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My 2021 draft review = Offensive line


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Great read thank. It's a very deep draft class for the o line so if there is better talent in other positions at #23 or #34 there is no need to reach for a tackel or guard. 

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Impressive that small school Quinn Meinerz dominating at the senior bowl despite not playing ball since 2019. He broke his right hand at the senior bowl in January still managed 33 reps of 225lbs on his pro day.
Meinerz in an interview with Geoff Schwartz on his "Smarter Than You" podcast said the Eagles have shown the most interest. Packers, Niners, Steelers, Panthers, Bengals and Patriots were in attendance at his pro day.

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We will draft 2 olinemen in this draft.  1 in the first or second round and one btwn rounds 4-7.

The oline is not nearly the issue jet fans think it is.  That scrub Darnold was a huge part of the problem and thank goodness he is now gone.

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I don’t see Spencer Brown as having much bust potential.

He is still emerging, getting bigger and stronger and his footspeed is excellent for a 6’8 type guy and he will keep working hard on his craft.

Wonder why he hasn’t been tried at LT also but should be a ling term fixture for someone at RT.

Ben Cleveland looks another guy who is underrated to me , can play guard or RT, lot’s of talent there and great athleticism for a 330 lb guy.

Every year, the run first type schools in the Midwest like Wisconsin and Iowa have guys drafted to play OL on the 3rd day who end up starters and even All- Pro types after a few years.

This year Cole Van Lanen is getting no love because Wisconsin played him at LT and he might have struggled a bit in the past against the Chase Young types but move him inside to guard and he’s plug and play like all the Wisconsin OLs.

Alaric Jackson from Iowa is another 3 rd day guy who can probably move inside and start for somebody almost immediately also.

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I've enjoyed your writeups. Thanks for all the work you put into them.

I favor a weapon or Edge prospect at 23. There are several WRs and I like Etienne best of the RBs. Ojulari, Paye or Rousseau are the edge guys I like best.

At34, I like Eichenburg a lot. Note Dame OL guys have a good track record. You make a good case for Brown or Leatherwood.

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Thank you for this excellent write-up.  I will reexamine your write-up during and after the draft to see if the Jets feel the same way you do.

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Thanks for the time. Here is my take based on the film I've watched (far from an expert):

- ATV I agree. I think he is a bit overrated and I dont see him at an OT. I think he can be a good LG, but I'm not sure I see elite and that's what you look for in a first round OG

- disagree on Jenkins. I think he has the athleticism to play zone. Can be a RG immediately and hopefully RT in the future. 

- Dickerson moves better than Humphrey on tape (could be the system for Humphrey as he grades out elite RAS). Also think he can play zone. Injuries is what holds him back.

- overall, I like addressing OC later with Meinerz, Dalman, or Menet.

- love Meinerz and Green. I think both can step in at OG immediately, but will also benefit from time on the bench to learn. Both can also play OC and have versatility. 

- I'm ok tak OJ ng Radunz at 34 if we miss Jenkins or Cosmi. Speaking of where is Cosmi??? I think he has the same upside of Jenkins. 

- Brown I dont see as a LT and we aren't moving Becton in 2 years when he is ready to play. I rate him lower than the other RT prospects because he needs to get stronger and I dont see him as versatile with ability to jump inside early. 

- I personally didn't love Eichenbergs tape. Just seemed to get moved a lot and didn't look athletic. Maybe I was watching the wrong games? Someone convince me here. 

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We’re not moving Becton to RT for Dillon Radunz or Spencer Brown. 

The rest I understand, if you intend to put more weight on a resource than others it will shape your opinion. Nothing wrong with that.

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I see the Jets doing something with either their #34 or #66 pick in terms of a trade, either trading back from 34 or up from 66 and getting into the 50's.

We don't know who will drop or be available at 23 and 34, but it just feels to me like there's a ton of value in that 40-60 range.  I almost feel like I'd rather have 3 draft picks between 35 and 55 than the Jets 2 picks at 23 and 34.

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5 hours ago, bitonti said:

Spencer brown played rt in the senior bowl they would not move Becton for brown 

I’m not sure who in this draft they move Becton for to be honest.

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13 hours ago, clayton163v said:

Well, this is going to be popular.  As I have written earlier, I am looking to draft two or more offensive lineman.  I have reviewed Ourlads take on this year's crop.  Here is what I would do if I were Joe Douglas.  Not exactly what I have been reading on the board so here we go:

I will start with Center.  Since we will play McGovern at the pivot and have just signed Feeney who has played an entire season at center, we would appear to be set there for this season.  Nevertheless, there is certainly room to add another Center since McGovern and Feeney can play guard and can be cut or not resigned after this season without undue dead money.

Many have pegged Creed Humphrey to the Jets at #23 and think him good value at #34.  Ourlads gives Humphrey a second round grade and ranks him at 61st overall.   I think that we cannot afford to take him earlier than his grade.  Further, I am not certain that he will pan out better than the other centers who are available.  Humphrey has positional versatility and can develop at guard or center.  He also has scheme versatility and could develop in either a man or zone scheme.  He is a better run blocker than pass protector and needs work on his technique.  In short, he needs to spend a year in the program but has a bright future.   While he has zone potential, he is not a great fit for the zone scheme.  Unless we get him cheap - unlikely since he is a good fit for man schemes - I would pass on him.  The other top center - Dickerson - is a man scheme only player.

Drew Dalman has a 4th round grade and is ranked at #134 overall.  Dalman is a "center only" prospect and does not project at guard.  Nor does he offer scheme versatility.  He is a "zone only" and "center only" player.  He is too light at 286 lbs for a man scheme.  Nor does he have room for more weight and is a finished product.  Highly intelligent - he went to Stanford - Ourlads says "he is a day one starter" in a zone scheme.  The son of OL Chris Dalman, he reminds me of Tom Nalen - the long-time pro bowl center for the Broncos.  Nalen played in a zone scheme at 260 lbs and the whole league was afraid of him.  Zone schemes value quickness and lateral agility over raw bulk and power.  Like Nalen, Dalman is an ideal fit for the zone scheme we are running.  Would I take him at #107?  No.  Would I take him at #146?  Yes, I would.  If we like somebody better at another position, I would pass and see if we can get him later.  This is why.

