Judging QB's in Todays NFL

[JustInFudge]

33 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Lol

Brady just won a SB. In his bifocal years.

Brees rewrote record books in large part by rolling out to throw, often throwing in the run, not by standing still like a statue whose feet need to be set just-so. He nearly got to the SB as well this year, despite what's very advanced age for the NFL.

Rivers made the playoffs as such a "statue" QB; years past his prime; and did so throwing to just meh has-beens, never weres, and a raw rookie. 

There's so much more that's wrong with this post it's probably not worth the effort to dissect further; like listing dramatically dissimilar QBs as the same type, the absurd idea that great pocket QBs are non-athletes, or as though what wins in the game today is suddenly different than just 10 years ago.

A field-smart QB with an accurate, strong-enough arm and a quick release is and will always be an asset. If he's also super mobile, hey even better, but that's neither a substitute for lesser passing skills nor even a requirement to QB one's team to a Super Bowl. 

You just proved my point.  Brees and Rivers retired.  They’re a dying breed. They are all done and gone and the future are freaks.  Brady is a freak, I’m told, so again, welcome to today’s NFL.   You need a freak athlete at QB. 

[Asymmetrical]

The mental part will always be the key but I think the ship has sailed on the statues. HS and college teams are putting the ball in the hands of better athletes and the game is naturally evolving to reflect that. Seems like the Eli Manning mold is going to become more of an outlier as teams value qbs that have at least the functional athleticism to buy time, if not outright dual threats.

[Biggs]

4 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

You just proved my point.  Brees and Rivers retired.  They’re a dying breed. They are all done and gone and the future are freaks.  Brady is a freak, I’m told, so again, welcome to today’s NFL.   You need a freak athlete at QB. 

Brees and Rivers aren't a dying breed.  They are part of a very small breed of elite NFL QB's.  Small numbers and dying aren't the same thing. 

[Jet Nut]

20 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

And now the goal posts change.  I don’t even know why I try with you.  And yet still, what I said was 100% accurate.  1 statue remains.  Brady.  The rest are gone and done.  The future are physical freaks.  If you don’t understand how Mahomes is a physical freak, well, that’s not my problem.  

Your just a baby who cant bring him self to say, fair point.

Yeah, why bother.  Just give me neg reps

Along with all the others who told you that you were wrong.  100 % wrong.  Youre out of your mind and element if youre telling us that Brady and Mannings of the world couldn't play today

[JustInFudge]

6 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Brees and Rivers aren't a dying breed.  They are part of a very small breed of elite NFL QB's.  Small numbers and dying aren't the same thing. 

Who are similar statue style QBs having success in the NFL that will be around for the long haul?

[JustInFudge]

5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Your just a baby who cant bring him self to say, fair point.

Yeah, why bother.  Just give me neg reps

Along with all the others who told you that you were wrong.  100 % wrong 

In preparation for the clean up, this post has been reported. 

[Biggs]

2 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Who are similar statue style QBs having success in the NFL that will be around for the long haul?

Lets look at the last 5 SB.  Matt Ryan vs Tom Brady, Foles Vs Brady, Brady Vs. Goff, Mahomes Vs. Garappolo, Brady Vs. Mahomes.

Go back to the last 10 years SB winning QB's   Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, Russell Wilson, Tom Brady, Payton Manning, Tom Brady, Nick Foles, Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes, Tom Brady.

[Jet Nut]

17 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

You just proved my point.  Brees and Rivers retired.  They’re a dying breed. They are all done and gone and the future are freaks.  Brady is a freak, I’m told, so again, welcome to today’s NFL.   You need a freak athlete at QB. 

LOL, the proof is a couple of 40+ year olds finally retired.

In your mind they had to because the game is changing.  

 

 

[Jet Nut]

6 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

In preparation for the clean up, this post has been reported. 

Report it.

Youre junior SAR routine is noted

[Biggs]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

LOL, the proof is a couple of 40+ year olds finally retired.

In your mind they had to because the game is changing.  

 

 

The Colts just replaced RIvers with  Carson Wentz.  Not exactly the new breed super athlete at QB.  

[Maxman]

I am getting tired of all the fighting.

[Maxman]

My first clue should have been when I had to lock my thread last week asking everyone to get along.

A few people have been banned since then. A few more seem to be coming soon.

