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The Jets Aren't Going to be Good This Year


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28 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Big upset wins? Haha , yeah, 

Not only did the Browns and Rams make the playoffs, they each won their first playoff games convincingly.

So if pathetic Adam Gase could get a Jets team under Sam Darnold to beat two playoff teams, the expectation should be that Robert Saleh, Mike LaFleur, and Zach Wilson leading Joe Douglas' vastly improving roster should too.  

Gase got no mulligan for a 7 win "easy schedule" season, neither shall Saleh, especially since he has a better team.

SAR I

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12 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Not only did the Browns and Rams make the playoffs, they each won their first playoff games convincingly.

So if pathetic Adam Gase could get a Jets team under Sam Darnold to beat two playoff teams, the expectation should be that Robert Saleh, Mike LaFleur, and Zach Wilson leading Joe Douglas' vastly improving roster should too.  

Gase got no mulligan for a 7 win "easy schedule" season, neither shall Saleh, especially since he has a better team.

SAR I

Beside you, who are these people who arent going to give Saleh a mulligan?

And when you do not give him a mulligan, outside of posting on a message board, what will you do?

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46 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Not only did the Browns and Rams make the playoffs, they each won their first playoff games convincingly.

So if pathetic Adam Gase could get a Jets team under Sam Darnold to beat two playoff teams, the expectation should be that Robert Saleh, Mike LaFleur, and Zach Wilson leading Joe Douglas' vastly improving roster should too.  

Gase got no mulligan for a 7 win "easy schedule" season, neither shall Saleh, especially since he has a better team.

SAR I

Didn’t that happen after Dowell “ the hobbit” Loggins took over play calling? 
 

 

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42 minutes ago, SAR I said:

How as a Jets fan can you possibly believe that this is Year 1 of our rebuild?  This has been going on since 2017, Suck For Sam, remember?

Boggles the mind the way so many act like this is some brand new day, some brand new strategy.  The rebuild should be ending.  It's not starting.

SAR I

I don’t believe it’s the first year, I recognize that it’s the second year. Maccagnan was a failure. Unfortunately, your Ayn Randian hero, Chris Johnson, did not have the courage his privilege should’ve provided him with to fire Mac and Bowles at the same time. Instead he had the failed Mac help him to hire the failed Adam Gase. Hopefully he stumbled into something when the failed Gase helped recruit Joe Douglas here as GM, but that’s yet to be seen being that he’s only in the second year of building the team (I know this because he was hired less than two years ago). 
 
When he got here in June of 2019 there was little he could do but try to find band-aids for a roster that’d been in a plane crash. 
 
The following year he tried to build around the QB by adding OL in free agency and drafting a LT and WR in the first two rounds, but it was too little too late for Gase and Darnold. 
 
So now here in year two of Joe Douglas’ build, he’s hired his own head coach and will be bringing in his own QB. This team bears no resemblance to the team he took over, and that remodel will continue next year with the extra picks he’s collected trading away Mac’s failed picks. We’ll see what happens. 

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2 hours ago, Biggs said:

I was talking about the coaching staff.  Obviously the talent game, FA and the draft is part of the competition.  

Based on FA the Pats probably moved the needle more than we did.  If we pick Zach and he pans out we make a big leap. 

For sure. If Zach pans out, that’s huge. I believe the team will be a better, more competitive team this season. I just can’t see a better than .500 record which it appears like most around here seem to be expecting. I’m pretty excited with the new staff and I’ve been relatively pleased with JD. 

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11 minutes ago, slats said:

When he got here in June of 2019 there was little he could do but try to find band-aids for a roster that’d been in a plane crash. 

I liked this analogy very much. I don't fully agree with it, and outside of making favorable trades - which we like - his player-selection track record thus far is pretty bad even if I'm sympathetic to the setting & strategy. But liked the analogy still, as there's a lot of truth to it. Nobody attempts to overhaul the whole OL in one offseason if it wasn't already a plane crash disaster. 

At the same time it's hard to fully distinguish some bad results as correlation, causation, or results influenced by prior causation. e.g. I certainly don't think the line is all that, but I think it looked significantly worse than it could/should have for reasons I've enumerated a few times already.

