For those still wishing for Fields, get in here! We're going to his proday tomorrow again

[Paradis]

11 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

I do realize he is respected because he tends to look at QBs through his own unique lens but the way he was discussing Wilson was not analysis at all it was just all of these circular arguments to back up thinking he is bad. No one has to like Wilson. You can think he is a 3rd rounder, but I see the same criticism a lot for Wilson., that he was peddling here. It goes something like this:

Zach makes a perfect pass for a deep gain. Analysis: This is a huge problem because someone else was more open.

Zach makes a perfect pass into double coverage where only his guy can make the play Analysis he got lucky and just threw up a 50/50 board

Zach throws (and explains on video) a perfect back shoulder throw (he loves them when QB is not turned at all) Analysis Wilson got lucky on a way underthrown board

If you go through his games 1x1, there is a part of you that thinks he is getting lucky, but he does it over and over and over until you realize he is just really that good. I think that is why he has shot up the boards.

And once again I prefer him (greatly) to Fields but I think Fields is a good QB as well. I think this year is different. We do not have artificially pumped up QBs due to need I think they are just all really good.

This Is a thread about Fields 2nd pro day. 

[QB1]

2 minutes ago, Paradis said:

This Is a thread about Fields 2nd pro day. 

Who did we send? 

[JohnnyLV]

10 minutes ago, bitonti said:

 

 

"

Matt Waldman has like a thousand page PDF breaks down every throw and at no point does he assign an NFL draft round grade to Zach Wilson's evaluation. It's hard to summarize. Waldman ranked Wilson the best for "Short range throws on the move" but "needs improvement" on ball security it all adds up to 6th among QBs for Fantasy Football purposes.

 

 

 

 

See this is where I have to wonder what he is looking at. Even the average Joe six pack bar goer could watch Wilson and see he is better deep than short. Backed up with stats:

Then he states that he "needs improvement" on ball security? Seriously? He has fumbled 7 times total in 4 years(3 lost in his entire career) and threw 3 interceptions all year (one was a hail mary) and threw a turnover worthy ball 1.2% of the time (Fields was 2.8 and Lawrence was 3.6 so 2x and 3X times worse)

So he is ranking for FF but his analysis is just factually incorrect. But I guess Wilson just didnt fumble because he was lucky and played against bad competition.

 

[bitonti]

29 minutes ago, QB1 said:

Did you watch the video? 3rd rounder was a direct quote form Waldman....

i clicked it live and missed his zach wilson analysis

he did say he'd make a great 3rd rounder today and also said that was an alternate universe where the league valued QBs differently, which is a pretty good disclaimer

did you watch the video? Waldman has the dogged demeanor of a dude who has watched way more Zach Wilson than any of us

the wilson stuff starts around 14 mins

the main point was Wilson isn't all that great at decision making (passing up open receivers) and is getting away with Saturday throws that would be INTs on Sunday

the point about BYU teammates were that Ric Serritella has been interviewing prospects from every team and he asked all the BYU guys who they'd take to the NFL and none of them said Zach Wilson 

[Grandy]

BULLSEYE

[JohnnyLV]

5 minutes ago, Grandy said:

BULLSEYE

He does look better in those clips, throwing with more urgency more like a real game. Do we know which Jets staff are there?

[QB1]

10 minutes ago, bitonti said:

i clicked it live and missed his zach wilson analysis

he did say he'd make a great 3rd rounder today and also said that was an alternate universe where the league valued QBs differently, which is a pretty good disclaimer

did you watch the video? Waldman has the dogged demeanor of a dude who has watched way more Zach Wilson than any of us

the wilson stuff starts around 14 mins

the main point was Wilson isn't all that great at decision making (passing up open receivers) and is getting away with Saturday throws that would be INTs on Sunday

the point about BYU teammates were that Ric Serritella has been interviewing prospects from every team and he asked all the BYU guys who they'd take to the NFL and none of them said Zach Wilson 

I just feel he totally dismisses his arm talent. Baker Mayfield and Trubisky were limited from an arm talent perspective. 

He said Ric Serritella asked BYU players (not every team) which teammate they would take to the NFL to be their teammate... It's a loaded question... maybe it means Wilson isn't the funniest guy on the team? How many OSU players would answer Justin Fields to the same question? 

[football guy]

51 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Amen to this.  Amen.  This is what I've been saying for awhile.  The narrative around Fields is that of a smear campaign, for whatever reason, while other QBs have some things that are, at minimum, eyebrow raising.

