Jump to content

For those still wishing for Fields, get in here! We're going to his proday tomorrow again


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 691
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I find it hilarious that off platform throws are now a requirement for top QBs.  In 2017 Mahomes’ off platform brilliance was labeled as “bad mechanics”.  Now we would “like to see a few more examples

Great source

La Canfora saying it’s not for sure Wilson is the pick at 2 is pretty much 100% confirmation that Wilson is for sure the pick at 2

Posted Images

1 hour ago, adobolo2 said:

Hope joe douglas reads this from Casserly.....take Pitts at #2 and fields at #23 😂😂😂😂

 

Charlie Casserole is a cheesy smelling collection of skin tags and liver spots.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, RogerVick1980 said:

Let’s wait and see what we do in the draft. Also this isn’t a one year thing.. next year is still gonna be rebuild mode we’re not gonna be a playoff team next year it’s about building.

 

Here’s a scenario to start draft night off with a bang. Swap 1st round picks with the Niners for pick #43. Take Fields with pick 3. Trade back up into the top 20 with picks #34 & #43. We have our FQB with four 1st rounders the next two years.

  • Thumb Down 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, long time suffering Jets f said:

Here’s a scenario to start draft night off with a bang. Swap 1st round picks with the Niners for pick #43. Take Fields with pick 3. Trade back up into the top 20 with picks #34 & #43. We have our FQB with four 1st rounders the next two years.

You don’t pass up the better QB for a second rounder 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, long time suffering Jets f said:

Here’s a scenario to start draft night off with a bang. Swap 1st round picks with the Niners for pick #43. Take Fields with pick 3. Trade back up into the top 20 with picks #34 & #43. We have our FQB with four 1st rounders the next two years.

If we were going to pass up Wilson, we would have kept Darnold. 

Darnold + 12 + 2021 3rd + 2022 1st + 2023 1st > Fields + 43. 

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, QB1 said:

You don’t pass up the better QB for a second rounder 

Wilson may very well end up being the better QB. What concerns me is will he be able to hold up in the NFL with his lean frame. Yes I prefer Fields, but I’ll be OK if we take Wilson but we better go OL at #23 if that’s the case.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, long time suffering Jets f said:

Wilson may very well end up being the better QB. What concerns me is will he be able to hold up in the NFL with his lean frame. Yes I prefer Fields, but I’ll be OK if we take Wilson but we better go OL at #23 if that’s the case.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seems like all players who need to, hit the weight room and bulk up in the NFL. And isn’t Wilson’s frame comparable to Aaron Rodgers? 
I think a lot of Fields fans are more comfortable with his “manly” aspects than what they perceive to be Wilson’s “pretty boy, rich kid, fragile” aspects. Not to mention slagging Wilson for his Mormonism, which frankly is nobody’s business. The Field’s fans want that “tough guy” image representing them. Truth is, any of these top tier QB’s could be hurt on any given play. If Fields runs as much as he did in college, he stands a good chance of shortening his career. Who knows? Some total 6th rounder might emerge and blow them all away. Our fan preferences matter little in the end. It’s up to Joe, Coach Saleh to pick one and then ... let’s roll! 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Justin Fields is now the betting favorite to go third overall

On March 29, North Dakota St. quarterback Trey Lance was the favorite to be the third overall pick in the draft. Then, Alabama quarterback Mac Jones became the favorite. Now, there’s a third favorite to go third overall.

PointsBet has made Ohio State quarterback Justin Fields the favorite to become the pick of the 49ers at No. 3.

Currently, Fields has odds of -125 for to hear his name called as the third player picked, two weeks from tonight. Jones is +100, and Lance is +450.

On March 29, Lance was the favorite at +130. Fields had odds of +150, and Jones stood at +160. By April 8, Jones moved to -200 favorite, with Fields at +250 and Lance at +300.

Now, it’s Fields.

The reason for the shift isn’t clear. Surely, the 49ers aren’t investing three first-round picks and a third-round pick without having a damn good idea as to their intended selection. There’s a fine line, frankly, between building a mystery and creating the impression that the 49ers traded up without a firm and specific plan.

Also, keep this simple reality of the NFL’s ultimate reality show in mind. For the same reason that the powers-that-be don’t want picks to be tipped during the draft, they also don’t want a bunch of picks to be set in stone before the draft begins. Already, it’s widely presumed that the Jaguars will take Trevor Lawrence at No. 1 and the Jets will take Zach Wilson at No. 2. If the 49ers make their plans known, why tune in for the first hour of the draft?

So don’t be surprised if reporters and analysts who work for the networks that will televise the draft to try to keep the plans at No. 3 and beyond as vague and uncertain as possible, for as long as possible. Indeed, why would anyone watch the ultimate reality show if the ultimate reality already is known?

