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18 minutes ago, QB1 said:

You might be right, but when I watch them both in college Herbert looks like a much more natural and instinctual player. My concern with fields is that he is very mechanical and a tick slow to move and react in general, even when running. It's like he doesn't have great control of his body... Reminds me of markelle fultz playing basketball. Just what I see when comparing the two. I like Fields, and wouldn't be surprised if he turns out the be the best QB in the class if he goes into the right situation. 

So you’re a style over substance guy?  Mechanical or not he’s arguably the most productive of the top QBs going against the toughest competition in the aggregate.  I hear the noise about his delivery.  I’m a guy who believes that you don’t change your mechanics or delivery unless it’s affecting your accuracy.  Fields is extremely accurate; so I wouldn’t touch anything other than have him speed up his drop and set up.

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I find it hilarious that off platform throws are now a requirement for top QBs.  In 2017 Mahomes’ off platform brilliance was labeled as “bad mechanics”.  Now we would “like to see a few more examples

Great source

La Canfora saying it’s not for sure Wilson is the pick at 2 is pretty much 100% confirmation that Wilson is for sure the pick at 2

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Just now, Tranquilo said:

Yeah but what are they over analyzing? What part of his game are they zoning in on that's causing the drop?

Go back in this thread to my posts about Justin Herbert predraft.

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Speaking with The Athletic's Bruce Feldman, one NFL QB coach said that he does not believe Ohio State QB Justin Fields "sees the field that well."

This particular QB coach loves Fields' tough-as-all-get-all mentality as well as his athleticism (on display during a 4.44-second 40-yard pro day dash). But he is not sold on Fields as a complete field general, telling Feldman that he views the Ohio State star as the fifth-best quarterback in the class behind Trevor Lawrence, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance and Mac Jones. Another anonymous coach whom Feldman checked in with praised Fields' polish and development, particularly in comparison to a player like Lance. It's very possible all five of the top signal-callers readying for the draft could be selected within the first 10 picks next week. Fields and Jones are the two quarterbacks who could potentially end up sliding out of that range. Won't be sitting around for too long if that is the case.

Source: The Athletic
Apr 21, 2021, 12:06 PM E
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8 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Anyone know how to interpret this and what it might mean?
@TheMo 

That's really unfortunate. Might be correlated to his recent drop off, but I don't know. From the article it said that it's hereditary and seems to dissipate at a young age, but either ways I hope he'll be alright.  

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5 hours ago, legler82 said:

 

The following sounds exactly like all the drivel the talking heads are saying about Fields:

 

1. Anticipation/Instincts

This is the biggest concern by far. There are numerous examples where Herbert to doesn’t pull the trigger when he should or his instincts kick in too late.  
 

This one sticks out to me because it’s against Auburn in Week 1, a game Oregon should have won. There is a clear window here where Herbert needs to let it loose. He’s got the arm strength to let it fly.

There are more of these, and they can be glaring when it’s clear he sees a WR open but doesn’t pull the trigger right away.

2. Flat-out misses 

Herbert just misses on a ton of throws. Here’s a good example from the Washington State game. The WR just sits in the zone and Herbert overshoots him. There’s nothing more to say. It’s not a good throw. Herbert needs to have more touch on some of these throws. Again, you can find many of these in the film.
 

3. Locks on to one read and doesn’t come off

There are times when Herbert locks on to a route before the snap, and he’s throwing there, even if someone else is open. Is this coaching? Is it Herbert? This is what scouts will need to find out.

4. Footwork issues 

I don’t have film for this, so I will rely on Greg Cosell’s scouting report. He’s the best in the business and does a fantastic job of talking about all Herbert’s issues.”

 

 

No idea where you’re pulling this from since it’s not sourced... it looks copied/pasted but I’ll presume they are your notes. Firstly, these are so oversimplified and lack context. I’ll break it down for you and explain why Justin Herbert’s issues were different and concerning; you can choose to accept, go back and reevaluate yourself, or research for yourself... up to you. 

  • Vision, reads and responsibilities: Herbert consistently made full-field reads, played in a passing scheme filled with pro-style passing concepts, and was asked to read defenses and alignments pre-snap. Fields has never done anything close to this.  
  • Accuracy: Herbert really struggled with consistent ball placement both within-and-outside of structure, and also throwing on-and-off platform to the point where it was alarming. Fields doesn’t have this issue, however, he struggles a little bit when asked to throw on the run and off-platform. 
  • Timing & Pocket awareness: both struggled pulling the trigger and had very low awareness of blitzes and pass rush. 
  • Arm talent: Herbert had a loose arm, can throw from a variety of arm slots, and a lot of throw power. However, he didn’t throw with much touch or anticipation at all and struggled on throws deep. Fields doesn’t have as loose arm and is more of a stride-thrower and displays a more consistent delivery. Throws with more touch and looks natural throwing downfield. 
  • Throwing mechanics: Herbert was much more robotic than Fields from within the pocket. He looked more natural outside the pocket than Fields has. 
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1 hour ago, kdels62 said:

Anyone know how to interpret this and what it might mean?
@TheMo 

It's a silly reason to pass on someone.

Bill Polian admitted he passed on Steve McNair in favor of Steve Collins in part due to the fact that McNair had a learning disability. And look which QB ended up having the better career

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6 minutes ago, King P said:

It's a silly reason to pass on someone.

Bill Polian admitted he passed on Steve McNair in favor of Steve Collins in part due to the fact that McNair had a learning disability. And look which QB ended up having the better career

Learning disability and epilepsy are not the same thing.