 

Again - this is the narrative that many fans loathe. Dan Orlovsky's comments were certainly unnecessary gasoline on Fields' "draft stock" and that has sensationalized a narrative that doesn't exist among the vast majority of informed fans and analysts alike. Fields has a great head on his shoulders and has been working at this since he was a teenager. He's a talented player who displayed tremendous leadership qualities whether it being his in-game toughness or how he put himself out there petitioning that the BIG10 play football this year. Most people speak really highly of his mental makeup... I think what happens this time of year is scouts leak fake info to either prop up their own preferred prospect or strategically try to dampen a players stock (don't be fooled, this has happened plenty of times). 

As far as these quotes: you really think people wouldn't be freaking out if any prospect not-named-Lawrence said the same? Of course they would... it would be hot-button for Wilson, for Fields, for Lance, for Jones... but because Lawrence is and has been the golden goose with impeccable character traits and an established reputation, people don't care. No different than Tom Brady... the media loves his antics because he's Tom Brady. Every other QB would get sh*t for it. When people raise these counterpoints, it just reeks of whataboutaffirmitiveactism... I'm not going down that road any further. 

Here's honestly what it boils down to for him as a prospect:

• Has all the physical traits you look for 
• Has all the leadership traits you look for (I'm not putting weight into the one report)
• Displays toughness, poise, and is a winner. 
• Has good muscle memory and although his mechanics needs to be tweaked (who's doesn't), he has relatively clean passing mechanics that are very similar to Dak Prescott's (I think this is why he's often comped to him). 
• Plays in a system that minimalizes the responsibility of the QB pre-and-post snap. 
• Whether it's his fault or not, the coaches predetermined the vast majority of his reads... that doesn't mean his incapable of reading pass progressions, rather, he wasn't asked to, and never read the full field  
• Not much awareness against pass rush and while willing to take a big hit, he's doesn't show a feel for pass rush in the pocket 
• Holds onto the ball way too long... sometimes it's because he's waiting for his target to get some separation, other times it's because he's too focused on the rush, which forced him to drop his eyes from time-to-time (a big no-no!) prior to reestablishing his view of the field.  
• He is a "see-it, throw-it" QB at this point... he locks onto his target, and when he sees some separation he rips it... that's not a knock... there have been many QBs who were the same (see Josh Allen), but this bothers teams who require more anticipation throwing... this is also a biproduct of the OSU scheme, because of all the option-routes they incorporate into their passing concepts. 
• For a guy as athletic as he is, he doesn't thrive outside of structure... he's much more comfortable throwing when he can get his feet set and drive the ball to his intended target; not as loose of an arm/not a snap thrower (similar to Lawrence)... he looks the most natural from a clean pocket

I don't know why this has all become so hot button, but it has. Fields has the potential to be a great QB, but like every prospect, he's flawed. His biggest flaw is projection... how does he fit in your scheme? How long will it take him to shoulder NFL QB responsibilities without impacting his play speed? Will his internal processor speed up in an NFL offense/did OSU's offense make it appear slower than it is? Even his former QB coach Quincy Avery acknowledged that OSU doesn't prepare the QB to transition to the pro-game and often forces their QBs to stick on their read and throw it when they see that player gain some separation by design due to the overwhelming presence of option routes in their passing concepts... for those who follow Quincy Avery, it's not a stretch to say that he hyperfocuses on certain kinds of non-football related narratives, so it's not like he has some ulterior motive to acknowledge this. He says that Justin can do it, but OSU didn't allow him to. OK so if I'm evaluating, do I trust Quincy Avery or the film? 99 times out of 100, you trust the film, and that's what it shows: he's a see-it, throw-it QB who when asked to move to his 2nd or 3rd reads does it slowly, and won't uncork it unless he sees the guy is open (with exception to the deep ball, which he seems more comfortable throwing with some level of anticipation). 

I will keep preaching it from the mountaintops: I want to see Justin Fields succeed, just as I want to see all good prospects succeed. The Jaguars won't be that team, the Jets won't be that team. Maybe SF? Maybe ATL? Those are great landing spots given their ability to sit and develop the player. Still, I think his best fit is in New England. I think they have a coach in Josh McDaniels who has a pure vision to use Fields in a way that others won't as a hybrid run threat as well as a developing pocket-passer. That would suck as a Jets fan sure, but good for Fields. At least it would result in a fun rivalry for years to come. 

[T0mShane]

21 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

See this is where I have to wonder what he is looking at. Even the average Joe six pack bar goer could watch Wilson and see he is better deep than short. Backed up with stats:

Then he states that he "needs improvement" on ball security? Seriously? He has fumbled 7 times total in 4 years(3 lost in his entire career) and threw 3 interceptions all year (one was a hail mary) and threw a turnover worthy ball 1.2% of the time (Fields was 2.8 and Lawrence was 3.6 so 2x and 3X times worse)

So he is ranking for FF but his analysis is just factually incorrect. But I guess Wilson just didnt fumble because he was lucky and played against bad competition.