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48 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Didn’t that happen after Dowell “ the hobbit” Loggins took over play calling? 

Yes, every W was because of someone other than Gase and every L was because of Gase, LOL.

We fired Gase and Loggains.  We hired Saleh and LeFleur.  I look forward to an 8-10 win season.

SAR I

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36 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Yes, every W was because of someone other than Gase and every L was because of Gase, LOL.

We fired Gase and Loggains.  We hired Saleh and LeFleur.  I look forward to an 8-10 win season.

SAR I

Heavy is the head that wears the crown, it all go’s back to Chris Johnson. Can’t blame Gase for being Gase. Everyone knew what we were getting with him, except Wunderkind  Chris, same guy that let Macc trash another draft on his way out. Let’s hope the brothers Johnson have learn their lesson. Until then, it’s nobodies fault but theirs. 

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29 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I liked this analogy very much. I don't fully agree with it, and outside of making favorable trades - which we like - his player-selection track record thus far is pretty bad even if I'm sympathetic to the setting & strategy.

Well said.

30 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Nobody attempts to overhaul the whole OL in one offseason if it wasn't already a plane crash disaster. 

The Maccagnan "plane crash disaster" won 7 games with a terrible coaching staff and a favorable schedule.  As this is now a Douglas "not plane crash disaster" and we have a strong coaching staff and a favorable schedule, our expectation at a minimum should be an 8 win campaign.  None of this "4 wins is progress!" BS that the Douglas lickers are angling for.

SAR I

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3 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Heavy is the head that wears the crown, it all go’s back to Chris Johnson. Can’t blame Gase for being Gase. Everyone knew what we were getting with him, except Wunderkind  Chris, same guy that let Macc trash another draft on his way out. Let’s hope the brothers Johnson have learn their lesson. Until then, it’s nobodies fault but there’s. 

Agreed.  Fortunately it's 2021, and compared to 2019 we have a better GM, better head coach, better offensive coordinator, better defensive coordinator, better quarterback, better/healthier roster, and an easier schedule.

So if it was 7 wins in 2019 it's certainly 8+ wins in 2021.  That should be the expectation.

SAR I

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21 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Heavy is the head that wears the crown, it all go’s back to Chris Johnson. Can’t blame Gase for being Gase. Everyone knew what we were getting with him, except Wunderkind  Chris, same guy that let Macc trash another draft on his way out. Let’s hope the brothers Johnson have learn their lesson. Until then, it’s nobodies fault but there’s. 

hell yeah now that woody johnson is back at the helm it's nothing but good times from here on out

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24 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Agreed.  Fortunately it's 2021, and compared to 2019 we have a better GM, better head coach, better offensive coordinator, better defensive coordinator, better quarterback, better/healthier roster, and an easier schedule.

So if it was 7 wins in 2019 it's certainly 8+ wins in 2021.  That should be the expectation.

SAR I

Ain’t better till we test drive it son! Johnson’s been hoodwinked before. Fingers crossed. 

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35 minutes ago, SAR I said:

That's the takeaway from your post.  I look forward to an 8-10 win season.

SAR I

What you actually look forward to is bitching about not achieving an unreasonable expectation. Unfortunately, your premise is as transparent as you are. 

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1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Well said.

The Maccagnan "plane crash disaster" won 7 games with a terrible coaching staff and a favorable schedule.  As this is now a Douglas "not plane crash disaster" and we have a strong coaching staff and a favorable schedule, our expectation at a minimum should be an 8 win campaign.  None of this "4 wins is progress!" BS that the Douglas lickers are angling for.

SAR I

Meh. The last game was because it was Jets starters against Buffalo's backups, seeing how Buffalo had already clinched their slot, and still almost lost. That's really 6 wins out of 15. A lucky coin-toss PI call against Miami is the only reason that wasn't 5. 

They did have that 3-game string of 34 pts, against just about the 3 of the league's trashiest defenses. Within them, the Raiders coming of eking out a win vs the Ryan Finley Bengals before losing 5 of their last 6 (including the Jets game) as they'd only beat the Chargers who lost 6 of their last 7 themselves. The other two were the 3-13 Redskins and the 4-12 Giants (two of whose wins came against those Redskins, so they both couldn't lose both games). Also among the wins was Pittsburgh with the great Delvin Hodges starting. Somehow I don't think that our 16 points would've been enough if Roethlisberger was starting there. 

