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For those still wishing for Fields, get in here! We're going to his proday tomorrow again


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Just now, bitonti said:

Fields would be a very NYJ pick. This franchise has a scouting bias toward "the" Ohio State university for many years for better (Mangold) or worse (Gholston, the boar hunter). JD changed the way they grade but has kept many of the same scouts they've always had. 

Fields is not a Dwayne Haskins the dude got into Harvard and Yale. 

Saleh reportedly wanted to run it back with Darnold. Now Saleh reportedly likes Fields more than Wilson.  

if the "SF knows what NYJ is doing" rumor is true (and they share so many coaches, why not) then their trade up to 3 knowing Zach Wilson is going to be there makes way more sense than this Mac Jones business. 

and if all the above is just imagination, NYJ takes Zach Wilson, SF takes Fields, and that works for them too 

there's a model for Fields in the SFO Shanny WCO offense and it's Super Bowl appearance Colin Kaepernick 

 

Have not heard that Saleh like dFields more ... link ?

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I find it hilarious that off platform throws are now a requirement for top QBs.  In 2017 Mahomes’ off platform brilliance was labeled as “bad mechanics”.  Now we would “like to see a few more examples

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La Canfora saying it’s not for sure Wilson is the pick at 2 is pretty much 100% confirmation that Wilson is for sure the pick at 2

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2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Fields would be a very NYJ pick. This franchise has a scouting bias toward "the" Ohio State university for many years for better (Mangold) or worse (Gholston, the boar hunter). JD changed the way they grade but has kept many of the same scouts they've always had. 

Fields is not a Dwayne Haskins the dude got into Harvard and Yale. 

Saleh reportedly wanted to run it back with Darnold. Now Saleh reportedly likes Fields more than Wilson.  

if the "SF knows what NYJ is doing" rumor is true (and they share so many coaches, why not) then their trade up to 3 knowing Zach Wilson is going to be there makes way more sense than this Mac Jones business. 

and if all the above is just imagination, NYJ takes Zach Wilson, SF takes Fields, and that works for them too 

there's a model for Fields in the SFO Shanny WCO offense and it's Super Bowl appearance Colin Kaepernick 

 

source? 

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4 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

 

This has been something I’ve floated.

I can also see a draft day swap of 2 and 3, because JD didn’t want to go back out of the top 3. Meaning he had a target in mind - and he’s not a dunce, per se.

SF trades a haul for 3. Sits with it until the draft. Swap on the clock, we end up with Fields and a player Saleh values on D.

I was with you on this and was hoping that would be a scenario available to JD, but then I looked up SF’s draft cupboard, and - well...bare doesn’t begin to describe it.

14 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Actually, sh*t. Even in this daydream, the 49ers picks suck after they traded away everything to the dolphins. No firsts the next two years, no 3rd this year. 

Round Pick
1 3 (from Dolphins, via Texans)
2 11
4 12
5 11
5 28 from Saints
5 36 (Compensatory Selection)
6 10
7 2 (from Jets)

 

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3 minutes ago, Stark said:

Hell if that's true... Im also packing a cooler with beer and some golf clubs so I can hang with @Paradis and @JiF after pro day 2... 

I’ll be there. I never golf. But I can drink. 

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1 hour ago, bitonti said:

If I'm reading this chart correctly, only on short 0-10 passes is wilson better than fields 

Fields is more accurate intermediate and deep and 20 percent more accurate under pressure 

Weird how Wilson never falls past being the second QB on any holistic metric yet your takeaway is that Wilson ain’t worth the pick. Meanwhile Lawrence sits comfortably at #1 while being behind both Wilson and Fields consistently. 

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20 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I respect your input but if this is true, it still makes no sense (unless they are going to see another player).  The draft is all about game theory, and if there is 0% chance you are going to draft a guy, it makes no sense to waste time and resources going to see him.  These guys shouldn't have a day to waste in this manner if they are certain about their pick.  Everything Douglas has said until now has said his phone is open at all times.  Maybe all they are doing is telegraphing that they would entertain a call for #2, but if they are doing that much, then they would logically be open to a discussion.

Doesn't mean Wilson isn't their preferred guy, but #4, #35 (or whatever) and a 2022 1st or 2nd might be more valuable to Douglas, particularly if Saleh actually prefers another guy.  

No inside info here.  But a very sound grasp of game theory and reading into what the players are doing.

Again...if the Jets were 100% certain they were taking Wilson, then this trip makes no sense at all.  Not pointing at you here, but fans on this board being 100% certain don't actually factor in.  Not even if they are 110% certain.

First, yes we're definitely speaking from a respectful place. I think some posters on their forum interpret my challenges/conviction to be winey or pompus in nature, but it's not... that's just how I type. I love theory, arguments, counterarguments, etc. There's nothing personal about it.

