For those still wishing for Fields, get in here! We're going to his proday tomorrow again

[kdels62]

4 minutes ago, legler82 said:

You are real loose with your definition of elite arm talent.

Them guys can make all the Zach Wilson throws. 

[legler82]

4 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

I hated Darnold. But that has nothing to do with this analysis. Especially since it’s possible that Fields is maxed out, showing decline in his Junior year compared to his Sophomore year kind of like Darnold.... 

(I don’t believe Fields is Darnold, I’m just saying that you made a bad point).

These receipts are pure gold.

[kdels62]

Just now, legler82 said:

These receipts are pure gold.

So you don’t have a point? 

[legler82]

28 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Them guys can make all the Zach Wilson throws. 

I would disagree.  I’m not even Zach Wilson fan and would say that a couple of those guys couldn’t make some of the throws Zach Wilson makes accurately on a consistent basis.  On the same token there are guys listed that can make throws Zach can’t. 

[legler82]

2 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

So you don’t have a point? 

I made it. 

[kdels62]

7 minutes ago, legler82 said:

I made it. 

About Allen and Darnold? What’s the point? Are you equating them to Wilson and Fields? 

Sorry I’m a bit distracted.

[Tranquilo]

2 hours ago, legler82 said:

That’s really good but I’ve seen special (Mahomes Texas Tech); that ain’t it.  Also it’s the balls that die on him and don’t make the highlight reel that makes say folks overrate his arm talent.  

You don’t have to strawman people’s position on Wilson. No one is saying he’s going to be Mahomes. Guess what? He’s not going to be the best QB ever. But he should be really good. 

[legler82]

20 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

About Allen and Darnold? What’s the point? Are you equating them to Wilson and Fields? 

Sorry I’m a bit distracted.

You made a wise crack about Fields landing in NE a division rival.  I made the parallel to 2018 when some Jets fans were cracking jokes about Josh Allen landing with another division rival.  It wasn’t a player to player compare but situational comparison.

[legler82]

23 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

You don’t have to strawman people’s position on Wilson. No one is saying he’s going to be Mahomes. Guess what? He’s not going to be the best QB ever. But he should be really good. 

What straw man?  I’m giving you my opinion just like you gave me yours.  I’m not the one calling you blind just because we disagree.  You Wilson dudes are both super sensitive while being super aggressive at the same time.  

[kdels62]

6 minutes ago, legler82 said:

You made a wise crack about Fields landing in NE a division rival.  I made the parallel to 2018 when some Jets fans were cracking jokes about Josh Allen landing with another division rival.  It wasn’t a player to player compare but situational comparison.

Ah I gotcha. Eh 10 times out of 10 I’d still go back and gloat about Josh Allen going to the Bills. He’s the outlier of outliers and I don’t think his performance improvement can ever be duplicated. 

Fields would be scary to have to reckon with because he’s toolsy and has production.  JiF is doing a negative Jets fan, worst case scenario thing so I figured I’d poke him a little. 

I do stand by the fact that early on he’s gonna continue to struggle against the blitz like he did in 2020.

[legler82]

6 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Ah I gotcha. Eh 10 times out of 10 I’d still go back and gloat about Josh Allen going to the Bills. He’s the outlier of outliers and I don’t think his performance improvement can ever be duplicated. 

Fields would be scary to have to reckon with because he’s toolsy and has production.  JiF is doing a negative Jets fan, worst case scenario thing so I figured I’d poke him a little. 

I do stand by the fact that early on he’s gonna continue to struggle against the blitz like he did in 2020.

I wasn’t gloating about Allen as I’m an upside guy.  He had the most upside in that QB class IMO.  I didn’t want him in the division in case that upside was realized.  Same with Fields. Tua I’m not scared of. 

[JetFreak89]

3 minutes ago, legler82 said:

I wasn’t gloating about Allen as I’m an upside guy.  He had the most upside in that QB class IMO.  I didn’t want him in the division in case that upside was realized.  Same with Fields. Tua I’m not scared of. 