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26 minutes ago, King P said:

It's a silly reason to pass on someone.

Bill Polian admitted he passed on Steve McNair in favor of Steve Collins in part due to the fact that McNair had a learning disability. And look which QB ended up having the better career

Well that explains why Justin Fields is dropping.  At least now I know I’m not crazy.

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31 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Learning disability and epilepsy are not the same thing.

Please point out where I said they were the same thing.

I'm saying they're not valid enough reasons to dismiss player IMO

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24 minutes ago, King P said:

Please point out where I said they were the same thing.

I'm saying they're not valid enough reasons to dismiss player IMO

You’re equating their effect on a person’s physical health. I don’t know what effect epilepsy can have on an athlete so I’m asking. Do you know the effects of medication or symptoms of epilepsy and how they might affect an athlete?

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11 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

You’re equating their effect on a person’s physical health. I don’t know what effect epilepsy can have on an athlete so I’m asking. Do you know the effects of medication or symptoms of epilepsy and how they might affect an athlete?

One of my friends in HS was an epileptic and he was fine. Played football and basketball. His seizures were not triggered by lights or anything on the field/court like that. The only time he ever had a seizure is if he didn't take his meds.

Also, there have been epileptic pros with no issues on the field 

 

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If he’s well controlled on medications it’s unlikely anything will significantly change from a medical standpoint. This would change nothing in my evaluation of him since he has proven to be optimized on medical management. Of course I am not privy to all his medical reports so this is the epitome of a curbside consult. 

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You kinda have to be proud that Faneca was once a Jet. What a legend!

 

All the luck in the world for Justin Fields as well, must be hard to see your life scrutinized like this.

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16 minutes ago, Gramsci said:

It's pretty low of NFL "reporters" to leak someone's mental health record. Aren't these "journalists" supposed to adhere to an ethical code? 

 

 

Not a mental health problem. It’s a neurological condition, not a psychiatric one. I do agree it should only be revealed with his permission.

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14 minutes ago, docdhc said:

Not a mental health problem. It’s a neurological condition, not a psychiatric one. I do agree it should only be revealed with his permission.

Thank you for the correction. 

It's quite bizarre how people feel it's ok to leak something as personal as that. The fact that this has been trivialised over time, reveals the pernicious nature of this type of "journalism".

 

 

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5 hours ago, kdels62 said:

You’re equating their effect on a person’s physical health. I don’t know what effect epilepsy can have on an athlete so I’m asking. Do you know the effects of medication or symptoms of epilepsy and how they might affect an athlete?

I’m an epileptic.  My Neurologist did not want me playing linebacker.  It’s actually a reason why I picked up QB at a young age.

It, and many of the medications, can hinder your learning abilities.  I’m really not trying to stir sh*t up here either since I know that has been a knock on Fields.  I’m on Depakote and school was pretty rough in my early years.  By high school and college I was good, but that was years after medication adjustments, private tutors and after school work.

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Unless any of us have an MD at the end of our names, I'm not sure how we can opine how this affects his playing ability. Was the condition "flagged" at the medical exam?

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5 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I have epilepsy....

It's all over the place with the severity, don't know his level.  

Mine is perfectly under control with medication, no issues whatsoever - go off the meds and it's not good.

If he's anything like me there shouldn't be any issues.  it sounds like he's managed it just fine so I can't imagine the doctors have any issues..

Oh snap.  Small world.  

Yeah, without knowing his condition, it’s hard to say.  I played QB just fine in high school, but Justin’s epilepsy is not my epilepsy.  I suffered one concussion and never had an issue with it being more than that, but everyone was very on edge when it happened.

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On 4/19/2021 at 1:12 PM, legler82 said:

How great would it be if JD fooled the entire draft community?  My Fields bias aside, I really hate the fact that everyone feels like they know what we are doing at 2.  It goes completely against the no leak ship JD has been commanding thus far.

Wow. It really depends on what kind if epilepsy he has and how well controlled it is with medications, and as @Mogglezpointed out, what KIND of medication. Depakote is a rough one because it can slow down functioning (and not just the neural synapses that fire too much). 
there are much better medications now such as keppra (also depends on what kind of seizures because they are treated differently).

 

im going to assume that if he made it this far and got smacked around this much his epilepsy is pretty under control. That being said there is no telling what a bad concussion could do, and how it could affect him neurologically. There isn’t any real evidence that an epileptics brain is more fragile snd other than the possible chance of someone having a seizure on the field (which is more embarrassing to the player than anything else) it’s pretty low risk.

This does however make me like him a ton more and makes me think he has an extra layer of mental toughness to him. 

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5 minutes ago, Wit said:

Wow. It really depends on what kind if epilepsy he has and how well controlled it is with medications, and as @Mogglezpointed out, what KIND of medication. Depakote is a rough one because it can slow down functioning (and not just the neural synapses that fire too much). 
there are much better medications now such as keppra (also depends on what kind of seizures because they are treated differently).

 

im going to assume that if he made it this far and got smacked around this much his epilepsy is pretty under control. That being said there is no telling what a bad concussion could do, and how it could affect him neurologically. There isn’t any real evidence that an epileptics brain is more fragile snd other than the possible chance of someone having a seizure on the field (which is more embarrassing to the player than anything else) it’s pretty low risk.

This does however make me like him a ton more and makes me think he has an extra layer of mental toughness to him. 

I really wish I was able to be on anything other than Depakote.  It was very rough.

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