I'm not saying Douglas wouldn't consider an offer to trade, I'm saying that no one will make an offer. It's fun to speculate, but I know it just won't happen and Joe made it pretty clear that they're pretty much resigned to the fact they will be drafting #2 in his press conference. Maybe they get a last minute call on draft day by a team just trying to screw with them, but it certainly sounds like they're locked into #2. If a godfather offer was out there it would've happened already. 

In regards to the above I totally disagree. Teams go to pro-days to see players they aren't going to draft all the time, and in addition to that, it's not like Justin Fields is the only player there working out. A big part of the pro-day circuit is information gathering, just as is the combine. Sure I think the Jets are doing their due diligence on Fields as well, but it's not like they're "wasting time" being there. It's no different than going to a networking event... sometimes they can appear to be pointless, other times a lot come out of them (see OSU's 1st pro-day, where the wheels started truly churning on the Sam Darnold trade). You mention game theory so lets go down that road...  

I think we agree that this level of strategy is applied by front offices around the NFL, so why wouldn't you think they'd be there for the purpose of information gathering? Instead of focusing on the prospect, focus on the teams/executives as the "players". Most front offices use mock drafts; they read them, they create them, and some even use advanced simulations to try and predict/analyze potential outcomes. Part of the job is trying to obtain as much data as possible and compartmentalize that data to get a sense how rounds 1-2 will unfold. The draft board is in the final stretch and nearing completion. They have one more meeting before finalizing everything, but the hard work is pretty much finished. You don't see there being some value at being around the other decision-makers to get a sense of their reactions to the workout, interactions to it, or even information gathering when they inevitably all congregate for lunch and beers after the pro-day? After all, the Jets are trying to figure out their scenarios for both 23 and 34... they want to collect all the information they possibly can so that they can get a sense how the board is going to fall to them, and part of that is by strategically evaluating their "opponents" (the other 31 teams). 

Most NFL front offices operate under the mantra that "information is power." How to compartmentalize it and use time wisely is the biggest hurdle. Maccagnan sucked at this... he was a grinder and people respected him for it, but he/his scouts spent so much time on prospects that it was too much, and it took away from the strategical aspect of being an effective General Manager... having a process. They had one of the largest draft boards in the league at 270+ players. Douglas/his FO and scouting department are more specific and strategic... they have about 140-150 players on the final board, guys who are scheme-and-cultural fits. He and Rex Hogan also really value in-draft trading, which goes into the strategy aspect of things; they have a good feel for where players are going/who the opponents are taking from all the information they gather throughout the process. Douglas moved down from 48 last year despite Mims being their top receiver on the board, a ballsy move, because they felt confident that either he or another highly graded player would be there at 59 based on their own board "pocket" of players, the research they had done on other teams, and via process of elimination. 

 

I think we're saying a lot of the same things here, and I surely went off topic, but my overall point is that don't assume presence at a pro-day is only for the player. In one way or another, they're going to deploy their scouts/execs to every major pro-day for a variety of reasons that include prospect evaluation, due diligence, and just getting facetime with other major NFL draft "players" to see if they can get any info out of them/share info on prospects

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6 minutes ago, QB1 said:

source? 

im trying to find it - was a SF article that theorized because Saleh's Achilles heel as a DC was defending mobile/scrambling for yards QBs, he'd want Fields for his offense as more of a run threat 

we never did get a 40 time on Zach Wilson btw and that 214 number he weighed in at looked like 10 pounds of water weight 

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I'm a Wilson supporter but not a fanatic as originally Fields was my choice. I guess I'm mostly in the camp of nobody really knows how any QB will turn out in the NFL so this is all just a useless thought exercise BUT if the NYJ do choose Fields and the 49ers take Wilson, I'll be even more convinced that Wilson should have been the pick just based off of the fact that we are the Jets and the prophecy has already been written. 

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2 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Weird how Wilson never falls past being the second QB on any holistic metric yet your takeaway is that Wilson ain’t worth the pick. Meanwhile Lawrence sits comfortably at #1 while being behind both Wilson and Fields consistently. 

It's not necessarily that Zach Wilson isn't worth the pick as much as he won't survive the beating that's on tap for whoever QB1 is this season

we all know they lack the patience to sit Zach Wilson like Mahomes and Rodgers, the best case comparisons.  

he's a good qb prospect. Maybe he's worth a 2 pick to someone else. he's just not good HERE. 

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3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

 

he's a good qb prospect. Maybe he's worth a 2 pick to someone else. he's just not good HERE. 

Completely disagree ... we have beeen building a much better Oline than Sam ever had.  THis is the perfect time for a player like Wilson.

