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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I'll be honest, I think that is far from a safe presumption on your part.

Gase is a completely incompetent coach at a spectacular level, but that doesn't change the reality that every other QB he has ever coached performed better than Darnold has, even if none other than Manning were particularly impressive themselves.

Despite everyone's inexplicably constant refusal to accept it, the mostly likely true answer is that more than one person was responsible for their own sucking at the same time, just as all of the evidence shows to be the case.

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Just another article stating how horrible a decision Gase was... "I had nothing but a positive experience with him," Kalil said of Darnold. "I saw a guy who wanted to be good and didn't take anyt

Ah, yes the waste of 10 million comes out to poop on us.....thanks Kalil for all your input to the Jets team in 2019 https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/former-jets-veteran-predicts-sam-darnold-re

I mean, he wasn't really shading Wilson. He was defending Darnold and shading Gase.

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I do wonder what it will be like for Sam handing the ball off too Mcaffrey after handing it to Gore. He may climax each time. I’m slightly concerned for him. 

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9 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Gase is a completely incompetent coach at a spectacular level, but that doesn't change the reality that every other QB he has ever coached performed better than Darnold has, even if none other than Manning were particularly impressive themselves.

He nearly destroyed Tannehill's career single handedly. 

And Tannehill had more time (4 full seasons) to learn to be an NFL QB before Gase arrived. 

Sam got one year with Bowles (ugh) then immediately into career-killer Gase's clutches..

We'll see if Sam has a Tannehill like resurgence, or if it really is that bad soon enough.

Gase's time as a O-Co with Manning and Culter are easy to discount, both were old Vets who likely told Gase what to do, not the other way around (not matter what nice things Manning says about Gase publicly).

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Despite everyone's inexplicably constant refusal to accept it, the mostly likely true answer is that more than one person was responsible for their own sucking at the same time, just as all of the evidence shows to be the case.

I don't think anyone is refuting that, actually.  

I think it's just going to be interesting to see what Sam does and how he does it in Carolina.

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1 minute ago, Warfish said:

He nearly destroyed Tannehill's career single handedly. 

And Tannehill had more time (4 full seasons) to learn to be an NFL QB before Gase arrived. 

Sam got one year with Bowles (ugh) then immediately into career-killer Gase's clutches..

We'll see if Sam has a Tannehill like resurgence, or if it really is that bad soon enough.

Gase's time as a O-Co with Manning and Culter are easy to discount, both were old Vets who likely told Gase what to do, not the other way around (not matter what nice things Manning says about Gase publicly).

I don't think anyone is refuting that, actually.  

I think it's just going to be interesting to see what Sam does and how he does it in Carolina.

Don't get me wrong, I think he'll likely be marginally better than he was last year, more in line with his unimpressive, but less awful, prior 2 seasons.  There's just nothing in particular to suggest he will suddenly transform into a good QB, which is kind of what we'd want the Jets to be looking for, despite how foreign that may seem for them.

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3 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

What is  your "agenda"?  Are you bashing Wilson? Supporting Darnold? Bashing Gase? Bashing JD? 

Stupid takes. His agenda is Stupid Takes....

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3 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Ah, yes the waste of 10 million comes out to poop on us.....thanks Kalil for all your input to the Jets team in 2019

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/former-jets-veteran-predicts-sam-darnold-rebound-says-new-york-didnt-give-sam-a-lot-of-room-to-grow/

"Everybody ooh'd and ahh'd about (Zach Wilson) at BYU's pro day when he rolled out left and threw across to the right," Kalil said, referring to Darnold's presumptive successor in New York. "And it's like, I've seen Sam do that a million times. It's funny, there's game tape of Sam doing that exact thing.

 

Who really cares what Khalil thinks..

But I have never seen Sam throw the ball 55 yards (in the air) going to other way on game film.  I've seen him make that play throwing 25 yards...which is still very impressive, but these guys wanna say things like that - and have people just think it's true.

