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7 hours ago, football guy said:

I do concede that it's not as powerful as Mahomes, Stafford, Rodgers, or Cutler when he was in the league, but that's not to say he isn't right there. I think he comes into the league with a top 8 arm in terms of arm strength - right there with Kyler Murray. I've never seen him look like he's trying hard to make a throw. It looks "effortless", and I think it will continue to get stronger as he learns to clean up his footwork and use his core when throwing from within the pocket. I do see the YOLO/hospital balls, but I saw more examples of him identifying the safe spots in the defense and throwing it/putting it in places only his guy could get it. I think he has a livelier arm than Darnold, and I think you're onto something that they are similar in the sense that both he and Darnold make some throws that aren't as powerful as they can be, but that has everything to do with the mechanics - especially with Darnold. Darnold has a much better arm than he shows because he's all over the place with his mechanics; I think we'll see his real arm this year.

I guess I just disagree with your assessment of Wilson. He's more of a natural thrower than Darnold, but yes, he too put himself in situations where being fancy (fading away, throwing off his back foot) led to losing power on some throws, but more often than not I'd argue that he ripped the ball into some really incredible windows, and when he drives the ball it's something special. I'll find some clips and post examples. Also haven't found a single person around the game who has said he doesn't have special arm talent, and he has everything else you really look for on the NFL level. I was worried about the captain thing, but now that I know it had to do with his families' political preferences and insane film study habits/private sessions with the coaches (kind of made him seem like a suck up) I'm not worried there; his teammates love playing with him and guys went out of their way to apologize for not voting for him in the first place (apparently some felt it would be sending the wrong message to vote him amidst racial injustice/covid pandemic as his parents are proud Trump supports... Zach himself being apolitical)... once you get to the NFL it's all about work habits and what you do on the field, so he'll be fine there. He does so many other things at an elite level as well, the list goes on. That said, I think he needs to be developed and coddled early on, and by far my biggest concern has everything to do with pass rush. In the limited amounts of plays he's faced vs. a rush he was lights out, but that's not enough for a consensus; he had an elite OL in his Jr. year and I think the LOC argument holds weight as it relates to the opposing pass rush rather than coverage (his insane level of tight window throws makeup for that). Zach was kept cleaner in 2020 than he'll ever be in the NFL, so personally, I would rather sit him for a few games as he adjusts to the speed of the game, pass rush, and studies complex defenses before throwing him in (although I know this won't happen). Getting hit too much can really affect a player, and with his lean frame, I think the Jets need to be extra careful to bring him along slowly and have him master the pass rush (which he can, others like him with similar talent have i.e. Rodgers) by picking and choosing a few plays a week to allow him to face the blitz; expose him to pass rush but not in a way where he'll get hurt. If they can concur that, he'll be a star. 

 

Would love to know what you see in Fields that I haven't already mentioned because not many on here have truly elaborated why they like him at length the way you've elaborated so far

As a fan who isn’t really sure this will be a good situation for a young QB and wanted the Jets to trade out the bold is quite concerning - particularly with the end of that section - and the italics seem extremely challenging at best to accomplish given the end of the bold section (you give the example of Rodgers accomplishing this, but he largely sat for three years and got going on a good team).

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I find it hilarious that off platform throws are now a requirement for top QBs.  In 2017 Mahomes’ off platform brilliance was labeled as “bad mechanics”.  Now we would “like to see a few more examples

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La Canfora saying it’s not for sure Wilson is the pick at 2 is pretty much 100% confirmation that Wilson is for sure the pick at 2

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3 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

Fields' arm may be stronger than Wilson's but the consistent velocity isn't even close. A lot of balls sail on Fields because his mechanics are pretty awful, his release is very strained when he has to load up whereas for Wilson it's just effortless. I'm sure if they both threw it as far as they could Fields may have him beat but in terms of who can fit it into tight windows consistently Wilson is absolutely league's ahead. 

“A lot of balls sail” seems hyperbolic.  Dude led the nation twice in a row air yards while still completing 70% of his passes.  So I guess in between the sailing he is deadly accurate even w/o the benefit of all those CMP% inflating dink and donk passes.

