For those still wishing for Fields, get in here! We're going to his proday tomorrow again

[Paradis]

26 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Highly dubious? You literally misquoted the article:

"And the result of the early part of this process, in getting through the tape?

“It was a clear-cut top two quarterbacks for us,” Douglas says. “And there was a consensus. At that point, we felt good about our options, like, O.K., we have two starting quarterbacks. Whether it’s Sam, the rookie or both, we feel really good about this.”

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/04/08/inside-story-of-why-jets-traded-darnold-new-qb-search

Maybe it was Lawrence and Wilson that were the clear cut 2, but no QB was specifically identified. 

Taken in that perspective,  certainly lends some theoretical weight to Fields. Totally possible that Wilson was always held in high regard, but speaking in "past tense" when people refer to a 2-QB class, it was TL and Fields up until late Jan/Feb.

[Dunnie]

I think put back into context ... 

"SALEH PREFERS FIELDS ... to everyone not named Zach Wilson or Trevor Lawrence"

Edited April 14, 2021 by Dunnie

[Dunnie]

1 minute ago, Paradis said:

Taken in that perspective,  certainly lends some theoretical weight to Fields. Totally possible that Wilson was always held in high regard, but speaking in "past tense" when people refer to a 2-QB class, it was TL and Fields up until late Jan/Feb.

This is undeniable. But still think its Zach by a mile.

[JohnnyLV]

2 hours ago, Alka said:

I

I believe that Fields will be a more successful QB than Wilson, because I just don't see Wilson staying healthy for 16 games.  

If we pick Wilson, I hope I am proven wrong.  If we pick Fields, I will be relieved.

See, I think the opposite. Wilson broke his hand tackling someone that was sort of a freak accident, and the shoulders were not football injuries but more wear and tear. Wilson does not seem to be injury prone in any way, he took a lot of big hits and was fine, and also knows how to slide which he will be heavily encouraged to do in the NFL.

But Fields will run a lot. History has shown that all of these guys sustain injuries are banged up and eventually slow down and become less effective. In my opinion we even started seeing this with Russell Wilson towards the end of the year and he protects himself as well as anyone. I also expect Lamar to be much less effective this year as well.

Just seems to be non-intuitve and contrary to history to think a running QB will be more durable than a pocket passer. Seems like no matter what, Wilson can not dodge the "small" concerns despite showing otherwise

[bitonti]

34 minutes ago, Samtorobby47 said:

Did they say who’s gonna be there? Douglas was at the facility this morning, unless he’s taking a quick late flight. 

JD and the OC will be there. Saleh is attending the birth of his child. But hc was at the 3/30

[maury77]

13 minutes ago, bitonti said:

JD and the OC will be there. Saleh is attending the birth of his child. But hc was at the 3/30

That's incorrect Bit. JD, Rex Hogan and LaFleur went to the first one, which Saleh could not go to because his wife was due to give birth. You have your dates backwards. 

[JohnnyLV]

53 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Highly dubious? You literally misquoted the article:

"And the result of the early part of this process, in getting through the tape?

“It was a clear-cut top two quarterbacks for us,” Douglas says. “And there was a consensus. At that point, we felt good about our options, like, O.K., we have two starting quarterbacks. Whether it’s Sam, the rookie or both, we feel really good about this.”

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/04/08/inside-story-of-why-jets-traded-darnold-new-qb-search

Maybe it was Lawrence and Wilson that were the clear cut 2, but no QB was specifically identified. 

True in that statement, but later he couldn't help but smile at the Steve Young comment,. in the Breer article he said his staff couldn't get out to BYU to see the QB play and he had to wait to see how his physical came back (physical not an issue with Fields) Scheffter sending a text welcoming Zach to NY and his father retweeting, even Zach's own responses hinting at NY along with all the reports that Wilson is #2 or #1 on pretty much every NFL draft board.  The only thing that casts some doubt in my mind is that tweet from Woody asking who people want. Maybe Woody wants Fields. That could affect things.

[greenwichjetfan]

24 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

But Fields will run a lot. 

What leads you to believe that Fields will run more than Wilson? 

[derp]

1 hour ago, Dunnie said:

Completely disagree ... we have beeen building a much better Oline than Sam ever had.  THis is the perfect time for a player like Wilson.

...isn’t the starting line currently...the exact same line that Darnold had last year?

