Jump to content

Interesting article about the myths surrounding Fields.


Recommended Posts

6 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Not a fields fan but he’s a better prospect than Wilson this is getting ridiculous 

No he's not which is why almost every NFL team has Zach Wilson #2. But here's the thing, Fields does not have to be bad because Wilson is better. ALL of them can be good. The incessant whining by the Fields crowd that somehow the presumed #2 got passed by is just sort of epic

  • Upvote 1
  • Thumb Down 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, QB1 said:

The Justin fields can do no wrong woke movement is the most annoying thing going 

I think you are selling yourself short

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

*author conveniently leaves out videos of the 42 throws which he claims Justin Fields threw to his second read*

To piggyback on @QB1, it does feel like these "analysts" are not really analyzing film, rather, are projecting their "woke" ideology. 

Anyone with 2 pairs of eyes who watches the all-22 can see that the vast majority of throws Fields made were pre-determined reads. Purposefully starting down a safety, then throwing to the first read (which I'm pretty confident is what this analyst is relying on as evidence that he made more progression throws than anyone else) is not a "throw beyond his first read". 

 

Fields is a talented player and seems like he's a good kid. But the desire to prop him up into something he's not is such an exhausting narrative. Maybe Fields becomes the best QB in the draft, maybe he becomes a quicker processor in the NFL, but the draft is about projection - not maybe. And right now, Fields does not project as a progression thrower no matter how much some of these "journalists" try to rewrite and re-explain history that everyone in the industry knows and accepts. 

  • Upvote 3
  • Thumb Down 1
  • Post of the Week 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, football guy said:

*author conveniently leaves out videos of the 42 throws which he claims Justin Fields threw to his second read*

To piggyback on @QB1, it does feel like these "analysts" are not really analyzing film, rather, are projecting their "woke" ideology. 

Anyone with 2 pairs of eyes who watches the all-22 can see that the vast majority of throws Fields made were pre-determined reads. Purposefully starting down a safety, then throwing to the first read (which I'm pretty confident is what this analyst is relying on as evidence that he made more progression throws than anyone else) is not a "throw beyond his first read". 

 

Fields is a talented player and seems like he's a good kid. But the desire to prop him up into something he's not is such an exhausting narrative. Maybe Fields becomes the best QB in the draft, maybe he becomes a quicker processor in the NFL, but the draft is about projection - not maybe. And right now, Fields does not project as a progression thrower no matter how much some of these "journalists" try to rewrite and re-explain history that everyone in the industry knows and accepts. 

So let me get this straight. Guys like @win4ever who have actually looked at his tape or people like me, @maury77, @Paradis who have tried to use data to better understand analytics surrounding this are all just woke culture people? If anything your collective obsession with it makes me think you’re the two who are thinking about it. Also if I can’t trust him moving his eyes through progressions, how do we know Zack Wilson doesn’t do the same thing? You don’t follow any coherent stream of logic and try to pass it off as some sort of expert opinion. 

  • Upvote 1
  • Thumb Down 1
  • Post of the Week 1
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, TheMo said:

So let me get this straight. Guys like @win4ever who have actually looked at his tape or people like me, @maury77, @Paradis who have tried to use data to better understand analytics surrounding this are all just woke culture people? If anything your collective obsession with it makes me think you’re the two who are thinking about it. Also if I can’t trust him moving his eyes through progressions, how do we know Zack Wilson doesn’t do the same thing? You don’t follow any coherent stream of logic and try to pass it off as some sort of expert opinion. 

....

 

Edited by Maxman
Garbage post removed, don't do this Jif
  • Upvote 2
  • Thumb Down 1
  • Post of the Week 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m just a layman, so maybe I missed the intricacies of QB play. But I watched every snap of Fields and I counted on 2 hands the amount of times he turned his head in the pocket.

  • Upvote 1
  • Thumb Down 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

It kind of boggles my mind that folks get so entrenched with their QB when history shows us most of these guys won’t work out and tools like QBASE that some folks love really just show the odds of the top guys succeeding aren’t *that* different.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Paradis said:

100%. It’s like a mass regression to sports card trading in middle school. 

Rich Eisen had a funny clip on his show there talking about how 99% of Jets fans right now are ready to die for Wilson, and none of them have watched a BYU game from start to finish.  “It’s crazy” 

Which is extra comical because QB is the single hardest position to project with accuracy, so people doubling down and saying they know something definitively is just chefs kiss.

  • Upvote 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

Please, so he’s propping Fields up because he’s black?   So everyone is going to run with the whole “Fields only threw to his second read 7 times” mantra?  
 

Other than a handful of posters around here, this place has become unbearable during this draft cycle.  