Here's the thing, when I do this I get ten PMs explaining how the other person is wrong. Please don't PM me. I just asked everyone to get along and nobody is listening so it is what it is. The lack of respect does bother me though. Simply just ask people to walk away and for some reason there's several people here not listening.

We will deal with it.

[Maxman]

Opening this back up because it was a good thread minus the silly grammar school bickering.

If you find yourself involved in grammar school bickering or in neg rep wars, kindly check yourself before we....well you get it.

[Smashmouth]

7 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Do you even read what you write?  You said word for word, copied and pasted:

Manning's, Brady, Brees, Rivers - statues who can throw the ball - those days are long long long gone.

This is what I responded to, dont fog over it.  Your words, to the letter.

Even here you cover for your initial post and then go and repeat the same point one more time: 

It's not a prediction anymore, it's an actual, happening.  Brady is not the future of the NFL. 

What makes Mahomes a physical freak?  His arm?  People said these same things about Cunningham, Elway, Moon, S Young, McNair, Vick, McNabb etc

The key is none of the NFL QB's mentioned are "running" QB's they are good athletes but they are no where near what you would call runners. When it comes to these guys they all move very well in the pocket and keep their eyes down field while the athletic running QB may take his eyes off the objective, thinking he can run from danger and putting himself in a position to take a hit at some point which makes everyone watching them cringe. When Fields took that hit in the BCS game vs Clemson I'm sure everyone associated with him said a little prayer on a run that he really did not have to make. 

Running QB's who just so happen to be fantastic athletes as well never last in the NFL whether it be todays NFL or years past NFL. I'm not talking about scramblers here and I'm not talking movement in the pocket or even roll outs which even if you are good at rolling out its still a lower percentage pass than moving up in the pocket and stepping into a throw.

So when it comes to guys like Fields and Lawrence how much of their success in college was also due to the fact there was another option to their game like designed runs or running when things broke down ? Maybe that opened things up for them as a passer as well most likely in the intermediate passing game due to the threat of the run. If anyone thinks they can sustain that in the NFL the odds are drastically against them doing so.

When it comes to Mac Jones the movement in the pocket is flawless as are his mechanics, fast release and very quick decision making, in those areas I don't think anyone is close but damn he can't throw a ball through a brick wall . Now if Jones goes to the NFL and can't deal with the added pressure and those skills deteriorate then Oh well we have certainly seen that before but just to be clear he has the arm talent to play in the NFL the word is his recognition of plays is off the charts so in that respect he's the guy I want because he's a QB not an athlete. Just like most of the greatest QB's to play this game. 

[Jet Nut]

In his last season in NO, Brees in 11.5 games threw for 3,000 yards, 24 TDs, only 6 INTs with a 70.5% comp.

Rivers in his last season, played 16, threw for over 4,100 yards, 24 TDs, 11 INTs, and 68% comp

Both made the playoffs, winning 12 and 11 games respectively 

If you can play, you can play.

[Dunnie]

And now the goal posts change.  I don’t even know why I try with you.  And yet still, what I said was 100% accurate.  1 statue remains.  Brady.  The rest are gone and done.  The future are physical freaks.  If you don’t understand how Mahomes is a physical freak, well, that’s not my problem.  

Yeah your right Rivers, Stafford, Wentz, Jimmy G., Tannehill, Fitzpatrixk, Cousins, Caar, Joe B. ... etc etc etc

You have to stop embarrassing yourself like this.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[JustInFudge]

2 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Yeah your right Rivers, Stafford, Wentz, Jimmy G., Tannehill, Fitzpatrixk, Cousins, Caar, Joe B. ... etc etc etc

You have to stop embarrassing yourself like this.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
 

Hi Dunnie - I appreciate your response and worry about me embarrassing myself.   It seems as though, you and a few other posters had a hard time comprehending my point.  So I'll repeat again, using your examples. 

The players you've listed, suck.  Sans Ryan Tannehill who wait for wait for it, is an elite athlete.  He was a WR in college that converted to QB.  Similar to Russell Wilson, these dudes are elite athletes who play the position. 

Rivers is retired.  Brees is retired.  Stafford hasnt won dick in the NFL.   Cousins sucks.  Jimmy G. sucks.  

Wentz is a freak.  Dude is 6'6 and runs a 4.7.  This idea he doesnt fit the mold of an athletic QB, is looney tunes.  Derek Carr, ran a 4.6.  He too, is a very good athlete. 