Michael Menet out of Penn State, Trey Hill out of Georgia and Jimmy Morrissey out of Pitt are all great fits for a zone scheme.  All have potential to develop into starters.  All are cheap.  Menet carries a 6th round grade, Hill and Morrissey carry 7th round grades.  It is certainly possible that none of them get drafted.  I would be happy to bring one in with one of our 6th round picks and develop him.  Menet is an athletic center who is a good fit for a zone scheme but needs to get stronger.  Hill is a farking monster who also has the wheels and quickness to play zone.  He has positional versatility and could develop at guard or center.  He needs work on his technique and is not ready or he would go earlier.  Like Dalmen, Morrissey is a "center only" and "zone scheme" only player.  Because Dalman, Menet and Morressey lack both positional and scheme versatility, they are going to go later in the draft than players like Humphrey who offers both.  Hill is still raw and will take time to develop.  I could see him going earlier than his grade because he offers positional and scheme versatility. 

I see bargains aplenty at "center only" this year for zone scheme teams like the Jets.  As a result, I am a bargain hunter.  Think of the draft as a giant water balloon.  If you squeeze here, it bulges there.  We need to be opportunistic.  Due to the number of "zone only' - "center only" players, it's a buyer's market and we should be able to get one cheap.  I want to draft one of the players I listed.  I do not care which one nor will I reach for one.  If one goes undrafted, then I would invite him to camp.  If all go undrafted, I would invite them all.  It's all good.  These are NFL players.  It is what I would do if I were Douglas.  

Let's look at the guards.  The top guy is Alijah Vera-Tucker (AVT) out of USC.  Ourlads says he "has legitimate inside out versatility".  They rank him 23d overall and give him a first round grade.  I believe he is a better fit for a man scheme than a zone scheme.  I also believe he is given a higher draft grade because he has potential to play tackle.  Not because he will make a better guard for a zone scheme team like the Jets.  It would be nice if we drafted him at #23 and he worked out at tackle.  But if he ends up at guard then he is overdrafted at #23.  There is little doubt that he is a solid player and a good candidate for any offensive line.  But that is true of the other zone scheme guards with starting grades.  I would pass on him at #23.  I cannot see bringing in an inside out player at #23 if he is not a solid starter at right tackle and a good fit for a zone scheme.  The review leaves that in doubt.  Moreover, there are several players with starting grades in this draft who are good fits for guard only in our zone scheme.  There are also tackles with better potential for a zone scheme who are also cheaper.  These players will be better fits for our scheme and will cost less to acquire. 

Before I get to the guards, lets look at Teven Jenkins out of Oklahoma State since he is regularly mocked to the Jets and has risen in the eyes of the online pundits.  Ourlads sees Jenkins as a tackle and gives him a second round grade at #57 overall.  They describe a man scheme blocker who is better at run blocking than pass blocking.  They also opine that he spends "too much time on the ground" and needs work on his technique "from head to toe".   He does not appear to be a fit for a zone scheme and also will need time to develop.  Based on the review and his projected draft value, I hope we steer clear of him at #23 and #34.   Furthermore, there are tackles I do like at #34.  So if I do not like AVT or Jenkins for guard or tackle at either #23 or #34, who do I like?  After all, I agree with the whole world that the Jets need to improve the offensive line, especially inside.

There are three players I like and would not leave the third round without one.  First is Quinn Meinerz from Outer Mongolian Technical College (OK, he is from UW - Whitewater - wherever that is).  His school cancelled the season so he has not played since 2019.  Invited to the Senior Bowl, Ourlads said "he simply dominated all week".  They give him a 3d round grade and make clear he has potential to play center or guard.  He checks all the boxes, long arms (33) big hands (10) and 35 reps.  He was a two-time team captain, won the team fitness awards etc.  They believe he "is a safe bet to start" and give him a glowing write up.  Is he ready for this season?  No.  He probably needs a year in the program.  But he has tremendous upside with the excellent movement skills needed for zone.  He is ranked in the 3d round because he is not a tackle.  So what. He will pan out better at guard than Jenkins or AVT.  So will these guys.

Next is Alex Leatherwood out of Alabama.  While he played tackle last season, Ourlads projects him inside and gives him a 3d round grade (right behind Meinerz).  They make clear "he can step into an NFL offensive line week one if needed".  Despite being an obvious fit for a man blocking scheme, Ourlads makes clear that he is "capable of mirroring and sliding with balance and control" and "he has athletic quick feet".  While I believe that Meinerz is a better fit for our zone scheme, Leatherwood can work for us and offers inside out potential at right tackle.  He is ready to start right away and is a nightmare run blocker.  I would grab him in the third.  If we take Meinerz at 66, I would take Leatherwood at 86.  I would also do it visa-versa.  Yet there is someone else to consider . . . 

Kendrick Green out of Illinois also carries a 3d round grade and is a good fit for the zone scheme.  Said Ourlads "everything is quick - start, feet and hands".  Further "his use of hands to stab, punch and control his opponent is unsurpassed for interior lineman in this draft".  Like Meinerz, he not a tackle and must play inside.  Like Meinerz, he has potential to play center.  Like Meinerz, he is as good in pass protection as he is in the run game.    The only knock on Green is he is only 6' 1.7" in height but Ourlads gives him "extra ornery points".  I believe that these three players have every bit as much potential as AVT or Jenkins and are better fits for our zone scheme.  I would take two of them in the third round if I could and grab a center only player opportunistically late in the draft and call it a day.   But what about tackle? 