Precisely; just as the same guys propped up Lamar Jackson in 2018 despite the very clear and identifiable flaws in his game coming out of college. Doesn't matter what color Justin Fields' skin is; he's simply not the 1st, 2nd, or even 3rd best QB prospect. There's no need to try and pound the racial undertone narrative (which many "verified" sources have tried to interject, including many of those at TDN), because its simply not the case. Look at the big-picture: he wasn't trained the traditional responsibilities required to be a QB in the NFL and doesn't play the position in a way that would allow him to be a fit for most teams. He's more of a projection than the other guys because they did maintain a level of control over the play and more was put on their plate in terms of "QB responsibility." Does that necessarily mean Justin Fields won't develop into the draft's best QB? No. All it means is that his projection is much more difficult because you don't know what he's capable of doing within an NFL offense at this point, thus making him a riskier bet. 

Sorry that my realistic analysis on the media narrative is so "unbearable" for you. Maybe go do your homework then provide a real take before criticizing others. 

  • Upvote 2
  • Thumb Down 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Which is extra comical because QB is the single hardest position to project with accuracy, [b]so people doubling down and saying they know something[/b] definitively is just chefs kiss.

Kind of like the people here hating on Zach Wilson extra hard.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, maury77 said:

Yes, you and the other guy can figure out a person's politics by the draft prospects they like and dislike. This is the kind of hard hitting analysis that keeps this place going. 

None of us know on a given play what the pre determined read was for Fields unless we have the Ohio State playbook and know how Day and his staff coach a particular play (unless you also have an insider connection at Ohio State as well). The best any of us can do is look at general practices when it comes to a given play call and watch the quarterback's helmet to see if it is moving and scanning the field. There are lots of examples of videos of Fields scanning the field on a given play and I've posted them over the last few months, so in anticipation of your "post the video" response, I say "do a search."

It doesn't matter because at the end of the day the Jets are probably going to pick Wilson and, personally, I don't gain anything at this stage by reminding myself what a bad decision that is going to be. Enjoy him and I'll be back in 2025 when "Suck for Arch" is a thing. 

This is where people get it all wrong. I don't want the politics to infuriate the analysis, but the reality is that many of these media members/analysts try to interject their personal politics/woke ideology in their work. They have been for a long time. 

If you're that blind to it, then I pity you. If you're that confident in Justin Fields being a better prospect than Zach Wilson, then I also pity you... you clearly don't know what you're watching if that's the case; might as well just go play Madden. 

Does that mean that Zach Wilson will absolutely be better than Fields? No. There are so many different factors that go into NFL success. But purely from tape study and knowing what responsibilities Wilson (and Lance for that matter) had as opposed to Fields, it's clear as day that Wilson is the far superior prospect, and the Jets would be making a catastrophic mistake by selecting Fields over him... especially considering they are anticipating starting their rookie QB week 1 and have no desire to change their offense to adapt to Fields style of play. 

The reason why I get a chuckle out of the political narrative is that Fields is a-political and actually privately supported Donald Trump. If some of these media members found out about that much he'd probably be their 7th rated QB overnight... 

  • Upvote 2
  • Thumb Down 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, football guy said:

This is where people get it all wrong. I don't want the politics to infuriate the analysis, but the reality is that many of these media members/analysts try to interject their personal politics/woke ideology in their work. They have been for a long time. 

If you're that blind to it, then I pity you. If you're that confident in Justin Fields being a better prospect than Zach Wilson, then I also pity you... you clearly don't know what you're watching if that's the case; might as well just go play Madden. 

Does that mean that Zach Wilson will absolutely be better than Fields? No. There are so many different factors that go into NFL success. But purely from tape study and knowing what responsibilities Wilson (and Lance for that matter) had as opposed to Fields, it's clear as day that Wilson is the far superior prospect, and the Jets would be making a catastrophic mistake by selecting Fields over him... especially considering they are anticipating starting their rookie QB week 1 and have no desire to change their offense to adapt to Fields style of play. 

The reason why I get a chuckle out of the political narrative is that Fields is a-political and actually privately supported Donald Trump. If some of these media members found out about that much he'd probably be their 7th rated QB overnight... 

You really need to get over yourself.   You act as if you are some sort of authority on everything.  Personally I think you’re full of full s**t with all your supposed “sources”.   Grow up a little.  

  • Upvote 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, TheMo said:

So let me get this straight. Guys like @win4ever who have actually looked at his tape or people like me, @maury77, @Paradis who have tried to use data to better understand analytics surrounding this are all just woke culture people? If anything your collective obsession with it makes me think you’re the two who are thinking about it. Also if I can’t trust him moving his eyes through progressions, how do we know Zack Wilson doesn’t do the same thing? You don’t follow any coherent stream of logic and try to pass it off as some sort of expert opinion. 

Not at all. I'm saying that TDN has often interjected politics into it, and often tailors the analysis to support the player because it serves their interest to prop up Fields... which is so irresponsible and ridiculous quite honestly. My criticism of the author was the author of the article, not the poster who passed it along. Go look up Ben Solak's twitter activity - him passing along/"liking" tweets saying that Fields is only falling because he's black - then tell me that he doesn't have some sort of racial bias to prop up Fields. 

