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JD Needs an OL Upgrade in the Draft, after that he can BAP it the rest of the way


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We're having a lot of conversations about what positions should be picked where, but when I look at it, I think Joe Douglas has himself set up about as well as he could be for the the most impactful d

Would love to see a small move back from 23 and grab Creed in the 26-28 area and best available G at 34.  Might be a reach for a C but I don’t want to risk losing him. 

The OL thing is super complicated. I think if guys are taken at 23/34 you’re actually probably looking at a short-term downgrade for a long-term upgrade. Right now the full line is back from last year

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I agree.  I think at 23 and 34 we will go OL and corner depending on who falls where.  Then the rest of the way I have no issue going BPA.  I rounds 3-4 I think you can grab another OL and WR/RB. The later rounds you can swing for the fences on guys who slipped like Bryce Hall did last year 

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2 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

I agree.  I think at 23 and 34 we will go OL and corner depending on where falls where.  Then the rest of the way I have no issue going BPA.  I rounds 3-4 I think you can grab another OL and WR/RB. The later rounds you can swing for the fences on guys who slipped like Bryce Hall did last year 

Yeah, I don't think he needs to target a CB, either, not until he's in the second half of the draft and hasn't taken one yet. Then he can start to target positions groups he missed earlier. Once the OL is set, though, he's not gonna miss with the BAP at Edge, WR, OL, LB, or even RB (which some would love more than me). I just don't see the pressing need where he needs immediate rookie help after QB & OL. 

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QB is the #2. OL guard who can start and kick out to OT after Fant's contract is over s/b the #23 (or a small trade up) and I'd love to take a center at #34 if one is there.

Otherwise I want to see BPA at WR, CB and lastly edge. I don't want to see a RB, LB or TE before day three.

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4 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Would love to see a small move back from 23 and grab Creed in the 26-28 area and best available G at 34. 

Might be a reach for a C but I don’t want to risk losing him. 

That would surprise me. I think he prefers more versatile OL, and knows he has a potential hole at RT down the line. I just don't see a pure center at his second pick, or doubling up on OL with the two. 

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3 minutes ago, Big_Slick said:

QB is the #2. OL guard who can start and kick out to OT after Fant's contract is over s/b the #23 (or a small trade up) and I'd love to take a center at #34 if one is there.

Otherwise I want to see BPA at WR, CB and lastly edge. I don't want to see a RB, LB or TE before day three.

I prefer Edge to CB, and wouldn't mind one as early as #23 as long as they hit the OL with the next pick. But this is what I mean, I think he's gonna be very free to stick to his board once he's pretty set on the OL. There are still CBs available in free agency, and I'd bet he's in conversation with more than one of them. 

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I agree, #23 has got to be OL. I see more of a chance that JD trades back, rather than up. Hopeful he feels he can get his guy in the late 20’s and add a pick, but doesn’t everyone?

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2 minutes ago, Lith said:

Agree with most of this post, but the one position group that I think needs an upgrade that does not seem to be mentioned much is LB.  We have Mosley, Davis and Cashman, and not much else that fits a 4-3 scheme.  We have added a lot of pieces to the front 4, but the LB position is still a question mar to me.  Mosley has barely played in two years and Cashman is always hurt.  Would not want to take an off ball LB with any of our first three picks, but one of our 3rd rounders or a 4th to find a rotational guy who can play as a rookie seems like something we should do.  Good news is that this is a draft that is deep in LBs, so we should be able to fill the need without reaching too early in the draft.

Switching to the 4-3, in a league where defenses are in their nickel packages the majority of the time now will mean that the team will probably most often be in a 4-2-5 formation. But, sure, if a LB is the BAP in the third round, that'll be a solid pick. 

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8 minutes ago, slats said:

That would surprise me. I think he prefers more versatile OL, and knows he has a potential hole at RT down the line. I just don't see a pure center at his second pick, or doubling up on OL with the two. 

The doubling up is just my fantasy, I know it’s not going to happen. 