But let me repeat myself very clearly.  There is 1 statue QB left in the NFL who is having actual success.  Not some meaningless stat line, winning.  His name is Tom Brady.  He is an anomaly.  I dont give a **** about stats.  They mean nothing.  Brees and Rivers were clearly shot, despite whatever meaningless stat line the produced.  They're done, gone, bye bye, officially out the league. 

The future stars of the NFL that will be carrying this league forward are the following players.  And news flash, this isnt an opinion, it's fact; Patrick Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, Josh Allen, Kyler Murrary, Lamar Jackson, Justin Herbert, Dak Prescott, Carson Wentz (Trevor Lawrence, Trey Lance, Justin Fields) - they are all, athletes first.  

You guys want to continue to tell me I'm wrong because look at Tom Brady.  Cool cool, missing the entire point.  He the last of a dying breed.  These High School coaches, are giving the ball to their best athlete to play QB.  That's just fact.

[JustInFudge]

16 hours ago, Maxman said:

Opening this back up because it was a good thread minus the silly grammar school bickering.

If you find yourself involved in grammar school bickering or in neg rep wars, kindly check yourself before we....well you get it.

@Jet Nut - I apologize for the neg reps, I removed them, I didnt realize it was actually @Sperm Edwards who was neg rep'ing my factual statement.  I have redistributed the neg rep accordingly.  I'm a reactionary neg rep'er. 

[Sperm Edwards]

21 hours ago, JiFapono said:

You just proved my point.  Brees and Rivers retired.  They’re a dying breed. They are all done and gone and the future are freaks.  Brady is a freak, I’m told, so again, welcome to today’s NFL.   You need a freak athlete at QB. 

Well they got less mobile as they got older. Brees was less mobile because he was 40 years old, not because he was a rooted tree on the field.

In 12+ years, Mahomes won't be scrambling the same as he does today either. That won't mean the game has passed him by, nor will it mean he won't be an effective QB, nor a dying breed. 

I think you're seeing that younger QBs move around more than older ones, but are inferring other non-causative parallels. 

There aren't 30 legit starting QBs (enough arm + brains talent) on the planet that are worth a damn - if you wanted to be generous enough to include every recent retirees from the last decade and all the up & comers it still wouldn't sniff 100 - so relative to the general population they're all freaks.

I've got plenty of worries about Wilson, too, but they're mostly related to the neck up (i.e. particularly against stiffer competition, his lack of a larger body of work, not the lack of a larger body). Where would Brohm have been drafted if he came out a year earlier & there was no shoulder-to-shoulder scouting combine that year? That's the kind of concern I've got: that maybe he just hasn't been exposed yet.

From a purely physical standpoint? Anyone who can move around and throw on the run across his body with force is plenty athletic enough to be a good QB if he's got it upstairs. If Wilson thinks he's going to easily force things in to lock-tight coverage with impunity against NFL-caliber DBs, or won't stay in a clean pocket because he thinks he can easily out-scramble NFL-caliber rushers like he probably did at BYU, and is resistant (or unable) to change that, then we'll be shopping for another QB sooner rather than later. 

[Sperm Edwards]

4 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

@Jet Nut - I apologize for the neg reps, I removed them, I didnt realize it was actually @Sperm Edwards who was neg rep'ing my factual statement.  I have redistributed the neg rep accordingly.  I'm a reactionary neg rep'er. 

In fairness I was unaware of your updated username . That's about as carefully as I skim "new" names.

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

In fairness I was unaware of your updated username . That's about as carefully as I skim "new" names.

In fairness, I woke up to my name change.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, JiFapono said:

In fairness, I woke up to my name change.

 

What's worse is Crusher previously (before I'd responded to you) told us he changed yours. And I was still oblivious. I yam what I yam.

[JustInFudge]

18 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Well they got less mobile as they got older. Brees was less mobile because he was 40 years old, not because he was a rooted tree on the field.

In 12+ years, Mahomes won't be scrambling the same as he does today either. That won't mean the game has passed him by, nor will it mean he won't be an effective QB, nor a dying breed. 

I think you're seeing that younger QBs move around more than older ones, but are inferring other non-causative parallels. 

There aren't 30 legit starting QBs (enough arm + brains talent) on the planet that are worth a damn - if you wanted to be generous enough to include every recent retirees from the last decade and all the up & comers it still wouldn't sniff 100 - so relative to the general population they're all freaks.