 

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“A lot of balls sail” seems hyperbolic.  Dude led the nation twice in a row air yards while still completing 70% of his passes.  So I guess in between the sailing he is deadly accurate even w/o the benefit of all those CMP% inflating dink and donk passes.
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Wilson is right behind him and if you watch them both... there is a difference.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app

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Mangini makes an interesting point in this video, says the 49ers might be pushing the narrative they are taking Jones when they are in fact in love with Fields and don't want the jets to fall in love with fields. Go to the 6th minute of the clip to see what I'm talking about.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, adobolo2 said:

Mangini makes an interesting point in this video, says the 49ers might be pushing the narrative they are taking Jones when they are in fact in love with Fields and don't want the jets to fall in love with fields. Go to the 6th minute of the clip to see what I'm talking about.

 

 

But wouldn't they want the Jets to fall in love with Fields because they also love Wilson?

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1 minute ago, Tranquilo said:

But wouldn't they want the Jets to fall in love with Fields because they also love Wilson?

Perhaps but my guess is they want someone who's more durable, they are supposedly fed up with Jimmy G getting injured regularly and see fields as a great prospect with very little injury history.

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33 minutes ago, derp said:

As a fan who isn’t really sure this will be a good situation for a young QB and wanted the Jets to trade out the bold is quite concerning - particularly with the end of that section - and the italics seem extremely challenging at best to accomplish given the end of the bold section (you give the example of Rodgers accomplishing this, but he largely sat for three years and got going on a good team).

Totally agree. It's why I have said that while I acknowledge Zach Wilson is by far my favorite prospect since Mahomes (who I was also weary of for the Jets due to their ability to develop him/surround him with talent), I am cognizant of the flaws/risk. QB is one of 53 + a coaching staff + front office. It's the most important job of all of them hence understandably the eagerness to address it, but more often than not, you need a great infrastructure to support a QB... Peyton Manning is the exception to the rule. 

In an ideal world, you give the first time head coach, first time coordinators, and the rest of the staff time to settle in and establish themselves in a new organization... time to implement a culture, schemes, and a "SOP" (standard operating procedure). You also use this time to build up positions that directly impact the QB (whether it be offensive line/skill positions to help the QB, or defensive line to hurt the opposing QB). If you've ever gotten a new job or worked for a new company, some of this will make sense... its very rare to hit the ground running if you work at a company that requires teamwork and collaboration. Then, once you've had a year to feel it out and get comfortable, focus on the QB. Admittedly the world isn't ideal, but what made things specifically unique for the Jets was that they had Sam Darnold. He was a really good hedge; an ultra-talented 23 year old kid with all the qualities you look for in a player who was held back by past incompetency. So while I understand why the Jets made the trade, there was a reason so many inside the organization thought this to be a great strategy, even if Wilson is loved. It's not like this is a marriage; it's not taboo to really like 2 QBs (the way the fans make it)... ultimately they decided fresh start with Zach was the way to go. 

 

What Zach enters which Darnold didn't have: a more stable situation. The talent base will be better. The coaching will be better and if it somehow was not better from a play-calling standpoint, at the very least more adaptable and cognizant of player development (whereas Gase was stubborn and robotic, enforcing his way only). The front office is entrenched. All of those things are good. But while Zach is really smart and really talented and the quickest processor in the draft, we have no idea how adversity will impact his confidence. Sure he has a resilient backstory and exudes confidence on the field, but so did Darnold. How will he handle the inevitable poor decisions/poor timing due to speed adjustments? How will he handle getting hit, both physically and mentally? Those are the areas the Jets must focus on if they want to get this right. Don't ask him to be superman; ask him to be the game manager... you want him to understand the entire playbook and to focus on reading defenses throughout the year... in-game, the coaches should design protections in effort to keep him clean/avoid the pass rush, don't put too much on his plate at once, give him easy high-percentage throws, all while giving him a few reps per game where you let him learn what it's like to call a blitz-beater from within the pocket, or step up in the pocket, or change a few plays based on what he sees in coverage, or make a few of those YOLO double-coverage throws so he can learn from them... all it takes is 10 reps per game like that over the course of a season. Sure, this will likely result in loses, but it's for the betterment of his career/the Jets franchise. Can't be too conservative where you take the game out of his hands entirely... need to give him some freedom so that he's not a robot, but at the same time, you don't want to be too progressive as it could potentially expose him to more issues (whether they be injury or confidence) if he's getting pummeled and making unnecessary of mistakes. 