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, adobolo2 said:

I'm probably wrong on this but I was lead to believe that the Shanahan offence was based around a qb staying on script, a kind of do what we tell you and you will be successful. 

Leflour went the green bay and told Rodgers to stop going off script and it's got him MVP of the league.

This is why the 49ers are been linked with Jones.

Fields is supposed to have great accuracy and pocket presence so I don't get why you don't think he is a good fit for the leflour offence at the jets?  Also Wilson seems to take the decision of plays into his own hands by throwing deep (successfully) when there seemed to be recievers who had been schemed open underneath, I'm not saying wilson is not a good QB for the jets but don't understand why Fields who has been doing what we need longer is not.

I meant to write off-platform* whereas Mahomes plays off-script... 

As far as Fields, I’ve posted my perspective so many times that I’m sure if you look at my recent posts you’ll find a few. But in short: he’s not ready to play in this offense, not close. It’s not his fault but he’s not. Can he? I would think yes eventually. How high of a level? I’m not sure because it all has to do with how he learns to read defenses, call protections, develop greater feel for pressure, go through progressions, throw with more anticipation more frequently, and throw on the move with accuracy and without losing “zip” on the ball (which has been cited as a weakness for him). If the class was Lawrence-Fields-Jones I’m taking Fields, signing a veteran, and looking to develop him for a year possibly 2. That’s not the case. Given the choice between he and Zach Wilson—who displays the fastest field processing/progression ability of any QB on tape, a unique ability to throw big-play “yolo” balls while finding the safe spaces in the defense, the ability to throw on the move off-platform* from a variety of different angles without sacrificing throw power or accuracy, the display of high level athleticism for a QB on tape, the amount of responsibilities he had and his 2 years experience working in the same scheme we are implementing—the decision isn’t close. That’s not me saying Fields can’t fit, rather, given the choice between he and Wilson (and to a lesser extent Lance)... it’s not close 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, legler82 said:

My QB evaluation is much more simple.  Special arm talent is always the trump card.  When you have said arm talent it generally moves you to the front of my line assuming some minimum measurables threshold are met and no character concerns.  Mahomes had that special arm a la Rodgers, Stafford, George, Cutler...etc.  If I was in the camp that put Wilson in that tier of arm talent, he’d be my #1 QB too.  Alas, I don’t view his arm talent to be at that level.  

Short of elite arm talent, I fall back to the best combination of traits w/ enough evidence of aptitude and desire to maximize their potential.  Josh Allen was that for me in 2018 and Fields is that for me in 2021.  Too often I see Jets fans elevate or downgrade QB prospects based on their belief in our current CS’s ability or inability to develop.  We tend to lean towards the perceived most ready prospect as opposed to who we think could be the best under the right environment (i.e., most upside).  Aside from having lightning quick release and the propensity to throw off platform more often, I don’t see any thing Wilson does so much better than Fields that the gap could not be closed via coaching and personal development.  On the other hand Fields will likely always be bigger, faster, stronger...etc.  

Some put tremendous value in having a quick release; I can respect that.  My only counter to that is that there are good and bad QBs with quick releases.  In fact, Shanahan, whose offense we will be running, might be replacing his quick release QB with Fields in a couple of weeks.  With regards to off platform throws, if it’s something your QB is doing often, then generally there is something wrong with your offensive line and/or QB.  Having the “ability” to throw off platform should be the requirement not the “tendency” to IMO.

Totally agree with arm talent being highly important to me. I like guys with unique arm talent, hence why I see Mac Jones as a 2nd round—Andy Dalton-level prospect. But that makes me question how do you go by this and have Fields rated higher than Wilson? You cite that you don’t see Wilson’s arm at that “elite” level, which I strongly oppose. It may not be as powerful as Mahomes’ or nfl-Rodgers’ (his arm wasn’t as live at Cal), but everything else is there and he’s superior in some areas than other (specifically looseness, arm angles, and velocity). Also think about what you’re saying: arm talent. Not pure arm strength/power. There’s a lot that goes into that... hand speed, snap speed, release/delivery, throw slots/angles, flexibility, touch, velocity/zip, ball placement, explosiveness and throw power/how far can you throw it. 

You cite QBs with “quick releases” who aren’t very good. Is it because their release or is it because they’re missing other factors that go on to define arm talent (I.e. strength, hand quickness, touch...). Otherwise understandable, but let’s move on. 