But to me C is such a lynchpin position, nail that one and fill in the rest. 
 

 

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I've been playing with various simulators a lot and my favorite/preferred outcomes include 

1. OL (AVT, Humphrey or Jenkins) at 23 and 34 (one of the aforementioned with Davis in the mix)

2. OL at 23, Toney at 34

 

 

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4 minutes ago, OilfieldJet said:

I agree, #23 has got to be OL. I see more of a chance that JD trades back, rather than up. Hopeful he feels he can get his guy in the late 20’s and add a pick, but doesn’t everyone?

Lol exactly.  Would love to see him move back a couple slots. 

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The Wilson at 2 pick sure makes OL top priority. Maybe even a release valve WR that can do backfield work in the Deebo Samuel mold. A quick separator that Zach can lean on. An extension of the running game really that could make his life easier in the beginning. Teven Jenkins and Kadarius Toney would be great to follow up the Wilson pick with.

The haul of picks we have next year (Two 1s, Two 2s, One 3, Two 4s, etc) cannot be overlooked. This team will not be "hole free" after this draft/off season. But if we can build something on offense around the new QB that would be huge. Knowing that we have the draft capital to bring in a lot more talent next year. Plus a QB on a rookie deal still giving the team the cap room to nab a couple more free agents especially once they see that this new Saleh-led Jets is a place you want to be.

Give it to JD. In his first year he got rid of Gase, hired possibly the top head coaching prospect out there, accumulated lots of premium draft picks, and hand picked a QB (cost certain rooking contract) that is an ideal fit for the new offense that will be installed. A three year plan is really what is needed to fix this franchise. I would say he is on schedule. This roster will look a lot different after next years offseason and draft. Imagine adding say two more legit free agents and seven draft picks in the first four rounds in next years draft.

In short. Get this offense on track. Put Wilson in a position to succeed. OT Teven Jenkins. WR Kadarius Toney. FB Tommy Tremble. RB Khalil Herbert. TE Jacob Harris. And add in a CB and LB in there as well. That would be the type of offense-laden draft I would like to see this year. Then resign Poole for another year and see if there are some depth signings that make sense. Possibly a veteran or two to round things out.

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I like Hall but he's far from an established starter. The rest of the CB depth chart is uninspiring to say the least. Same could be said LB. Even if those positions aren't premium in the new scheme, they're going to need a couple contributors, if not outright starters, in the draft. Otherwise you're counting on Bless Austin and Blake Cashman to play a ton of meaningful snaps.

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19 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Who are the stud Gaurds in this class .. inseriously have no idea.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

Mostly guys who will likely be gone before the Jets pick (Slater, Vera-Tucker) or don’t fit the outside zone scheme as well as they do gap.

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Cb is a huge weakness. More than others. We should have a good d line.

The bottom line is we need a qb at 2 and the 23 n 34 need to be Ol Ol or Ol Cb or Cb Ol.

NO rbs, lbs or tes 

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Usually is be against trading up with so many holes to fill on the roster but this is a small draft class, last year 1,900 players signed up to agents for the draft this year only around 650 players signed to agencies, so 6th and 7th round picks this year would be undrafted free agents other years. With no combine and private work outs it makes it even more of a difficult year to truly assess players so I want Joe to go get the guys he wants this year, primarily the lines and corners and use next year's draft for complimentary pieces like WR and RB.

 

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So, we have all heard the term "it all starts up front"...and that goes for both sides of the ball.  We've pretty well setup our D line.  Our O line needs the attention.  After Wilson/Fields, why not just use our picks on O linemen?  I know that sounds nutso, but IT ALL STARTS UP FRONT and everyone behind it should benefit from it.  And if we can't assemble a top 5 (or better) O line with all those picks, we don't deserve to be in the football business.  QB, RB, TE and WR's should all be better for having a monster O line.