Obviously Sewell, Slater and even Darrisaw have potential to help us.  Well, we are not getting them nor would I take Darrisaw at #23 or #34.   I prefer the potential of other players.  I like Dillon Radunz out of North Dakota State, Spencer Brown out of Northern Iowa and Liam Eichenberg out of Notre Dame.   Since they are tackles, they are expensive players.  Goes with the territory.

Dillon Radunz carries a 2d round grade and is ranked at #44 overall.  Ourlads calls him an "ideal fit for a heavy zone blocking scheme" like the Jets.  He is a fit at left tackle and has "elite body control and athleticism for the outside".  A word here about Ourlads.  I have been reading them for years.  When they say "elite" they mean it.  It is not hyperbole or puffing.  The only higher praise is when they use the word "rare".  They love this guy and said "he had a solid week" at the Senior Bowl.  Nevertheless, they make clear that "he will need to live in the weight room" and needs to "get more movement in the run game".   If we took him at #34, I would understand.  Tackles are expensive and he is an excellent fit.  He needs some time to develop but is a better fit than AVT at tackle and a much better fit than Jenkins.  Yes, his arrival means we move Becton to the right side.  Whoop dee do. 

Spencer Brown is a classic penthouse or the outhouse prospect.  He carries a 2d round grade and is ranked 49th overall.  Remember, we are talking NFL offensive tackles.  These are rare human beings and are costly in draft capital and hard to find.  Sometimes you have to make a leap of faith.  Risky as hell.  Spencer Brown is out of Northern Iowa (aka - nowhere).  He played 8-man high school football in small school USA, played six games as a sophomore and had his season cancelled last year.   There is little tape on this guy.  Nevertheless, Ourlads writes "there are only so many humans who are 6' 8.5" with his feet and ability to bend their knees and most of them are playing power forward in the NBA."  He has "elite flexibility" for a tall lineman and has "rare traits and pro bowl potential".  He is the "top athlete" at tackle this year.  At the Senior Bowl, he was beat early but then showed why he is considered an "elite pass protector".  But he is RAW and will need a year to develop.   If we took him at #34, I would understand.  Like Radunz, he is a great fit and is not ready this season.  Unlike Radunz, this guy is pure projection.  Like Radunz, it means we move Becton to the right side.

Liam Eichenberg carries a 2d round grade and is ranked #51st overall.  Unlike Radunz and Brown, he is ready right now.  He is an inside out prospect who can play guard if needed.  Ourlads says "his techniques are repeatable and has good brute strength in his hands and base".  They offer praise that "his lower half has obviously spent a great deal of time in the weight room".  He is more of a finished product than Radunz or Brown but does not have their elite upside.  He would start for us on day one at right tackle or either guard spot.  Like Radunz and Brown, if we took him at #34, I would understand.  He is a good fit and can help us right now.  

Would I draft one of these tackles at #34?  I dunno.   I know I would not draft them at #23.  Some hard to find talent is going to be the board at #34 and I could not answer until I see who is there.  I know I would take the running backs Harris or Etienne first.  I would also take Rondale Moore, Elijah Moore or Terrance Marshall at wideout first.  But I would understand the argument to take one of these tackles instead.  But to be honest, I think our offensive line needs help inside more than we need a tackle and we can find that help in the third round and later.  But these are the lineman who can help us complete our zone scheme.  We can plug more expensive players into the line but they are not as good fits as the players I have discussed. 

Remember your Parcells: "You cannot compromise your prototypes".  These tackles are better fits than the more expensive players.  So are the guards.  The best value this year is at Center. 

You had me at Offensive Linemen.  . . . .   I want 3. 

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I still have a probably irrational bias to George Young's "Planet People" over scheme-fitters, but the opening post is the kind of good stuff that drew me to JN. Will be fascinating to see what JD does and whether he can explain it convincingly.

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14 hours ago, Greenseed4 said:

...in conclusion, there are many OL players that we should try to draft if adequate value is presented, and they are given proper resources (time and coaching) to reach their potential. 

Alternatively, there are some OL players we should not draft because our scheme doesn’t fit their skill set. 

A fine synopsis.  That's about the size of it.  I look forward to your writeup.

13 hours ago, Ecuadorian Jet said:

Bargain hunting to acquire the protection of the next franchise QB.......hmmm, pass.

A lower draft pick is not necessarily a worse prospect.  Remember, these guys are not ready and have to develop.  Some need coaching and others more time in the weight room.  Some are just young.  Many here wanted to spend mondo dollars on Joe Thuney.  Thuney was a third round guard.  The best guard in last year's draft was Solomon Kindley and he went in the fourth.  Michael Onwenu played 16 games at right tackle for the Patriots and went in the 6th.  It is all about whether or not you are a scheme fit and whether or not you have positional versatility.  The more one-dimensional the player, the lower the cost to acquire them.  And visa-versa.

It is about supply and demand.  Some of these guys are going to work out and work out well.  Some of these guys will not.  Missing on an early pick sets the team back.  Missing on a late pick does not.  You cannot draft everybody in the first round.

6 hours ago, bitonti said:

Spencer brown played rt in the senior bowl they would not move Becton for brown 

Not this season, no.  But Brown is considered an "elite pass protector".  That says left side.  Perhaps you're right.  You can certainly make the argument that we should not spend #34 on him since we have Becton.  I say as much in the above post and am focused on the guards and centers. 

6 hours ago, adobolo2 said:

Great read thank. It's a very deep draft class for the o line so if there is better talent in other positions at #23 or #34 there is no need to reach for a tackel or guard. 

My point exactly.  We need to focus less on player A or player B.  The key is the scheme fits, available spots on the team long-term and relative value in terms of draft capital. 

5 hours ago, Gangrene said:

Impressive that small school Quinn Meinerz dominating at the senior bowl despite not playing ball since 2019. He broke his right hand at the senior bowl in January still managed 33 reps of 225lbs on his pro day.
Meinerz in an interview with Geoff Schwartz on his "Smarter Than You" podcast said the Eagles have shown the most interest. Packers, Niners, Steelers, Panthers, Bengals and Patriots were in attendance at his pro day.

