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For those still wishing for Fields, get in here! We're going to his proday tomorrow again


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11 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

I do realize he is respected because he tends to look at QBs through his own unique lens but the way he was discussing Wilson was not analysis at all it was just all of these circular arguments to back up thinking he is bad. No one has to like Wilson. You can think he is a 3rd rounder, but I see the same criticism a lot for Wilson., that he was peddling here. It goes something like this:

Zach makes a perfect pass for a deep gain. Analysis: This is a huge problem because someone else was more open.

Zach makes a perfect pass into double coverage where only his guy can make the play Analysis he got lucky and just threw up a 50/50 board

Zach throws (and explains on video) a perfect back shoulder throw (he loves them when QB is not turned at all) Analysis Wilson got lucky on a way underthrown board

If you go through his games 1x1, there is a part of you that thinks he is getting lucky, but he does it over and over and over until you realize he is just really that good. I think that is why he has shot up the boards.

And once again I prefer him (greatly) to Fields but I think Fields is a good QB as well. I think this year is different. We do not have artificially pumped up QBs due to need I think they are just all really good.

This Is a thread about Fields 2nd pro day. 

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I find it hilarious that off platform throws are now a requirement for top QBs.  In 2017 Mahomes’ off platform brilliance was labeled as “bad mechanics”.  Now we would “like to see a few more examples

Great source

La Canfora saying it’s not for sure Wilson is the pick at 2 is pretty much 100% confirmation that Wilson is for sure the pick at 2

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10 minutes ago, bitonti said:

 

 

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Matt Waldman has like a thousand page PDF breaks down every throw and at no point does he assign an NFL draft round grade to Zach Wilson's evaluation. It's hard to summarize. Waldman ranked Wilson the best for "Short range throws on the move" but "needs improvement" on ball security it all adds up to 6th among QBs for Fantasy Football purposes.

 

 

 

 

See this is where I have to wonder what he is looking at. Even the average Joe six pack bar goer could watch Wilson and see he is better deep than short. Backed up with stats:

image.png.94208b0e74d809e751b7b8a04a7f24bc.png

Then he states that he "needs improvement" on ball security? Seriously? He has fumbled 7 times total in 4 years(3 lost in his entire career) and threw 3 interceptions all year (one was a hail mary) and threw a turnover worthy ball 1.2% of the time (Fields was 2.8 and Lawrence was 3.6 so 2x and 3X times worse)

So he is ranking for FF but his analysis is just factually incorrect. But I guess Wilson just didnt fumble because he was lucky and played against bad competition.

 

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29 minutes ago, QB1 said:

Did you watch the video? 3rd rounder was a direct quote form Waldman....

i clicked it live and missed his zach wilson analysis

he did say he'd make a great 3rd rounder today and also said that was an alternate universe where the league valued QBs differently, which is a pretty good disclaimer

did you watch the video? Waldman has the dogged demeanor of a dude who has watched way more Zach Wilson than any of us

the wilson stuff starts around 14 mins

the main point was Wilson isn't all that great at decision making (passing up open receivers) and is getting away with Saturday throws that would be INTs on Sunday

the point about BYU teammates were that Ric Serritella has been interviewing prospects from every team and he asked all the BYU guys who they'd take to the NFL and none of them said Zach Wilson 

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5 minutes ago, Grandy said:

BULLSEYE

He does look better in those clips, throwing with more urgency more like a real game. Do we know which Jets staff are there?

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10 minutes ago, bitonti said:

i clicked it live and missed his zach wilson analysis

he did say he'd make a great 3rd rounder today and also said that was an alternate universe where the league valued QBs differently, which is a pretty good disclaimer

did you watch the video? Waldman has the dogged demeanor of a dude who has watched way more Zach Wilson than any of us

the wilson stuff starts around 14 mins

the main point was Wilson isn't all that great at decision making (passing up open receivers) and is getting away with Saturday throws that would be INTs on Sunday

the point about BYU teammates were that Ric Serritella has been interviewing prospects from every team and he asked all the BYU guys who they'd take to the NFL and none of them said Zach Wilson 

I just feel he totally dismisses his arm talent. Baker Mayfield and Trubisky were limited from an arm talent perspective. 