[bitonti]

11 minutes ago, maury77 said:

That's incorrect Bit. JD, Rex Hogan and LaFleur went to the first one, which Saleh could not go to because his wife was due to give birth. You have your dates backwards. 

fair enough 

non sarcastic thanks for the fact check

[flgreen]

Shane P. Hallam @ShanePHallam 4h

Easy way to see which teams are looking at QBs. Interested to see if we see any differences between the teams here and Trey Lance’s 2nd Pro Day. I still think the Panthers are out on QB now, and Jets will go Wilson, but rest are in play for Fields.

Albert Breer @AlbertBreer

So to recap, teams that we've confirmed as slated to be at Ohio State QB Justin Fields' second pro day (picks in parantheses) ... • Jets (2) • 49ers (3) • Falcons (4) • Panthers (8) • Broncos (9) • Patriots (15) Also, as we've said, NFL coaches will run the workout.

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

 

 Interesting.

Waldman sounds like a complete idiot on that. 3rd round pick? His premise is basically a circular argument that Zach doesn't understand football, does not have good arm talent and essentially throws the ball up and gets lucky because the competition is so bad. Always has to be one

[mrcoops]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

 

 Interesting.

The bit about how Wilson's BYU teammates feel about him is interesting. That's one of my main concerns about him - does he have the personality to lead players at the NFL level.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

6 minutes ago, mrcoops said:

The bit about how Wilson's BYU teammates feel about him is interesting. That's one of my main concerns about him - does he have the personality to lead players at the NFL level.

What did they say? I cant listen to it.

[Sammybighead]

1 hour ago, maury77 said:

Highly dubious? You literally misquoted the article:

"And the result of the early part of this process, in getting through the tape?

“It was a clear-cut top two quarterbacks for us,” Douglas says. “And there was a consensus. At that point, we felt good about our options, like, O.K., we have two starting quarterbacks. Whether it’s Sam, the rookie or both, we feel really good about this.”

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/04/08/inside-story-of-why-jets-traded-darnold-new-qb-search

Maybe it was Lawrence and Wilson that were the clear cut 2, but no QB was specifically identified. 

Yes, that article you quote as proof positive that Saleh wants fields is highly dubious. First of all, it's written by a SanFran guy. Second, to quote you: "was a SF article that theorized". You say it yourself, the article theorized. Then you ask for a direct source indicating we're taking Wilson. There is none, just like there is no source indicating that Saleh prefers fields. But there are WAY MORE bits of evidence that indicate the entire staff is on board with Wilson who will ultimately be the pick. Yes, that SI article doesn't name Wilson as the #2 guy, but between the entire staff showing up to wilson's pro day, to steve young, to adam schefter, i'm connecting a more solid string of bread crumbs than you are.

Listen, I like fields (by the way, I also like Lance). I think these QBs are close and in an average year, Fields is going #1. But this isn't an average year and coaches have the luxury of also considering scheme fit. I think Wilson is the correct fit for this team right now. Does that mean he ultimately will be better than Fields? Of course not, nobody can guarantee that. But given a choice between 2 equally rated prospects, why handicap yourself by picking the square peg and forcing it into the round hole?

[flgreen]

[joewilly12]

1 hour ago, Dunnie said:

I think put back into context ... 

"SALEH PREFERS FIELDS ... to everyone not named Zach Wilson or Trevor Lawrence"

Many football fans I know most not NY Jets fans think we are selecting Justin Fields. 

[Paradis]

26 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Waldman sounds like a complete idiot on that. 3rd round pick? His premise is basically a circular argument that Zach doesn't understand football, does not have good arm talent and essentially throws the ball up and gets lucky because the competition is so bad. Always has to be one

Waldman is one the most respected minds in the community... Don't have agree at all, but respect his game. Any tactician in the history of everything will tell you to pay even more attention to those who present something way off pop opinion/consensus. 

[mrcoops]

14 minutes ago, Samtorobby47 said:

What did they say? I cant listen to it.

I'm paraphrasing, but Waldman basically said that loads of BYU players had been asked over the past year to pick one teammate they would want to take to the NFL with them, and no-one picked Wilson.

Waldman doesn’t rate Wilson, which may play into his angle here, but hearing that was concerning to me. I have read enough speculation about Wilson's personality and leadership for it to be a little worrying.

I've heard good stuff too, but more of this type of thing than you often hear for a potential high 1st round QB.

[QB1]

1 minute ago, mrcoops said:

I'm paraphrasing, but Waldman basically said that loads of BYU players had been asked over the past year to pick one teammate they would want to take to the NFL with them, and no-one picked Wilson.

Waldman doesn’t rate Wilson, which may play into his angle here, but hearing that was concerning to me. I have read enough speculation about Wilson's personality and leadership for it to be a little worrying.