Now look at Fields. By your comps and by Fields’ tape, he does not have special arm talent. Strong arm no doubt, but no more powerful than Zach’s arm (which shows signs of even more power in the limited times he’s actually stepped through his throws/torqued his hips... right now he’s “all arm”). Fields is a body thrower. Plenty of arm, but is it special? No... and that’s not a criticism, but he doesn’t have any of the qualities that some of the QBs you mentioned. All those guys generate their throws from their arm/shoulder/torso/obliques, hence their unique ability to throw outside of structure... Fields struggles outside of structure because his throws are generated through his entire body, most importantly hips/legs... when the pocket is clean and his feet are set, he can drive the ball with great zip and incredible accuracy. He uses his entire stride, which is how you’re supposed to do it and is the case for most pocket passers. However, this also explains why the NFL has shifted towards guys who can move and throw off-platform or escape and make plays outside of structure... guys who do all their work from the pocket and lack the consistent ability to throw off-platform tend to struggle in the face of a pass rush more because the disruption screws up their mechanics, which results in inaccuracy and mistakes (sound familiar?)... when throwing on the run Fields tends to hitch down a gear and then throws flat-footed, which also led to mistakes; it’s just not as natural for him right now. He’s got some Cam Newton-Dak Prescott in him; both can run and have great builds, but despite being able to run, they aren’t natural throwing on the run... he’s a better thrower than Cam (maybe not as powerful of an arm but overall better talent and more accurate), and he’s more like Dak from a mechanics/throwing style/accuracy standpoint. Great prospect, but if you’re going on pure arm talent I don’t see why he’d be your guy. 

So far if I’m reading you correctly, you value QBs who can throw with elite “power”—in which case I’m confused why you’re not Trey Lance > Justin Fields (removing Wilson from the equation). In any event, I don’t think you’re fully grasping the Shanahan offense with all due respect. Quick release is just one factor of many. Doesn’t have to have a quick release, every coach just prefers it regardless of scheme. I understand your saying that off-platform throwing is not a necessity because you’re correct it’s not; instead you simply need to be athletic enough to throw on the move, which Fields should be able to develop. But if you want to maximize the scheme it is... Hence Elway, hence Cutler, hence Stafford (to LA). You’re running the boot action, you’re moving the pocket. Not every time is the QB going to get his feet set, and when you have a QB who can throw the ball 30 yards down field with high RPMs on a dime off his back foot... that’s special for the offense. 

Anyway, I’m not trying to convince you to like or dislike one way or another. These guys are all really good prospects, but I just get the sense that Fields is being made out to be a more superior prospect than he is

 

  • Post of the Week 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, football guy said:

Totally agree with arm talent being highly important to me. I like guys with unique arm talent, hence why I see Mac Jones as a 2nd round—Andy Dalton-level prospect. But that makes me question how do you go by this and have Fields rated higher than Wilson? You cite that you don’t see Wilson’s arm at that “elite” level, which I strongly oppose. It may not be as powerful as Mahomes’ or nfl-Rodgers’ (his arm wasn’t as live at Cal), but everything else is there and he’s superior in some areas than other (specifically looseness, arm angles, and velocity). Also think about what you’re saying: arm talent. Not pure arm strength/power. There’s a lot that goes into that... hand speed, snap speed, release/delivery, throw slots/angles, flexibility, touch, velocity/zip, ball placement, explosiveness and throw power/how far can you throw it. 

You cite QBs with “quick releases” who aren’t very good. Is it because their release or is it because they’re missing other factors that go on to define arm talent (I.e. strength, hand quickness, touch...). Otherwise understandable, but let’s move on. 

Now look at Fields. By your comps and by Fields’ tape, he does not have special arm talent. Strong arm no doubt, but no more powerful than Zach’s arm (which shows signs of even more power in the limited times he’s actually stepped through his throws/torqued his hips... right now he’s “all arm”). Fields is a body thrower. Plenty of arm, but is it special? No... and that’s not a criticism, but he doesn’t have any of the qualities that some of the QBs you mentioned. All those guys generate their throws from their arm/shoulder/torso/obliques, hence their unique ability to throw outside of structure... Fields struggles outside of structure because his throws are generated through his entire body, most importantly hips/legs... when the pocket is clean and his feet are set, he can drive the ball with great zip and incredible accuracy. He uses his entire stride, which is how you’re supposed to do it and is the case for most pocket passers. However, this also explains why the NFL has shifted towards guys who can move and throw off-platform or escape and make plays outside of structure... guys who do all their work from the pocket and lack the consistent ability to throw off-platform tend to struggle in the face of a pass rush more because the disruption screws up their mechanics, which results in inaccuracy and mistakes (sound familiar?)... when throwing on the run Fields tends to hitch down a gear and then throws flat-footed, which also led to mistakes; it’s just not as natural for him right now. He’s got some Cam Newton-Dak Prescott in him; both can run and have great builds, but despite being able to run, they aren’t natural throwing on the run... he’s a better thrower than Cam (maybe not as powerful of an arm but overall better talent and more accurate), and he’s more like Dak from a mechanics/throwing style/accuracy standpoint. Great prospect, but if you’re going on pure arm talent I don’t see why he’d be your guy. 