There is a big difference between 25 and 55 yards. 

I'm not knocking Sam, he has impressive talent - I really do wish him well...and I'm also not saying it's not a heck of a lot harder to do things in a game than in a pre rehearsed, scripted show....But if you're going to say something it should be real.  

What Khalil said is simply not accurate.

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3 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Ah, yes the waste of 10 million comes out to poop on us.....thanks Kalil for all your input to the Jets team in 2019

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/former-jets-veteran-predicts-sam-darnold-rebound-says-new-york-didnt-give-sam-a-lot-of-room-to-grow/

"Everybody ooh'd and ahh'd about (Zach Wilson) at BYU's pro day when he rolled out left and threw across to the right," Kalil said, referring to Darnold's presumptive successor in New York. "And it's like, I've seen Sam do that a million times. It's funny, there's game tape of Sam doing that exact thing.

 

Full marks on your subject being very transparent.

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48 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Gase, I hope will never see an NFL sideline in ANY form ever again.  That is how bad I think he actually is.  

Actually, I hope Gase becomes the head coach of the Patriots in the next year or so.

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3 hours ago, paulyjet said:

Yes... Sam can make every throw. But imo...

He lacks something....

That competitive edge....

The fire...

Something...

 

He can’t read a defense

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Counting his last year at USC Sam has played badly in 4 straight years.

I know this is a  crazy thought but maybe he’s not very good?

Could he maybe be a decent top 20-25 starter in the right system? Perhaps but that’s not what I’m shooting for.

You don’t win SB’s with those Qb’s

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3 hours ago, jetsrule1969 said:

EXACTLY, couldn't agree more. 

First, Kevinc is a clown who needs to be listed as a troll. Second, if you watch what Phil Simms said about this you'll understand it for what it is. He said that the throws are no where near the same thing. The throw that Zach made was a LOT HARDER than anything Sam did in that particular instance or ever did before. Phil has some credibility on this subject since he was the one who came out and said that Sam should NOT be the first pick in the draft BEFORE ANYONE ELSE DID and again he nailed his QB analysis. Given Phil's track record I'm feeling really good about the Zach selection.

For what it's worth, That "Ooooo - Ahhhhh" throw of Wilson's that everyone is talking about was almost identical to Sam's very 1st pass of his pro career - When he threw that pick 6 lmao!

 

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1 hour ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Tough to understand, I know, because Gase played football himself.....in high school.

Just amazing what a “mark” that Chris Johnson must be, partly due to silver spoon and the other half, not too bright.

First he gets sold on some bum who looks like the “guy at the end of the bar”, a prototype, in a failed Scout in Maccagnan, makes him GM.

Then Gase shows up, I’m sure he didn’t bring “little King of Queens guy” with him to the interviews but if it were me he fooled into hiring him, the second I saw his flunky in tow with him I’d be right away like this...”Oh?!?!?....Wooh, slow down, who is this guy with you?!!?”....then after Gase explains....”Look I’m sorry, there has been mistake, your offer is being withdrawn, if you have a problem with that, call your lawyer”.

You've got me literally lol'ing picturing Gase walking into the interview with The Hobbit at his heels. The Hobbit is carrying several big binders with what looks like important offensive game planning material. At closer examination, the binders are empty except for a black and white head shot of Adam with his googly eyes, a cover letter from Peyton Manning and a printout from ESPN of Manning's career stats with "I did this" written in crayon. 

They offer Gase water. He accepts and instructs them to put Hobbit's water in a bowl. 

Chris Johnson: "Welcome to the team!!"

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3 hours ago, undertow said:

If he has 1.5 seconds to throw the ball for the next 3 years he won't....not sure why this is so complicated.  Go look at tape when Wilson faces pressure all game he looks exactly like Darnold playing for the Jets.