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2 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

Should noted that Fields played in the least amount of games so his turnover worthy plays should be higher.

 

*edit* - disregard that is career not this past year. Wilson 30 games, Fields 34 games, Lawrence 35 games.

Fields was actually a starter for only 22 games. In 12 of those games (at Georgia), he was a backup.

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21 minutes ago, adobolo2 said:

Mangini makes an interesting point in this video, says the 49ers might be pushing the narrative they are taking Jones when they are in fact in love with Fields and don't want the jets to fall in love with fields. Go to the 6th minute of the clip to see what I'm talking about.

 

 

Magina made a good point 

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40 minutes ago, adobolo2 said:

Mangini makes an interesting point in this video, says the 49ers might be pushing the narrative they are taking Jones when they are in fact in love with Fields and don't want the jets to fall in love with fields. Go to the 6th minute of the clip to see what I'm talking about.

 

 

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8 hours ago, football guy said:

So you're basically saying you're giving a gut feeling without providing any reasoning why? 

Hence why I'll ask again: you seem to want to parade the guys you were right on. Who were you wrong on? Can you identify why? 

Like I get it. You have a gut feeling. You have a taste. You may not be able to explain why. It could be as simple as you like blondes better than brunettes. But don't come all this way and then not elaborate what you like/dislike about prospects. Just seems to me you walked yourself in a few circle citing certain QBs who have much more similarities to Wilson/share very little with Fields... 

It's why I've said it a few times in here, and while it's been taken the wrong way I mean it in a respectful way: if you like Fields because he looks good in a uniform, or played at OSU, or ran a fast 40, or you fell in love with him during the clemson game - screw it that's your right to feel that way. But I just wish fans on this site (not in particular you, but in general), wouldn't make such affirmative statements without backing them up or elaborating why or admitting the reasoning... maybe that's just 2021 culture. I know I speak with conviction but I also back it up with a nauseating amount of dialogue and analysis. 

Anyway, good talk. Hope you reconsider and share some thoughts on Fields... always open to new perspectives 

 

For a guy who was so pro-Sam you changed drastically and in a hurry huh, I wonder why...

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7 minutes ago, Guilhermezmc said:

For a guy who was so pro-Sam you changed drastically and in a hurry huh, I wonder why...

Pretty sure FG was always in favor of drafting a QB if he were running the ship, particularly Wilson.

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1 hour ago, adobolo2 said:

Mangini makes an interesting point in this video, says the 49ers might be pushing the narrative they are taking Jones when they are in fact in love with Fields and don't want the jets to fall in love with fields. Go to the 6th minute of the clip to see what I'm talking about.

 

 

Lol. It's like the Jets are confident in their answer but they see the super smart kid next to them putting down a different answer and it's throwing them off. 

"Answer B?!....well shoot, maybe I should I do that"

s reactions mr GIF

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11 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Pretty sure FG was always in favor of drafting a QB if he were running the ship, particularly Wilson.

Really? Maybe I'm dumb or something but the guy always talked about trading it down, trusting JD and the new system. 

I know that was what he was told the front office was leaning to do, but he seemed pretty aboard of that boat, and now that the tables have turned he is the guy banging on the table for ZW, just a little odd to me.

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12 minutes ago, Guilhermezmc said:

Really? Maybe I'm dumb or something but the guy always talked about trading it down, trusting JD and the new system. 

I know that was what he was told the front office was leaning to do, but he seemed pretty aboard of that boat, and now that the tables have turned he is the guy banging on the table for ZW, just a little odd to me.