I've got plenty of worries about Wilson, too, but they're mostly related to the neck up (i.e. particularly against stiffer competition, his lack of a larger body of work, not the lack of a larger body). Where would Brohm have been drafted if he came out a year earlier & there was no shoulder-to-shoulder scouting combine that year? That's the kind of concern I've got: that maybe he just hasn't been exposed yet.

From a purely physical standpoint? Anyone who can move around and throw on the run across his body with force is plenty athletic enough to be a good QB if he's got it upstairs. If Wilson thinks he's going to easily force things in to lock-tight coverage with impunity against NFL-caliber DBs, or won't stay in a clean pocket because he thinks he can easily out-scramble NFL-caliber rushers like he probably did at BYU, and is resistant (or unable) to change that, then we'll be shopping for another QB sooner rather than later. 

Rivers, Brees, Manning's, Brady - they were never ever mobile dudes, running around, scrambling, buying time, etc..  The Manning's would literally just take sacks if someone was within 2 feet of them, literally just drop the ground.  

Here's my logic; High School coaches are handing the ball to more athletic players to play QB.  Period.  It is what is happening.  100%.  The RRO with a real threat when you're QB is able to run, is HUGE at that level. So hard to defend in HS.  Back in the day it was, triple option and those QB's played RB in college....or you had a stand in the pocket spread them out type of QB.  My point is, stylistically, it's changed therefore creating a dynamic at the youth level which is now playing out through college to the NFL.

So, when you look around the NFL you can easily see a distinct difference in the QB's who are retiring out of the league, compared to the QB's taking that torch and bringing the league into the future.  I honestly dont know how you can sit here and deny that, it's just an actual happening.  You think Kyler Murray at 5'10 would go #1 overall 10 years ago?  

Do you have some statue style QB's left in the NFL?  Sure.  But, they all suck.  Goff, Stafford, Cousins, Bridgewater, Dalton, Jimmy G., and yes, I understand Goff/Jimmy G. went to the SB, but was it because of them?  meh. I dont think so, they suck and that played out in those SB's.    You actually want any of these dudes taking your team into the future?  Of course not.  Therefore, the future of the NFL is now and they're all freak athletes who happen to play QB.

[adb280z]

35 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Hi Dunnie - I appreciate your response and worry about me embarrassing myself.   It seems as though, you and a few other posters had a hard time comprehending my point.  So I'll repeat again, using your examples. 

The players you've listed, suck.  Sans Ryan Tannehill who wait for wait for it, is an elite athlete.  He was a WR in college that converted to QB.  Similar to Russell Wilson, these dudes are elite athletes who play the position. 

Rivers is retired.  Brees is retired.  Stafford hasnt won dick in the NFL.   Cousins sucks.  Jimmy G. sucks.  

Wentz is a freak.  Dude is 6'6 and runs a 4.7.  This idea he doesnt fit the mold of an athletic QB, is looney tunes.  Derek Carr, ran a 4.6.  He too, is a very good athlete. 

But let me repeat myself very clearly.  There is 1 statue QB left in the NFL who is having actual success.  Not some meaningless stat line, winning.  His name is Tom Brady.  He is an anomaly.  I dont give a **** about stats.  They mean nothing.  Brees and Rivers were clearly shot, despite whatever meaningless stat line the produced.  They're done, gone, bye bye, officially out the league. 

The future stars of the NFL that will be carrying this league forward are the following players.  And news flash, this isnt an opinion, it's fact; Patrick Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, Josh Allen, Kyler Murrary, Lamar Jackson, Justin Herbert, Dak Prescott, Carson Wentz (Trevor Lawrence, Trey Lance, Justin Fields) - they are all, athletes first.  

You guys want to continue to tell me I'm wrong because look at Tom Brady.  Cool cool, missing the entire point.  He the last of a dying breed.  These High School coaches, are giving the ball to their best athlete to play QB.  That's just fact.

Matt Ryan is still productive.

Stafford had to play in Detroit, the only franchise in the NFL that might be more inept than the Jets.

[sec101row23]

14 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Rivers, Brees, Manning's, Brady - they were never ever mobile dudes, running around, scrambling, buying time, etc..  The Manning's would literally just take sacks if someone was within 2 feet of them, literally just drop the ground.  