Do you guys really need two threads to go back and forth on? Like do you have to constantly go back and forth to get answers from the same posters to different posts because that sounds exhausting. 

[kdels62]

Just now, JetFreak89 said:

Do you guys really need two threads to go back and forth on? Like do you have to constantly go back and forth to get answers from the same posters to different posts because that sounds exhausting. 

Yes

[legler82]

Just now, JetFreak89 said:

Do you guys really need two threads to go back and forth on? Like do you have to constantly go back and forth to get answers from the same posters to different posts because that sounds exhausting. 

I’m not exhausted.  If you are, I suggested you close your browser and go take a nap.

[maury77]

2 hours ago, JiF said:

[derp]

3 hours ago, jvill 51 said:

La Canfora saying it’s not for sure Wilson is the pick at 2 is pretty much 100% confirmation that Wilson is for sure the pick at 2

Yeah this is more of a backbreaker for the Fields crew than Douglas saying Young was connected at BYU after being asked about Young calling Wilson to the Jets.

[JohnnyLV]

4 hours ago, Lith said:

From the linked column:

Consider the fact that the narrative that the Jets were absolutely, positively going to take Wilson began well before the quarterback evaluation process was complete. In fact, it started to take shape before all of the quarterbacks had even completed their workouts. Now, count me among those who heard from proven, trusted sources, weeks ago, that Wilson was the Jets' guy at that time and they had an eye on him all along … But that doesn't mean they had to make the decision then, and they still don't have to make it now.

Fields looked like a stud last week in his final opportunity to wow teams, he did his work against far tougher competition than the kid from BYU, and as much as there are oh so many people out there trying to tear him down, there are no shortage of teams that totally love the kid and believe he would be the first overall selection in many drafts (just not this one, because of Trevor Lawrence and all). So, again, let's just keep in mind that the Jets are not contractually bound to take Wilson.

"Are we all sure that Wilson is going second?" one longtime AFC executive said. "Is that written in stone somewhere? Seriously, have they come out and said it? Maybe Wilson is the pick, but you can't tell me he is absolutely a better prospect than Fields. We would take Fields there at 2. What if they do take Fields? Then San Francisco takes Wilson. Then New England comes up to 4 and gets Jones. There's no way that could happen?"

Um, doesn't seem totally crazy to me. Not in the least.

Teams have done the unexpected and surprised us before, just when we thought we had them all figured out. It's one of the many things that makes this event so great. And while I get that one could make the case that the Jets have nothing to gain by pulling the okey doke and coming up with an elaborate ruse, well, I would counter by saying what exactly have the Jets done? Are we truly certain of all the things we believe we are certain of?

There is just so so many things that almost definitively point to the Jets taking Wilson it would be way way more shocking than Cleveland taking Mayfield. Even JDs own comments at the press conference and Bree interview leave almost zero doubt. 

Like this

Why was so important for Douglas to see those guys throw live?

“I don’t know how every team approaches a quarterback [evaluation], but I’ve always thought it was a golden rule—you don’t ever take a quarterback until you stand near or next to a guy and watch him throw the football,” Douglas says. “None of the top brass were able to get out to a BYU game this year. There were no all-star games, no combine. You could see Mac Jones at the Senior Bowl. But other than that, your only opportunity to stand there and watch them throw was at a pro day.

He didn't just randomly throw BYU in there.

And this:

And, also, through that period, the Jets’ trainers were trading medical information with other teams’ trainers. The league’s medical combine is actually this week in Indy, and ideally the Jets would’ve liked to have waited for that too, but they got to the point where there wasn’t a pressing need to.

“Even though the box isn’t fully checked,” Douglas says. “We’ve been able to gather a lot more information.”

Fields health has never really been even even a consideration, but Wilson did need to check off that box.

Plus Scheffter is 100% on Wilson, Jeremiah has been 100% on Wilson and is JDs friend, the 49ers trade happened right after Wilson was measured, Steve Young flat out confirmed it and Beck basically did in the King podcast.