It is impressive.  Same with Spencer Brown.  I think Meinerz projects best to our scheme outside of Sewell and Slater. 

5 hours ago, Leftylarry said:

I don’t see Spencer Brown as having much bust potential.

He is still emerging, getting bigger and stronger and his footspeed is excellent for a 6’8 type guy and he will keep working hard on his craft.

Wonder why he hasn’t been tried at LT also but should be a ling term fixture for someone at RT.

Ben Cleveland looks another guy who is underrated to me , can play guard or RT, lot’s of talent there and great athleticism for a 330 lb guy.

Every year, the run first type schools in the Midwest like Wisconsin and Iowa have guys drafted to play OL on the 3rd day who end up starters and even All- Pro types after a few years.

This year Cole Van Lanen is getting no love because Wisconsin played him at LT and he might have struggled a bit in the past against the Chase Young types but move him inside to guard and he’s plug and play like all the Wisconsin OLs.

Alaric Jackson from Iowa is another 3 rd day guy who can probably move inside and start for somebody almost immediately also.

Tall tackles like Brown frequently are unable to contain the inside bull rush and never develop.  He is a boom or bust prospect.  He is also making a huge jump from division III and has not had the full college career.  He is a lot of projection. 

Ourlads project Cleveland at guard and give him a 4th round grade.  They see him as a good fit for a man scheme.  They said "he can factor right away in an offense that goes for downhill push more than lateral movement" and complain that "his movement in space is poor".  He is a good prospect but he is not a fit for our zone scheme. 

Van Lanen gets a 6th round grade and is knocked as having "borderline pro physical skills".  They do not project him inside.

Jackson gets a 4th round grade.  He is knocked as having limited upside.  His power game is more suited for a man scheme.

5 hours ago, Jethead said:

I've enjoyed your writeups. Thanks for all the work you put into them.

I favor a weapon or Edge prospect at 23. There are several WRs and I like Etienne best of the RBs. Ojulari, Paye or Rousseau are the edge guys I like best.

At34, I like Eichenburg a lot. Note Dame OL guys have a good track record. You make a good case for Brown or Leatherwood.

Thanks. 

While I am opportunistic at #23, I too think that edge is likely going to be the best value.  I like Etienne, but top backs are always available in the first round.  We are not ready to compete for the playoffs and are rebuilding.  I have to take a chess piece.  I agree with you on Paye and Rousseau.  I also like Jaelan Phillips and Jayson Oweh at edge at 23.  I honestly believe that one of them will be there and represents the best value draft over draft.  I see Ojulari as a better fit as a 3-4 outside rush linebacker and bit overmatched as a defensive end in a three point stance.  Good looking player, but not a fit.  Nor is Collins.  

I think Eichenberg is a good fit and can offer help right away.  I just see greater upside for Brown and Radunz.  Leatherwood also offers help right away but I see greater upside with Meinerz and Green.   Lots of good possibilities. 

 

3 hours ago, IntoTheGreen said:

 

- ATV I agree. I think he is a bit overrated and I dont see him at an OT. I think he can be a good LG, but I'm not sure I see elite and that's what you look for in a first round OG

What worries me about AVT is that he is a better fit for man schemes than zone.  At 23 he simply has to start at tackle AND be a good fit for the zone scheme.  He is too costly.  We can get what he offers for less.

- disagree on Jenkins. I think he has the athleticism to play zone. Can be a RG immediately and hopefully RT in the future. 

I would not overdraft Jenkins at #23 and at #34 I prefer Radunz, Brown and Eichenberg.  It is not that I think that Jenkins is a poor player, but zone guys must have great feet and that was not his review.  Ourlads said he is a strikeout or homerun type blocker.  When you run the zone scheme you cannot be knocked off your feet as you tend to roll up on the legs of your teammates.   Jenkins "spends too much time on the ground".  Just a bad fit.  He is a good prospect at tackle for a man scheme.   

- Dickerson moves better than Humphrey on tape (could be the system for Humphrey as he grades out elite RAS). Also think he can play zone. Injuries is what holds him back.

As for Dickerson, Ourlads comes right out and says he belongs "in a power blocking scheme".  He lacks "top end foot speed and twitch speed in space".  They also worry about his multiple knee injuries.  All in all, I would not spend #23 or #34 on him even if I ran the man scheme for which he is suited. 

- overall, I like addressing OC later with Meinerz, Dalman, or Menet.

Me too.  I also love Morressey who might not even get drafted.  The good teams find free stuff. 

- love Meinerz and Green. I think both can step in at OG immediately, but will also benefit from time on the bench to learn. Both can also play OC and have versatility. 

Agreed.  Ourlads thinks they have some technique issues to clean up but consider both starters.  Leatherwood was a surprise.  I had pegged him as a man blocker but he has the feet to play zone.  I suspect he may get drafted before we pick in the third because he can play tackle and is ready right now.  I would be very happy with any of them.

- I'm ok tak OJ ng Radunz at 34 if we miss Jenkins or Cosmi. Speaking of where is Cosmi??? I think he has the same upside of Jenkins. 

Ourlads sees Cosmi as a project.  While he is a good fit for a zone scheme, They said "he has a lot to fix before being considered a starter at the next level".

- Brown I dont see as a LT and we aren't moving Becton in 2 years when he is ready to play. I rate him lower than the other RT prospects because he needs to get stronger and I dont see him as versatile with ability to jump inside early. 

Ourlads call Brown an "elite pass protector" and those guys play on the left side.  You never know with tackles.  I see Brown as a guy who will develop quickly or not at all.  You are right, he is not going to be moving inside.  Very risky pick.  It is why I prefer to focus on guard and center this season and choose other positions at #23 and #34.  But I do understand why the Jets might take him.