For 3 straight years Sam Darnold had just 1.5 seconds to throw the ball. Right. Even when he was top 5 in the NFL in time to throw, pushing 3 seconds (and not because he was running around effectively to buy more time like Jackson, Watson, Allen, etc.), even then he had 1.5 seconds to throw the ball. 

lolz

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1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

For 3 straight years Sam Darnold had just 1.5 seconds to throw the ball. Right. Even when he was top 5 in the NFL in time to throw, pushing 3 seconds (and not because he was running around effectively to buy more time like Jackson, Watson, Allen, etc.), even then he had 1.5 seconds to throw the ball. 

lolz

You are arguing with me that Darnold had a good offensive line and proper support?

lolz x 2 

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4 minutes ago, undertow said:

You are just arguing for the sake of arguing.....either that or you have the IQ of a baked potato.

I have the IQ of a baked potato because I don't acknowledge Darnold had only 1.5 seconds to throw even when he was taking an average of 3 seconds to throw as a pocket QB. Gotcha.

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Games Passing
Rk Player Tm Age Pos G GS Cmp Att Yds Sk PktTime Bltz Hrry Hits Prss Prss% Scrm Yds/Scr
1 Matt Ryan ATL 35 QB 16 16 407 626 4581 41 2.6 204 55 70 166 24.3% 16 6.5
2 Tom Brady TAM 43 QB 16 16 401 610 4633 21 2.4 161 34 58 113 17.8% 4 2.0
3 Ben Roethlisberger PIT 38 QB 15 15 399 608 3803 13 2.1 175 42 51 106 17.0% 3 7.0
4 Justin Herbert LAC 22 QB 15 15 396 595 4336 32 2.4 170 85 70 187 28.7% 25 5.6
5 Patrick Mahomes * KAN 25 QB 15 15 390 588 4740 22 2.6 141 62 59 143 22.0% 40 7.3
6 Josh Allen * BUF 24 QB 16 16 396 572 4544 26 2.6 244 64 47 137 21.9% 29 7.9
7 Kyler Murray * ARI 23 QB 16 16 375 558 3971 27 2.4 156 55 24 106 16.7% 51 8.4
8 Russell Wilson * SEA 32 QB 16 16 384 558 4212 47 2.6 206 65 67 179 27.2% 53 8.7
9 Jared Goff LAR 26 QB 15 15 370 552 3952 23 2.5 185 42 54 119 19.9% 22 4.5
10 Deshaun Watson * HOU 25 QB 16 16 382 544 4823 49 2.5 168 75 47 171 26.1% 62 6.4
11 Philip Rivers IND 39 QB 16 16 369 543 4169 19 2.3 124 37 37 93 16.5% 1 3.0
12 Matthew Stafford DET 32 QB 16 16 339 528 4084 38 2.4 179 45 39 122 21.0% 16 7.3
13 Aaron Rodgers *+ GNB 37 QB 16 16 372 526 4299 20 2.5 168 33 28 81 14.2% 24 6.2
14 Derek Carr LVR 29 QB 16 16 348 517 4103 26 2.5 173 56 30 112 19.8% 23 5.4
15 Kirk Cousins MIN 32 QB 16 16 349 516 4265 39 2.6 181 56 78 173 30.2% 17 8.1
16 Teddy Bridgewater CAR 28 QB 15 15 340 492 3733 31 2.3 154 42 38 111 19.8% 37 7.4
17 Baker Mayfield CLE 25 QB 16 16 305 486 3563 26 2.7 179 49 26 101 18.8% 25 6.1
18 Ryan Tannehill TEN 32 QB 16 16 315 481 3819 24 2.5 161 36 61 121 23.0% 20 7.4
19 Daniel Jones NYG 23 QB 14 14 280 448 2943 45 2.5 200 56 55 156 30.3% 22 6.5
20 Drew Lock DEN 24 QB 13 13 254 443 2933 19 2.6 148 53 46 118 24.4% 22 6.0
21 Carson Wentz PHI 28 QB 12 12 251 437 2620 50 2.6 167 35 64 149 29.3% 22 8.4
22 Joe Burrow CIN 24 qb 10 10 264 404 2688 32 2.3 138 30 47 109 24.1% 16 5.2
23 Drew Brees NOR 41 QB 12 12 275 390 2942 13 2.4 92 13 33 59 14.6% 2 1.5
24 Lamar Jackson BAL 23 QB 15 15 242 376 2757 29 2.5 104 49 24 102 22.5% 49 7.2
25 Cam Newton NWE 31 QB 15 15 242 368 2657 31 2.6 178 48 30 109 26.0% 20 9.3
26 Sam Darnold NYJ 23 QB 12 12 217 364 2208 35 2.4 143 43 38 116 27.3% 26 8.0
27 Andy Dalton DAL 33 qb 11 9 216 333 2170 24 2.3 119 15 25 64 17.2% 15 5.7
28 Gardner Minshew II JAX 24 qb 9 8 216 327 2259 27 2.4 90 38 20 85 22.5% 24 6.6
29 Nick Mullens SFO 25 qb 10 8 211 326 2437 19

