing would really help our rookie QB.

I do really get it.  CB is a gaping hole on this team.  Second only to guard - it’s not that I don’t understand and maybe you’re right that I’m over compensating in my head because of what we did to Sam...

But I just feel so strongly that I really don’t care about winning or losing right now.   We’ve been so QB starved for so long - it’s just time to overcompensate.  Develop a QB at all costs.

There are still some quality CB’s on the FA market - go and sign a couple and go all in on offense in the draft.

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22 hours ago, slats said:

...........we should expect a team that looks competent and competitive......... A team poised to get back into the post-season. 

Great.  About time we started having clear-cut expectations instead of the usual hot air and excuses.

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22 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I’ve been in a seething rage since we drafted James Morgan (over that great nickel corner whose name I can’t spell on the Rams!!) my wife left me over it

 

Yeah, keep telling yourself that was the reason !

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21 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I do really get it.  CB is a gaping hole on this team.  Second only to guard - it’s not that I don’t understand and maybe you’re right that I’m over compensating in my head because of what we did to Sam...

But I just feel so strongly that I really don’t care about winning or losing right now.   We’ve been so QB starved for so long - it’s just time to overcompensate.  Develop a QB at all costs.

There are still some quality CB’s on the FA market - go and sign a couple and go all in on offense in the draft.

I get where youre coming from but I'm not saying ignore the offense like we have in the past and ruin any chance a young has of developing.  I agree that Wilson or whoever we pick needs players on offense to help him.  

I just dont think JD is going to leave our new QB out there without any help.  We're going to pick OL, WR & CB.  The order wouldnt bother me other than I think you can find a better OL at 34 than a CB, that the CB we take at 23 would be much better than what's left at 34

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18 minutes ago, JiF said:

I too was encouraged by going 2-14 in his first full season.

This comment is a lot lazier than you usually are. 

15 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Great.  About time we started having clear-cut expectations instead of the usual hot air and excuses.

Oh, there are going to be growing pains. Rookie head coach, rookie offensive coordinator, and a rookie QB, with Joe Douglas being the experienced guy in his second year on the job. But, as I said, unlike the last two years, this is 100% his team now. There needs to be some significant signs of life this year. 

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14 minutes ago, slats said:

This comment is a lot lazier than you usually are. 

Oh, there are going to be growing pains. Rookie head coach, rookie offensive coordinator, and a rookie QB, with Joe Douglas being the experienced guy in his second year on the job. But, as I said, unlike the last two years, this is 100% his team now. There needs to be some significant signs of life this year. 

I think Douglas will be fine.  He'll have bad outcomes like every GM, but he seems to be far more thoughtful and strategic than the last two buffoons we had in place.  The biggest wildcard is Saleh.  

I have no doubts he will be a better coach than Gase.  That's an impossibly low bar that an ant could step over.

But Saleh could turn out to be a smart, dynamic, young HC, or he could turn out to be Todd Bowles 2.0.  That we just don't know yet.

I am hopeful (at least he seems to have a lot more energy than Bowles) but I think he is the lynchpin to this team's success or failure over the next few years.

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9 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I think Douglas will be fine.  He'll have bad outcomes like every GM, but he seems to be far more thoughtful and strategic than the last two buffoons we had in place.  The biggest wildcard is Saleh.  

I have no doubts he will be a better coach than Gase.  That's an impossibly low bar that an ant could step over.

But Saleh could turn out to be a smart, dynamic, young HC, or he could turn out to be Todd Bowles 2.0.  That we just don't know yet.

I am hopeful (at least he seems to have a lot more energy than Bowles) but I think he is the lynchpin to this team's success or failure over the next few years.

I like Joe Douglas a lot, and firmly believe that the criticism he gets around here is generally over petty bull****. He's clearly very deliberate and pragmatic in his approach, assigning values to players and demanding that value in trades while not exceeding it in free agency. He's also improved the WR corps and the pass rush over the last two years, which were wastelands here for some time. 

But for Joe, it all comes down to the draft. Need to see some contribution from his third and fourth rounders last year, and he needs to hit this year with the QB reset. After the QB, he needs to find an upgrade on the OL (and I won't panic if he doesn't get that done at #23). 

I'm excited about Saleh, but he's still a rookie head coach with a rookie OC and rookie QB taking over a 2-14 team. That's a lot on his plate in front of an impatient fanbase. The good news about that, though, is that I feel like these guys are more than capable of tuning out the fans and doing what they believe is right for the football team. 