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2 minutes ago, football guy said:

First, yes we're definitely speaking from a respectful place. I think some posters on their forum interpret my challenges/conviction to be winey or pompus in nature, but it's not... that's just how I type. I love theory, arguments, counterarguments, etc. There's nothing personal about it.

I'm not saying Douglas wouldn't consider an offer to trade, I'm saying that no one will make an offer. It's fun to speculate, but I know it just won't happen and Joe made it pretty clear that they're pretty much resigned to the fact they will be drafting #2 in his press conference. Maybe they get a last minute call on draft day by a team just trying to screw with them, but it certainly sounds like they're locked into #2. If a godfather offer was out there it would've happened already. 

In regards to the above I totally disagree. Teams go to pro-days to see players they aren't going to draft all the time, and in addition to that, it's not like Justin Fields is the only player there working out. A big part of the pro-day circuit is information gathering, just as is the combine. Sure I think the Jets are doing their due diligence on Fields as well, but it's not like they're "wasting time" being there. It's no different than going to a networking event... sometimes they can appear to be pointless, other times a lot come out of them (see OSU's 1st pro-day, where the wheels started truly churning on the Sam Darnold trade). You mention game theory so lets go down that road...  

I think we agree that this level of strategy is applied by front offices around the NFL, so why wouldn't you think they'd be there for the purpose of information gathering? Instead of focusing on the prospect, focus on the teams/executives as the "players". Most front offices use mock drafts; they read them, they create them, and some even use advanced simulations to try and predict/analyze potential outcomes. Part of the job is trying to obtain as much data as possible and compartmentalize that data to get a sense how rounds 1-2 will unfold. The draft board is in the final stretch and nearing completion. They have one more meeting before finalizing everything, but the hard work is pretty much finished. You don't see there being some value at being around the other decision-makers to get a sense of their reactions to the workout, interactions to it, or even information gathering when they inevitably all congregate for lunch and beers after the pro-day? After all, the Jets are trying to figure out their scenarios for both 23 and 34... they want to collect all the information they possibly can so that they can get a sense how the board is going to fall to them, and part of that is by strategically evaluating their "opponents" (the other 31 teams). 

Most NFL front offices operate under the mantra that "information is power." How to compartmentalize it and use time wisely is the biggest hurdle. Maccagnan sucked at this... he was a grinder and people respected him for it, but he/his scouts spent so much time on prospects that it was too much, and it took away from the strategical aspect of being an effective General Manager... having a process. They had one of the largest draft boards in the league at 270+ players. Douglas/his FO and scouting department are more specific and strategic... they have about 140-150 players on the final board, guys who are scheme-and-cultural fits. He and Rex Hogan also really value in-draft trading, which goes into the strategy aspect of things; they have a good feel for where players are going/who the opponents are taking from all the information they gather throughout the process. Douglas moved down from 48 last year despite Mims being their top receiver on the board, a ballsy move, because they felt confident that either he or another highly graded player would be there at 59 based on their own board "pocket" of players, the research they had done on other teams, and via process of elimination. 

 

I think we're saying a lot of the same things here, and I surely went off topic, but my overall point is that don't assume presence at a pro-day is only for the player. In one way or another, they're going to deploy their scouts/execs to every major pro-day for a variety of reasons that include prospect evaluation, due diligence, and just getting facetime with other major NFL draft "players" to see if they can get any info out of them/share info on prospects

It also seems to move that JD will do every single bit of due dilligence in this draft just on the extremely outside chance something unexpected happens. We have seen it before, a late video, injury, something negative comes back in a security check, etc... With Wilson specifically, there is a very outside chance that the Jaguars pull a Mayfield and take Wilson and the Jets need to be prepared for that. I saw a response to some tweet on Wilson the other day that Lawrence might be trying to dissuade JAX from taking him. Likely BS.

I think there are a couple important points:

1. The Jets are taking Wilson barring a completely freakish unexpected event

2. The Jets will be 100% prepared if that happens

3. JD has essentially confirmed several times by his own words that we are taking Wilson,.

 

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Just now, Tranquilo said:

Great source

you have fingers use Google

it is a real thing by the way 

Big SFO Losses vs Mobile QBs with Saleh as DC 

2019 

Week 8 Loss @ Baltimore - Lamar Jackson 16 rushes 101 yards 1 TD

Super Bowl Loss vs KCC - Patrick Mahomes 9 rushes 29 yards 1 TD 

2020 

Week 1 Loss to ARZ - Kyler Murray 13 rushes 91 yards 1 TD  

***

i wont even go into 2018 they lost to Josh Rosen at one point 

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2 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Completely disagree ... we have beeen building a much better Oline than Sam ever had.  THis is the perfect time for a player like Wilson.

they have 1 good player Becton. The rest of the line is below average. They have no guards that would start on other teams 

it might be better than Sam, that's a super low bar. it's still a bottom 5 line 

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2 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

There is no link to a mans imagination 

ok does anyone have a link to Saleh liking Wilson more? 

