The Jets Aren't Going to be Horrible This Year

[SAR I]

29 minutes ago, Morrissey said:

We def have at least 4-5: QW, MB, MM, CD, CL

You realize that there are 22 starters on an NFL team, right?  Probably more like 27 if you factor in special teams.

So having 4 is, umm, yeah, it's not good.

SAR I

[SAR I]

21 minutes ago, Ken Schroy said:

Becton, Moseley, Crowder or even Mims. Stay asleep.

Yes!  4!

And Mosley and Crowder were here before Douglas. 

So let's see..... 2 starters per year, 27 starters needed, that's like 13 years.  Someone, check my math, we're a little tired up here and the Earth is getting pretty big in the window.

SAR I

[Stark]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I agree completely, and have made a similar inquiry re: Davis as a legit #1.

But I would wager it's a given that Davis playing the #1 WR Position is an upgrade over Perriman playing the #1 WR position.

Two sorta separate arguments. 

Is Davis an elite, legit NFL #1?  Probably not, but we'll see, he's getting a great opportunity here.

Is he likely to be alot better and more durable and more productive than Perriman?  I'd say yes, absolutely. 

I agree there. I think he is more consistent than Perriman and therefore an upgrade. 

 

[joewilly12]

[JetPotato]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

-Better Head Coach (Gase was the worst I've ever seen.)

-Better Offensive Coordinator (Did we even have an O-Co under Gase, really?)

-Better Offensive System (Shanny-style WCO > Gase Insanity)

-Better QB (We have to presume Wilson won't be dead last in the NFL, otherwise why would we dump Sam and draft Wilson, amirite?)

-Better at RB (No more feeding old Gore.)

-Better #1 WR (Davis over Perriman.)

-Better #2 WR (Mims healthy vs. missed most of season.)

-Not having a depth guy like Berrios be #2 in Catches at WR, lol.

-Better O-line (almost by default, Becton 2nd Year, high Draft Pick presumably)

-Better Edge (Carl Lawson)

-Better LB (Mosely back)

-Better CB (presuming we sign Sherman post-draft and/or draft a CB)

-Better play from JD 2020 Draft Class (Hall at CB fully healthy, Zuninga at Edge second year, Perine at RB, Davis at Safety 2nd year, etc).

-Presumed upgrades at a number of positions (#23 pick, #34 pick at minimum should be upgrades).

Will we win a Super Bowl in 2021?  We gonna be #1 in Offense, #1 in Defense?  Probably not, lol. ?  And no one is saying we will or should.

Should we be able to expect a competitive team that is in every game and competes and should be around .500 or better?

Hell yes we should! ?

 

Look who is in a good mood! 4/20 was yesterday though, bud.

[Morrissey]

51 minutes ago, SAR I said:

You realize that there are 22 starters on an NFL team, right?  Probably more like 27 if you factor in special teams.

So having 4 is, umm, yeah, it's not good.

SAR I

I agree, but I responded to your post saying...

"Someone wake me up when we have 3 players on our roster that another NFL team would make a starter."

They have more than 3. Fact is fact.

 

 

[Bay Ridge Jet]

They’re better because I don’t have to see a Gase designed bubble screen

[kevinc855]

Thank you.

Alwsys refreshing to see the non “get off my lawn” posts from the sojf 

[slimjasi]

I think this is a reasonable optimistic take. I'd be thrilled with 0.500. 

I'm sure folks on here could come up with an equally reasonable pessimistic take, but f*ck those guys. 

[Fantasy Island]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

-Better Head Coach (Gase was the worst I've ever seen.)

-Better Offensive Coordinator (Did we even have an O-Co under Gase, really?)

-Better Offensive System (Shanny-style WCO > Gase Insanity)

-Better QB (We have to presume Wilson won't be dead last in the NFL, otherwise why would we dump Sam and draft Wilson, amirite?)

-Better at RB (No more feeding old Gore.)

-Better #1 WR (Davis over Perriman.)

-Better #2 WR (Mims healthy vs. missed most of season.)

-Not having a depth guy like Berrios be #2 in Catches at WR, lol.

-Better O-line (almost by default, Becton 2nd Year, high Draft Pick presumably)

-Better Edge (Carl Lawson)

-Better LB (Mosely back)

-Better CB (presuming we sign Sherman post-draft and/or draft a CB)

-Better play from JD 2020 Draft Class (Hall at CB fully healthy, Zuninga at Edge second year, Perine at RB, Davis at Safety 2nd year, etc).

-Presumed upgrades at a number of positions (#23 pick, #34 pick at minimum should be upgrades).