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48 minutes ago, slats said:

This comment is a lot lazier than you usually are. 

lol - I mean, I just dont understand this blind confidence I'm supposed to have and apparently a bad fan because I dont have extreme confidence and optimism in a team that gives you no reason to ever be optimistic.  I just watched the worst Jets Football team of my life time and I understand fully that JD's not all to blame but I dont think he should be completely absolved as well.  

IMO he had 1 job last year, build around Sam Darnold and he failed, miserably and put one of the worst products I've ever seen around him.  The roster got worse, somehow and that's just unfathomable because it was already one of the worst rosters in the league.  When you're rock bottom and you only net add 1 player, that's not good.  It shouldnt be hard to upgrade the worst. 

I'm happy that we finally seem to have someone who is actually in charge with an appropriate structure.  Its exciting that JD has the assets to improve but executing is another story.  Probably feel different if I liked the guy he's about to tie his career to but I can save that conversation for another thread.

 

 

 

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22 hours ago, bitonti said:

Here are actual reasons to criticize Joe Douglas 

Ryan Kalil 

Kaare Vedvick 

Robby Anderson

George Fant making double Brandon Shell 

Most of last years draft picks 

And soon, flushing his career on a small mid major dude without a signature win 

 

Enjoy the season. You have already written it off. What’s the point of you following this team? So you can complain and then claim you were right?That’s sad.

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23 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

If it takes defense at 23 or 34 they'll be plenty to complain about. 

hahah. i get it but only if you're not paying attention to how the draft is developing.  i want OL as much as anyone, but its a deep OL draft. Deeper than at CB or Edge.  if JD decides to grab an Edge rusher at 23 because he knows his guy for the IOL will be there at 34 or even 66, then that's what we should want him to do. 

 

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6 minutes ago, JiF said:

lol - I mean, I just dont understand this blind confidence I'm supposed to have and apparently a bad fan because I dont have extreme confidence and optimism in a team that gives you no reason to ever be optimistic.  I just watched the worst Jets Football team of my life time and I understand fully that JD's not all to blame but I dont think he should be completely absolved as well.  

IMO he had 1 job last year, build around Sam Darnold and he failed, miserably and put one of the worst products I've ever seen around him.  The roster got worse, somehow and that's just unfathomable because it was already one of the worst rosters in the league.  When you're rock bottom and you only net add 1 player, that's not good.  It shouldnt be hard to upgrade the worst. 

I'm happy that we finally seem to have someone who is actually in charge with an appropriate structure.  Its exciting that JD has the assets to improve but executing is another story.  Probably feel different if I liked the guy he's about to tie his career to but I can save that conversation for another thread.

I don't mean to absolve him of anything, but he stepped into a mess and is working in the right way -IMHO- to fix it. He didn't go the overpriced free agent route to short term success, and I appreciate that. He did tear down the roster last year, but what option did he have? I like the way he managed to turn three Maccagnan first round picks into two firsts, a second, a third, a fourth, and a fifth round pick so he can build the team his way thru the draft. Unfortunately, that's a process that takes time. 

As I've said many times, it's all about how well he drafts. He can have the best structure/plan/vision, but if he doesn't execute in the draft, he won't be successful. And after just one draft, that jury's still out. 

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The question with JD is whether he is more process than brains really. 

He clearly is a good guy who is building a good process.  But what decisions, based on science and gut, will he make to build a roster?   I think that is the difference between success and championships.  I think the strong process will get you success, but not necessarily championships.

Brendan Beane in Buffalo clearly seems to have something going on right.  I get the sense that, despite some good moves, the Dolphins are not making great decisions.  The Patriots are the Patriots.  JD has to compete with all of that. 

I am going to give him Robby Anderson, but we have legitimate complaints.   Unless something turns around really fast, his third and fourth round picks last year contributed zero to the team and at this point were terrible.   He may have also outsmarted himself with Becton over Wirfs and Mims over Claypool-we will see.  

When you watch the Steelers and Ravens draft, you can just tell they are smarter than everyone else.  It shows in the contributors they draft outside of the first two rounds.  This is what JD needs to prove he can do.  

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

I get where youre coming from but I'm not saying ignore the offense like we have in the past and ruin any chance a young has of developing.  I agree that Wilson or whoever we pick needs players on offense to help him.  

I just dont think JD is going to leave our new QB out there without any help.  We're going to pick OL, WR & CB.  The order wouldnt bother me other than I think you can find a better OL at 34 than a CB, that the CB we take at 23 would be much better than what's left at 34

Fair enough.  
I have to get my mind around it because I do think we’re going to take a corner at 23.  

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Well JD has proven one thing he doesn't value players.   He does things his way and that's it.  He has a tolerance level that seems very low.   Either way the best this team is going to do this year is 4-13.   Unless he hits a draft that results in 8 starters.  