Here's my logic; High School coaches are handing the ball to more athletic players to play QB.  Period.  It is what is happening.  100%.  The RRO with a real threat when you're QB is able to run, is HUGE at that level. So hard to defend in HS.  Back in the day it was, triple option and those QB's played RB in college....or you had a stand in the pocket spread them out type of QB.  My point is, stylistically, it's changed therefore creating a dynamic at the youth level which is now playing out through college to the NFL.

So, when you look around the NFL you can easily see a distinct difference in the QB's who are retiring out of the league, compared to the QB's taking that torch and bringing the league into the future.  I honestly dont know how you can sit here and deny that, it's just an actual happening.  You think Kyler Murray at 5'10 would go #1 overall 10 years ago?  

Do you have some statue style QB's left in the NFL?  Sure.  But, they all suck.  Goff, Stafford, Cousins, Bridgewater, Dalton, Jimmy G., and yes, I understand Goff/Jimmy G. went to the SB, but was it because of them?  meh. I dont think so, they suck and that played out in those SB's.    You actually want any of these dudes taking your team into the future?  Of course not.  Therefore, the future of the NFL is now and they're all freak athletes who happen to play QB.

You are correct in what the evolution of the QB is heading towards.  The influence of what is happening in college eventually works its way into the NFL.  You can only draft what is coming out of the college game.   We could see this coming for a while now, the proliferation of the spread offense and the RPO game has changed the type of athletes that are playing various positions now.   
 

We don’t only see this in the QB position, where obviously it’s trending towards the more freakish athlete lining up behind center, but we also this in the linebacker position.   Linebackers have become smaller and faster due to that fact that they need to cover a lot more space than before.  We now see 220-230 pound linebackers coming into the NFL.  The days of the 250 pound thumper ILBer is now gone, those guys are dinosaurs.  We don’t see nearly as many 340 pound DTs and NTs.   
 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Rivers, Brees, Manning's, Brady - they were never ever mobile dudes, running around, scrambling, buying time, etc..  The Manning's would literally just take sacks if someone was within 2 feet of them, literally just drop the ground.  

Here's my logic; High School coaches are handing the ball to more athletic players to play QB.  Period.  It is what is happening.  100%.  The RRO with a real threat when you're QB is able to run, is HUGE at that level. So hard to defend in HS.  Back in the day it was, triple option and those QB's played RB in college....or you had a stand in the pocket spread them out type of QB.  My point is, stylistically, it's changed therefore creating a dynamic at the youth level which is now playing out through college to the NFL.

So, when you look around the NFL you can easily see a distinct difference in the QB's who are retiring out of the league, compared to the QB's taking that torch and bringing the league into the future.  I honestly dont know how you can sit here and deny that, it's just an actual happening.  You think Kyler Murray at 5'10 would go #1 overall 10 years ago?  

Do you have some statue style QB's left in the NFL?  Sure.  But, they all suck.  Goff, Stafford, Cousins, Bridgewater, Dalton, Jimmy G., and yes, I understand Goff/Jimmy G. went to the SB, but was it because of them?  meh. I dont think so, they suck and that played out in those SB's.    You actually want any of these dudes taking your team into the future?  Of course not.  Therefore, the future of the NFL is now and they're all freak athletes who happen to play QB.

Brees was always a rollout QB at his best. What made him a "freak" was his pinpoint accuracy. What made the others "freaks" was their arm strength and/or accuracy. 

I get your rationale, but I think you're just seeing a combo of changes in what's ultimately a very small subset. There were always "athletic" QBs getting drafted (however you want to subjectively grade them as being such). Most failed. 

Would Kyler Murray have gone #1 overall 10 years ago? Perhaps, perhaps not, but if not it's more a function of negativity towards short-QB bias than running-QB bias. Vick was Kyler Murray years before, and he went #1. Brees was short without Vick's wheels, and was passed on in round 1 outright. Vick was the next-generation QB.

What's also changed is the college game: ultra-mobile QBs in college aren't just coached to be RBs who can throw a little better than the other RBs. Throw in some other-reason bias if you will, as some of that existed too, but of late imo that's what's what's leading them to get drafted higher.

I'm not even going to delve deeply into your who sucks / who doesn't list. I think it'd result in subjective rationalizations of what's holding some QBs back and what's elevating others. I'd expect ignoring successes as insignificant while magnifying failures, in a way that a preferred-list of QBs isn't subject to.