So far if I’m reading you correctly, you value QBs who can throw with elite “power”—in which case I’m confused why you’re not Trey Lance > Justin Fields (removing Wilson from the equation). In any event, I don’t think you’re fully grasping the Shanahan offense with all due respect. Quick release is just one factor of many. Doesn’t have to have a quick release, every coach just prefers it regardless of scheme. I understand your saying that off-platform throwing is not a necessity because you’re correct it’s not; instead you simply need to be athletic enough to throw on the move, which Fields should be able to develop. But if you want to maximize the scheme it is... Hence Elway, hence Cutler, hence Stafford (to LA). You’re running the boot action, you’re moving the pocket. Not every time is the QB going to get his feet set, and when you have a QB who can throw the ball 30 yards down field with high RPMs on a dime off his back foot... that’s special for the offense. 

Anyway, I’m not trying to convince you to like or dislike one way or another. These guys are all really good prospects, but I just get the sense that Fields is being made out to be a more superior prospect than he is

 

Arm talent is not most important to me.  I like all kinds of QB admittedly with a slight bias towards athletic ones.  However, arm talent, specifically ELITE arm talent, is just the proverbial ace of spades.  When a QB has that elite arm talent, it trumps everything else.  Jeff George and Dan Marino were statues but they had that elite arm talent.  So they would be moved to the top of my list in any class assuming the intangibles are up to par.  In my book arm strength is just a component of arm talent.  Thus, elite arm talent comes with elite arm strength.  A large part of what allows Mahomes, Stafford, Rodgers...etc. to get away with the throws they make in the NFL is that power you concede Wilson lacks.  Darnold has really good arm talent too and lacks power.  As a result his heart and mind ends up writing checks that his arm can’t cash.  I see a lot of NFL interceptable throws on Wilson’s tape.  Many of his dimes and easily be considered 50/50 balls.  As a Jets fan I pray I’m wrong but I can’t  deny what I see for the sake of getting in line.

Once I the elite arm is out of the equation, I value the best combination of traits as I said.  To me that’s Fields. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, legler82 said:

Arm talent is not most important to me.  I like all kinds of QB admittedly with a slight bias towards athletic ones.  However, arm talent, specifically ELITE arm talent, is just the proverbial ace of spades.  When a QB has that elite arm talent, it trumps everything else.  Jeff George and Dan Marino were statues but they had that elite arm talent.  So they would be moved to the top of my list in any class assuming the intangibles are up to par.  In my book arm strength is just a component of arm talent.  Thus, elite arm talent comes with elite arm strength.  A large part of what allows Mahomes, Stafford, Rodgers...etc. to get away with the throws they make in the NFL is that power you concede Wilson lacks.  Darnold has really good arm talent too and lacks power.  As a result his heart and mind ends up writing checks that his arm can’t cash.  I see a lot of NFL interceptable throws on Wilson’s tape.  Many of his dimes and easily be considered 50/50 balls.  As a Jets fan I pray I’m wrong but I can’t  deny what I see for the sake of getting in line.

Once I the elite arm is out of the equation, I value the best combination of traits as I said.  To me that’s Fields. 

Wilson has elite arm talent by any definition. And I’d love to see some examples of the many Interceptable balls you see on tape 

  • Upvote 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, QB1 said:

Wilson has elite arm talent by any definition. And I’d love to see some examples of the many Interceptable balls you see on tape 

Any except my definition I guess.  Providing examples is pointless to Wilson super fans as they would probably see it differently which is fine.  That’s the beauty of perspective;  we all don’t have to share them.  If you are really pressed, JT O’Sullivan has expressed similar concerns in questioning “dime or jump ball” in his Wilson vids.  Anyway, time will ultimately settle this QB debate as it did for the 2017 & 2018 class.  I’m willing to wait.

  • Upvote 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, legler82 said:

Arm talent is not most important to me.  I like all kinds of QB admittedly with a slight bias towards athletic ones.  However, arm talent, specifically ELITE arm talent, is just the proverbial ace of spades.  When a QB has that elite arm talent, it trumps everything else.  Jeff George and Dan Marino were statues but they had that elite arm talent.  So they would be moved to the top of my list in any class assuming the intangibles are up to par.  In my book arm strength is just a component of arm talent.  Thus, elite arm talent comes with elite arm strength.  A large part of what allows Mahomes, Stafford, Rodgers...etc. to get away with the throws they make in the NFL is that power you concede Wilson lacks.  Darnold has really good arm talent too and lacks power.  As a result his heart and mind ends up writing checks that his arm can’t cash.  I see a lot of NFL interceptable throws on Wilson’s tape.  Many of his dimes and easily be considered 50/50 balls.  As a Jets fan I pray I’m wrong but I can’t  deny what I see for the sake of getting in line.