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46 minutes ago, jetsfaneh said:

In short. Get this offense on track. Put Wilson in a position to succeed. OT Teven Jenkins. WR Kadarius Toney. FB Tommy Tremble. RB Khalil Herbert. TE Jacob Harris. And add in a CB and LB in there as well. That would be the type of offense-laden draft I would like to see this year. Then resign Poole for another year and see if there are some depth signings that make sense. Possibly a veteran or two to round things out.

What I'm saying is that this type of position targeting is unnecessary this year. I'd be okay with an Edge as early as #23, but it's no great loss if he waits until the comp pick he got from Carolina to draft one. But, IMHO, the BAP strategy is the best way to fill a roster, and with picks #23 - #107, sticking firmly to his board is the best strategy. Basically, not passing on better prospects at CB, Edge, or LB because he's too focused on just offense. Or if Travis Etienne is there at #34, and he's graded significantly higher than his next guy, he shouldn't pass on the RB just because I prefer he not take one high (although that would be a good place to trade down for me). 

I think Douglas is a big trust the process kinda guy. I think he set himself up to trust his board regardless of position - particularly in the first half of the draft. He doesn't have to get all the way there in this draft. No one's honestly thinking playoffs this season, and he has another free agency period and loaded draft next year to finish up. 

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1 hour ago, slats said:

That would surprise me. I think he prefers more versatile OL, and knows he has a potential hole at RT down the line. I just don't see a pure center at his second pick, or doubling up on OL with the two. 

Since Jets claimed they liked what they saw of C McGovern in the 2nd half of last seasons, and we have capable backups there, one would think the highest they would spend a pick on C would be like the 4th round and that player would likely need to have some exp. at G as well.

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4 hours ago, slats said:

We're having a lot of conversations about what positions should be picked where, but when I look at it, I think Joe Douglas has himself set up about as well as he could be for the the most impactful draft of his career. 

At #2, it's the QB, obviously. Then somewhere between #23 & #34, he needs an upgrade on the OL. I think there's a possibility that he makes a small move up from #23 for a specific player, but he has to find a plug & play starter. I like Vera-Tucker and Jenkins there -on paper, I'm not pretending to be a scout here- because they both could step in at RG this year with the potential to kick out to RT when Fant has no guaranteed money left on his deal. 

Once that's done, there's not really a position group that needs help much more than any other one. People are concerned about the RBs and CBs, but I have to imagine that the Jets new coaching staff feels pretty good about their young players and the way their schemes will make it easier for them to succeed. JD did a lot of work on the front seven in preparation for the conversion to a 4-3 base, taking care of the needs there, for the most part. 

TE might be a need, but that's not a position you would particularly go after before the third round, anyway. One position that I'd probably try to target before the end of the third would be slot receiver. This is a strong draft for the position, and it would be nice to draft next year's starter, let Crowder walk, and maybe collect a halfway decent comp pick. 

For the most part, though, he's set up well to stick to his board. Make his moves up & down as he sees fit, and take the BAP just about right down the line. 

Actually, and I've been saying this for a long time, he can go BAP 100% of the way. That's the silver lining to this team and this draft. He does NOT have to go OL right after #2 but the Jets have so many needs literally everywhere you look, that he can pretty much trade down or up and no matter where he's picking there will ALWAYS be a BAP and a player that fulfills a need as well. He just needs to ensure that the players he's choosing are #1 Talented and #2 Can IMMEDIATELY provide good play.

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4 hours ago, slats said:

We're having a lot of conversations about what positions should be picked where, but when I look at it, I think Joe Douglas has himself set up about as well as he could be for the the most impactful draft of his career. 

At #2, it's the QB, obviously. Then somewhere between #23 & #34, he needs an upgrade on the OL. I think there's a possibility that he makes a small move up from #23 for a specific player, but he has to find a plug & play starter. I like Vera-Tucker and Jenkins there -on paper, I'm not pretending to be a scout here- because they both could step in at RG this year with the potential to kick out to RT when Fant has no guaranteed money left on his deal. 