Will we win a Super Bowl in 2021?  We gonna be #1 in Offense, #1 in Defense?  Probably not, lol. ?  And no one is saying we will or should.

Should we be able to expect a competitive team that is in every game and competes and should be around .500 or better?

Hell yes we should! ?

 

Moseley will be back.........., back at the crib sitting on his fat a$$.

[Biggs]

3 hours ago, SAR I said:

Someone wake me up when we have 3 players on our roster that another NFL team would make a starter.

SAR I

Zach Wilson starts on the Panthers this year.  

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, JetPotato said:

Look who is in a good mood! 4/20 was yesterday though, bud.

Gonna be every day here in VA soon enough!

[JetPotato]

51 minutes ago, Morrissey said:

I agree, but I responded to your post saying...

"Someone wake me up when we have 3 players on our roster that another NFL team would make a starter."

They have more than 3. Fact is fact.

 

 

You read that and your next instinct was to try to wake him up?

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

You realize that there are 22 starters on an NFL team, right?  Probably more like 27 if you factor in special teams.

So having 4 is, umm, yeah, it's not good.

SAR I

The average 8-8 team... How many "starters" do they have?  This metric you've created... It could use some context.

Also, we were 2-14 with the league's worst QB, and have traded away "starters" to improve draft capital this year and next year.

The problem, as I see it, is that you believed in this team, Gase, and Darnold, too much last year, and your expectations were completely out of whack.  If you correctly viewed the 6-2 finish to the prior year as a result of an exceptionally easy schedule featuring the 5/6 worst defenses in the NFL as opponents, and understood just how bad Sam Darnold was, a bad 2020 should have been no surprise.

Douglas has had two free agency periods (wherein he's made it clear he's looking for mid-level talent with short-term fair contracts), and one draft (where he got two of the teams "starters," with more to possibly emerge.

This team is a disaster because of Maccagnan.  Most of his draft picks are out of the NFL, and those that aren't are on other teams. There's a faster way to respectability, but not one that includes building the team the right way and setting it up for long term success.  None of this means that will happen with Joe Douglas, but accumulating draft picks, not overpaying free agents, jettisoning overrated and soon to be overpaid veterans, is what he should be doing.  Unfortunately, that's a process that takes time.  And, I certainly won't begrudge anyone impatience, we've sucked a good long time, but still, fixing this the right way means slowly.

[SAR I]

2 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

The average 8-8 team... How many "starters" do they have?  This metric you've created... It could use some context.

Also, we were 2-14 with the league's worst QB, and have traded away "starters" to improve draft capital this year and next year.

The problem, as I see it, is that you believed in this team, Gase, and Darnold, too much last year, and your expectations were completely out of whack.  If you correctly viewed the 6-2 finish to the prior year as a result of an exceptionally easy schedule featuring the 5/6 worst defenses in the NFL as opponents, and understood just how bad Sam Darnold was, a bad 2020 should have been no surprise.

Douglas has had two free agency periods (wherein he's made it clear he's looking for mid-level talent with short-term fair contracts), and one draft (where he got two of the teams "starters," with more to possibly emerge.

This team is a disaster because of Maccagnan.  Most of his draft picks are out of the NFL, and those that aren't are on other teams. There's a faster way to respectability, but not one that includes building the team the right way and setting it up for long term success.  None of this means that will happen with Joe Douglas, but accumulating draft picks, not overpaying free agents, jettisoning overrated and soon to be overpaid veterans, is what he should be doing.  Unfortunately, that's a process that takes time.  And, I certainly won't begrudge anyone impatience, we've sucked a good long time, but still, fixing this the right way means slowly.

Good post, I agree with most of it.  Where I see things differently:

Maccagnan was awful, no doubt.  But we had some pieces that would have made us a better team today had Douglas kept them.  Jamal Adams and Leonard Williams are better than anyone we have at the respective positions.  While I understand the strategy (get cheaper, younger players with more value) the execution isn't working.  Only Bechton looks like a potentially great player and we could have had Bechton and Jamal and Leonard and been a lot more excited about our future.

As for Darnold, I wanted to believe in him but he never showed anything.  As for Gase, I wanted a non-rookie non-defensive head coach and I don't think he got a fair shot here.  No need to go through that again.  I'm glad he's gone.  I like Saleh. 

Big picture, Douglas, he's 0 for 4 right now.  Free agency '19, '20, and '21 were weak.  Draft '20 was below average.  Draft '21 looks like a huge boom/bust risk on Wilson.  Collecting draft picks and building a cache of cap space means little when the guy doing the draft doesn't look so great and no free agents want to come here.  We are putting all our eggs in the Douglas basket like never before, and I don't know if he's qualified.