- I personally didn't love Eichenbergs tape. Just seemed to get moved a lot and didn't look athletic. Maybe I was watching the wrong games? Someone convince me here. 

You're not wrong.  Eichenberg does not have the upside of Radunz or Brown.  But he is good enough to play the zone scheme and is ready right now.  There is something to be said for immediate help.  He also can move inside right away.  I see him as a player with a very high floor.

3 hours ago, kdels62 said:

We’re not moving Becton to RT for Dillon Radunz or Spencer Brown. 

The rest I understand, if you intend to put more weight on a resource than others it will shape your opinion. Nothing wrong with that.

That seems to be the general consensus.  I see Brown and and Radunz as players who project at left tackle.  If they want Becton's job, they would have to take it by force.  I did not mean to suggest that he be moved aside without a fight.

55 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I see the Jets doing something with either their #34 or #66 pick in terms of a trade, either trading back from 34 or up from 66 and getting into the 50's.

We don't know who will drop or be available at 23 and 34, but it just feels to me like there's a ton of value in that 40-60 range.  I almost feel like I'd rather have 3 draft picks between 35 and 55 than the Jets 2 picks at 23 and 34.

To me it depends on what position you seek to acquire.  If you want one of the second banana receivers, they are not going to be there in the third.  I think it would be a coup if Etienne or Harris were at #34.  As for these guards I mentioned, I have to take one in the third.  I can wait on taking another since it has been my experience that "guard only" prospects who are not ready tend to fall beyond their draft grade even though they end up starting.  But we simply must address the offensive line.  Even if it means taking one of the guards a little early. 

Given Douglas's track record, I could see him trade down.  Especially if his targeted tier appears well stocked when our pick comes up. 

 

1 hour ago, rangerous said:

how can any team not want a guy named leatherwood on the oline?

Especially when your owner is "Woody Johnson".  They can hang out together.

 

44 minutes ago, derp said:

I’m not sure who in this draft they move Becton for to be honest.

Sewell.  I just was trying to make clear that Radunz and Brown project to the left side in a zone scheme.  I agree that they would have to take his job by force. 

 

42 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

You had me at Offensive Linemen.  . . . .   I want 3. 

Fixed.  Lol.

 

19 minutes ago, Morrissey said:

Quinn Meinerz would be my pick in 2nd round. Could possibly trade down to get him.

I like him too but #34 is just too early.  I could see us move back but I like Leatherwood and Green just as much.  We cannot fall in love and overdraft players.  I like Eichenberg too.   If Eichenberg dropped to the 3d, I would take him and run like a thief in the night.  Brown and Radunz will be gone by the third imo.

 

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I wont bother quoting that whole thing, but thanks for your detailed response. Very thoughtful. We disagree on some things, but that's what will make watching the draft interesting. Let's see what JD ends up doing and debate over the lineman he passed vs the ones he took. I wont comment back on everything, but here are a few more thoughts...

As per Brown, you are right with the bull rush which is why I said he needs to get stronger. I def. Wouldn't take him before round 3. 

Radunz so far to me doesn't seem like he will be a top end starter on the left side. I think he can be adequate which is why I think right side might be better. 

When I watch Cosmi I dont see project. Seems pretty comparable to Jenkins. But like I said I'm far from an expert. I see what I see. 

Again, I'm no master of technique as it relates to Green, but honestly he seems to outrun his assignments and either misses them or is in bad position. In the NFL I think that will be less of a problem. 

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18 hours ago, clayton163v said:

Well, this is going to be popular.  As I have written earlier, I am looking to draft two or more offensive linemen.  I have reviewed Ourlads take on this year's crop.  Here is what I would do if I were Joe Douglas.  Not exactly what I have been reading on the board so here we go:

I will start with Center.  Since we will play McGovern at the pivot and have just signed Feeney who has played an entire season at center, we would appear to be set there for this season.  Nevertheless, there is certainly room to add another Center since McGovern and Feeney can play guard and can be cut or not resigned after this season without undue dead money.

Many have pegged Creed Humphrey to the Jets at #23 and think him good value at #34.  Ourlads gives Humphrey a second round grade and ranks him at 61st overall.   I think that we cannot afford to take him earlier than his grade.  Further, I am not certain that he will pan out better than the other centers who are available.  Humphrey has positional versatility and can develop at guard or center.  He also has scheme versatility and could develop in either a man or zone scheme.  He is a better run blocker than pass protector and needs work on his technique.  In short, he needs to spend a year in the program but has a bright future.   While he has zone potential, he is not a great fit for the zone scheme.  Unless we get him cheap - unlikely since he is a good fit for man schemes - I would pass on him.  The other top center - Dickerson - is a man scheme only player.

Drew Dalman has a 4th round grade and is ranked at #134 overall.  Dalman is a "center only" prospect and does not project at guard.  Nor does he offer scheme versatility.  He is a "zone only" and "center only" player.  He is too light at 286 lbs for a man scheme.  Nor does he have room for more weight and is a finished product.  Highly intelligent - he went to Stanford - Ourlads says "he is a day one starter" in a zone scheme.  The son of OL Chris Dalman, he reminds me of Tom Nalen - the long-time pro bowl center for the Broncos.  Nalen played in a zone scheme at 260 lbs and the whole league was afraid of him.  Zone schemes value quickness and lateral agility over raw bulk and power.  Like Nalen, Dalman is an ideal fit for the zone scheme we are running.  Would I take him at #107?  No.  Would I take him at #146?  Yes, I would.  If we like somebody better at another position, I would pass and see if we can get him later.  This is why.