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34 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Enjoy the season. You have already written it off. What’s the point of you following this team? So you can complain and then claim you were right?That’s sad.

What's the point of anything, really? 

I am loyal to the laundry I just know there's no place for hope in this relationship 

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23 hours ago, bitonti said:

We treat him like this 

The reality is that his roster won 2 games last year 

Wait til we Suck for Sam Howell next season 

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36 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Enjoy the season. You have already written it off. What’s the point of you following this team? So you can complain and then claim you were right?That’s sad.

Predicting the Jets will suck is maybe the easiest bet ever

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11 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

 

We need to go all in on ZW because if he fails we're sunk anyway....

I can honestly say I don't understand, after all these year- you don't get that.

This is called the Sam Darnold plan and it doesn't really work 

Rookie qb require infrastructure 

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27 minutes ago, slats said:

I don't mean to absolve him of anything, but he stepped into a mess and is working in the right way -IMHO- to fix it. He didn't go the overpriced free agent route to short term success, and I appreciate that. He did tear down the roster last year, but what option did he have? I like the way he managed to turn three Maccagnan first round picks into two firsts, a second, a third, a fourth, and a fifth round pick so he can build the team his way thru the draft. Unfortunately, that's a process that takes time. 

As I've said many times, it's all about how well he drafts. He can have the best structure/plan/vision, but if he doesn't execute in the draft, he won't be successful. And after just one draft, that jury's still out. 

I think some folks just got tricked into the 7-9 farce because we beat a bunch of backups and bottom feeders. They expected us to go sign Conklin, Glasgow, Amari Cooper and go all in. JD rightfully knew the roster was trash and is going about it the proper way. Like you said, whether he executes is the big question. But we are in a much better position than before he got here. Boat load of picks and I have optimism Saleh is a great hire.

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39 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

hahah. i get it but only if you're not paying attention to how the draft is developing.  i want OL as much as anyone, but its a deep OL draft. Deeper than at CB or Edge.  if JD decides to grab an Edge rusher at 23 because he knows his guy for the IOL will be there at 34 or even 66, then that's what we should want him to do. 

 

The thing is we need so much on offense.  
The defense wasn’t awful and we’ve added two quality pieces and Mosley is coming back. 
 

The offense was literally one of the worst in this history of the league and we added a #2 WR.  That’s it.  We still have the worst OL I’ve ever seen.  No upgrades at all.  

we’re going to ruin Wilson the way we did Darnold if we don’t make some serious upgrades.  No quality FA’s left so it’s gotta come from the draft. 

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2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I do really get it.  CB is a gaping hole on this team.  Second only to guard - it’s not that I don’t understand and maybe you’re right that I’m over compensating in my head because of what we did to Sam...

But I just feel so strongly that I really don’t care about winning or losing right now.   We’ve been so QB starved for so long - it’s just time to overcompensate.  Develop a QB at all costs.

There are still some quality CB’s on the FA market - go and sign a couple and go all in on offense in the draft.

I think linebacker is more gaping than either position actually. Corner and guard need to be upgraded but have bodies, and guys signed for multiple years. Linebacker needs to be upgraded and needs bodies. I think they’ve got one clear cut starter this year and he’s a reclamation project on a one year deal.

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11 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

No quality FA’s left so it’s gotta come from the draft. 

Mitchell Schwartz and Larry warford are still out there. The jets just value empty cap space

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5 minutes ago, derp said:

I think linebacker is more gaping than either position actually. Corner and guard need to be upgraded but have bodies, and guys signed for multiple years. Linebacker needs to be upgraded and needs bodies. I think they’ve got one clear cut starter this year and he’s a reclamation project on a one year deal.

Lb is a dire need and frankly so is edge. Just like how Becton is not an entire line, teams need 2 edge rushers. Lawson is a start. 

In general changing from the 4-3 to the 3-4 or vice versa takes multiple seasons. Fans are overlooking this 

 

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13 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

The thing is we need so much on offense.  
The defense wasn’t awful and we’ve added two quality pieces and Mosley is coming back. 
 

The offense was literally one of the worst in this history of the league and we added a #2 WR.  That’s it.  We still have the worst OL I’ve ever seen.  No upgrades at all.  

we’re going to ruin Wilson the way we did Darnold if we don’t make some serious upgrades.  No quality FA’s left so it’s gotta come from the draft. 

I think the key is Mims development. If he is an impact player here, you're going to become a big Davis fan. Catches everything. Runs great routes.

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7 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Mitchell Schwartz and Larry warford are still out there. The jets just value empty cap space

Schwartz is done that’s why KC cut him

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