SAR I

[Maxman]

6 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Good post, I agree with most of it.  Where I see things differently:

Maccagnan was awful, no doubt.  But we had some pieces that would have made us a better team today had Douglas kept them.  Jamal Adams and Leonard Williams are better than anyone we have at the respective positions.  While I understand the strategy (get cheaper, younger players with more value) the execution isn't working.  Only Bechton looks like a potentially great player and we could have had Bechton and Jamal and Leonard and been a lot more excited about our future.

As for Darnold, I wanted to believe in him but he never showed anything.  As for Gase, I wanted a non-rookie non-defensive head coach and I don't think he got a fair shot here.  No need to go through that again.  I'm glad he's gone.  I like Saleh. 

Big picture, Douglas, he's 0 for 4 right now.  Free agency '19, '20, and '21 were weak.  Draft '20 was below average.  Draft '21 looks like a huge boom/bust risk on Wilson.  Collecting draft picks and building a cache of cap space means little when the guy doing the draft doesn't look so great and no free agents want to come here.  We are putting all our eggs in the Douglas basket like never before, and I don't know if he's qualified.

SAR I

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Joe Douglas got hired in June 2019, that free agency class isn't on him.

[SAR I]

19 minutes ago, Maxman said:

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Joe Douglas got hired in June 2019, that free agency class isn't on him.

He brought in a bunch of bust kickers and bust offensive linemen.   Ryan Kalil, Nate Hairston, Demarius Thomas, Taylor Bertolet, Karre Vedvek.

He orchestrated a trade of Leonard Williams.

Joe Douglas made moves in 2019.  A lot, in fact.

SAR I

[BornJetsFan1983]

5 hours ago, Warfish said:

-Better Head Coach (Gase was the worst I've ever seen.)

-Better Offensive Coordinator (Did we even have an O-Co under Gase, really?)

-Better Offensive System (Shanny-style WCO > Gase Insanity)

-Better QB (We have to presume Wilson won't be dead last in the NFL, otherwise why would we dump Sam and draft Wilson, amirite?)

-Better at RB (No more feeding old Gore.)

-Better #1 WR (Davis over Perriman.)

-Better #2 WR (Mims healthy vs. missed most of season.)

-Not having a depth guy like Berrios be #2 in Catches at WR, lol.

-Better O-line (almost by default, Becton 2nd Year, high Draft Pick presumably)

-Better Edge (Carl Lawson)

-Better LB (Mosely back)

-Better CB (presuming we sign Sherman post-draft and/or draft a CB)

-Better play from JD 2020 Draft Class (Hall at CB fully healthy, Zuninga at Edge second year, Perine at RB, Davis at Safety 2nd year, etc).

-Presumed upgrades at a number of positions (#23 pick, #34 pick at minimum should be upgrades).

Will we win a Super Bowl in 2021?  We gonna be #1 in Offense, #1 in Defense?  Probably not, lol. ?  And no one is saying we will or should.

Should we be able to expect a competitive team that is in every game and competes and should be around .500 or better?

Hell yes we should! ?

 

true...teh biggest of all these points is the coaching,

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, SAR I said:

Good post, I agree with most of it.  Where I see things differently:

Maccagnan was awful, no doubt.  But we had some pieces that would have made us a better team today had Douglas kept them.  Jamal Adams and Leonard Williams are better than anyone we have at the respective positions.  While I understand the strategy (get cheaper, younger players with more value) the execution isn't working.  Only Bechton looks like a potentially great player and we could have had Bechton and Jamal and Leonard and been a lot more excited about our future.

As for Darnold, I wanted to believe in him but he never showed anything.  As for Gase, I wanted a non-rookie non-defensive head coach and I don't think he got a fair shot here.  No need to go through that again.  I'm glad he's gone.  I like Saleh. 

Big picture, Douglas, he's 0 for 4 right now.  Free agency '19, '20, and '21 were weak.  Draft '20 was below average.  Draft '21 looks like a huge boom/bust risk on Wilson.  Collecting draft picks and building a cache of cap space means little when the guy doing the draft doesn't look so great and no free agents want to come here.  We are putting all our eggs in the Douglas basket like never before, and I don't know if he's qualified.

SAR I

Leonard Williams - I'd like to see maintain his performance outside of a contract year.  Based on his performance as a Jet, it was absolutely the right move to move on from him.  Sure, I wish we had 2020 LW, but we never had that player, and I'm hesitant to believe the Giants ever will again.