Michael Menet out of Penn State, Trey Hill out of Georgia and Jimmy Morrissey out of Pitt are all great fits for a zone scheme.  All have potential to develop into starters.  All are cheap.  Menet carries a 6th round grade, Hill and Morrissey carry 7th round grades.  It is certainly possible that none of them get drafted.  I would be happy to bring one in with one of our 6th round picks and develop him.  Menet is an athletic center who is a good fit for a zone scheme but needs to get stronger.  Hill is a farking monster who also has the wheels and quickness to play zone.  He has positional versatility and could develop at guard or center.  He needs work on his technique and is not ready or he would go earlier.  Like Dalmen, Morrissey is a "center only" and "zone scheme" only player.  Because Dalman, Menet and Morressey lack both positional and scheme versatility, they are going to go later in the draft than players like Humphrey who offers both.  Hill is still raw and will take time to develop.  I could see him going earlier than his grade because he offers positional and scheme versatility. 

I see bargains aplenty at "center only" this year for zone scheme teams like the Jets.  As a result, I am a bargain hunter.  Think of the draft as a giant water balloon.  If you squeeze here, it bulges there.  We need to be opportunistic.  Due to the number of "zone only' - "center only" players, it's a buyer's market and we should be able to get one cheap.  I want to draft one of the players I listed.  I do not care which one nor will I reach for one.  If one goes undrafted, then I would invite him to camp.  If all go undrafted, I would invite them all.  It's all good.  These are NFL players.  It is what I would do if I were Douglas.  

Let's look at the guards.  The top guy is Alijah Vera-Tucker (AVT) out of USC.  Ourlads says he "has legitimate inside out versatility".  They rank him 23d overall and give him a first round grade.  I believe he is a better fit for a man scheme than a zone scheme.  I also believe he is given a higher draft grade because he has potential to play tackle.  Not because he will make a better guard for a zone scheme team like the Jets.  It would be nice if we drafted him at #23 and he worked out at tackle.  But if he ends up at guard then he is overdrafted at #23.  There is little doubt that he is a solid player and a good candidate for any offensive line.  But that is true of the other zone scheme guards with starting grades.  I would pass on him at #23.  I cannot see bringing in an inside out player at #23 if he is not a solid starter at right tackle and a good fit for a zone scheme.  The review leaves that in doubt.  Moreover, there are several players with starting grades in this draft who are good fits for guard only in our zone scheme.  There are also tackles with better potential for a zone scheme who are also cheaper.  These players will be better fits for our scheme and will cost less to acquire. 

Before I get to the guards, lets look at Teven Jenkins out of Oklahoma State since he is regularly mocked to the Jets and has risen in the eyes of the online pundits.  Ourlads sees Jenkins as a tackle and gives him a second round grade at #57 overall.  They describe a man scheme blocker who is better at run blocking than pass blocking.  They also opine that he spends "too much time on the ground" and needs work on his technique "from head to toe".   He does not appear to be a fit for a zone scheme and also will need time to develop.  Based on the review and his projected draft value, I hope we steer clear of him at #23 and #34.   Furthermore, there are tackles I do like at #34.  So if I do not like AVT or Jenkins for guard or tackle at either #23 or #34, who do I like?  After all, I agree with the whole world that the Jets need to improve the offensive line, especially inside.

There are three players I like and would not leave the third round without one.  First is Quinn Meinerz from Outer Mongolian Technical College (OK, he is from UW - Whitewater - wherever that is).  His school cancelled the season so he has not played since 2019.  Invited to the Senior Bowl, Ourlads said "he simply dominated all week".  They give him a 3d round grade and make clear he has potential to play center or guard.  He checks all the boxes, long arms (33) big hands (10) and 35 reps.  He was a two-time team captain, won the team fitness awards etc.  They believe he "is a safe bet to start" and give him a glowing write up.  Is he ready for this season?  No.  He probably needs a year in the program.  But he has tremendous upside with the excellent movement skills needed for zone.  He is ranked in the 3d round because he is not a tackle.  So what. He will pan out better at guard than Jenkins or AVT.  So will these guys.

Next is Alex Leatherwood out of Alabama.  While he played tackle last season, Ourlads projects him inside and gives him a 3d round grade (right behind Meinerz).  They make clear "he can step into an NFL offensive line week one if needed".  Despite being an obvious fit for a man blocking scheme, Ourlads makes clear that he is "capable of mirroring and sliding with balance and control" and "he has athletic quick feet".  While I believe that Meinerz is a better fit for our zone scheme, Leatherwood can work for us and offers inside out potential at right tackle.  He is ready to start right away and is a nightmare run blocker.  I would grab him in the third.  If we take Meinerz at 66, I would take Leatherwood at 86.  I would also do it visa-versa.  Yet there is someone else to consider . . . 

Kendrick Green out of Illinois also carries a 3d round grade and is a good fit for the zone scheme.  Said Ourlads "everything is quick - start, feet and hands".  Further "his use of hands to stab, punch and control his opponent is unsurpassed for interior lineman in this draft".  Like Meinerz, he not a tackle and must play inside.  Like Meinerz, he has potential to play center.  Like Meinerz, he is as good in pass protection as he is in the run game.    The only knock on Green is he is only 6' 1.7" in height but Ourlads gives him "extra ornery points".  I believe that these three players have every bit as much potential as AVT or Jenkins and are better fits for our zone scheme.  I would take two of them in the third round if I could and grab a center only player opportunistically late in the draft and call it a day.   But what about tackle? 

Obviously Sewell, Slater and even Darrisaw have potential to help us.  Well, we are not getting them nor would I take Darrisaw at #23 or #34.   I prefer the potential of other players.  I like Dillon Radunz out of North Dakota State, Spencer Brown out of Northern Iowa and Liam Eichenberg out of Notre Dame.   Since they are tackles, they are expensive players.  Goes with the territory.