 

FTR, for all the talk that Wilson had no weapons, etc, two of his receivers just ran 4.3’s at the BYU Pro Day. Could explain the deep accuracy discrepancy

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, QB1 said:

I just feel he totally dismisses his arm talent. Baker Mayfield and Trubisky were limited from an arm talent perspective. 

He said Ric Serritella asked BYU players (not every team) which teammate they would take to the NFL to be their teammate... It's a loaded question... maybe it means Wilson isn't the funniest guy on the team? How many OSU players would answer Justin Fields to the same question? 

both players are good enough arms neither are Josh Allen arms. Mayfield is a playoff QB and heck Trubisky somehow went to the Pro Bowl 

Mayfield is a best case, the more concerning outcome is Drew Lock or Jordan Love i.e. player who were blatantly overdrafted 

[QB1]

Just now, bitonti said:

both players are good enough arms neither are Josh Allen arms. Mayfield is a playoff QB and heck Trubisky somehow went to the Pro Bowl 

Mayfield is a best case, the more concerning outcome is Drew Lock or Jordan Love i.e. player who were blatantly overdrafted 

lol OK, there is literally no comparison between Wilson & Trubisky/Mayfield in terms of their ability to throw. It's not just about pure arm strength, of course Mayfield and Trubisky have good arms. 

[bitonti]

5 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

He does look better in those clips, throwing with more urgency more like a real game. Do we know which Jets staff are there?

im going to try this again 

Saleh is at this one after missing 3.30 for the birth of his child 

not clear if JD is there or not

John Lynch and the SF crew missed Fields' first pro day for Mac Jones 

[kdels62]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

FTR, for all the talk that Wilson had no weapons, etc, two of his receivers just ran 4.3’s at the BYU Pro Day. Could explain the deep accuracy discrepancy

Did they? Which ones?

[bitonti]

3 minutes ago, QB1 said:

lol OK, there is literally no comparison between Wilson & Trubisky/Mayfield in terms of their ability to throw. It's not just about pure arm strength, of course Mayfield and Trubisky have good arms. 

our main disagreement here is that there's no actual proof Wilson has a better arm than Mayfield, Trubisky or anyone else in the class to be honest 

I'd describe Wilson's arm strength as OK to good and leave it at that. It's not exceptional howitzer. and, if these stats are to be believed his intermediate and deep accuracy is overrated 

[QB1]

Just now, bitonti said:

im going to try this again 

Saleh is at this one after missing 3.30 for the birth of his child 

not clear if JD is there or not

John Lynch and the SF crew missed Fields' first pro day for Mac Jones 

Saleh is there? Source?

[Paradis]

4 hours ago, Grandy said:

BULLSEYE

 

I just love the fit here, so much. This franchise needs a certain kind of profile/balls/personality that fits the post-Gase/Macc/Geno era need for a dramatic shake up

I just think he's the guy to do it. 

 

 

 

[Integrity28]

3 hours ago, football guy said:

Lots of passive aggressiveness in these parts lol. I'm the bad guy for firing back at someone who wrote "I think it's obvious if you're a Zachapono fans, you were probably storming the Capital with the rest of the insurrectionists wearing a Q somewhere on your person" in response to my analysis of Justin Fields. Sorry, it's not in my nature to act like some 'weak or servile man' (see what I did there, progress! ?) who will sit back and take it when a Jeff Spicoli wannabe makes those kind of slandering charges from behind the comfort of their computer screen, just as I'm sure you wouldn't either 

As far as my argumentative nature, I can neither confirm or deny whether I am "addicted to conflict"... Will do my best to keep it within the rules and as respectful as I'm capable of being ?

lol wut?

Responses like this ARE weak, and constant with you. ”I’m going to act right, except when I’m not.”

If you’re going to build permission for you to misbehave into your promises to behave, then stop acting like the victim every time you get made to look foolish.

Which is every time, for the record.

 

[QB1]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

our main disagreement here is that there's no actual proof Wilson has a better arm than Mayfield, Trubisky or anyone else in the class to be honest 

I'd describe Wilson's arm strength as OK to good and leave it at that. It's not exceptional howitzer. and, if these stats are to be believed his intermediate and deep accuracy is overrated 

You are confusing arm strength with throwing ability. Wilson can generate power without a base and is exceptional on the move. On the other hand Mayfield is a rythm passer who needs to step into his throws and excels on play action... and is known to be terribly inaccurate when forced to roll out. They are completely different passers even if Mayfield has just as strong of a fastball. 