He said Ric Serritella asked BYU players (not every team) which teammate they would take to the NFL to be their teammate... It's a loaded question... maybe it means Wilson isn't the funniest guy on the team? How many OSU players would answer Justin Fields to the same question? 

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21 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

See this is where I have to wonder what he is looking at. Even the average Joe six pack bar goer could watch Wilson and see he is better deep than short. Backed up with stats:

image.png.94208b0e74d809e751b7b8a04a7f24bc.png

Then he states that he "needs improvement" on ball security? Seriously? He has fumbled 7 times total in 4 years(3 lost in his entire career) and threw 3 interceptions all year (one was a hail mary) and threw a turnover worthy ball 1.2% of the time (Fields was 2.8 and Lawrence was 3.6 so 2x and 3X times worse)

So he is ranking for FF but his analysis is just factually incorrect. But I guess Wilson just didnt fumble because he was lucky and played against bad competition.

 

FTR, for all the talk that Wilson had no weapons, etc, two of his receivers just ran 4.3’s at the BYU Pro Day. Could explain the deep accuracy discrepancy

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1 minute ago, QB1 said:

I just feel he totally dismisses his arm talent. Baker Mayfield and Trubisky were limited from an arm talent perspective. 

He said Ric Serritella asked BYU players (not every team) which teammate they would take to the NFL to be their teammate... It's a loaded question... maybe it means Wilson isn't the funniest guy on the team? How many OSU players would answer Justin Fields to the same question? 

both players are good enough arms neither are Josh Allen arms. Mayfield is a playoff QB and heck Trubisky somehow went to the Pro Bowl 

Mayfield is a best case, the more concerning outcome is Drew Lock or Jordan Love i.e. player who were blatantly overdrafted 

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Just now, bitonti said:

both players are good enough arms neither are Josh Allen arms. Mayfield is a playoff QB and heck Trubisky somehow went to the Pro Bowl 

Mayfield is a best case, the more concerning outcome is Drew Lock or Jordan Love i.e. player who were blatantly overdrafted 

lol OK, there is literally no comparison between Wilson & Trubisky/Mayfield in terms of their ability to throw. It's not just about pure arm strength, of course Mayfield and Trubisky have good arms. 

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5 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

He does look better in those clips, throwing with more urgency more like a real game. Do we know which Jets staff are there?

im going to try this again 

Saleh is at this one after missing 3.30 for the birth of his child 

not clear if JD is there or not

John Lynch and the SF crew missed Fields' first pro day for Mac Jones 

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7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

FTR, for all the talk that Wilson had no weapons, etc, two of his receivers just ran 4.3’s at the BYU Pro Day. Could explain the deep accuracy discrepancy

Did they? Which ones?

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3 minutes ago, QB1 said:

lol OK, there is literally no comparison between Wilson & Trubisky/Mayfield in terms of their ability to throw. It's not just about pure arm strength, of course Mayfield and Trubisky have good arms. 

our main disagreement here is that there's no actual proof Wilson has a better arm than Mayfield, Trubisky or anyone else in the class to be honest 

I'd describe Wilson's arm strength as OK to good and leave it at that. It's not exceptional howitzer. and, if these stats are to be believed his intermediate and deep accuracy is overrated 

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Just now, bitonti said:

im going to try this again 

Saleh is at this one after missing 3.30 for the birth of his child 

not clear if JD is there or not

John Lynch and the SF crew missed Fields' first pro day for Mac Jones 

Saleh is there? Source?

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4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

our main disagreement here is that there's no actual proof Wilson has a better arm than Mayfield, Trubisky or anyone else in the class to be honest 

I'd describe Wilson's arm strength as OK to good and leave it at that. It's not exceptional howitzer. and, if these stats are to be believed his intermediate and deep accuracy is overrated 

You are confusing arm strength with throwing ability. Wilson can generate power without a base and is exceptional on the move. On the other hand Mayfield is a rythm passer who needs to step into his throws and excels on play action... and is known to be terribly inaccurate when forced to roll out. They are completely different passers even if Mayfield has just as strong of a fastball. 