 

according to this sam had 2.4 seconds in the pocket

now if you compare him to others sam wasnt under the distress that we all think. look at the blitzs. even when factoring in the 4 games sam missed Josh Allen and Russ Wilson got blitzed way more.

our line might not have been the best but to say thats the reason sam was so bad when others who had less time and did more is wrong. 

see the problem with sam is he is so well liked nobody wants to speak bad of him. and Gase is not a likable guy. so who are you going to throw under the bus? yes Gase was a bad coach but to blame him for everything and Sam is treated like he did nothing wrong is nuts.

 

 

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4 hours ago, undertow said:

If he has 1.5 seconds to throw the ball for the next 3 years he won't....not sure why this is so complicated.  Go look at tape when Wilson faces pressure all game he looks exactly like Darnold playing for the Jets.

All QB's look bad with unblocked blitzers in their face and an horror show of a OL that can't pass or run block. If Wilson is going to have a chance JD needs to draft OL early and often. 

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3 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

If Darnold and Wilson have the same skillset than the scales tip toward drafting Wilson and resetting the clock.

The flip side of that is you pass up the opportunity to trade the #2 OA pick for a haul of picks that could plug the many holes on the team. Sam was relatively cheap at 25m for the next two years.

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3 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

Don't get me wrong, I think he'll likely be marginally better than he was last year, more in line with his unimpressive, but less awful, prior 2 seasons.  There's just nothing in particular to suggest he will suddenly transform into a good QB, which is kind of what we'd want the Jets to be looking for, despite how foreign that may seem for them.

He’s in a good position to become a good QB, if he can. He has the full support of the Panthers, something he never really had on the Jets.  
 
I think a good Sam Darnold would look a lot like Eli or Favre, a guy who you can win with but have to live with the turnovers, too. I think that was Gase’s failing with the kid. You have a QB whose best traits involve playing off script, and he demands that Sam stick to his ****ty script. Given the freedom to create, I think he can be better. Having a better cast around him is not going to hurt. I like him, and I’m gonna root for him. I hope Zach Wilson turns out to be a lot better, though. 

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3 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

Gase is a completely incompetent coach at a spectacular level, but that doesn't change the reality that every other QB he has ever coached performed better than Darnold has, even if none other than Manning were particularly impressive themselves.

Despite everyone's inexplicably constant refusal to accept it, the mostly likely true answer is that more than one person was responsible for their own sucking at the same time, just as all of the evidence shows to be the case.


One thing is for sure: all will be answered when we see how he does on the Panthers because there can be no excuses on that team. 