When you argued people down that you are correct because of some “inside connections” and you’re proven wrong time and time again.... Guess it becomes better to just blow with the wind 🤷‍♂️

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1 hour ago, Guilhermezmc said:

For a guy who was so pro-Sam you changed drastically and in a hurry huh, I wonder why...

The be fair to him he sat on the fence in the Darnold vs Wilson debate and always said it would he wilson if we traded Darnold. I may not agree with some of his opions but credit where credit is due.

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1 hour ago, Mogglez said:

Pretty sure FG was always in favor of drafting a QB if he were running the ship, particularly Wilson.

Thank you

1 hour ago, Guilhermezmc said:

Really? Maybe I'm dumb or something but the guy always talked about trading it down, trusting JD and the new system. 

I know that was what he was told the front office was leaning to do, but he seemed pretty aboard of that boat, and now that the tables have turned he is the guy banging on the table for ZW, just a little odd to me.

Not trying to be snappy but this is the sh*t that pisses me off lol... people just say things lacking information, and then assume one thing because of a particular stance (thus making an "ass" out of "u-" and- "me"). 

I made it clear dating back to October that I personally thought Wilson was the best QB in the draft. I also made it abundantly clear that the Jets had a process of evaluating the scenarios. I rationed that yes, I think it made a ton of sense to trade down, stack the roster, and build around Sam Darnold because it was a good hedge... he is a 23 year old who has been in the worst situation of any highly drafted QB since David Carr, has the talent to be a very good QB, would likely improve dramatically on the new staff, and if he didn't could re-tackle the QB next year.

Logically, I have said that I would trade down... would've improved the roster around the QB and likely would've resulted in more wins next year. 

Emotionally, I have said that I would take Wilson. 

1 hour ago, oatmeal said:

When you argued people down that you are correct because of some “inside connections” and you’re proven wrong time and time again.... Guess it becomes better to just blow with the wind 🤷‍♂️

I talk down to people who deserve to be talked down to. I truly am sorry that your miserable life was turned upside down when I joined here and began providing information and substance that resulted in you going ignored. I'm sorry that you don't possess the brain capacity to comprehend or produce such dialogue even if you had 10 years to study it. Really can't help you there "oatmeal"

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4 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Wilson is right behind him and if you watch them both... there is a difference.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

I've come to learn that there's a lot of fans out there that don't even watch. They may have the games on in the background, or read articles after-the-fact, but many of them just take someone else's opinion, read stats, and run with it. I'm willing to bet that all the people shouting "Fields" on twitter, in the media, and maybe even guys in here who have yet to watch him for an entire game, let alone every snap.

They can do so by investing less than an hour of their time, but instead, they'd rather stereotype, denigrate, and cast out anyone who can provide a detailed analysis "why" for the sole purpose that it counters their uninformed belief... hence... the social media era. Anyway, for anyone who wants to watch for themselves... 

 

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I was trying to think about this: so Zach Wilson will be helped because we are running the shanny offense. If he will be Aaron Rodgers one day, does he really need a west coast style offense rather than a more gunslinging one? 
 

Also, what offense does lafluer run in greenbay? Wouldn’t that be closer to the offense we see with the Jets? 

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44 minutes ago, football guy said:

Thank you

Not trying to be snappy but this is the sh*t that pisses me off lol... people just say things lacking information, and then assume one thing because of a particular stance (thus making an "ass" out of "u-" and- "me"). 

I made it clear dating back to October that I personally thought Wilson was the best QB in the draft. I also made it abundantly clear that the Jets had a process of evaluating the scenarios. I rationed that yes, I think it made a ton of sense to trade down, stack the roster, and build around Sam Darnold because it was a good hedge... he is a 23 year old who has been in the worst situation of any highly drafted QB since David Carr, has the talent to be a very good QB, would likely improve dramatically on the new staff, and if he didn't could re-tackle the QB next year.

Logically, I have said that I would trade down... would've improved the roster around the QB and likely would've resulted in more wins next year. 

Emotionally, I have said that I would take Wilson. 

I talk down to people who deserve to be talked down to. I truly am sorry that your miserable life was turned upside down when I joined here and began providing information and substance that resulted in you going ignored. I'm sorry that you don't possess the brain capacity to comprehend or produce such dialogue even if you had 10 years to study it. Really can't help you there "oatmeal"

Damn you get agressive really quickly, don't need to stress my man.