Once that's done, there's not really a position group that needs help much more than any other one. People are concerned about the RBs and CBs, but I have to imagine that the Jets new coaching staff feels pretty good about their young players and the way their schemes will make it easier for them to succeed. JD did a lot of work on the front seven in preparation for the conversion to a 4-3 base, taking care of the needs there, for the most part. 

TE might be a need, but that's not a position you would particularly go after before the third round, anyway. One position that I'd probably try to target before the end of the third would be slot receiver. This is a strong draft for the position, and it would be nice to draft next year's starter, let Crowder walk, and maybe collect a halfway decent comp pick. 

For the most part, though, he's set up well to stick to his board. Make his moves up & down as he sees fit, and take the BAP just about right down the line. 

Where have I had a conversation like this before.

QB at one seems a lock.  But it depends on what player falls to #23 that you take offense.  Again, it makes NO sense to take a guard or a center at #23 if someone like Kwity Paye falls to #23.  We would still have three more picks in the top 100, and there is still a chance to grab a starting guard and centre in those picks.

I would personally love to see a guard, a center, a CB and either a pass-rusher or TE with the first four picks after our QB at #2.  But I am not tied to how he does it, if someone worth taking is there at a specific pick.

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4 hours ago, slats said:

We're having a lot of conversations about what positions should be picked where, but when I look at it, I think Joe Douglas has himself set up about as well as he could be for the the most impactful draft of his career. 

At #2, it's the QB, obviously. Then somewhere between #23 & #34, he needs an upgrade on the OL. I think there's a possibility that he makes a small move up from #23 for a specific player, but he has to find a plug & play starter. I like Vera-Tucker and Jenkins there -on paper, I'm not pretending to be a scout here- because they both could step in at RG this year with the potential to kick out to RT when Fant has no guaranteed money left on his deal. 

Once that's done, there's not really a position group that needs help much more than any other one. People are concerned about the RBs and CBs, but I have to imagine that the Jets new coaching staff feels pretty good about their young players and the way their schemes will make it easier for them to succeed. JD did a lot of work on the front seven in preparation for the conversion to a 4-3 base, taking care of the needs there, for the most part. 

TE might be a need, but that's not a position you would particularly go after before the third round, anyway. One position that I'd probably try to target before the end of the third would be slot receiver. This is a strong draft for the position, and it would be nice to draft next year's starter, let Crowder walk, and maybe collect a halfway decent comp pick. 

For the most part, though, he's set up well to stick to his board. Make his moves up & down as he sees fit, and take the BAP just about right down the line. 

 that sound just about right joe dougles has to it right

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The benefit of drafting a new starting C early in the draft is that the Jets improve two spots on the line at once.  McGovern slides out to one of the G spots.  So, you have a young, stud C and a better G.  Also, lots of versatility b/c McGovern can always slide back to C if the young guy gets injured.  The Jets will probably be able to draft their #1 ranked center, if they want, at pick 23.  It is possible that their #1 guy is still there at 34, but he may not. They might think they are fine at C right now, but I hope they don't think that.

They also need to take an OT early as well.  Fant is mediocre at best at RT, and he'll probably have to play some LT when Becton needs a "breather."  He needed several last year, so whoever the Jets third OT is will likely get to start some this year.  Again, at 23 there will likely be some good prospects, but maybe 34 is a better value slot for an OT.

At any rate, I hope JD takes an OL of some sort at 23 (OT or C), and then another either in the 2nd or 3rd round.  He needs to jump start a new OL build right now. With Becton, a new C, and a new RT, he'll have done so.

I'd love to see #2 Wilson, #23 best C on the board, and #34 best OT on the board.

After that, BAP.

 

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4 hours ago, slats said:

That would surprise me. I think he prefers more versatile OL, and knows he has a potential hole at RT down the line. I just don't see a pure center at his second pick, or doubling up on OL with the two. 

Mangold went late 1st, and that worked our pretty well, Creed does not make it past steelers at 24, who just had pouncey retire

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5 hours ago, slats said:

We're having a lot of conversations about what positions should be picked where, but when I look at it, I think Joe Douglas has himself set up about as well as he could be for the the most impactful draft of his career. 