But one random exec who likes Fields better is supposed to weigh more than all the other overwhelming evidence

[maury77]

1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

There is just so so many things that almost definitively point to the Jets taking Wilson it would be way way more shocking than Cleveland taking Mayfield. Even JDs own comments at the press conference and Bree interview leave almost zero doubt. 

Like this

Why was so important for Douglas to see those guys throw live?

“I don’t know how every team approaches a quarterback [evaluation], but I’ve always thought it was a golden rule—you don’t ever take a quarterback until you stand near or next to a guy and watch him throw the football,” Douglas says. “None of the top brass were able to get out to a BYU game this year. There were no all-star games, no combine. You could see Mac Jones at the Senior Bowl. But other than that, your only opportunity to stand there and watch them throw was at a pro day.

He didn't just randomly throw BYU in there.

And this:

And, also, through that period, the Jets’ trainers were trading medical information with other teams’ trainers. The league’s medical combine is actually this week in Indy, and ideally the Jets would’ve liked to have waited for that too, but they got to the point where there wasn’t a pressing need to.

“Even though the box isn’t fully checked,” Douglas says. “We’ve been able to gather a lot more information.”

Fields health has never really been even even a consideration, but Wilson did need to check off that box.

Plus Scheffter is 100% on Wilson, Jeremiah has been 100% on Wilson and is JDs friend, the 49ers trade happened right after Wilson was measured, Steve Young flat out confirmed it and Beck basically did in the King podcast.

But one random exec who likes Fields better is supposed to weigh more than all the other overwhelming evidence

[JustInFudge]

2 hours ago, kdels62 said:

Ah I gotcha. Eh 10 times out of 10 I’d still go back and gloat about Josh Allen going to the Bills. He’s the outlier of outliers and I don’t think his performance improvement can ever be duplicated. 

Fields would be scary to have to reckon with because he’s toolsy and has production.  JiF is doing a negative Jets fan, worst case scenario thing so I figured I’d poke him a little. 

I do stand by the fact that early on he’s gonna continue to struggle against the blitz like he did in 2020.

The fact?  lol  

I'd actually argue if necessary, he handles it the best of all of them for a couple of reasons; he's the best athlete of the group so he'll be able to rely on his legs more than anyone else.  He's also the most intelligent of the group so he'll be able to consume more and learn the playbook faster.  He faced the best competition of the group.  I also think an NFL offense will be a welcomed change for Fields.  OSU asked him to basically handle the blitz by himself, so going to a system especially like New England, would actually make his life easier on him as signal caller.

That said, I'd have a bridge QB for anyone not named Lawrence and that is simply based on experience.

 

 

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, JiF said:

The fact?  lol  

I'd actually argue if necessary, he handles it the best of all of them for a couple of reasons; he's the best athlete of the group so he'll be able to rely on his legs more than anyone else.  He's also the most intelligent of the group so he'll be able to consume more and learn the playbook faster.  He faced the best competition of the group.  I also think an NFL offense will be a welcomed change for Fields.  OSU asked him to basically handle the blitz by himself, so going to a system especially like New England, would actually make his life easier on him as signal caller.

That said, I'd have a bridge QB for anyone not named Lawrence and that is simply based on experience.

 

 

Not sure why the Zach-Wilson-is-gawd group would, at all, gloat about Zach Wilson’s chances facing an NFL blitz package vs Justin Fields facing an NFL blitz package, but then again I haven’t watched much Big Sky Conference football, so

[kdels62]

8 minutes ago, JiF said:

The fact?  lol  

I'd actually argue if necessary, he handles it the best of all of them for a couple of reasons; he's the best athlete of the group so he'll be able to rely on his legs more than anyone else.  He's also the most intelligent of the group so he'll be able to consume more and learn the playbook faster.  He faced the best competition of the group.  I also think an NFL offense will be a welcomed change for Fields.  OSU asked him to basically handle the blitz by himself, so going to a system especially like New England, would actually make his life easier on him as signal caller.

That said, I'd have a bridge QB for anyone not named Lawrence and that is simply based on experience.