Once I the elite arm is out of the equation, I value the best combination of traits as I said.  To me that’s Fields. 

I do concede that it's not as powerful as Mahomes, Stafford, Rodgers, or Cutler when he was in the league, but that's not to say he isn't right there. I think he comes into the league with a top 8 arm in terms of arm strength - right there with Kyler Murray. I've never seen him look like he's trying hard to make a throw. It looks "effortless", and I think it will continue to get stronger as he learns to clean up his footwork and use his core when throwing from within the pocket. I do see the YOLO/hospital balls, but I saw more examples of him identifying the safe spots in the defense and throwing it/putting it in places only his guy could get it. I think he has a livelier arm than Darnold, and I think you're onto something that they are similar in the sense that both he and Darnold make some throws that aren't as powerful as they can be, but that has everything to do with the mechanics - especially with Darnold. Darnold has a much better arm than he shows because he's all over the place with his mechanics; I think we'll see his real arm this year.

I guess I just disagree with your assessment of Wilson. He's more of a natural thrower than Darnold, but yes, he too put himself in situations where being fancy (fading away, throwing off his back foot) led to losing power on some throws, but more often than not I'd argue that he ripped the ball into some really incredible windows, and when he drives the ball it's something special. I'll find some clips and post examples. Also haven't found a single person around the game who has said he doesn't have special arm talent, and he has everything else you really look for on the NFL level. I was worried about the captain thing, but now that I know it had to do with his families' political preferences and insane film study habits/private sessions with the coaches (kind of made him seem like a suck up) I'm not worried there; his teammates love playing with him and guys went out of their way to apologize for not voting for him in the first place (apparently some felt it would be sending the wrong message to vote him amidst racial injustice/covid pandemic as his parents are proud Trump supports... Zach himself being apolitical)... once you get to the NFL it's all about work habits and what you do on the field, so he'll be fine there. He does so many other things at an elite level as well, the list goes on. That said, I think he needs to be developed and coddled early on, and by far my biggest concern has everything to do with pass rush. In the limited amounts of plays he's faced vs. a rush he was lights out, but that's not enough for a consensus; he had an elite OL in his Jr. year and I think the LOC argument holds weight as it relates to the opposing pass rush rather than coverage (his insane level of tight window throws makeup for that). Zach was kept cleaner in 2020 than he'll ever be in the NFL, so personally, I would rather sit him for a few games as he adjusts to the speed of the game, pass rush, and studies complex defenses before throwing him in (although I know this won't happen). Getting hit too much can really affect a player, and with his lean frame, I think the Jets need to be extra careful to bring him along slowly and have him master the pass rush (which he can, others like him with similar talent have i.e. Rodgers) by picking and choosing a few plays a week to allow him to face the blitz; expose him to pass rush but not in a way where he'll get hurt. If they can concur that, he'll be a star. 

 

Would love to know what you see in Fields that I haven't already mentioned because not many on here have truly elaborated why they like him at length the way you've elaborated so far

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, football guy said:

I do concede that it's not as powerful as Mahomes, Stafford, Rodgers, or Cutler when he was in the league, but that's not to say he isn't right there. I think he comes into the league with a top 8 arm in terms of arm strength - right there with Kyler Murray. I've never seen him look like he's trying hard to make a throw. It looks "effortless", and I think it will continue to get stronger as he learns to clean up his footwork and use his core when throwing from within the pocket. I do see the YOLO/hospital balls, but I saw more examples of him identifying the safe spots in the defense and throwing it/putting it in places only his guy could get it. I think he has a livelier arm than Darnold, and I think you're onto something that they are similar in the sense that both he and Darnold make some throws that aren't as powerful as they can be, but that has everything to do with the mechanics - especially with Darnold. Darnold has a much better arm than he shows because he's all over the place with his mechanics; I think we'll see his real arm this year.