At #2, it's the QB, obviously. Then somewhere between #23 & #34, he needs an upgrade on the OL. I think there's a possibility that he makes a small move up from #23 for a specific player, but he has to find a plug & play starter. I like Vera-Tucker and Jenkins there -on paper, I'm not pretending to be a scout here- because they both could step in at RG this year with the potential to kick out to RT when Fant has no guaranteed money left on his deal. 

Once that's done, there's not really a position group that needs help much more than any other one. People are concerned about the RBs and CBs, but I have to imagine that the Jets new coaching staff feels pretty good about their young players and the way their schemes will make it easier for them to succeed. JD did a lot of work on the front seven in preparation for the conversion to a 4-3 base, taking care of the needs there, for the most part. 

TE might be a need, but that's not a position you would particularly go after before the third round, anyway. One position that I'd probably try to target before the end of the third would be slot receiver. This is a strong draft for the position, and it would be nice to draft next year's starter, let Crowder walk, and maybe collect a halfway decent comp pick. 

For the most part, though, he's set up well to stick to his board. Make his moves up & down as he sees fit, and take the BAP just about right down the line. 

This!!!!!  Build from inside out.  Jets have good dline, build the o line now.  I want 23 and 34 to be a RT and beat available interior lineman. You will have your line and an for the next 5 years.  The rest of the draft, plug in some holes and build depth elsewhere.  Next year you can focus on skill positions and other things.

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Now let me preface this by saying we absolutely need to draft some oline early and/or often in this draft.  But Ryan Kalil’s comments that were posted over the last few days regarding Gase’s system being a poor scheme fit to personnel and his overall scheme rigidity as well got me thinking.  
We made a lot of oline moves last year that turned out ok.  The line was improved overall but players that were expected to shine (Fant, GVR, McGovern) ended up being serviceable but not great.  These guys were all good/very good players with previous teams.  Did they suddenly just start to stink?

So how much did scheme fit/rigidity contribute to poor oline play?  Perhaps a reason why JD hasn’t been more aggressive for oline is because they expect a bounce back year from these guys?

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1 hour ago, Rob Moore said:

Now let me preface this by saying we absolutely need to draft some oline early and/or often in this draft.  But Ryan Kalil’s comments that were posted over the last few days regarding Gase’s system being a poor scheme fit to personnel and his overall scheme rigidity as well got me thinking.  
We made a lot of oline moves last year that turned out ok.  The line was improved overall but players that were expected to shine (Fant, GVR, McGovern) ended up being serviceable but not great.  These guys were all good/very good players with previous teams.  Did they suddenly just start to stink?

So how much did scheme fit/rigidity contribute to poor oline play?  Perhaps a reason why JD hasn’t been more aggressive for oline is because they expect a bounce back year from these guys?

This is kinda what I’m saying, although I do think an OL upgrade is necessary. If Saleh and LaFluer are the guys, I think we’re gonna see what a difference coaching can make. All of the schemes that they’re bringing in seem designed to make it easier on the OL, QB, and secondary. I don’t think they see the gaping holes on the roster that a lot of fans see. 

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Just now, slats said:

 I don’t think they see the gaping holes on the roster that a lot of fans see. 

Hard to blame us.

But I'm skeptically optimistic that these guys are going to scheme protection, wide open guys and running lanes.

I don't think I've been as excited about an offensive coaching staff in decades as I am now.

 

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Since Jets claimed they liked what they saw of C McGovern in the 2nd half of last seasons, and we have capable backups there, one would think the highest they would spend a pick on C would be like the 4th round and that player would likely need to have some exp. at G as well.
This is Jetsy thinking here ..

You only draft a position if you have a chance to improve what you already got.

If you draft a prospect graded out to improve on McGovern ... you do it and you move him to the support role.

Otherwise you take one super low for depth .. like 6th-7th round....... unless he plays guard too and grades out well in that role.

Otherwise... you dont go there ..... with other glaring needs that require addressing.


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