All I think this is really? A greater number of QBs coming out are more mobile than previously. However I think it's an argument too far that the game's passed by those that aren't. Those others being retired is totally irrelevant, seeing how if they weren't retired they wouldn't be unsuccessful. Playing a way that's passed by, they were still beating up on pretty much everyone.

If a QB is field-smart & can throw, the game's not passing him by. Good QBs are good and bad QBs are bad, and there's more to it than waist-down mobility (which I sense you know, despite this line of argument). In any era, Peyton Manning becomes a HOF QB and despite their 40 times Blaine Gabbert, Geno Smith, Brett Hundley, etc. aren't. What made Tannehill night & day better than Mariota wasn't his greater mobility; it was his passing. 

[Biggs]

Last year Joe Borrow went 1 and looks like he's going to be great.  Mac Jones is going to go in the top 10.   Kyle Murray hasn't broken into the top half of the league in QBR.   Derrick Carr and Kirk Cousins both were in the top 10 in QBR last year. 

This is nonsense.  Drew Brees was old without mobiity and had a rag arm last year he still was able to be in the top 6 and go 9 and 3 in his starts.

Guys who can see it react to it get the ball out on time, basically the ability to process and react accurately will always be top NFL QB's.    Kurt Warner walked out of a grocery store and put up HOF numbers based on his ability to distribute the ball accurately almost nothing more to his game. 

[Dunnie]

Brees was always a rollout QB at his best. What made him a "freak" was his pinpoint accuracy. What made the others "freaks" was their arm strength and/or accuracy. 
I get your rationale, but I think you're just seeing a combo of changes in what's ultimately a very small subset. There were always "athletic" QBs getting drafted (however you want to subjectively grade them as being such). Most failed. 
Would Kyler Murray have gone #1 overall 10 years ago? Perhaps, perhaps not, but if not it's more a function of negativity towards short-QB bias than running-QB bias. Vick was Kyler Murray years before, and he went #1. Brees was short without Vick's wheels, and was passed on in round 1 outright. Vick was the next-generation QB.
What's also changed is the college game: ultra-mobile QBs in college aren't just coached to be RBs who can throw a little better than the other RBs. Throw in some other-reason bias if you will, as some of that existed too, but of late imo that's what's what's leading them to get drafted higher.
I'm not even going to delve deeply into your who sucks / who doesn't list. I think it'd result in subjective rationalizations of what's holding some QBs back and what's elevating others. I'd expect ignoring successes as insignificant while magnifying failures, in a way that a preferred-list of QBs isn't subject to.
All I think this is really? A greater number of QBs coming out are more mobile than previously. However I think it's an argument too far that the game's passed by those that aren't. Those others being retired is totally irrelevant, seeing how if they weren't retired they wouldn't be unsuccessful. Playing a way that's passed by, they were still beating up on pretty much everyone.
If a QB is field-smart & can throw, the game's not passing him by. Good QBs are good and bad QBs are bad, and there's more to it than waist-down mobility (which I sense you know, despite this line of argument). In any era, Peyton Manning becomes a HOF QB and despite their 40 times Blaine Gabbert, Geno Smith, Brett Hundley, etc. aren't. What made Tannehill night & day better than Mariota wasn't his greater mobility; it was his passing. 

Kyler went 1 for one reason alone ... the coach of the Arizona Cardinals.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[Dunnie]

Hi Dunnie - I appreciate your response and worry about me embarrassing myself.   It seems as though, you and a few other posters had a hard time comprehending my point.  So I'll repeat again, using your examples. 
The players you've listed, suck.  Sans Ryan Tannehill who wait for wait for it, is an elite athlete.  He was a WR in college that converted to QB.  Similar to Russell Wilson, these dudes are elite athletes who play the position. 
Rivers is retired.  Brees is retired.  Stafford hasnt won dick in the NFL.   Cousins sucks.  Jimmy G. sucks.  
Wentz is a freak.  Dude is 6'6 and runs a 4.7.  This idea he doesnt fit the mold of an athletic QB, is looney tunes.  Derek Carr, ran a 4.6.  He too, is a very good athlete. 
But let me repeat myself very clearly.  There is 1 statue QB left in the NFL who is having actual success.  Not some meaningless stat line, winning.  His name is Tom Brady.  He is an anomaly.  I dont give a **** about stats.  They mean nothing.  Brees and Rivers were clearly shot, despite whatever meaningless stat line the produced.  They're done, gone, bye bye, officially out the league. 
The future stars of the NFL that will be carrying this league forward are the following players.  And news flash, this isnt an opinion, it's fact; Patrick Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, Josh Allen, Kyler Murrary, Lamar Jackson, Justin Herbert, Dak Prescott, Carson Wentz (Trevor Lawrence, Trey Lance, Justin Fields) - they are all, athletes first.  
You guys want to continue to tell me I'm wrong because look at Tom Brady.  Cool cool, missing the entire point.  He the last of a dying breed.  These High School coaches, are giving the ball to their best athlete to play QB.  That's just fact.

