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12 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I'm very OK with this or the edge from uga. There's a scenario where Micah Collins falls just because other teams don't have a dire need 

I think if he falls it will have nothing to do with ability...it's off the charts. It's all the other stuff.

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Sam will look better as he’ll have a better roster but ZW will flash like Darnold never did.  

Jesus ... so a 4th year QB vs a rookie. Ill say I'd be ecstatic if Zach matches Darnold. I expect him shine .. but would also understand a 4-12 season if he looks good. All my cash ??? Probably go

If the Panthers draft Pitts or Sewell and stay healthy then Sam is in hands down the best situation of any NFL QB. Still Zach.

15 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

They've gotten better by adding a quality WR.  That's a good thing.  I was VERY happy to see that and am excited for him and Mims - big, fast targets...

But they didn't do much of anything else.  I'm just stating a fact.  This was the worst OL in the league and they haven't upgraded it.

I want the team to be better, I'm hoping they do more.  As of right now it's not a lot better - it's one player better.

Why is that so bad that I'm pointing that out?

It’s not I agree just pointing out that if they choose Wilson that replacing Darnold with Wilson just makes the team even more worse.

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51 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

We need good players.  Adding back-ups that you're pointing to is why we had the worst offense in the league. 

Other teams back-ups aren't going to help us win - we added a starting WR - ONE.  That's it, otherwise it's back-ups.

I swear I went through this all last off-season - you guys all kept getting excited about all the pieces JD was adding, but he was adding back-ups from other teams.

New is not necessarily better - it's just new.

 

Guess we disagree on good.  I think Corey Davis and Keenan Cole are quite good.  I think Coleman will be a solid RB as will Johnson in the new system.

 I will give you the OL.  We need more, and it is still a big work in process  I think it happens during this draft.  We also have Clark from last year who could push for time.   It certainly wasn't going to be one year we solved 5 issues plus depth on the line, and it will probably take more than just one draft.  That's what happens when the most important collective position on an NFL team gets ignored for 8 years.

At some point, we need a VERY good TE.  Pitts would have been wonderful, but I don't see JD spending multiple picks moving back up to get there.  Who knows.

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I expect Darnold will have his best year next year. New team, better roster, better coaching (by a lot) and a new set of division and conference teams. It may not be a fantastic year for a QB generally but having a lot of help around him is naturally going to make it easier to have a better year. 

Whoever we draft deserves to be judged on his own merits based upon the team around him. It's unfair to expect a rookie QB to walk into an organization with a brand new coaching staff and a still rebuilding roster and expect him to have a banner year. 

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6 minutes ago, bitonti said:

For the record I make these terribly negative statements hoping the Jets prove me wrong. I bet against the team, hoping to buy the win.

It hasn't happened for a while. 

When I used to root for the team, Homer bit, that guy was wrong on a weekly basis 

I think you're talking about someone else but nonetheless, 

A Jets fan can be optimistic or accurate but he can't be both 

I have no doubt you'll be pulling for Zach. 

It's not you, but you're not really an anti Zach guy.  You're not running around over and over again calling him a guaranteed bust.

You just don't think he's #2 overall talent - I still don't quite get that - but that's neither here nor there.

There seems to be a collective group that thinks the entire GM and professional establishment are completely fooled by Zach Wilson's film and don't understand that he only looked good because of the competition they played and that somehow the professionals don''t understand that, like somehow they're under a spell, but JN knows the truth.

Or somehow his shoulder surgery, that many, many NFL QB's have had and his size which is middle of the pack - is worse for him than the other guys and that the entire GM and professional establishment -regardless of all the close up medical information they have - they just doesn't see what JN knows as a fact. Or that size has no bearing on NFL QB injury history and even less so in today's game - doesn't matter.  They know he's going to injured.

There is just a dislike of him that has no real argument other than I don't' like him.  To each his own and everyone is welcome to their opinion, but these people, I have no doubt, will be rooting for him to fail.

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7 hours ago, Pointdexter said:

Who has a better year in 2022:

 

Zach Wilson with the Jets in LaFleur's offense

Or

Sam Darnold with the Panthers in Joe Brady's offense

 

*In my opinion if it's a draw then that's a win for the Jets since Wilson is younger and he saves tons of cap space.

Darnold will benefit from Joe Brady as OC, an above average OL, a consistent and effective running game and a slew of weapons.  Carolina will go 10-6 and make the playoffs.  Darnold will throw for 4,400 yards 27 TD and 14 Ints.

Wilson will have rookie struggles, a below average OL, a poor running game and a below avg group of weapons. The Jets will finish 7-9  Wilson will throw for 3.600  yards 22 TDS  24 INTS.