I'm not taking those wins away so much as showing these are things that could have easily gone another way in another year even with that same roster. 

I'm not Douglas's biggest booster here, but he was dealt a crap hand as GM. A bad roster with bad coaching - including being saddled with contracts like Bell's and Enunwa's and more - isn't undone in a year. Put another way, that team was up & coming because of a 7-9 record like the 2013 Jets were up & coming because of an 8-8 record. Quick turnovers to this degree are hard to do anyway. They're that much harder when the coaches are bad, and all the roster turnover got so little time with the coaches & each other anyway. 

He screwed up a couple draft picks, was way overrated for Becton & for trading down and still getting Mims; Hall looked great for a 6th rounder not great compared to the rest of the league's better starters; and I think he was trying to get a little bit pregnant with swing tackle hedge like Fant over a sure upper-end starter like Conklin; never mind choosing Perriman over Anderson. He traded Adams which was always a trade for the future not the upcoming season, and then 4 days later Mosley announced he was sitting out the season.  

It's also hard to fault him for some bad FA results like McGovern (objectively considered the best center available at the time), or the need to have so many OLmen turn over in the first place. Or the overall bare cupboard that Maccagnan left him in terms of a youth pipeline. And in fairness, despite some valid criticism, few draft classes reach their peak only during a rookie season (let alone when half the class misses half the season to injury, after missing a real/full rookie preseason due to covid). 

We'll see much more the results of what Douglas is over the coming season or two; he's not going anywhere before 2023 at the earliest. 

So far I just like the process, but not the results. Hopefully that changes, because that was said of Idzik, too. 

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2 hours ago, slats said:

What you actually look forward to is bitching about not achieving an unreasonable expectation. Unfortunately, your premise is as transparent as you are. 

If Saleh wins less than 8 games this year we've got bigger problems than your theories on my demeanor.  Gase won 7 games with a worse roster and a tougher schedule.  We should be thinking wildcard.

SAR I

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1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Meh. The last game was because it was Jets starters against Buffalo's backups, seeing how Buffalo had already clinched their slot, and still almost lost. That's really 6 wins out of 15. A lucky coin-toss PI call against Miami is the only reason that wasn't 5. 

The lack of a kicker and Darnold missing the first quarter of the season cost us 10-6, it was actually quite possible.

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I'm not taking those wins away so much as showing these are things that could have easily gone another way in another year even with that same roster. 

It's early but this year's schedule looks to be no harder than 2019.  And there's no way we have those kind of vast injuries again.  With a healthy rocket-armed quarterback, a Shanahan popgun offense, a vastly superior head coach, and a rebuilt Douglas roster, we shouldn't have expectations of anything less than an 8 win season.  

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I'm not Douglas's biggest booster here, but he was dealt a crap hand as GM.

And so was Gase.  And he was shown no mercy.  Cobra Kai never dies, Joe Douglas.

SAR I

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23 minutes ago, SAR I said:

If Saleh wins less than 8 games this year we've got bigger problems than your theories on my demeanor.  Gase won 7 games with a worse roster and a tougher schedule.  We should be thinking wildcard.

SAR I

Classic line in the sand post. 
 
Gase didn’t win five games all of last year, where was the line in the sand when he fell short of 5-0? Back when you seemed to feel pretty good about what Joe Douglas was doing? Feels a little different this year. 

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Just now, slats said:

Classic line in the sand post. 
 
Gase didn’t win five games all of last year, where was the line in the sand when he fell short of 5-0? Back when you seemed to feel pretty good about what Joe Douglas was doing? Feels a little different this year. 

It's common knowledge that the Jets only got to 7 wins because of an easy schedule.  

This year, we have an easy schedule.

So if Gase got us to 7 wins in 16 tries, Saleh should get us to 8 wins in 17.  Especially since its two years later and Mike Maccagnan is long gone and Joe Douglas' fingerprints are all over this roster.

I felt good about Douglas last March because we were coming off of a 6-2 finish, had oodles of cap space, and premium draft picks.  Seemed logical that he'd build upon that.  Go Jets!