I suggest you look at Matt Staffords stats before responding again.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[Dunnie]

Hi Dunnie - I appreciate your response and worry about me embarrassing myself.   It seems as though, you and a few other posters had a hard time comprehending my point.  So I'll repeat again, using your examples. 
The players you've listed, suck.  Sans Ryan Tannehill who wait for wait for it, is an elite athlete.  He was a WR in college that converted to QB.  Similar to Russell Wilson, these dudes are elite athletes who play the position. 
Rivers is retired.  Brees is retired.  Stafford hasnt won dick in the NFL.   Cousins sucks.  Jimmy G. sucks.  
Wentz is a freak.  Dude is 6'6 and runs a 4.7.  This idea he doesnt fit the mold of an athletic QB, is looney tunes.  Derek Carr, ran a 4.6.  He too, is a very good athlete. 
But let me repeat myself very clearly.  There is 1 statue QB left in the NFL who is having actual success.  Not some meaningless stat line, winning.  His name is Tom Brady.  He is an anomaly.  I dont give a **** about stats.  They mean nothing.  Brees and Rivers were clearly shot, despite whatever meaningless stat line the produced.  They're done, gone, bye bye, officially out the league. 
The future stars of the NFL that will be carrying this league forward are the following players.  And news flash, this isnt an opinion, it's fact; Patrick Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, Josh Allen, Kyler Murrary, Lamar Jackson, Justin Herbert, Dak Prescott, Carson Wentz (Trevor Lawrence, Trey Lance, Justin Fields) - they are all, athletes first.  
You guys want to continue to tell me I'm wrong because look at Tom Brady.  Cool cool, missing the entire point.  He the last of a dying breed.  These High School coaches, are giving the ball to their best athlete to play QB.  That's just fact.

And the smart Coaches will give the ball to the guy that can process defensive schemes quickly and get the ball out of the hands ... this running back as QB thing will.be over once 1/3 of these guys are out of the league because of injury or teams realize then can gain more yard with a golden arm and insane accuracy.

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[Sperm Edwards]

5 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Kyler went 1 for one reason alone ... the coach of the Arizona Cardinals.

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I don't think he'd have slid very far, if at all. Otherwise Arizona would have traded down and still grabbed him. 

You might have the cart before the horse. (He went to Arizona because Murray was going to be the #1 pick, not Murray being the #1 pick because KK signed with Arizona.)

[Stark]

5 hours ago, JiFapono said:

Rivers, Brees, Manning's, Brady - they were never ever mobile dudes, running around, scrambling, buying time, etc..  The Manning's would literally just take sacks if someone was within 2 feet of them, literally just drop the ground.  

Here's my logic; High School coaches are handing the ball to more athletic players to play QB.  Period.  It is what is happening.  100%.  The RRO with a real threat when you're QB is able to run, is HUGE at that level. So hard to defend in HS.  Back in the day it was, triple option and those QB's played RB in college....or you had a stand in the pocket spread them out type of QB.  My point is, stylistically, it's changed therefore creating a dynamic at the youth level which is now playing out through college to the NFL.

So, when you look around the NFL you can easily see a distinct difference in the QB's who are retiring out of the league, compared to the QB's taking that torch and bringing the league into the future.  I honestly dont know how you can sit here and deny that, it's just an actual happening.  You think Kyler Murray at 5'10 would go #1 overall 10 years ago?  