I guess I just disagree with your assessment of Wilson. He's more of a natural thrower than Darnold, but yes, he too put himself in situations where being fancy (fading away, throwing off his back foot) led to losing power on some throws, but more often than not I'd argue that he ripped the ball into some really incredible windows, and when he drives the ball it's something special. I'll find some clips and post examples. Also haven't found a single person around the game who has said he doesn't have special arm talent, and he has everything else you really look for on the NFL level. I was worried about the captain thing, but now that I know it had to do with his families' political preferences and insane film study habits (kind of made him seem like a suck up) I'm not worried there; his teammates love playing with him and guys went out of their way to apologize for not voting for him in the first place (apparently some felt it would be sending the wrong message to vote him amidst racial injustice/covid pandemic as his parents are proud Trump supports... Zach himself being apolitical)... once you get to the NFL it's all about work habits and what you do on the field, so he'll be fine there. He does so many other things at an elite level as well, the list goes on. That said, I think he needs to be developed and coddled early on, and by far my biggest concern has everything to do with pass rush. In the limited amounts of plays he's faced vs. a rush he was lights out, but that's not enough for a consensus; he had an elite OL in his Jr. year and I think the LOC argument holds weight as it relates to the opposing pass rush rather than coverage (his insane level of tight window throws makeup for that). Zach was kept cleaner in 2020 than he'll ever be in the NFL, so personally, I would rather sit him for a few games as he adjusts to the speed of the game, pass rush, and studies complex defenses before throwing him in (although I know this won't happen). Getting hit too much can really affect a player, and with his lean frame, I think the Jets need to be extra careful to bring him along slowly and have him master the pass rush (which he can, others like him with similar talent have i.e. Rodgers) by picking and choosing a few plays a week to allow him to face the blitz; expose him to pass rush but not in a way where he'll get hurt. If they can concur that, he'll be a star. 

 

Would love to know what you see in Fields that I haven't already mentioned because not many on here have truly elaborated why they like him at length the way you've elaborated so far

This video does a great job articulating my position on why Fields is my top QB in this class despite some of his flaws.

 

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, legler82 said:

This video does a great job articulating my position on why Fields is my top QB in this class despite some of his flaws.

 

I'm sorry, but this is a puff piece lol. The narrator's 30 seconds contained about 4 falsehoods. I'm sure this is every video out there (after all the goal shouldn't be to knock the player, rather, constructively critique them), but this is why I just watch every play for myself:

(Trey Lance are individual games only, but available)

If you have time, highly recommend going through these and jot your own notes. Great exercise. 

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, legler82 said:

This video does a great job articulating my position on why Fields is my top QB in this class despite some of his flaws.

 

"While his reads were slow and there is work to be done on his anticipation"

They guy says this in the first minute. 

This to me is a GIGANTIC red flag and by itself puts Fields behind Wilson who is not slow and does throw consistently with anticipation.

QBs do not necessarily get better at those two elements. Darnold never did.

Coupled with the fact that Wilson played under  center in a pro offense, is fantastic at play action, has a faster release, better touch and a bigger arm, not sure how people are so excited about Fields over Wilson.

In terms of the arm thing, Wilson throws balls at the best speed for each throw. He does not try and throw a fastball on every throw.

If you asked Fields and Wilson to throw it as far as they could Wilson would win. The ball explodes off his hands. Just a completely different thing compared to Fields. 

  • Upvote 1
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

"While his reads were slow and there is work to be done on his anticipation"

They guy says this in the first minute. 

This to me is a GIGANTIC red flag and by itself puts Fields behind Wilson who is not slow and does throw consistently with anticipation.

QBs do not necessarily get better at those two elements. Darnold never did.

Coupled with the fact that Wilson played under  center in a pro offense, is fantastic at play action, has a faster release, better touch and a bigger arm, not sure how people are so excited about Fields over Wilson.

In terms of the arm thing, Wilson throws balls at the best speed for each throw. He does not try and throw a fastball on every throw.

If you asked Fields and Wilson to throw it as far as they could Wilson would win. The ball explodes off his hands. Just a completely different thing compared to Fields. 

We can revisit this Wilson and Fields debate in 2-3 years.  I had these futile debates on Jets message boards in 2017 & 2018 about Mahomes and Allen respectively.  I’m sure I sounded crazy to folks then too.  You are not going to change my mind and have no interest in changing yours.  Time will settle this.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

"While his reads were slow and there is work to be done on his anticipation"

They guy says this in the first minute. 

This to me is a GIGANTIC red flag and by itself puts Fields behind Wilson who is not slow and does throw consistently with anticipation.

QBs do not necessarily get better at those two elements. Darnold never did.

Coupled with the fact that Wilson played under  center in a pro offense, is fantastic at play action, has a faster release, better touch and a bigger arm, not sure how people are so excited about Fields over Wilson.

In terms of the arm thing, Wilson throws balls at the best speed for each throw. He does not try and throw a fastball on every throw.

If you asked Fields and Wilson to throw it as far as they could Wilson would win. The ball explodes off his hands. Just a completely different thing compared to Fields. 