 

 

It is a fact. The strategy of the teams that made Fields look bad this year was just to blitz him. Inside blitz and see if he has an answer. His response was be big and athletic. He’s gonna need more than that at the next level and he hasn’t shown the toolset yet. It could be the fault of OSU entirely but for now it is unknown if he will learn how to deal with the blitz. 

I don’t question Fields’s smarts but you can’t harp on that to translate to on the field processing or understanding a playbook. I’m don’t think he’s at a learning disadvantage, I just can’t claim he’s better at football smarts than the other prospects. Extrapolating football intellect from academic ability isn’t a straight line process. 

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

It is a fact. The strategy of the teams that made Fields look bad this year was just to blitz him. Inside blitz and see if he has an answer. His response was be big and athletic. He’s gonna need more than that at the next level and he hasn’t shown the toolset yet. It could be the fault of OSU entirely but for now it is unknown if he will learn how to deal with the blitz. 

I don’t question Fields’s smarts but you can’t harp on that to translate to on the field processing or understanding a playbook. I’m don’t think he’s at a learning disadvantage, I just can’t claim he’s better at football smarts than the other prospects. Extrapolating football intellect from academic ability isn’t a straight line process. 

[kdels62]

11 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Not sure why the Zach-Wilson-is-gawd group would, at all, gloat about Zach Wilson’s chances facing an NFL blitz package vs Justin Fields facing an NFL blitz package, but then again I haven’t watched much Big Sky Conference football, so

Ahem. First of all nice pandering. Second, nice straw man. Third, please watch Justin Fields vs. Indiana and Justin Fields vs. Northwestern. The game plan of those two defenses against Fields was pretty straight forward and for the most part that gameplan worked well for those teams. Fourth, Wilson’s small body of work against the blitz is pretty good, regardless of whatever narrative you want to make that fits your biases the result still bear out. No one is touting this to say that Wilson is “a gawd” against the blitz but just that he played well against the blitz in 2020. 

[kdels62]

20 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Agreed Fields is bad against the blitz.

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Ahem. First of all nice pandering. Second, nice straw man. Third, please watch Justin Fields vs. Indiana and Justin Fields vs. Northwestern. The game plan of those two defenses against Fields was pretty straight forward and for the most part that gameplan worked well for those teams. Fourth, Wilson’s small body of work against the blitz is pretty good, regardless of whatever narrative you want to make that fits your biases the result still bear out. No one is touting this to say that Wilson is “a gawd” against the blitz but just that he played well against the blitz in 2020. 

To this, I would say that QB punishment is a cumulative thing and that the more a QB gets smacked, the less effective he is, and I think that Fields was smacked a lot and Wilson was smacked a relatively minuscule amount in comparison. 

[kdels62]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

To this, I would say that QB punishment is a cumulative thing and that the more a QB gets smacked, the less effective he is, and I think that Fields was smacked a lot and Wilson was smacked a relatively minuscule amount in comparison. 

Yeah prior to that Indiana game Justin Fields took real beatings from Rutgers, Penn State, and Nebraska. 

[jetswinbaby!]

Many posters in this thread, touting one QB over the other, might benefit from the words of Socrates:

"I know that I know nothing"...

[Beerfish]

I've said it before I don't care if Qb x,y,z is better long term than the guy we pick, I just want the guy we pick to be good long term.

[T0mShane]

10 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Yeah prior to that Indiana game Justin Fields took real beatings from Rutgers, Penn State, and Nebraska. 

Seven sacks in those three games. Wilson was sacked 11 times in 12 games.

[kdels62]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Seven sacks in those three games. Wilson was sacked 11 times in 12 games.

Kinda seems low when you consider that Fields holds the ball longer than any player in college and in the pros. More importantly however, 7 sacks in 3 games shouldn’t have a cumulative effect to rattle the kid into 3 interceptions in the following game. 

Fields’s pressure rate was about 29% while Wilson hung around 22% according to PFF, so it’s not like Fields was living a life under siege. 