Do you have some statue style QB's left in the NFL?  Sure.  But, they all suck.  Goff, Stafford, Cousins, Bridgewater, Dalton, Jimmy G., and yes, I understand Goff/Jimmy G. went to the SB, but was it because of them?  meh. I dont think so, they suck and that played out in those SB's.    You actually want any of these dudes taking your team into the future?  Of course not.  Therefore, the future of the NFL is now and they're all freak athletes who happen to play QB.

wait one damn minute... you legit changed your name..... lol... wtf...

so next is Crushapono, paradisapono, 80apono, gatapono (nice ring very "bot-ish"), Nynapono, Drumsapono, Smashapono (lol), IntegrityAPEapono

 

the whole board should just follow JiF on this... lol

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, Stark said:

wait one damn minute... you legit changed your name..... lol... wtf...

so next is Crushapono, paradisapono, 80apono, gatapono (nice ring very "bot-is"), Nynapono, Drumsapono, Smashapono (lol), IntegrityAPEapono

 

the whole board should just follow JiF on this... lol

Yeah I didn't realize at the time and then started breaking his balls. 

Meh, he should have considered it a love tap from Spermapono. 

[JustInFudge]

6 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Brees was always a rollout QB at his best. What made him a "freak" was his pinpoint accuracy. What made the others "freaks" was their arm strength and/or accuracy. 

I get your rationale, but I think you're just seeing a combo of changes in what's ultimately a very small subset. There were always "athletic" QBs getting drafted (however you want to subjectively grade them as being such). Most failed. 

Would Kyler Murray have gone #1 overall 10 years ago? Perhaps, perhaps not, but if not it's more a function of negativity towards short-QB bias than running-QB bias. Vick was Kyler Murray years before, and he went #1. Brees was short without Vick's wheels, and was passed on in round 1 outright. Vick was the next-generation QB.

What's also changed is the college game: ultra-mobile QBs in college aren't just coached to be RBs who can throw a little better than the other RBs. Throw in some other-reason bias if you will, as some of that existed too, but of late imo that's what's what's leading them to get drafted higher.

I'm not even going to delve deeply into your who sucks / who doesn't list. I think it'd result in subjective rationalizations of what's holding some QBs back and what's elevating others. I'd expect ignoring successes as insignificant while magnifying failures, in a way that a preferred-list of QBs isn't subject to.

All I think this is really? A greater number of QBs coming out are more mobile than previously. However I think it's an argument too far that the game's passed by those that aren't. Those others being retired is totally irrelevant, seeing how if they weren't retired they wouldn't be unsuccessful. Playing a way that's passed by, they were still beating up on pretty much everyone.

If a QB is field-smart & can throw, the game's not passing him by. Good QBs are good and bad QBs are bad, and there's more to it than waist-down mobility (which I sense you know, despite this line of argument). In any era, Peyton Manning becomes a HOF QB and despite their 40 times Blaine Gabbert, Geno Smith, Brett Hundley, etc. aren't. What made Tannehill night & day better than Mariota wasn't his greater mobility; it was his passing. 

I'm not just talking about mobility though, I'm talking about the overall package.  The freaks.  It's the package that these guys come in, 6'3-6'6, 215-240, guys that can run by you, around you, over you.   They also have big arms and can make crazy throws from pocket and on the run.  They have the goods you cant teach, it's natural athleticism.

Maybe I didnt frame this the right way.  The game hasnt passed by guys like Rivers, Brees, Brady, Manning's, etc.  Obviously father time is the factor.  When I say they're a dying breed, I dont mean it as those guys cant do it, they can still be effective.  I just mean that's not what is coming up anymore.  Those statue QB's are not the profile anymore.  Sure, there are some examples but what the recent trends are telling you, they're not the guys you want.

Just use the recent drafts as examples;

2020: Herbert elite athlete MVP caliber player. Hurts played well.  I think Burrow was thoroughly overrated but he's a better athlete then people give him credit for....ran a 4.6...very good runner in college.  Tua sucks

2019: Murray elite athlete MVP caliber player.  Jones mediocre athlete sucks. Haskins terrible athlete, bust.  Drew Lock traditional QB, sucks.

2018: Mayfield meh athlete, meh Qb.  Darnold meh athlete, terrible.  Allen/Jackson elite athletes, MVP caliber players.   Rosen terrible athlete bust.

2017: Mitch meh athlete, meh Qb.  Watson/Mahomes elite athletes, MVP caliber players.

 

 

 

 

[JustInFudge]

4 hours ago, Dunnie said:

I suggest you look at Matt Staffords stats before responding again.

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Dunnie, I will respond as much as I like to and I will not look at Matt Stafford stats because he is 35 years of age and not the future of the NFL.