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45 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Guess we disagree on good.  I think Corey Davis and Keenan Cole are quite good.  I think Coleman will be a solid RB as will Johnson in the new system.

 I will give you the OL.  We need more, and it is still a big work in process  I think it happens during this draft.  We also have Clark from last year who could push for time.   It certainly wasn't going to be one year we solved 5 issues plus depth on the line, and it will probably take more than just one draft.  That's what happens when the most important collective position on an NFL team gets ignored for 8 years.

At some point, we need a VERY good TE.  Pitts would have been wonderful, but I don't see JD spending multiple picks moving back up to get there.  Who knows.

Fair enough...I'll play along.  Here's the bright side of the argument.  Hypothetical of course

  • Becton will be a better version of his rookie self (LT upgrade)
  • Mims will be a better healthier version of his rookie self (WR upgrade)
  • Corey David over Perriman (WR upgrade)
  • Clark is a starting caliber guard and will come in and win the position (upgrade)
  • Herndon finds his hands and flourishes in this offense which is much better suited for his skill-set (upgrade)
  • Johnson is a stud in hiding (I really like him) he's fast and flashed last year.  Given a better OL he can be a real threat (upgrade)
  • McGovern finds his old form and gets back to a top 15 center (upgrade)
  • We draft offense at 23, 34 and 66 and at least two of the three win starting jobs (two upgrades)

That's essentially 9 positions being upgraded - and a very different team.

Now, all of that isn't going to happen but if a few of them do - then there is reason to be optimistic.  I'm gonna stay in the I'll believe it when I see it category but I can see the optimism argument.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I have no doubt you'll be pulling for Zach. 

It's not you, but you're not really an anti Zach guy.  You're not running around over and over again calling him a guaranteed bust.

You just don't think he's #2 overall talent - I still don't quite get that - but that's neither here nor there.

There seems to be a collective group that thinks the entire GM and professional establishment are completely fooled by Zach Wilson's film and don't understand that he only looked good because of the competition they played and that somehow the professionals don''t understand that, like somehow they're under a spell, but JN knows the truth.

Or somehow his shoulder surgery, that many, many NFL QB's have had and his size which is middle of the pack - is worse for him than the other guys and that the entire GM and professional establishment -regardless of all the close up medical information they have - they just doesn't see what JN knows as a fact. Or that size has no bearing on NFL QB injury history and even less so in today's game - doesn't matter.  They know he's going to injured.

There is just a dislike of him that has no real argument other than I don't' like him.  To each his own and everyone is welcome to their opinion, but these people, I have no doubt, will be rooting for him to fail.

Anyone who dislikes Zach Wilson loves Sam Darnold.  Its that simple.  

 

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26 minutes ago, section314 said:

I think if he falls it will have nothing to do with ability...it's off the charts. It's all the other stuff.

JD is a fan of the ole boom bust 

Those people are over thinking it, he's one of the best linebackers in linebacker u history 

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21 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I have no doubt you'll be pulling for Zach. 

It's not you, but you're not really an anti Zach guy.  You're not running around over and over again calling him a guaranteed bust.

You just don't think he's #2 overall talent - I still don't quite get that - but that's neither here nor there.

There seems to be a collective group that thinks the entire GM and professional establishment are completely fooled by Zach Wilson's film and don't understand that he only looked good because of the competition they played and that somehow the professionals don''t understand that, like somehow they're under a spell, but JN knows the truth.

Or somehow his shoulder surgery, that many, many NFL QB's have had and his size which is middle of the pack - is worse for him than the other guys and that the entire GM and professional establishment -regardless of all the close up medical information they have - they just doesn't see what JN knows as a fact. Or that size has no bearing on NFL QB injury history and even less so in today's game - doesn't matter.  They know he's going to injured.

There is just a dislike of him that has no real argument other than I don't' like him.  To each his own and everyone is welcome to their opinion, but these people, I have no doubt, will be rooting for him to fail.

Knowing the Jets are going to make me eat my veggies on this one, watched usc game. It's probably his most impressive win. He's a real prospect. But these qb evaluations are voodoo to me. And everyone else kinda 

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3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Knowing the Jets are going to make me eat my veggies on this one, watched usc game. It's probably his most impressive win. He's a real prospect. But these qb evaluations are voodoo to me. And everyone else kinda 

Correct. 

The problem is that nobody knows how a 21 year old kid is going to handle the mental/psychological pressure of playing QB in the NFL.

You can interview a guy until you are blue in the face, you still have no idea. 

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8 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Knowing the Jets are going to make me eat my veggies on this one, watched usc game. It's probably his most impressive win. He's a real prospect. But these qb evaluations are voodoo to me. And everyone else kinda 

And that was his Sophomore year - not the "one hit wonder" season.  