Jamal Adams - He was always going to be better than who we replaced him with at SS last year.  This trade was about the strategy you've identified above.  That having been said, the win of that trade was always not making Jamal Adams the highest paid safety and one of the highest paid defenders in the league.  It should come as no surprise that there's been radio silence re: his extension in Seattle.  I'm not a fan of predicting or pontificating on things we can and will never know, but if I indulge, do you not believe Seattle wouldn't take a do-over on the trade if they had the opportunity?  I think they'd do it in a heartbeat.

Becton looks like he has a chance to be a top tackle and I believe Mims will be a quality NFL WR.  So, that's two good players, and who knows what else will come from that draft at this point.  It was one year, and we're talking about 3rd round picks and beyond.  How many obviously good players came from round 3 and beyond last year?  I'd guess few, as of today - but I imagine many more, over the next couple of years.

I actually agree with a lot of what you've said about Gase.  He was cleaning up a Port Authority Bathroom after Santa-Con.  But, I would think if that was your belief, you'd also have to extend some of that to Douglas, with the acknowledgement that the stink on this team isn't going away so quickly.

I don't look at Douglas as 0-4.  I think he's done a great job in FA, actually.  But, that's because I'm fully on board with mid-level FA's on short term deals.  I don't want albatross contracts that we can't get away from.  He hasn't made the team much better through FA, but I think that's okay.  He's avoided CJ Moselys, Leveon Bells, Trumaine Johnsons, and I think that's great.

I have no idea how Wilson will turn out, but I think it's the right move, and I'm happy to have 23 and 34 to add to our future and support him.  And, I'll be happy to have 2 1s, and 2 2s next year as well.  All the eggs may be in Douglas's basket, yes, but that's where we want them.  If he sucks, this was all never going to work out anyway.  Give him good draft capital, let him use it to improve the team, and lets hope it works out.  That's all we can do.

[shuler82]

5 hours ago, SAR I said:

Someone wake me up when we have 3 players on our roster that another NFL team would make a starter.

SAR I

Considering the improved roster this year over 2020 how do you think they’ll start the season...6-0?

[Maxman]

19 minutes ago, SAR I said:

He brought in a bunch of bust kickers and bust offensive linemen.   Ryan Kalil, Nate Hairston, Demarius Thomas, Taylor Bertolet, Karre Vedvek.

He orchestrated a trade of Leonard Williams.

Joe Douglas made moves in 2019.  A lot, in fact.

SAR I

LOL.  Good stuff man. I seriously do appreciate you taking the hit on this. It is great for the board.  Thanks again.

[SAR I]

7 minutes ago, shuler82 said:

Considering the improved roster this year over 2020 how do you think they’ll start the season...6-0?

If I said 0-5 would you call me crazy?  

The roster has to be improved over last year, I mean, it can't get much worse.  Its a matter of whether or not a) Douglas nails the draft, b) the QB is an immediate gamer, c) the players play beyond their abilities because of Saleh, and d) the Bills collapse harder than expected with their window being closed.

SAR I

[SAR I]

5 minutes ago, Maxman said:

LOL.  Good stuff man. I seriously do appreciate you taking the hit on this. It is great for the board.  Thanks again.

Joe Douglas wasn't an innocent bystander in 2019.  Just his inability to find a kicker cost us 3 games and a playoff berth.  And the gift he was given?  10 months to prepare for his first draft?  Where most GM's get 2?  Color me unimpressed so far.

Its funny how people forget we were 7-9 a scant two seasons before Joe Douglas really sunk his teeth into the job.  Now we're the league joke.  An expansion team.  Didn't need to be like this.  

SAR I

[Maxman]

2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Joe Douglas wasn't an innocent bystander in 2019.  Just his inability to find a kicker cost us 3 games and a playoff berth.  And the gift he was given?  10 months to prepare for his first draft?  Where most GM's get 2?  Color me unimpressed so far.

Its funny how people forget we were 7-9 a scant two seasons before Joe Douglas really sunk his teeth into the job.  Now we're the league joke.  An expansion team.  Didn't need to be like this.  

SAR I

I get it and thanks again.

Hey I should probably back channel this but we just upgraded out accounting system. I know in the past you mentioned you weren't a fan of the paper checks we send out. I should be live on the new system the middle of next week. I think that means that yes, for May, we can finally set up an automated Venmo.

More info to follow, thanks!

[Jimmy 2 Times]

6 hours ago, TheClashFan said:

I'm in!  The Jets will TRIPLE their wins from a year ago!