[Dunnie]

[/url]  

2nd pro day

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, QB1 said:

You are confusing arm strength with throwing ability. Wilson can generate power without a base and is exceptional on the move. On the other hand Mayfield is a rythm passer who excels on play action and is know to be terribly inaccurate when forced to roll out. They are completely different passers even if Mayfield has just as strong of a fastball. 

his accuracy even on the move is not as great as people say it is. His strength are the short throws 

they are similar athletes, even if the comparison is not perfect. That's a best case for Wilson to be Baker Mayfield. 

the worst cases are very scary, indeed. 

one thing Sig says in the video, there's a huge distance between Wilson's ceiling and his floor, probably the widest gap of all the prospects. 

oh and I must have misread Saleh going to the 2nd proday - the Jets are there for sure per Albert Breer. Who in the Jets party not exactly sure 

[K_O_Brien]

 

 

[T0mShane]

10 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Did they? Which ones?

My bad. It was a DB and a receiver from the prior year. https://byucougars.com/story/football/1295922/wilson-christensen-headline-impressive-2021-byu-pro-day-performances

[QB1]

5 minutes ago, bitonti said:

his accuracy even on the move is not as great as people say it is. His strength are the short throws 

they are similar athletes, even if the comparison is not perfect. That's a best case for Wilson to be Baker Mayfield. 

the worst cases are very scary, indeed. 

one thing Sig says in the video, there's a huge distance between Wilson's ceiling and his floor, probably the widest gap of all the prospects. 

oh and I must have misread Saleh going to the 2nd proday - the Jets are there for sure per Albert Breer. Who in the Jets party not exactly sure 

They actually aren't similar in any way as athletes. I love how you say things so matter of fact, like its not a debate that the ceiling is Mayfield. 

 

 

 

[The Crusher]

3 hours ago, Grandy said:

BULLSEYE

Hell yeah Bitches!!  Go get em Justin!!!

[Stark]

20 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

I just love the fit here, so much. This franchise needs a certain kind of profile/balls/personality post-Gase/Macc/Geno/blackhole.... 

I just think he's the guy to do it. 

 

 

 

Lets go

[bitonti]

9 minutes ago, QB1 said:

They actually aren't similar in any way as athletes. I love how you say things so matter of fact, like its not a debate that the ceiling is Mayfield. 

 

 

 

how is he at jumping out of pools

you focused in on Baker but Trubisky at 6'2" is a truer comparison 

he's the same height as Carr and Dalton those are also similar comps

my point is he's not an elite athlete, he's only just OK or "Good enough" by NFL standards

he's not running a 4.4 like Fields or doing anything else at a world class level 

 

[K_O_Brien]

 

[QB1]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

how is he at jumping out of pools

you focused in on Baker but Trubisky at 6'2" is a truer comparison 

he's the same height as Carr and Dalton those are also similar comps

my point is he's not an elite athlete, he's only just OK or "Good enough" by NFL standards

he's not running a 4.4 like Fields or doing anything else at a world class level 

 

You don't have much of a point. Other than Kyler Murray and Lamar Jackson no NFL QBs is an above average NFL athlete. Wilson is most definitely an above average athlete for an NFL QB. He is also the same height and weight as aaron Rodgers, again you don't have much of a point. 

[T0mShane]

15 minutes ago, QB1 said:

They actually aren't similar in any way as athletes. I love how you say things so matter of fact, like its not a debate that the ceiling is Mayfield. 

 

 

 

 

[QB1]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

 

don't be a pedo 

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

 

FLASH POLL:

Q: Has Zach Wilson Ever Lifted A Weight? 

[K_O_Brien]

 

[legler82]

18 minutes ago, Stark said:

Lets go

The man looks good in green.

[Peace Frog]

18 minutes ago, bitonti said:

how is he at jumping out of pools

 

You have officially taken over “heel clicks” as the most nonsensical criticism of Zach with this comment. 

Well done Sir. 

[sourceworx]

4 hours ago, bitonti said:

Fields would be a very NYJ pick. This franchise has a scouting bias toward "the" Ohio State university for many years for better (Mangold) or worse (Gholston, the boar hunter). JD changed the way they grade but has kept many of the same scouts they've always had. 

Fields is not a Dwayne Haskins the dude got into Harvard and Yale. 

Saleh reportedly wanted to run it back with Darnold. Now Saleh reportedly likes Fields more than Wilson.  

if the "SF knows what NYJ is doing" rumor is true (and they share so many coaches, why not) then their trade up to 3 knowing Zach Wilson is going to be there makes way more sense than this Mac Jones business. 

and if all the above is just imagination, NYJ takes Zach Wilson, SF takes Fields, and that works for them too 

there's a model for Fields in the SFO Shanny WCO offense and it's Super Bowl appearance Colin Kaepernick 

 

I'm not sure if there is any validity to the Jets having a bias towards OSU players.

That said, JD seems to value players with exceptional physical traits. He may not adhere to this rule when choosing a QB because there's more to the position. But if he does, then the pick is going to be Fields.