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1 hour ago, bitonti said:

For the record I make these terribly negative statements hoping the Jets prove me wrong. I bet against the team, hoping to buy the win.

It hasn't happened for a while. 

When I used to root for the team, Homer bit, that guy was wrong on a weekly basis 

I think you're talking about someone else but nonetheless, 

A Jets fan can be optimistic or accurate but he can't be both 

Wasn’t talking about you. 

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47 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Anyone who dislikes Zach Wilson loves Sam Darnold.  Its that simple.  

 

This is not entirely true. 

I loved Sam, sorry to see him go, will be rooting for him. 

I am 1000% on the Wilson train. 

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Fair enough...I'll play along.  Here's the bright side of the argument.  Hypothetical of course

  • Becton will be a better version of his rookie self (LT upgrade)
  • Mims will be a better healthier version of his rookie self (WR upgrade)
  • Corey David over Perriman (WR upgrade)
  • Clark is a starting caliber guard and will come in and win the position (upgrade)
  • Herndon finds his hands and flourishes in this offense which is much better suited for his skill-set (upgrade)
  • Johnson is a stud in hiding (I really like him) he's fast and flashed last year.  Given a better OL he can be a real threat (upgrade)
  • McGovern finds his old form and gets back to a top 15 center (upgrade)
  • We draft offense at 23, 34 and 66 and at least two of the three win starting jobs (two upgrades)

That's essentially 9 positions being upgraded - and a very different team.

Now, all of that isn't going to happen but if a few of them do - then there is reason to be optimistic.  I'm gonna stay in the I'll believe it when I see it category but I can see the optimism argument.

 

 

That's the spirit!  :)

That said, I think we will draft a center, which could mean McGovern moves to guard and solves two issues.  I am very surprised we didn't resign Elflein, but he might not have wanted to stay here.  I don't think we can get Creed Humphrey as I think he will go before #23, but I have no doubt we have a shot at Landon Dickerson or Josh Myers.  If we draft a guard, like say Wyatt Davis, then I think McGovern stays where he is.  Fant will anchor the RT position, and should, for another year.  We can draft RT next year.

The rest?  Who knows.   How good is Pat Freirmuth, Brevin Jordan or Hunter Long as TE prospects?  I think we can draft another WR as well, but perhaps later in the draft.  At some point, we are drafting a CB early.  That will be happening, and its a pretty deep draft for it.  

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1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

Correct. 

The problem is that nobody knows how a 21 year old kid is going to handle the mental/psychological pressure of playing QB in the NFL.

You can interview a guy until you are blue in the face, you still have no idea. 

The only QB prospect I thought and was correct on that this was a non issue was Pat Mahomes.

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6 hours ago, Pointdexter said:

Who has a better year in 2022:

 

Zach Wilson with the Jets in LaFleur's offense

Or

Sam Darnold with the Panthers in Joe Brady's offense

 

*In my opinion if it's a draw then that's a win for the Jets since Wilson is younger and he saves tons of cap space.

I think you mean 2021, but for either 2021 or 2022, I honestly don't know.  I do think Darnold is in a better situation right out of the gates, meaning that he has 3 years of experience, some great weapons like Christian McCaffrey and DJ Moore, coaching that will be the best he's had thus far in the NFL, and Carolina could add an OLineman or new weapon at #8.  Darnold is likely to be more successful sooner I guess is what I'd say.

But in 2022, that's where if Wilson is a truly better prospect with better physical tools and decision-making that I'd expect him to elevate.  The Jets should also have a much better roster by then and it will be Year 2 of the offensive system.

 

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6 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

This is the main reason why Wilson will fail here, he is 💯 expected to come in and lift this franchise up, and will be labeled a bust at the first sign of struggle.

Wait he’s not a cross between Mahomes and Rodgers?

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Agreed. The edge and olb value line up better at 23 than the iol/rt value 
Side note if cj mosely had a reasonable contract he'd be traded already. He's played 3-4 his whole life including Bama. Jarrad Davis only game experience is at Mike. People are projecting mosely at Mike and Davis at Sam but let's see if mosely makes it through the draft without being traded. A perfect j&j way to use the rest of the cap space.
They need a dynamic Sam and also a will and Sam especially are tough to find 
Oh yeah and they also need an edge across from Lawson. Even jd can't be delusional enough to believe Zuniga is the answer 
 
Agree would be blessing to get some picks for mosely and dump the cap hit ... also agree that finding big strong guys that can fly to the ball are rare.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app


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13 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

If the Panthers draft Pitts or Sewell and stay healthy then Sam is in hands down the best situation of any NFL QB.

Still Zach.

Best situation in the NFL?

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