I've heard good stuff too, but more of this type of thing than you often hear for a potential high 1st round QB.

He said he knows some random guy that has been asking BYU players "who they would take to the NFL" with them and none said Wilson, you can interpret that however you like. 

He called Wilson a 3rd rounder and compared him to Baker Mayfield. Said the Mahomes comparisons are based off nothing tangible. 

He is concerned about his ability to see the field and make the correct reads. 

I think that he completely dismissed Wilsons arm talent as nothing special. I think any objective observer can appreciate that this kid is special at throwing the football- that is where the mahomes/rodgers comps come from... 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

1 minute ago, QB1 said:

He said he knows some random guy that has been asking BYU players "who they would take to the NFL" with them and none said Wilson, you can interpret that however you like. 

He called Wilson a 3rd rounder and compared him to Baker Mayfield. Said the Mahomes comparisons are based off nothing tangible. 

He is concerned about his ability to see the field and make the correct reads. 

I think that he completely dismissed Wilsons arm talent as nothing special. I think any objective observer can appreciate that this kid is special at throwing the football- that is where the mahomes/rodgers comps come from... 

Hard to take anyone serious that ranks him a 3rd rounder when literally every other analyst has him at #2 overall. But who knows, maybe he's got the inside scoop and everyone really does hate him. These are the things we hope JD digs up.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

8 minutes ago, mrcoops said:

I'm paraphrasing, but Waldman basically said that loads of BYU players had been asked over the past year to pick one teammate they would want to take to the NFL with them, and no-one picked Wilson.

Waldman doesn’t rate Wilson, which may play into his angle here, but hearing that was concerning to me. I have read enough speculation about Wilson's personality and leadership for it to be a little worrying.

I've heard good stuff too, but more of this type of thing than you often hear for a potential high 1st round QB.

Also who are these random BYU players picking that they're taking to the NFL over Wilson lol

[QB1]

4 minutes ago, Samtorobby47 said:

Hard to take anyone serious that ranks him a 3rd rounder when literally every other analyst has him at #2 overall. But who knows, maybe he's got the inside scoop and everyone really does hate him. These are the things we hope JD digs up.

Yea, its one guy. I believe he missed hard on Herbert (had him as his 8th QB) though I could be wrong there. He does have Sermon as his #1 RB which I agree with... 

[Paradis]

3 minutes ago, Samtorobby47 said:

Hard to take anyone serious that ranks him a 3rd rounder when literally every other analyst has him at #2 overall. But who knows, maybe he's got the inside scoop and everyone really does hate him. These are the things we hope JD digs up.

I just need April 29 to be now. 

[HawkeyeJet]

Amen to this.  Amen.  This is what I've been saying for awhile.  The narrative around Fields is that of a smear campaign, for whatever reason, while other QBs have some things that are, at minimum, eyebrow raising.

 

[bitonti]

39 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Waldman sounds like a complete idiot on that. 3rd round pick? His premise is basically a circular argument that Zach doesn't understand football, does not have good arm talent and essentially throws the ball up and gets lucky because the competition is so bad. Always has to be one

 

7 minutes ago, QB1 said:

He said he knows some random guy that has been asking BYU players "who they would take to the NFL" with them and none said Wilson, you can interpret that however you like. 

He called Wilson a 3rd rounder and compared him to Baker Mayfield. Said the Mahomes comparisons are based off nothing tangible. 

He is concerned about his ability to see the field and make the correct reads. 

I think that he completely dismissed Wilsons arm talent as nothing special. I think any objective observer can appreciate that this kid is special at throwing the football- that is where the mahomes/rodgers comps come from... 

 

"Ex-Jets scout" Daniel Kelly is the dude who has a 3rd round grade on Wilson. His other interests include evangelical preacher. 

Matt Waldman has like a thousand page PDF breaks down every throw and at no point does he assign an NFL draft round grade to Zach Wilson's evaluation. It's hard to summarize. Waldman ranked Wilson the best for "Short range throws on the move" but "needs improvement" on ball security it all adds up to 6th among QBs for Fantasy Football purposes.

He does compare him to Mayfield also calls Wilson this year's Jordan Love/Drew Lock i.e. media hype over compensating for missing on Mahomes. He says Wilson doesn't process coverage well. 

Fantasy Football is about scoring fantasy points not winning games so these can be different evaluations. Davis Mills is the 5th for those interested. Waldman calls him "clean." 

 

 

 

[QB1]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

 

 

"Ex-Jets scout" Daniel Kelly is the dude who has a 3rd round grade on Wilson. His other interests include evangelical preacher. 

