Has any other NFL team changed both its Head Coach and QB three times in five years?

[southparkcpa]

8 hours ago, Mark78 said:

15 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

THe Johnson are terrible owners.  It’s that simple.   This thread title is puts in in a perfect bow.  woody leaves a billion dollar business to his unaccomplished brother.  

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[Philc1]

5 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

It’s called a Competitive Rebuild, pal.

Year 11 of the true rebuild!

[Philc1]

15 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

THe Johnson are terrible owners.  It’s that simple.   This thread title is puts in in a perfect bow.  woody leaves a billion dollar business to his unaccomplished brother.  

The problem begins and ends with Woody.  Dumbest owner in sports PERIOD

 

And I don’t want to hear Dolan.  Dolan has had success with the Rangers and now even the Knicks are headed in the right direction while we will be lucky to win 5 games next year 

[Biggs]

20 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

The Jets will have both their 3rd different head coach and 3rd different starting quarterback (two of them Top 3 picks) in a five-year span when we begin the 2021 season. That seems unbelievable when you think about it. A lot of teams change their quarterback, several teams will change their head coach. A single team changing each of them three times within five years just seems very unusual to me.

Is there any history of this working out successfully?

Arizona is the most recent and they are failing despite the hype.  

[Lith]

10 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Agreed, but the day they're hired it's because the powers that be (ownership, front office, etc.) think they're good hires.

What are the odds that at least one or two of the Jets newest foundational pieces (Douglas, Saleh, TBD drafted rookie QB) are going to be better than the previous two or three guys that held their respective positions?  Will Douglas be better than Maccagnan, Idzik, Tanny?  Will Saleh be better than Gase, Bowles and Rex?  Will Wilson/Fields/whoever be better than Darnold, Geno, Sanchez?

I mean the fact that none of those 9 guys became long term solutions and we could just work on the other two parts as they revolved around him is just crazy.  You look at some organizations where the HC outlasts everyone including QBs and GMs, (ex. Ravens), some orgs where the QB outlasts the GMs and HCs (Green Bay, Detroit up until now, etc.), and orgs where the GM outlasts everyone (Saints, Patriots, Cardinals, etc.).

We haven't solved any one of those three most important foundational riddles with a piece that can be kept in place over the longterm.  "Stability" on the team starts with getting at least one of those 3 key pieces correct, otherwise we're continuing to try to solve one equation with 3 unknowns (for those who miss Algebra ? ).  That challenge has caused a lot of the debate around here the past decade.... Is the problem Darnold?  Is the problem just Gase and we have a good QB?  Is the problem Douglas because he hasn't solved the offensive line and playmakers problem for two years that would have allowed him to determine if the problem is Gase, Darnold or both?  Instead, the Jets just kinda throw everything away after a couple years and hit reset.

I remember 2015-2016 when the Jets had the GM of the year (Maccagnan) and a 10-win coach in Todd Bowles.  The problem was the QB.  Fast forward and we get the QB in 2018, but now the Jets are convinced the HC is bad so we swap him for Gase.  Then the Jets become convinced they have the right HC and QB, but the GM sucks.... enter Douglas.  Two years later the Jets are now convinced that the GM is the good part, the HC sucks and they don't want the QB anymore. lol  Only the Jets.  It's a game of Whack-A-Mole.  Sadly, the best odds are likely that all of Douglas, Saleh and TBD rookie QB are gone by 2026.

 

 

I guess my point was that I don't believe in stability just for stability's sake.  If you make a bad hire, recognize it and move on.  I hope we have the hires right this time and have guys who can build a stable, winning organization, but who knows.  Chain of events started in 2012 when we fired Tanny but kept Rex.  Arranged marriage #1 didn't work.

Which led us to arranged marrigae #2 in 2015.  As you point out arranged marriage #2 looked ok at first in 2015, but that was an illusion, led mostly by an older veteran core: Mangold , Brick, Colon, Harris, Fitz, Marshall, Revis, Cro.  All 30 or older.  Macc proved incapable of adding young talent to replace these guys and it was apparent by year two that the emperor had no clothes.  Which led to arranged marriages #3 (Macc/Gase) which lasted all of 3 months, but was enough to cripple the franchise for another couple of years and destroy any hope we might have had for Darnold.  We saw the results of #4 this past season.

I have no way of knowing how the Saleh/JD/QB team will work out this time, but at least the hiring process changed.  JD hired the HC, so hopefully they will be on the same page.  At least it is not another arranged marriage.  I sure hope it will work out, because I am pretty f**kin tired of a decade of bad football.  I want to at least come away from this season with some optimism that this time it is going to be different.  The 50+ year Jet fan in me needs to see it first before I am willing to believe.