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10 hours ago, doitny said:
Games Passing
Rk Player Tm Age Pos G GS Cmp Att Yds Sk PktTime Bltz Hrry Hits Prss Prss% Scrm Yds/Scr
1 Matt Ryan ATL 35 QB 16 16 407 626 4581 41 2.6 204 55 70 166 24.3% 16 6.5
2 Tom Brady TAM 43 QB 16 16 401 610 4633 21 2.4 161 34 58 113 17.8% 4 2.0
3 Ben Roethlisberger PIT 38 QB 15 15 399 608 3803 13 2.1 175 42 51 106 17.0% 3 7.0
4 Justin Herbert LAC 22 QB 15 15 396 595 4336 32 2.4 170 85 70 187 28.7% 25 5.6
5 Patrick Mahomes * KAN 25 QB 15 15 390 588 4740 22 2.6 141 62 59 143 22.0% 40 7.3
6 Josh Allen * BUF 24 QB 16 16 396 572 4544 26 2.6 244 64 47 137 21.9% 29 7.9
7 Kyler Murray * ARI 23 QB 16 16 375 558 3971 27 2.4 156 55 24 106 16.7% 51 8.4
8 Russell Wilson * SEA 32 QB 16 16 384 558 4212 47 2.6 206 65 67 179 27.2% 53 8.7
9 Jared Goff LAR 26 QB 15 15 370 552 3952 23 2.5 185 42 54 119 19.9% 22 4.5
10 Deshaun Watson * HOU 25 QB 16 16 382 544 4823 49 2.5 168 75 47 171 26.1% 62 6.4
11 Philip Rivers IND 39 QB 16 16 369 543 4169 19 2.3 124 37 37 93 16.5% 1 3.0
12 Matthew Stafford DET 32 QB 16 16 339 528 4084 38 2.4 179 45 39 122 21.0% 16 7.3
13 Aaron Rodgers *+ GNB 37 QB 16 16 372 526 4299 20 2.5 168 33 28 81 14.2% 24 6.2
14 Derek Carr LVR 29 QB 16 16 348 517 4103 26 2.5 173 56 30 112 19.8% 23 5.4
15 Kirk Cousins MIN 32 QB 16 16 349 516 4265 39 2.6 181 56 78 173 30.2% 17 8.1
16 Teddy Bridgewater CAR 28 QB 15 15 340 492 3733 31 2.3 154 42 38 111 19.8% 37 7.4
17 Baker Mayfield CLE 25 QB 16 16 305 486 3563 26 2.7 179 49 26 101 18.8% 25 6.1
18 Ryan Tannehill TEN 32 QB 16 16 315 481 3819 24 2.5 161 36 61 121 23.0% 20 7.4
19 Daniel Jones NYG 23 QB 14 14 280 448 2943 45 2.5 200 56 55 156 30.3% 22 6.5
20 Drew Lock DEN 24 QB 13 13 254 443 2933 19 2.6 148 53 46 118 24.4% 22 6.0
21 Carson Wentz PHI 28 QB 12 12 251 437 2620 50 2.6 167 35 64 149 29.3% 22 8.4
22 Joe Burrow CIN 24 qb 10 10 264 404 2688 32 2.3 138 30 47 109 24.1% 16 5.2
23 Drew Brees NOR 41 QB 12 12 275 390 2942 13 2.4 92 13 33 59 14.6% 2 1.5
24 Lamar Jackson BAL 23 QB 15 15 242 376 2757 29 2.5 104 49 24 102 22.5% 49 7.2
25 Cam Newton NWE 31 QB 15 15 242 368 2657 31 2.6 178 48 30 109 26.0% 20 9.3
26 Sam Darnold NYJ 23 QB 12 12 217 364 2208 35 2.4 143 43 38 116 27.3% 26 8.0
27 Andy Dalton DAL 33 qb 11 9 216 333 2170 24 2.3 119 15 25 64 17.2% 15 5.7
28 Gardner Minshew II JAX 24 qb 9 8 216 327 2259 27 2.4 90 38 20 85 22.5% 24 6.6
29 Nick Mullens SFO 25 qb 10 8 211 326 2437 19

 

according to this sam had 2.4 seconds in the pocket

now if you compare him to others sam wasnt under the distress that we all think. look at the blitzs. even when factoring in the 4 games sam missed Josh Allen and Russ Wilson got blitzed way more.

our line might not have been the best but to say thats the reason sam was so bad when others who had less time and did more is wrong. 

see the problem with sam is he is so well liked nobody wants to speak bad of him. and Gase is not a likable guy. so who are you going to throw under the bus? yes Gase was a bad coach but to blame him for everything and Sam is treated like he did nothing wrong is nuts.