I do want to reiterate tho that Fields was blitzed a lot by 2 good defenses because they (Indiana and Northwestern)  could blitz him and not sacrifice coverage and the only team that tried to do it to Wilson got beat quickly and stopped. Better defenses probably would’ve done a better job forcing Wilson to react to their schemes.

[T0mShane]

12 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Kinda seems low when you consider that Fields holds the ball longer than any player in college and in the pros. More importantly however, 7 sacks in 3 games shouldn’t have a cumulative effect to rattle the kid into 3 interceptions in the following game. 

Fields’s pressure rate was about 29% while Wilson hung around 22% according to PFF, so it’s not like Fields was living a life under siege. 

I do want to reiterate tho that Fields was blitzed a lot by 2 good defenses because they (Indiana and Northwestern)  could blitz him and not sacrifice coverage and the only team that tried to do it to Wilson got beat quickly and stopped. Better defenses probably would’ve done a better job forcing Wilson to react to their schemes.

To reiterate, I’m not a Fields guy at all, but I do think there’s added value to a dude who has lined up against the elite defensive prospects and taken a beating already, because the Jets are going to get you smacked around. I don’t like that Wilson doesn’t appear to have much experience dealing with violent pass rushes and also hasn’t been subjected to a hostile press and fan base. He may well handle both aspects like a champ, but we simply have no evidence of that as yet. He’s going to have zero margin for error here because I get the impression from fellow Jets fans that they are fairly fed up with the revolving door at QB and Wilson is just the next bag of meat to get tossed to slaughter. I don’t think his mushy-boy face and Utah gosh-golly demeanor will do him any favors either, unless he has extreme early success. 

[Sperm Edwards]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

To reiterate, I’m not a Fields guy at all, but I do think there’s added value to a dude who has lined up against the elite defensive prospects and taken a beating already, because the Jets are going to get you smacked around. I don’t like that Wilson doesn’t appear to have much experience dealing with violent pass rushes and also hasn’t been subjected to a hostile press and fan base. He may well handle both aspects like a champ, but we simply have no evidence of that as yet. He’s going to have zero margin for error here because I get the impression from fellow Jets fans that they are fairly fed up with the revolving door at QB and Wilson is just the next bag of meat to get tossed to slaughter. I don’t think his mushy-boy face and Utah gosh-golly demeanor will do him any favors either, unless he has extreme early success. 

Fresh meat!

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

If that gif had sound I would probably listen to it all day. Haha 

[derp]

29 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Kinda seems low when you consider that Fields holds the ball longer than any player in college and in the pros. More importantly however, 7 sacks in 3 games shouldn’t have a cumulative effect to rattle the kid into 3 interceptions in the following game. 

Fields’s pressure rate was about 29% while Wilson hung around 22% according to PFF, so it’s not like Fields was living a life under siege. 

I do want to reiterate tho that Fields was blitzed a lot by 2 good defenses because they (Indiana and Northwestern)  could blitz him and not sacrifice coverage and the only team that tried to do it to Wilson got beat quickly and stopped. Better defenses probably would’ve done a better job forcing Wilson to react to their schemes.

I’m not being sarcastic, can you point me to where that time to throw stat was again? Both guys have some concerning stuff, I know Fields held the ball longer when blitzes than when not blitzed and Wilson had double the percentage of throws over 4 seconds when compared to the next highest guy (14% vs. 7%).

[The Crusher]

13 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

To reiterate, I’m not a Fields guy at all, but I do think there’s added value to a dude who has lined up against the elite defensive prospects and taken a beating already, because the Jets are going to get you smacked around. I don’t like that Wilson doesn’t appear to have much experience dealing with violent pass rushes and also hasn’t been subjected to a hostile press and fan base. He may well handle both aspects like a champ, but we simply have no evidence of that as yet. He’s going to have zero margin for error here because I get the impression from fellow Jets fans that they are fairly fed up with the revolving door at QB and Wilson is just the next bag of meat to get tossed to slaughter. I don’t think his mushy-boy face and Utah gosh-golly demeanor will do him any favors either, unless he has extreme early success. 

Come on man you act  like he might throw a pick 6 on his very first pass.