[jetstream23]

4 hours ago, Lith said:

I guess my point was that I don't believe in stability just for stability's sake.  If you make a bad hire, recognize it and move on.  I hope we have the hires right this time and have guys who can build a stable, winning organization, but who knows.  Chain of events started in 2012 when we fired Tanny but kept Rex.  Arranged marriage #1 didn't work.

Which led us to arranged marrigae #2 in 2015.  As you point out arranged marriage #2 looked ok at first in 2015, but that was an illusion, led mostly by an older veteran core: Mangold , Brick, Colon, Harris, Fitz, Marshall, Revis, Cro.  All 30 or older.  Macc proved incapable of adding young talent to replace these guys and it was apparent by year two that the emperor had no clothes.  Which led to arranged marriages #3 (Macc/Gase) which lasted all of 3 months, but was enough to cripple the franchise for another couple of years and destroy any hope we might have had for Darnold.  We saw the results of #4 this past season.

I have no way of knowing how the Saleh/JD/QB team will work out this time, but at least the hiring process changed.  JD hired the HC, so hopefully they will be on the same page.  At least it is not another arranged marriage. 

 

Agree 100%.  The key things that changed are the hiring process and reporting structure.  That is at least one sign of hope.

Quote

I sure hope it will work out, because I am pretty f**kin tired of a decade of bad football.  I want to at least come away from this season with some optimism that this time it is going to be different.  The 50+ year Jet fan in me needs to see it first before I am willing to believe.

You and me both, my friend.

 

[Jetsfan80]

6 hours ago, Biggs said:

Arizona is the most recent and they are failing despite the hype.  

So they should have totally stuck with Josh Rosen and Steve Wilks, to keep that continuity going. Got it.

[Biggs]

16 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So they should have totally stuck with Josh Rosen and Steve Wilks, to keep that continuity going. Got it.

 Snark only works if you actually get it. You don’t.  

[nyjunc]

On 4/10/2021 at 3:41 PM, southparkcpa said:

THe Johnson are terrible owners.  It’s that simple.   This thread title is puts in in a perfect bow.  woody leaves a billion dollar business to his unaccomplished brother.  

Chris johnson is, woody did a good job here and thankfully he's back.

[nyjunc]

On 4/10/2021 at 10:50 AM, jetstream23 said:

The Jets will have both their 3rd different head coach and 3rd different starting quarterback (two of them Top 3 picks) in a five-year span when we begin the 2021 season. That seems unbelievable when you think about it. A lot of teams change their quarterback, several teams will change their head coach. A single team changing each of them three times within five years just seems very unusual to me.

Is there any history of this working out successfully?

I'm sure it has happened a  bunch.  The jets did from 91-95

QBs O'Brien, Nagle, Boomer

HCs Coslet, carroll, Kotite

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jetsfan80]

5 hours ago, Biggs said:

 Snark only works if you actually get it. You don’t.  

You seem fun.  

[JetsFanShawn]

1 jets

 

2 giants

[Philc1]

10 hours ago, nyjunc said:

I'm sure it has happened a  bunch.  The jets did from 91-95

QBs O'Brien, Nagle, Boomer

HCs Coslet, carroll, Kotite

 

 

 

 

 

 

Difference is we had Leon Hess with one foot in the grave realize he had no business meddling and told Parcells he’d give him total control after his buddy Dick Kotite and years of losing humiliated him

 

This franchise is stuck with Woody another 15-20 years as the real General Manager

[Sperm Edwards]

2009 Jets?

[Sperm Edwards]

2018 Bills

[nyjunc]

On 4/12/2021 at 5:36 PM, Philc1 said:

Difference is we had Leon Hess with one foot in the grave realize he had no business meddling and told Parcells he’d give him total control after his buddy Dick Kotite and years of losing humiliated him

 

This franchise is stuck with Woody another 15-20 years as the real General Manager

Woody being back is GREAT news, it's sad the way we bash Woody when he's done a very good job overall.  The longest stretch of sustained success in franchise history happened under Woody.

He has made mistakes but hopefully being away for a few years he's learned not to listen to the fans.

[Philc1]

30 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Woody being back is GREAT news, it's sad the way we bash Woody when he's done a very good job overall.  The longest stretch of sustained success in franchise history happened under Woody.

He has made mistakes but hopefully being away for a few years he's learned not to listen to the fans.