Dillon Radunz carries a 2d round grade and is ranked at #44 overall.  Ourlads calls him an "ideal fit for a heavy zone blocking scheme" like the Jets.  He is a fit at left tackle and has "elite body control and athleticism for the outside".  A word here about Ourlads.  I have been reading them for years.  When they say "elite" they mean it.  It is not hyperbole or puffing.  The only higher praise is when they use the word "rare".  They love this guy and said "he had a solid week" at the Senior Bowl.  Nevertheless, they make clear that "he will need to live in the weight room" and needs to "get more movement in the run game".   If we took him at #34, I would understand.  Tackles are expensive and he is an excellent fit.  He needs some time to develop but is a better fit than AVT at tackle and a much better fit than Jenkins.  Yes, his arrival means we move Becton to the right side.  Whoop dee do. 

Spencer Brown is a classic penthouse or the outhouse prospect.  He carries a 2d round grade and is ranked 49th overall.  Remember, we are talking NFL offensive tackles.  These are rare human beings and are costly in draft capital and hard to find.  Sometimes you have to make a leap of faith.  Risky as hell.  Spencer Brown is out of Northern Iowa (aka - nowhere).  He played 8-man high school football in small school USA, played six games as a sophomore and had his season cancelled last year.   There is little tape on this guy.  Nevertheless, Ourlads writes "there are only so many humans who are 6' 8.5" with his feet and ability to bend their knees and most of them are playing power forward in the NBA."  He has "elite flexibility" for a tall lineman and has "rare traits and pro bowl potential".  He is the "top athlete" at tackle this year.  At the Senior Bowl, he was beat early but then showed why he is considered an "elite pass protector".  But he is RAW and will need a year to develop.   If we took him at #34, I would understand.  Like Radunz, he is a great fit and is not ready this season.  Unlike Radunz, this guy is pure projection.  Like Radunz, it means we move Becton to the right side.

Liam Eichenberg carries a 2d round grade and is ranked #51st overall.  Unlike Radunz and Brown, he is ready right now.  He is an inside out prospect who can play guard if needed.  Ourlads says "his techniques are repeatable and has good brute strength in his hands and base".  They offer praise that "his lower half has obviously spent a great deal of time in the weight room".  He is more of a finished product than Radunz or Brown but does not have their elite upside.  He would start for us on day one at right tackle or either guard spot.  Like Radunz and Brown, if we took him at #34, I would understand.  He is a good fit and can help us right now.  

Would I draft one of these tackles at #34?  I dunno.   I know I would not draft them at #23.  Some hard to find talent is going to be the board at #34 and I could not answer until I see who is there.  I know I would take the running backs Harris or Etienne first.  I would also take Rondale Moore, Elijah Moore or Terrance Marshall at wideout first.  But I would understand the argument to take one of these tackles instead.  But to be honest, I think our offensive line needs help inside more than we need a tackle and we can find that help in the third round and later.  But these are the lineman who can help us complete our zone scheme.  We can plug more expensive players into the line but they are not as good fits as the players I have discussed. 

Remember your Parcells: "You cannot compromise your prototypes".  These tackles are better fits than the more expensive players.  So are the guards.  The best value this year is at Center. 

A great read and I appreciate you posting this although I may have some disagreements.  I like how you tried match the player profile to the "scheme fit" of the Jets.  I also like how you prioritized the center position.  At the current projected value/my non-expert opinion I'd prefer we steer clear of AVT, Jenkins and Darrisaw.  I'd prefer an Etienne or Harris at RB plus a Leatherwood, Humphrey, or Eichenberg.  I'll admit I did not have Radunz on my radar but sounds like he's a similar caliber of player.  Either way, if we could get one of the RB and one of the OL at#23 and #34 I'd be happy.  JD needs to focus the higher draft picks so our offense doesn't rely solely on the shoulders of a rookie QB.   I'd argue that waiting till the 3rd to draft an IOL may not provide a plug and play that we desperately need.  In the 3rd and 4th we can add value/depth on either the offense or defensive side of the ball.  

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12 hours ago, Jetscode1 said:

A great read and I appreciate you posting this although I may have some disagreements.  I like how you tried match the player profile to the "scheme fit" of the Jets.  I also like how you prioritized the center position.  At the current projected value/my non-expert opinion I'd prefer we steer clear of AVT, Jenkins and Darrisaw.  I'd prefer an Etienne or Harris at RB plus a Leatherwood, Humphrey, or Eichenberg.  I'll admit I did not have Radunz on my radar but sounds like he's a similar caliber of player.  Either way, if we could get one of the RB and one of the OL at#23 and #34 I'd be happy.  JD needs to focus the higher draft picks so our offense doesn't rely solely on the shoulders of a rookie QB.   I'd argue that waiting till the 3rd to draft an IOL may not provide a plug and play that we desperately need.  In the 3rd and 4th we can add value/depth on either the offense or defensive side of the ball.  

No knock on Etienne and Harris but I think Javonte Williams fits the Jets scheme better and can be had with a later pick.

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19 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

No knock on Etienne and Harris but I think Javonte Williams fits the Jets scheme better and can be had with a later pick.

I've read a couple of profiles.  He sounds really good but the sites I read had him coming off the board in the second round.  I'm not an expert so if the FO wants him instead I'd be happy.  I just hope JD drafts a back and some interior line help with #23 and #34 to promote the running game or we risk making this all about the QB.  

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18 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

I see the Jets doing something with either their #34 or #66 pick in terms of a trade, either trading back from 34 or up from 66 and getting into the 50's.

We don't know who will drop or be available at 23 and 34, but it just feels to me like there's a ton of value in that 40-60 range.  I almost feel like I'd rather have 3 draft picks between 35 and 55 than the Jets 2 picks at 23 and 34.

In any mock draft I do AVT looks like the BPA. Humphrey, Jenkins and the CBs all go before 23. 

I am trading down  

 

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3 hours ago, Jetscode1 said:

I've read a couple of profiles.  He sounds really good but the sites I read had him coming off the board in the second round.  I'm not an expert so if the FO wants him instead I'd be happy.  I just hope JD drafts a back and some interior line help with #23 and #34 to promote the running game or we risk making this all about the QB.  

Ironically, I think promoting the Running game IS about the QB.