As far as the eyes, you can clearly see it on the all-22. When a player is looking off the safety he's not looking at his reads; he's looking at an open space in the defense, and this is something the Ohio State QBs have been taught to do. When you watch Zach Wilson's tape, it's very easy to see his eyes connect with the player (he often directs them as well) before moving onto the next person. He's an extremely quick processor and that's evident on tape... it's not evident with Fields. That's not intended to be a criticism, it's just reality. 

  • Upvote 1
  • Thumb Down 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, football guy said:

Sorry that my realistic analysis on the media narrative is so "unbearable" for you. Maybe go do your homework then provide a real take before criticizing others. 

Few things reek of reaching more than drawing Lamar into a Fields convo.  I haven’t seen eye to eye with you on anything Fields related since you said Lance was more more pro ready. That’s fine, we don’t all need to agree on everything - but the condescending position you’ve taken in these threads have been backed up by fck all in terms of insight and analysis. You’ve referenced presnap reads or some such thing a few times and that’s it - despite overwhelming evidence to suggest otherwise. There are numerous articles written by people who forgotten more about the position than youll ever know - on the subject of Fields and mythbusting these misconceptions about him. This article for example - you’ve addressed nothing about the points raised within. You’re tapped out on Fields criticism. So consider developing some diplomacy with your fellow Jets fans and drop the “woke” diatribes. 

  • Upvote 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

YOU brought up the whole “woke” thing.   How about you don’t act like a baby when questioned about something.  Telling me to do my homework?   Grow some thicker skin.  

I piggybacked on a comment that holds some serious weight. Turn on ESPN or go follow these people's twitter activity and tell me he's wrong. 

Also, no thanks to the thicker skin... but thanks for your concern 

Thick Skin - Ancient Aliens | Meme Generator

  • Upvote 1
  • Thumb Down 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

You really need to get over yourself.   You act as if you are some sort of authority on everything.  Personally I think you’re full of full s**t with all your supposed “sources”.   Grow up a little.  

Futurama Fry Meme - Imgflip

No thanks

  • Thumb Down 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, football guy said:

I piggybacked on a comment that holds some serious weight. Turn on ESPN or go follow these people's twitter activity and tell me he's wrong. 

Also, no thanks to the thicker skin... but thanks for your concern 

Thick Skin - Ancient Aliens | Meme Generator

Again, unbearable. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

@football guy Espn has become un watchable and sports radio is getting even worse . Anita marks said this Ol class isn’t good , mac jones is 2nd best QB and Wilson doesn’t deserve going in the 1st round . The common fan listens to this crap and regurgitates it . I watch every snap no matter wat and I use my own eyes . Most of the educated fans moved to YouTube because the media is 🤮🤮🤮

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Few things reek of reaching more than drawing Lamar into a Fields convo.  I haven’t seen eye to eye with you on anything Fields related since you said Lance was more more pro ready. That’s fine, we don’t all need to agree on everything - but the condescending position you’ve taken in these threads have been backed up by fck all in terms of insight and analysis. You’ve referenced presnap reads or some such thing a few times and that’s it - despite overwhelming evidence to suggest otherwise. There are numerous articles written by people who forgotten more about the position than youll ever know - on the subject of Fields and mythbusting these misconceptions about him. This article for example - you’ve addressed nothing about the points raised within. You’re tapped out on Fields criticism. So consider developing some diplomacy with your fellow Jets fans and drop the “woke” diatribes. 

Fields is a 10x better prospect than Lamar was. The point was to shed light on how people freaked when Lamar fell to 32 over very real concerns with his game... they made it about race when it should've only been about the flaws in his game. 

As far as people writing articles, that's all they're doing... writing articles. I trust my eyes, I trust who I talk to, and I trust Daniel Jeremiah, Dane Brugler, and Lance Zierlien in the media. Everyone else I feel safe ignoring. 

  • Upvote 1
  • Thumb Down 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, JiF said:

wow, just, wow

 

How good does it make you feel to press "thumbs down" on a post lol?

So lets get back to football. 

This article is trash. That doesn't make Fields a bad prospect. He's a very good one at that. He's someone who is raw that will need some time to develop, would benefit going to a team who is willing to implement an RPO-style system that maximizes Fields' sub-4.4 speed/less requirement to read the entire field consistently as he learns to adjust to an NFL offense. Has the best body/overall athleticism of all the QBs. Would say he's the 4th QB, but after Wilson/Lawrence, you can make an argument he should be 3rd depending on the offensive scheme and situation. Ideal fit is the New England Patriots assuming they run the same offense they did with Cam last year. If he lands in a system like Denver, he'll probably fail. 

  • Upvote 1
  • Thumb Down 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...