Agreed with a lot of this, but even so this guy clearly tries hard to spin QBs in such a positive light. As far as it being a gigantic red flag, it's something to keep in mind depending on what offense you run and it's why I keep shouting that he's not a good idea for the Jets. We can't afford to sit him for a year or 2, and that's what it's going to take him. If you run an "Air" E-P, you're less concerned with it in the short-term. The reads will be dictated to him and the more he plays, the faster he'll get. I think he does have some natural feel anticipating the deep ball, it's the intermediate stuff he needs work on. To me all of that is irrelevant because personally I'm taking Wilson #1 regardless of scheme. I just feel like if you can keep him clean/teach him to keep himself clean, you've got a surefire QB. Then again I thought the same with Sam, but I do think this guy's natural throwing ability/processing is superior, whereas Darnold's escapability/toughness are superior. Pretty even in making plays outside of structure with Darnold being a little more talented and Zach being a little more safer. 

Anyway, I can't watch these videos lol. You need to watch all the plays for yourself... best way. This guy just has a script: offer puffery and then a slight criticism. There's no way you can love every player the way this guy does 

Here's Wilson: 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, legler82 said:

We can revisit this Wilson and Fields debate in 2-3 years.  I had these futile debates on Jets message boards in 2017 & 2018 about Mahomes and Allen respectively.  I’m sure I sounded crazy to folks then too.  You are not going to change my mind and have no interest in changing yours.  Time will settle this.

So you're basically saying you're giving a gut feeling without providing any reasoning why? 

Hence why I'll ask again: you seem to want to parade the guys you were right on. Who were you wrong on? Can you identify why? 

Like I get it. You have a gut feeling. You have a taste. You may not be able to explain why. It could be as simple as you like blondes better than brunettes. But don't come all this way and then not elaborate what you like/dislike about prospects. Just seems to me you walked yourself in a few circle citing certain QBs who have much more similarities to Wilson/share very little with Fields... 

It's why I've said it a few times in here, and while it's been taken the wrong way I mean it in a respectful way: if you like Fields because he looks good in a uniform, or played at OSU, or ran a fast 40, or you fell in love with him during the clemson game - screw it that's your right to feel that way. But I just wish fans on this site (not in particular you, but in general), wouldn't make such affirmative statements without backing them up or elaborating why or admitting the reasoning... maybe that's just 2021 culture. I know I speak with conviction but I also back it up with a nauseating amount of dialogue and analysis. 

Anyway, good talk. Hope you reconsider and share some thoughts on Fields... always open to new perspectives 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, football guy said:

... maybe that's just 2021 culture. 

Exactly. If you aren’t willing to spend hours on a dissertation to convince the strange man on the internet that your favorite draft prospect will be good, well, that’s just indicative of the larger societal problems we face nowadays. I blame Migos.  

  • Upvote 3
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, football guy said:

So you're basically saying you're giving a gut feeling without providing any reasoning why? 

Hence why I'll ask again: you seem to want to parade the guys you were right on. Who were you wrong on? Can you identify why? 

Like I get it. You have a gut feeling. You have a taste. You may not be able to explain why. It could be as simple as you like blondes better than brunettes. But don't come all this way and then not elaborate what you like/dislike about prospects. Just seems to me you walked yourself in a few circle citing certain QBs who have much more similarities to Wilson/share very little with Fields... 

It's why I've said it a few times in here, and while it's been taken the wrong way I mean it in a respectful way: if you like Fields because he looks good in a uniform, or played at OSU, or ran a fast 40, or you fell in love with him during the clemson game - screw it that's your right to feel that way. But I just wish fans on this site (not in particular you, but in general), wouldn't make such affirmative statements without backing them up or elaborating why or admitting the reasoning... maybe that's just 2021 culture. I know I speak with conviction but I also back it up with a nauseating amount of dialogue and analysis. 

Anyway, good talk. Hope you reconsider and share some thoughts on Fields... always open to new perspectives 

 

In terms of 1st rounders I guess I was wrong about Mariota and Wentz but they would probably be still be my top QBs in their respective classes if I had to do it all over again.  Their careers are still not over too.

I’ve had a ton of “misses” if you want to call it that beyond the 1st round.  Brissett, Stidham, Driskel...etc. They were my mid to late round sleepers so the chances of them earning & keeping starting jobs were always slim but I liked them a lot coming out in terms of value and still like them.  As I stated if I have a type it’s skewed towards athleticism unless the arm talent is other worldly.  No one can convince Wilson’s is that.  Sorry.

We don’t value and/or are concerned about the same things.  What are essentials to you (i.e., quick release, off platform, varied arm angles...etc.) are nice to haves for me.  What are red flags to you are yellow flags to me.  For example, the lack of anticipation and locking on to first reads. Note those were alleged  “red flags” for Herbert and Allen (see attachments).  So far it seems like it may not have been as big an issue as some evaluators thought.  Like those guys I feel Fields is talented enough and has shown enough flashes of doing those things that I can project that will improve with development.  