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3 hours ago, varjet said:

In any mock draft I do AVT looks like the BPA. Humphrey, Jenkins and the CBs all go before 23. 

I am trading down  

 

Interesting.

I would take either AVT or Jenkins at #23.  Humphrey is the guy I'm a bit dicey on.  Would rather him at #34.

A trade down from #23 would also be fine with me because I see great value in everything from OL to WR and CB in the 40's and 50's.

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22 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

I see the Jets doing something with either their #34 or #66 pick in terms of a trade, either trading back from 34 or up from 66 and getting into the 50's.

We don't know who will drop or be available at 23 and 34, but it just feels to me like there's a ton of value in that 40-60 range.  I almost feel like I'd rather have 3 draft picks between 35 and 55 than the Jets 2 picks at 23 and 34.

my sense has been unless a Terrance marshall (possibly toney), Caleb Farley, or a really good Edge falls to 34, Douglas will look to trade down once possibly twice and target guys like Rondale Moore in the middle to back end of round 2 while hopefulyl adding a 3rd or 4th rounder to the mix. Similar to how he played the draft for Mims.  There is not much difference between guys youll get middle to back end of the round and top of the round at positions of need for the Jets outside of the guys I think they'd sit there and take because they have them rated highly. 

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23 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

If Douglas doesn't pick at least two O linemen with his first 5 picks, I will lose my faith in him
 

I too think we need to draft offensive lineman.  I just do not think we should take them with our first three picks.  I think we can add an excellent edge prospect at #23.  At #34 I think we will have an opportunity to add one of the wide receivers who drops or one of the top running backs.  None of them will last long into the second round. 

Rest assured we will add OL.  It is just a question of where.

21 hours ago, Jetscode1 said:

A great read and I appreciate you posting this although I may have some disagreements.  I like how you tried match the player profile to the "scheme fit" of the Jets.  I also like how you prioritized the center position.  At the current projected value/my non-expert opinion I'd prefer we steer clear of AVT, Jenkins and Darrisaw.  I'd prefer an Etienne or Harris at RB plus a Leatherwood, Humphrey, or Eichenberg.  I'll admit I did not have Radunz on my radar but sounds like he's a similar caliber of player.  Either way, if we could get one of the RB and one of the OL at#23 and #34 I'd be happy.  JD needs to focus the higher draft picks so our offense doesn't rely solely on the shoulders of a rookie QB.   I'd argue that waiting till the 3rd to draft an IOL may not provide a plug and play that we desperately need.  In the 3rd and 4th we can add value/depth on either the offense or defensive side of the ball.  

At #34 I could see us add one of the tackles.  Eichenberg is unlikely to last until the third since he is a good fit for both zone and man teams at right tackle.  I also like the fact that he is a right now player who can spend a year at guard and help you there.  Radunz and Brown have better upside, but they cannot help us now.  Unlike many on the board, I think one of the top backs at #34 would be a coup.

While I am with  you on picking offense, it is hard to ignore edge rushers who are solid three-down defensive ends.  That does not happen every year, particularly at #23.

9 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

No knock on Etienne and Harris but I think Javonte Williams fits the Jets scheme better and can be had with a later pick.

I will be doing a write up on the backs, wide receivers and tight ends later today. 

8 hours ago, Jetscode1 said:

I've read a couple of profiles.  He sounds really good but the sites I read had him coming off the board in the second round.  I'm not an expert so if the FO wants him instead I'd be happy.  I just hope JD drafts a back and some interior line help with #23 and #34 to promote the running game or we risk making this all about the QB.  

To me it is all about value.  I cannot take a back at #23 because we are not contenders.  I suspect Etienne's all around game will attract a suitor before we pick at #34.  The Chiefs would have grabbed him last year.  Harris is more of a workhorse back.  He also fits well in a committee since he is not a third-down guy. 

 

8 hours ago, varjet said:

In any mock draft I do AVT looks like the BPA. Humphrey, Jenkins and the CBs all go before 23. 

I am trading down  

 

I like AVT and think he will have a long career.  But he belongs in a man scheme where he can fire off the ball.  I think that Meinerz and Green are better fits for our zone scheme.  Meinerz reminds me of Ali Marpet from the Bucs.  He too shot up draft boards coming from a small school.  Leatherwood has real good feet and is a very now kind of player.  Like Eichenberg, he can also play guard for a year.  

I am with you on trading down.  One thing that is nice about trading down 10 sport here and 10 spots there, it allows you to keep your tiers.  When you go for it with a pick, it will be a whole round before you find out if the other guys you wanted are gone or not.  Trading back allows you to grab your fallback guy if things do not go your way while gaining extra picks in the process. 

It is why I look at this as either/or instead of getting locked into a specific player. 

 

  

5 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Ironically, I think promoting the Running game IS about the QB.

Yes.  There are also several ways to do it.  Whether we bolster it by adding a new running back, upgrades to the offensive line or a young wide receiver who can run gadget plays like Rondale Moore (and Deebo Samuel for the 49ers last season) - it is all good.

4 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Interesting.

I would take either AVT or Jenkins at #23.  Humphrey is the guy I'm a bit dicey on.  Would rather him at #34.

A trade down from #23 would also be fine with me because I see great value in everything from OL to WR and CB in the 40's and 50's.

Fair enough.  I do not see it that way on those two lineman but I like trading back. 

4 hours ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

my sense has been unless a Terrance marshall (possibly toney), Caleb Farley, or a really good Edge falls to 34, Douglas will look to trade down once possibly twice and target guys like Rondale Moore in the middle to back end of round 2 while hopefulyl adding a 3rd or 4th rounder to the mix. Similar to how he played the draft for Mims.  There is not much difference between guys youll get middle to back end of the round and top of the round at positions of need for the Jets outside of the guys I think they'd sit there and take because they have them rated highly. 

I love Marshall and Moore.  Both add a pure speed dimension to the Jets wide receivers that is not there at the moment. 

 

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