I've been studying a lot lately and haven't been able to keep up with this forum, something that caught my eye was your change of stance, that is leading to a lot of heated arguments of Fields Vs Zw  between you and other posters.

Im sure you have your reasons, but having ZW as QB1 in october? That seems a little far fetched to me, especially from a guy who was in the Sam corner until the trade went through. 

Even if that was your opinion you just didn't give me that impression, to me and im sure that from a lot of others here you were a Sam guy.

At the end of the day you don't need to get that mad, i respect your opinion as i appreciate the info that you bring to the forum.

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38 minutes ago, Guilhermezmc said:

Damn you get agressive really quickly, don't need to stress my man.

I've been studying a lot lately and haven't been able to keep up with this forum, something that caught my eye was your change of stance, that is leading to a lot of heated arguments of Fields Vs Zw  between you and other posters.

Im sure you have your reasons, but having ZW as QB1 in october? That seems a little far fetched to me, especially from a guy who was in the Sam corner until the trade went through. 

Even if that was your opinion you just didn't give me that impression, to me and im sure that from a lot of others here you were a Sam guy.

At the end of the day you don't need to get that mad, i respect your opinion as i appreciate the info that you bring to the forum.

Honestly, I find myself not really remembering who's profile is who on here with exception to a select few. Hard to put screennames to internet personality. It has gotten to a point where I ready myself to go on defense assuming its some freak show so I apologize... I've come to learn through the pandemic that I come off much more arrogant in text than IRL- unfortunately I'm not going to change this late in the game

Anyway, correction: November 13. I have felt Lawrence was overrated for 2 years now, so part of me was kind of hoping someone else would shine through... (screengrab incoming)

 

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9473C657-18B6-4A21-AEAB-D3E02D5E917B.jpeg

B0D911B1-227A-4ADA-8798-A4F52CDEE647.jpeg

 

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5 hours ago, legler82 said:

“A lot of balls sail” seems hyperbolic.  Dude led the nation twice in a row air yards while still completing 70% of his passes.  So I guess in between the sailing he is deadly accurate even w/o the benefit of all those CMP% inflating dink and donk passes.

 

You misinterpret what I’m saying. I’m not saying he’s inaccurate. Just that his velocity isn’t always as consistent. To be fair this was a knock on Deshaun Watson too and that turned out to he nonsense but just judging by the tape Wilson definitely is more consistent with how quickly the ball gets there. 

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14 hours ago, football guy said:

Honestly, I find myself not really remembering who's profile is who on here with exception to a select few. Hard to put screennames to internet personality. It has gotten to a point where I ready myself to go on defense assuming its some freak show so I apologize... I've come to learn through the pandemic that I come off much more arrogant in text than IRL- unfortunately I'm not going to change this late in the game

Anyway, correction: November 13. I have felt Lawrence was overrated for 2 years now, so part of me was kind of hoping someone else would shine through... (screengrab incoming)

 

D881304F-BB2A-47B9-A7FD-AA4885855350.jpeg

DB3D6060-183C-47C6-84C4-DC55F349DE32.jpeg

9473C657-18B6-4A21-AEAB-D3E02D5E917B.jpeg

B0D911B1-227A-4ADA-8798-A4F52CDEE647.jpeg

 

Wilson had to deal with so much adversity playing against Coast Guard

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19 hours ago, adobolo2 said:

Mangini makes an interesting point in this video, says the 49ers might be pushing the narrative they are taking Jones when they are in fact in love with Fields and don't want the jets to fall in love with fields. Go to the 6th minute of the clip to see what I'm talking about.

 

 

Remember when Mangina wouldn’t tell the media which leg Jonathan Vilma injured?

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6 hours ago, Dunnie said:

wHO ARE THESE PEOPLE

 

One is a former professional scout, for I believe it was the Eagles and the other was a professional journalist I believe who followed the 49er's..

I try to follow "experts" of other teams so that I can avoid group speak for the Jets... 

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