I don’t know how much more I can articulate my thoughts on this topic for you to be satisfied.

A3BD83C8-E569-4F5A-B567-3F825C718AF6.jpeg

ED72F24F-64EE-47FB-9088-2ECB07D86711.jpeg

83B26AB7-6B82-4560-A0CE-68CBE673B7F8.jpeg

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, long time suffering Jets f said:

Wilson may very well end up being the better QB. What concerns me is will he be able to hold up in the NFL with his lean frame. Yes I prefer Fields, but I’ll be OK if we take Wilson but we better go OL at #23 if that’s the case.

 

 

Isn't the guy with the most passing yards in NFL history only 6' 0" and 208 lbs.?

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, legler82 said:

Arm talent is not most important to me.  I like all kinds of QB admittedly with a slight bias towards athletic ones.  However, arm talent, specifically ELITE arm talent, is just the proverbial ace of spades.  When a QB has that elite arm talent, it trumps everything else.  Jeff George and Dan Marino were statues but they had that elite arm talent.  So they would be moved to the top of my list in any class assuming the intangibles are up to par.  In my book arm strength is just a component of arm talent.  Thus, elite arm talent comes with elite arm strength.  A large part of what allows Mahomes, Stafford, Rodgers...etc. to get away with the throws they make in the NFL is that power you concede Wilson lacks.  Darnold has really good arm talent too and lacks power.  As a result his heart and mind ends up writing checks that his arm can’t cash.  I see a lot of NFL interceptable throws on Wilson’s tape.  Many of his dimes and easily be considered 50/50 balls.  As a Jets fan I pray I’m wrong but I can’t  deny what I see for the sake of getting in line.

Once I the elite arm is out of the equation, I value the best combination of traits as I said.  To me that’s Fields. 

Fields' arm may be stronger than Wilson's but the consistent velocity isn't even close. A lot of balls sail on Fields because his mechanics are pretty awful, his release is very strained when he has to load up whereas for Wilson it's just effortless. I'm sure if they both threw it as far as they could Fields may have him beat but in terms of who can fit it into tight windows consistently Wilson is absolutely league's ahead. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, legler82 said:

In terms of 1st rounders I guess I was wrong about Mariota and Wentz but they would probably be still be my top QBs in their respective classes if I had to do it all over again.  Their careers are still not over too.

I’ve had a ton of “misses” if you want to call it that beyond the 1st round.  Brissett, Stidham, Driskel...etc. They were my mid to late round sleepers so the chances of them earning & keeping starting jobs were always slim but I liked them a lot coming out in terms of value and still like them.  As I stated if I have a type it’s skewed towards athleticism unless the arm talent is other worldly.  No one can convince Wilson’s is that.  Sorry.

We don’t value and/or are concerned about the same things.  What are essentials to you (i.e., quick release, off platform, varied arm angles...etc.) are nice to haves for me.  What are red flags to you are yellow flags to me.  For example, the lack of anticipation and locking on to first reads. Note those were alleged  “red flags” for Herbert and Allen (see attachments).  So far it seems like it may not have been as big an issue as some evaluators thought.  Like those guys I feel Fields is talented enough and has shown enough flashes of doing those things that I can project that will improve with development.  

I don’t know how much more I can articulate my thoughts on this topic for you to be satisfied.

A3BD83C8-E569-4F5A-B567-3F825C718AF6.jpeg

ED72F24F-64EE-47FB-9088-2ECB07D86711.jpeg

83B26AB7-6B82-4560-A0CE-68CBE673B7F8.jpeg

Now do Fields...

  • Haha 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, legler82 said:

As NFLN was trying to rationalize Casserly mocking Fields at 24 in his latest mock the following graphic came up: 

F212B342-6B27-445E-9645-5698B969D99D.jpeg

Should noted that Fields played in the least amount of games so his turnover worthy plays should be higher.

 

*edit* - disregard that is career not this past year. Wilson 30 games, Fields 34 games, Lawrence 35 games.

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Charlie Casserole is a cheesy smelling collection of skin tags and liver spots.

I almost barfed and I didn't eat anything yet. 🤢 His rug is only a notch above Hank Stram's, but that's immaterial.

EDIT & P.S.: Just for the hell of it I just put 'Hank Stram' in the search bar. The first thing that came up was 'Hank Stram wig', LMAO.

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Arm talent should not even be a discussion ... Wilson is in a different stratosphere. Just as Fields would win a footrace easily.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

Fat and Skinny had a race up and down the pillowcase. Fat fell down and broke his face, and Skinny won the race

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...