 

i'm still looking by the way, you'll all see 

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3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

you have fingers use Google

it is a real thing by the way 

Big SFO Losses vs Mobile QBs with Saleh as DC 

2019 

Week 8 Loss @ Baltimore - Lamar Jackson 16 rushes 101 yards 1 TD

Super Bowl Loss vs KCC - Patrick Mahomes 9 rushes 29 yards 1 TD 

2020 

Week 1 Loss to ARZ - Kyler Murray 13 rushes 91 yards 1 TD  

***

i wont even go into 2018 they lost to Josh Rosen at one point 

That's fine, but speculation isn't reality

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17 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I was with you on this and was hoping that would be a scenario available to JD, but then I looked up SF’s draft cupboard, and - well...bare doesn’t begin to describe it.

 

#3 + a played Saleh covets on D is my working theory.

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55 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

Something in my gut tells me we're taking Fields. Not sure what it is.

I don't believe all of the insider talk about how the Jets are locked in on Wilson. Since JD has come on, the insiders have been wrong about pretty much every prediction they've made on the Jets.

For the record, I'd be happy with either player. They're both good prospects.

Don't play with my heart like this. 

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59 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

Something in my gut tells me we're taking Fields. Not sure what it is.

I don't believe all of the insider talk about how the Jets are locked in on Wilson. Since JD has come on, the insiders have been wrong about pretty much every prediction they've made on the Jets.

For the record, I'd be happy with either player. They're both good prospects.

I've been having the exact same feeling lately.

Like you, I'd be happy with either.

 

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30 minutes ago, bitonti said:

im trying to find it - was a SF article that theorized because Saleh's Achilles heel as a DC was defending mobile/scrambling for yards QBs, he'd want Fields for his offense as more of a run threat 

we never did get a 40 time on Zach Wilson btw and that 214 number he weighed in at looked like 10 pounds of water weight 

Highly dubious source that seems like a person that is hypothesizing. 

I also read an article on SI where all the Jets coaches/decision makers independently reviewed tape of all the QBs in the draft and all came away with the consensus that Zach was the guy.

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21 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Jennifer Lawrence Reaction GIF

well jeez, you didn't say I wasn't supposed to bite - Vandinha Depressao |  Meme Generator

Lots of passive aggressiveness in these parts lol. I'm the bad guy for firing back at someone who wrote "I think it's obvious if you're a Zachapono fans, you were probably storming the Capital with the rest of the insurrectionists wearing a Q somewhere on your person" in response to my analysis of Justin Fields. Sorry, it's not in my nature to act like some 'weak or servile man' (see what I did there, progress! 😃) who will sit back and take it when a Jeff Spicoli wannabe makes those kind of slandering charges from behind the comfort of their computer screen, just as I'm sure you wouldn't either 

As far as my argumentative nature, I can neither confirm or deny whether I am "addicted to conflict"... Will do my best to keep it within the rules and as respectful as I'm capable of being 🤝

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5 minutes ago, Sammybighead said:

Highly dubious source that seems like a person that is hypothesizing. 

I also read an article on SI where all the Jets coaches/decision makers independently reviewed tape of all the QBs in the draft and all came away with the consensus that Zach was the guy.

Highly dubious? You literally misquoted the article:

"And the result of the early part of this process, in getting through the tape?

“It was a clear-cut top two quarterbacks for us,” Douglas says. “And there was a consensus. At that point, we felt good about our options, like, O.K., we have two starting quarterbacks. Whether it’s Sam, the rookie or both, we feel really good about this.”

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/04/08/inside-story-of-why-jets-traded-darnold-new-qb-search

Maybe it was Lawrence and Wilson that were the clear cut 2, but no QB was specifically identified. 

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12 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Highly dubious? You literally misquoted the article:

"And the result of the early part of this process, in getting through the tape?

“It was a clear-cut top two quarterbacks for us,” Douglas says. “And there was a consensus. At that point, we felt good about our options, like, O.K., we have two starting quarterbacks. Whether it’s Sam, the rookie or both, we feel really good about this.”

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/04/08/inside-story-of-why-jets-traded-darnold-new-qb-search

Maybe it was Lawrence and Wilson that were the clear cut 2, but no QB was specifically identified. 

My thought lately as well....except that maybe it was Lawrence & Fields since Wilson was a "late riser" to the conversation this year

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