6-10, baby!

 

Well, they blew three games they had won (Denver, Raiders, and Pats) so that horrible team really went 5-11.  
 

15-2 it is!

[SAR I]

5 minutes ago, Maxman said:

I get it and thanks again.

Hey I should probably back channel this but we just upgraded out accounting system. I know in the past you mentioned you weren't a fan of the paper checks we send out. I should be live on the new system the middle of next week. I think that means that yes, for May, we can finally set up an automated Venmo.

More info to follow, thanks!

SAR I

[slats]

42 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Jamal Adams and Leonard Williams are better than anyone we have at the respective positions. 

Maye is better than Adams and QW is better than LW, at best it could be argued either way. Weird place to pick a fight, especially with Jamal basically fire-bombing his way out of NY, and Joe Douglas able to get two first round picks for him despite the cacophony bellowing from Adams’ camp. $35-40M/year for those two? That’s your idea of roster building? 

[rangerous]

6 hours ago, rldev said:

Becton, Williams and Mosley. There's three.

add mims and maye and maybe mcgovern.

[varjet]

I am in the first one in line to call out Douglas' third and fourth rounds last year, which at this point counter the argument that he knows what he is doing drafting.   But this year will be a better reflection of those players.  If Clark can play well at Guard that is somewhat of a redemption.  The Zuniga and Morgan picks are looking inexcusable, and Perine is a toss up, but let's see how things go this year.  

 I thought JD did the best he could in FA 2019.  Fant and McGovern were expensive upgrades.   The general consensus is that his FA 2020 is much better.  Lawson and Davis are real additions.  JD needs a much, much better draft in 2021.  

It would not surprise me if JD trades down from one or both of 23 and 34.  JD needs more draft picks.   We look at the roster and are impressed, but we can see at least 10 first year players make this roster.  

[UnknownJetFan]

6 hours ago, SAR I said:

Someone wake me up when we have 3 players on our roster that another NFL team would make a starter.

SAR I

QW, Becton, Maye, and Mann. That's 4. I am not even counting anyone newly added from FA, but Lawson would start for most teams as well.

[Beerfish]

The oline and thus the whole season is like a rickety house of cards at this point in time.  If Douglas does not find a way to get some quality help in the draft the season could be over in week one if we get an injury on the oline.

Our depth is awful.

Oh our D will look good and Saleh will be praised for doing a great job but the offense sucks talent wise and depth wise and we have a rookie at QB.

[SAR I]

2 hours ago, slats said:

Maye is better than Adams and QW is better than LW, at best it could be argued either way. Weird place to pick a fight, especially with Jamal basically fire-bombing his way out of NY, and Joe Douglas able to get two first round picks for him despite the cacophony bellowing from Adams’ camp. $35-40M/year for those two? That’s your idea of roster building? 

Before we get to the value of a contract or what money is or isn't logical, we have to get through the barrier that says the vast majority of NFL free agents don't want to come here.  Maye and Adams.  Quinnen and Leonard.  Mims and Anderson.  We would be a far better team with those 6 than the 3 that remain and a bunch of asterisks and future draft capital.

"Roster building" isn't in a vacuum.  The fact that we aren't a good destination is the first thing that needs to be corrected.  Gase deserved to get fired, there was no stopping the quick trigger on the entire staff, but it sent a bad message.  You know how the league used to mock the Browns?  Well, that's us now.  It would have shown the rest of the league that we are loyal to our homegrown players if we found a way to keep our homegrown players in the context of the turmoil in the front office and coaching staff.  That's how I would have spent the money.  I wouldn't have sent the message to draftees and free agents that you can bust your ass here and they'll still show you the door.

SAR I

[SAR I]

2 hours ago, UnknownJetFan said:

QW, Becton, Maye, and Mann. That's 4. I am not even counting anyone newly added from FA, but Lawson would start for most teams as well.

5!  Yes!

Only 10 more years to the playoffs!  Thanks Joe!

SAR I

[Jet Life]

SAR is good at taking the opposite opinion, even though he’s always wrong. Never thought I’d see anyone dying on the Gase, Darnold, Adams & Leo hill. But here we are

[BettyBoop]

9 hours ago, SAR I said:

Someone wake me up when we have 3 players on our roster that another NFL team would make a starter.

SAR I

“Would you laugh if I told you we will be 5-0....?”  

Poor SORE I.  Alone in his basement eating his mommy’s meatloaf while licking his wounds now that his mentor, Gaze, is gone.  Playing with his toy BMWs while making up new memes.