Matt Waldman has like a thousand page PDF breaks down every throw and at no point does he assign an NFL draft round grade to Zach Wilson's evaluation. It's hard to summarize. Waldman ranked Wilson the best for "Short range throws on the move" but "needs improvement" on ball security it all adds up to 6th among QBs for Fantasy Football purposes.

He does compare him to Mayfield also calls Wilson this year's Jordan Love/Drew Lock i.e. media hype over compensating for missing on Mahomes. He says Wilson doesn't process coverage well. 

Fantasy Football is about scoring fantasy points not winning games so these can be different evaluations. Davis Mills is the 5th for those interested. Waldman calls him "clean." 

 

 

 

Did you watch the video? 3rd rounder was a direct quote form Waldman....

[K_O_Brien]

 

[mrcoops]

17 minutes ago, Samtorobby47 said:

Hard to take anyone serious that ranks him a 3rd rounder when literally every other analyst has him at #2 overall. But who knows, maybe he's got the inside scoop and everyone really does hate him. These are the things we hope JD digs up.

Yeah, there are so many different 'takes' out there, it's impossible to know who to believe.

I trust JD & Co to make the decision, based on their own evaluations of the players. Listening to these 'experts' is bad for my blood pressure.

[JohnnyLV]

20 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Waldman is one the most respected minds in the community... Don't have agree at all, but respect his game. Any tactician in the history of everything will tell you to pay even more attention to those who present something way off pop opinion/consensus. 

I do realize he is respected because he tends to look at QBs through his own unique lens but the way he was discussing Wilson was not analysis at all it was just all of these circular arguments to back up thinking he is bad. No one has to like Wilson. You can think he is a 3rd rounder, but I see the same criticism a lot for Wilson., that he was peddling here. It goes something like this:

Zach makes a perfect pass for a deep gain. Analysis: This is a huge problem because someone else was more open.

Zach makes a perfect pass into double coverage where only his guy can make the play Analysis he got lucky and just threw up a 50/50 board

Zach throws (and explains on video) a perfect back shoulder throw (he loves them when QB is not turned at all) Analysis Wilson got lucky on a way underthrown board

If you go through his games 1x1, there is a part of you that thinks he is getting lucky, but he does it over and over and over until you realize he is just really that good. I think that is why he has shot up the boards.

And once again I prefer him (greatly) to Fields but I think Fields is a good QB as well. I think this year is different. We do not have artificially pumped up QBs due to need I think they are just all really good.

[maury77]

40 minutes ago, Sammybighead said:

Yes, that article you quote as proof positive that Saleh wants fields is highly dubious. First of all, it's written by a SanFran guy. Second, to quote you: "was a SF article that theorized". You say it yourself, the article theorized. Then you ask for a direct source indicating we're taking Wilson. There is none, just like there is no source indicating that Saleh prefers fields. But there are WAY MORE bits of evidence that indicate the entire staff is on board with Wilson who will ultimately be the pick. Yes, that SI article doesn't name Wilson as the #2 guy, but between the entire staff showing up to wilson's pro day, to steve young, to adam schefter, i'm connecting a more solid string of bread crumbs than you are.

Listen, I like fields (by the way, I also like Lance). I think these QBs are close and in an average year, Fields is going #1. But this isn't an average year and coaches have the luxury of also considering scheme fit. I think Wilson is the correct fit for this team right now. Does that mean he ultimately will be better than Fields? Of course not, nobody can guarantee that. But given a choice between 2 equally rated prospects, why handicap yourself by picking the square peg and forcing it into the round hole?

Uhm, I never said that Saleh wanted Fields, that was @bitonti. I was pointing out that you were calling Bit a liar while you also made a false statement. 

[Peace Frog]

6 minutes ago, K_O_Brien said:

 

I don’t think anyone doubts he has a very strong arm. 

It just doesn’t look as effortless as Wilson’s. 

[prime21]

Wilson.................................................................Fields 

Even if the consensus is Wilson, for people to say he is better than Fields by a mile just seems a little crazy.   Fields is highly skilled and had a great college career. He looked bad in couple of games this past season and that seems to have overshadowed all he has done well.  Wilson had a great year and has taken the scouts by storm.  If Fields sat out the year then he would be in the discussion for perhaps being the #1 pick.

 

[Morrissey]

2 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

I don’t think anyone doubts he has a very strong arm. 

It just doesn’t look as effortless as Wilson’s. 

Looks robotic and unnatural..  but can’t deny his accuracy 

[playtowinthegame]

Big Poppa Saleh wants Fields. He will fight Joe Douglas.