 

 

First half of 2020, in particular, the line was a disaster. No preseason, very limited camp, and none of the 5 had been on the same line together before. It wasn't a top 5 line or anything after that, but it was noticeably better after that. Gase's offense, which demanded near-perfection all around to be what it was in Denver, further did him no favors. 

If he was putting up even decent numbers outside of that stretch, it's an easier single-culprit reason for the offense's level of suck. Every fan wanted him to succeed. The problem is he was bad even factoring in the admittedly sucky circumstances.

Before this year's OL shakeup?

 

image.png

Hey, the Jets' OL was no asset - no one's arguing otherwise - but this tall tale that this was the worst pass-protecting line in the history of pass protection grows still taller each time it's told. 1.5 seconds to throw. C'mon. 

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6 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Worst oline the the league.

Worst weapons in the league.

Worst FA signings in the leauge

By FAR the worst coach in the leauge

By Far the worst GM in the league most of his tenure

Crap bust of a 22 year old QB!!!!

Yeah but Flacco had a decent game facing a mediocre pats team in a loss

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51 minutes ago, Big_Slick said:

The flip side of that is you pass up the opportunity to trade the #2 OA pick for a haul of picks that could plug the many holes on the team. Sam was relatively cheap at 25m for the next two years.

Trade for Garropolo 

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4 hours ago, Wit said:

I do wonder what it will be like for Sam handing the ball off too Mcaffrey after handing it to Gore. He may climax each time. I’m slightly concerned for him. 

Be concerned for the Panthers' laundry room instead, putting it that way. 

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12 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Ah, yes the waste of 10 million comes out to poop on us.....thanks Kalil for all your input to the Jets team in 2019

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/former-jets-veteran-predicts-sam-darnold-rebound-says-new-york-didnt-give-sam-a-lot-of-room-to-grow/

"Everybody ooh'd and ahh'd about (Zach Wilson) at BYU's pro day when he rolled out left and threw across to the right," Kalil said, referring to Darnold's presumptive successor in New York. "And it's like, I've seen Sam do that a million times. It's funny, there's game tape of Sam doing that exact thing.

 

and this means absolutely nothing 

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7 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

First half of 2020, in particular, the line was a disaster. No preseason, very limited camp, and none of the 5 had been on the same line together before. It wasn't a top 5 line or anything after that, but it was noticeably better after that. Gase's offense, which demanded near-perfection all around to be what it was in Denver, further did him no favors. Meanwhile Brock Osweiler looked like a credible starter in that same system, so it's more than just that alone. 

If he was putting up even decent numbers outside of that stretch, it's an easier single-culprit reason for the offense's level of suck. Every fan wanted him to succeed. The problem is he was bad even factoring in the admittedly sucky circumstances.

Before this year's OL shakeup?

 

image.png

Hey, the Jets' OL was no asset - no one's arguing otherwise - but this tall tale that this was the worse pass-protecting line in the history of pass protection grows still taller each time it's told. 1.5 seconds to throw. C'mon. 

the thing is Sperm, its that we all watched every single Jet game. we seen Sam run for his life. but i bet none of us watched every single game in the NFL. so we think we had the worst of the worst OL in the game.

its the... grass is always greener on the other side saying..

but with the stats that you put up, compared to other QBs Sam had time to throw. 

and with my stats he wasn't no where near the most blitzed QB. 

yes we didn't have a good OL. but i could put more stats that show we weren't no where near the worst

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