He then had a crappy FA period and a mediocre draft and got rid of the most talented players on the team.  Hello 2-14.  And here in 2021, again, oodles of cap room, mediocre FA period.  I'm not saying Douglas won't succeed here, but the read to date is not good and there's no reason for optimism at this moment outside of a crapshoot quarterback.

SAR I

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1 hour ago, slats said:

Classic line in the sand post. 
 
Gase didn’t win five games all of last year, where was the line in the sand when he fell short of 5-0? Back when you seemed to feel pretty good about what Joe Douglas was doing? Feels a little different this year. 

5-0   HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA

Gase is an alpha (while hes sitting on the bench alone staring at his awful plays) HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA

If you flipped a coin w/ SAR 50 times hed go 0-50.  He is wrong literally about every Jet take he has.

The fact he doesnt like Douglas is great cause as usual, hes wrong about that too.

Adam gase.  HAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHA

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13 hours ago, SAR I said:

The lack of a kicker and Darnold missing the first quarter of the season cost us 10-6, it was actually quite possible.

It's early but this year's schedule looks to be no harder than 2019.  And there's no way we have those kind of vast injuries again.  With a healthy rocket-armed quarterback, a Shanahan popgun offense, a vastly superior head coach, and a rebuilt Douglas roster, we shouldn't have expectations of anything less than an 8 win season.  

And so was Gase.  And he was shown no mercy.  Cobra Kai never dies, Joe Douglas.

SAR I

Nonsense.

Darnold wouldn't have won any of those games anyway.

Gase was terrible. His circumstances were lousy, but he made then worse.

Impossible to say what a schedule will be before knowing injuries. This time in 2019 we thought we were playing Roethlisberger late in the season. 2015's impossible scheduling luck of weather and significant opponent injuries even more so.

However I'm not yet writing the season off as another that earns a top 6 draft pick again. If three team is generally healthy this year, Wilson should have to be Geno-Darnold bad.

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2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

However I'm not yet writing the season off as another that earns a top 6 draft pick again. If three team is generally healthy this year, Wilson should have to be Geno-Darnold bad.

That's all I'm saying.  We should have expectations of a 2019-like season without the injuries.

That would be 8-ish wins.

SAR I

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12 minutes ago, SAR I said:

That's all I'm saying.  We should have expectations of a 2019-like season without the injuries.

That would be 8-ish wins.

SAR I

Meh, bad teams still win 6-7 games (occasionally 8 games, like the 2013 Jets). The difference is often negligible to a 4-win team; just the ball bouncing the right vs. wrong way.

They still sucked in 2019, and resembled a 4-5 win team far more than a 10-11 win team. After they'd supposedly turned it around they got smoked by an 0-11 Bengals team ffs. 

I've got plenty of criticism of Douglas's first 1.5 years to go around, but the ruination of a budding winner Maccagnan handed off to him isn't one of them. 

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1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Meh, bad teams still win 6-7 games (occasionally 8 games, like the 2013 Jets). The difference is often negligible to a 4-win team; just the ball bouncing the right vs. wrong way.

They still sucked in 2019, and resembled a 4-5 win team far more than a 10-11 win team. After they'd supposedly turned it around they got smoked by an 0-11 Bengals team ffs. 

I've got plenty of criticism of Douglas's first 1.5 years to go around, but the ruination of a budding winner Maccagnan handed off to him isn't one of them. 

This team would be better off with Leonard Williams, Jamal Adams, and Robbie Anderson.  We can spin the draft capital and cap space all we want, but these were homegrown Jets and Douglas kicked them to the curb.  Maybe it was because they weren't there, maybe its because it sent a very loud FU signal to the rest of the team, but 2-14 is the second worst record in team history and Joe Douglas shouldn't be allowed to skate on by for doing nothing but turning us into an expansion team.  The cuts were too deep.  The person asked to build the roster back up so far has laid an egg.  

SAR I

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23 hours ago, SAR I said:

How as a Jets fan can you possibly believe that this is Year 1 of our rebuild?  This has been going on since 2017, Suck For Sam, remember?