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2 minutes ago, QB1 said:

You are confusing arm strength with throwing ability. Wilson can generate power without a base and is exceptional on the move. On the other hand Mayfield is a rythm passer who excels on play action and is know to be terribly inaccurate when forced to roll out. They are completely different passers even if Mayfield has just as strong of a fastball. 

his accuracy even on the move is not as great as people say it is. His strength are the short throws 

they are similar athletes, even if the comparison is not perfect. That's a best case for Wilson to be Baker Mayfield. 

the worst cases are very scary, indeed. 

one thing Sig says in the video, there's a huge distance between Wilson's ceiling and his floor, probably the widest gap of all the prospects. 

oh and I must have misread Saleh going to the 2nd proday - the Jets are there for sure per Albert Breer. Who in the Jets party not exactly sure 

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5 minutes ago, bitonti said:

his accuracy even on the move is not as great as people say it is. His strength are the short throws 

they are similar athletes, even if the comparison is not perfect. That's a best case for Wilson to be Baker Mayfield. 

the worst cases are very scary, indeed. 

one thing Sig says in the video, there's a huge distance between Wilson's ceiling and his floor, probably the widest gap of all the prospects. 

oh and I must have misread Saleh going to the 2nd proday - the Jets are there for sure per Albert Breer. Who in the Jets party not exactly sure 

They actually aren't similar in any way as athletes. I love how you say things so matter of fact, like its not a debate that the ceiling is Mayfield. 

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, QB1 said:

They actually aren't similar in any way as athletes. I love how you say things so matter of fact, like its not a debate that the ceiling is Mayfield. 

 

 

 

how is he at jumping out of pools

you focused in on Baker but Trubisky at 6'2" is a truer comparison 

he's the same height as Carr and Dalton those are also similar comps

my point is he's not an elite athlete, he's only just OK or "Good enough" by NFL standards

he's not running a 4.4 like Fields or doing anything else at a world class level 

 

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4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

how is he at jumping out of pools

you focused in on Baker but Trubisky at 6'2" is a truer comparison 

he's the same height as Carr and Dalton those are also similar comps

my point is he's not an elite athlete, he's only just OK or "Good enough" by NFL standards

he's not running a 4.4 like Fields or doing anything else at a world class level 

 

You don't have much of a point. Other than Kyler Murray and Lamar Jackson no NFL QBs is an above average NFL athlete. Wilson is most definitely an above average athlete for an NFL QB. He is also the same height and weight as aaron Rodgers, again you don't have much of a point. 

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15 minutes ago, QB1 said:

They actually aren't similar in any way as athletes. I love how you say things so matter of fact, like its not a debate that the ceiling is Mayfield. 

 

 

 

 

C48FAADB-49D3-4A0D-AC05-2952DDEA18F2.png

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18 minutes ago, bitonti said:

how is he at jumping out of pools

 

You have officially taken over “heel clicks” as the most nonsensical criticism of Zach with this comment. 

Well done Sir. 

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4 hours ago, bitonti said:

Fields would be a very NYJ pick. This franchise has a scouting bias toward "the" Ohio State university for many years for better (Mangold) or worse (Gholston, the boar hunter). JD changed the way they grade but has kept many of the same scouts they've always had. 

Fields is not a Dwayne Haskins the dude got into Harvard and Yale. 

Saleh reportedly wanted to run it back with Darnold. Now Saleh reportedly likes Fields more than Wilson.  

if the "SF knows what NYJ is doing" rumor is true (and they share so many coaches, why not) then their trade up to 3 knowing Zach Wilson is going to be there makes way more sense than this Mac Jones business. 

and if all the above is just imagination, NYJ takes Zach Wilson, SF takes Fields, and that works for them too 

there's a model for Fields in the SFO Shanny WCO offense and it's Super Bowl appearance Colin Kaepernick 

 

I'm not sure if there is any validity to the Jets having a bias towards OSU players.

That said, JD seems to value players with exceptional physical traits. He may not adhere to this rule when choosing a QB because there's more to the position. But if he does, then the pick is going to be Fields.

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