Boggles the mind the way so many act like this is some brand new day, some brand new strategy.  The rebuild should be ending.  It's not starting.

SAR I

There’s truth in that SAR, but we can only go on from here. Exercise a little optimism, what the heck. 

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53 minutes ago, Jetluv58 said:

There’s truth in that SAR, but we can only go on from here. Exercise a little optimism, what the heck. 

+1

All it will take is universal acclaim on NFL Network, ESPN, and Fox Sports that Douglas nailed the draft to flip me from the dark side.  Fingers crossed.

SAR I

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On 4/22/2021 at 11:36 AM, SAR I said:

Not only did the Browns and Rams make the playoffs, they each won their first playoff games convincingly.

So if pathetic Adam Gase could get a Jets team under Sam Darnold to beat two playoff teams, the expectation should be that Robert Saleh, Mike LaFleur, and Zach Wilson leading Joe Douglas' vastly improving roster should too.  

Gase got no mulligan for a 7 win "easy schedule" season, neither shall Saleh, especially since he has a better team.

SAR I

They hated Gase because he Waac unfriendly to the press corps (whom they also allegedly hate) and they love Saleh because they think Saleh would have a beer with them in an Applebee’s. As we saw with Rex, that’s all they care about

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3 hours ago, SAR I said:

This team would be better off with Leonard Williams, Jamal Adams, and Robbie Anderson.  We can spin the draft capital and cap space all we want, but these were homegrown Jets and Douglas kicked them to the curb.  Maybe it was because they weren't there, maybe its because it sent a very loud FU signal to the rest of the team, but 2-14 is the second worst record in team history and Joe Douglas shouldn't be allowed to skate on by for doing nothing but turning us into an expansion team.  The cuts were too deep.  The person asked to build the roster back up so far has laid an egg.  

SAR I

Jimmy Johnson was 1-15 in his first year. He did okay. Joe Douglas is facing a similar build from scratch. 
 
And again, Jamalcontent and Leo for $35-40M/year between them? Justify that over two firsts, two thirds, and a fifth, please. You’ve avoided the question once, so I’m assuming you can’t. You just wanna stake your claim as an early JD basher. 

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

They hated Gase because he Waac unfriendly to the press corps (whom they also allegedly hate) and they love Saleh because they think Saleh would have a beer with them in an Applebee’s. As we saw with Rex, that’s all they care about

I've got good money here that says you often order a salad with no dressing as your entree like a bitch. 

Eat some Applebee's. It'll put hair on your tiny balls. 

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12 minutes ago, slats said:

Jimmy Johnson was 1-15 in his first year. He did okay. Joe Douglas is facing a similar build from scratch. 
 
And again, Jamalcontent and Leo for $35-40M/year between them? Justify that over two firsts, two thirds, and a fifth, please. You’ve avoided the question once, so I’m assuming you can’t. You just wanna stake your claim as an early JD basher. 

Besides the Cowboys, can you think of another rebuild from scratch that was successful?  Sure, Drew Brees can fall in the laps of New Orleans or the Patriots can discover Tom Brady, I'm talking about a complete turnaround from scratch.  I can't think of any.  Maybe the 2000 Bucs.  Point is, its a longshot.

Signing Jamal and Leonard would have been above market price, but that's what we'd need to spend to bring in their replacements.  To date, we've gotten cheaper but we've also gotten weaker.  Justify that over the picks?  I will when we see what the picks turn out to be.  Right now Douglas' track record is mediocre at best.

I don't think we needed to throw the baby out with the bathwater and I don't recall an NFL team cutting talent this deeply so quickly.  It's a very risky strategy.  

SAR I

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5 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Besides the Cowboys, can you think of another rebuild from scratch that was successful?  Sure, Drew Brees can fall in the laps of New Orleans or the Patriots can discover Tom Brady, I'm talking about a complete turnaround from scratch.  I can't think of any.  Maybe the 2000 Bucs.  Point is, its a longshot.

So your position is that the Jets can never be good?  
 
The Giants were nowhere before Parcells. 
The 49ers were nowhere before Walsh. 
The Packers were a wasteland by the time Holmgren came aboard. The Buccaneers winning two Super Bowls? 
 
The examples are practically limitless. 

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