Connor Hughes Mailbag (DRAFT STUFF)

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

As long as we believe PFF grades, we believe their Zach Wilson grades too, right?

And their penei Sewell grades too 

I don't know how accurate pff line grades actually are but Jets fans seem to forget that Becton didn't make the pro bowl despite leading the fans vote. That means coaches and players have a lower opinion on Becton's game than the fans 

He's a mauler in the run game and really great pass rushers like myles Garrett eat his lunch in pass protection 

Meanwhile George Fant flat out sucks in run blocking. How this bum wears a C patch is beyond understanding 

[Tranquilo]

Just now, bitonti said:

And their penei Sewell grades too 

I don't know how accurate pff line grades actually are but Jets fans seem to forget that Becton didn't make the pro bowl despite leading the fans vote. That means coaches and players have a lower opinion on Becton's game than the fans 

He's a mauler in the run game and really great pass rushers like myles Garrett eat his lunch in pass protection 

Meanwhile George Fant flat out sucks in run blocking. How this bum wears a C patch is beyond understanding 

That's fine. As long as we don't pick and choose which PFF grades we want to believe.

[bitonti]

5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I guess using your logic we’ll see how afraid he is of undercutting his signings after the draft.  
Im not buying it.  It’s why you insist on a 6 year contract 

He's in year 3 and hasn't really done anything to move the needle 

In fact we just lived through the worst Jets season since kotite 

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, Tranquilo said:

That's fine. As long as we don't pick and choose which PFF grades we want to believe.

I never said pff grades are either good or bad but let the record show that penei Sewell has their highest lineman grade of all time 

And meanwhile Jets fans want to have their cake and eat it too 

They cannot draft Zach wilson and protect him this year and deep down I think we all know this

They should be building a program before drafting the savior 

 

[Tranquilo]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

I never said pff grades are either good or bad but let the record show that penei Sewell has their highest lineman grade of all time 

If they aren't good or bad, why should we care what their record about Penei Sewell shows? But then not care what it shows about Zach Wilson?

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, Tranquilo said:

If they aren't good or bad, why should we care what their record about Penei Sewell shows? But then not care what it shows about Zach Wilson?

People seem to respect their work and it's a place to begin a conversation 

I also believe there's a difference between player x has great film and player x has a pro skill set 

Cfb is full of dudes who play great but aren't special Athletes. ZW has no measurements other than a height and weight 

[Jet Nut]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

He's in year 3 and hasn't really done anything to move the needle 

In fact we just lived through the worst Jets season since kotite 

He’s not going anywhere.  
If this off-season hasn’t proven that to you, nothing will.  
He’s being given free reign to do this rebuild the right way.  
It’s pretty obvious but if you’re allowed to fire the HC and staff, hire the new HC and staff, trade off the QB drafted at 3rd overall 3 years ago, you’re not worried 

[Tranquilo]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

People seem to respect their work and it's a place to begin a conversation 

I also believe there's a difference between player x has great film and player x has a pro skill set 

Cfb is full of dudes who play great but aren't special Athletes. ZW has no measurements other than a height and weight 

There aren't many guys comparable to Zach Wilson in CFB.

You can fall back on measurements, but there's nothing on his film that indicates that he's a below average athlete.

Anyway, you can pick and choose all you want with the PFF grades, but don't expect others to take your perspective seriously with that kind of bias.

[football guy]

1 hour ago, Tranquilo said:

There's a good supplemental article by Robert Mays on the Athletic. He talks about the situations the top 3 rookie QBs are going to go into, and he makes some good points, but what I took out of it is how the Bills built their line. The Jets went with a similar approach but the dudes Douglas signed haven't panned out. But in order to build the line, it's important to just get solid guys, you don't need superstars. And I think that's Douglas's approach. With Bector, McGovern and Fant you hope they can be that foundation that would allow them to make low key signings and draft picks.

I can't emphasize enough how strongly people in the FO said that Joe Douglas has admired the Buffalo Bills from afar and wants to build a team similar to how they did. He wanted a "CEO" coach similar to McDermott, wanted to build an infrastructure and culture similar to how they built theirs, and want to replicate their philosophy. I do think the Jets feel that the scheme being implemented is going to get the best out of some of the players. What's so great about it is that the combos are very simple, but it's about mastering technique/timing/gap reads required on the handful of blocking plays they will run, rather than being able to implement a ton of different plays and relying on the guys to overpower the DL. This coaching philosophy is: "execute what's called, and the play will work... a negative play isn't necessarily a bad play; eventually a big play will happen if you keep executing the way you're supposed to."  

In addition to the guys you mentioned, Greg Van Roten is a perfect LG for this scheme, and that's his more natural position. He can easily step in and while not special, should be a reliable starter. No idea what to expect out of Cam Clarke or Chuma Edoga, but the scheme should be easier for them to digest. The unit can be solid "on paper" if they fill RG with a non-premium pick or sign someone, but I think the team really feels it's imperative they invest an elite piece for a few reasons:

1. fills a present need at G;
2. have adequate reinforcements in the event of injury to a starting tackle; and
3. have a second building-block entrenched for the next 4+ years. 

 

Drafting a guy like Alijah Vera-Tucker or Teven Jenkins satisfies all 3... you add a guy with elite talent as a prospect who you project will develop into an above average starter at G year 1, who can easily slide in at LT/RT if someone where to miss extended time (or if Becton were to miss time you slide Fant over to the left side, move one of these guys from G to RT, and put in the backup guard), and depending how Fant progresses that player can either stay at G or move over to RT and solve either position for 4+ years, assuming of course their projection of the player is correct. 

I think Douglas watched the line play over the past 2 years in horror, and seeing guys like Conor McDermott and Josh Andrews getting starts at LT/RT must have given him nightmares. I think he is fully aware that he needs to protect his new QB and I think he will lean towards taking an OL if it's close... publicly they'll say "best player available", but I really do think that their final board will have OL with lower grades higher up than other guys they had higher grades on for the reason that they are hellbent on building the offensive line into a stable and effective unit. 

[CanadaSteve]

12 minutes ago, bitonti said:

He's in year 3 and hasn't really done anything to move the needle 

In fact we just lived through the worst Jets season since kotite 

Kinda shows how bad the last 10 years have been.

And if you REALLY believe he hasn't done anything in three years, then there is nothing that anyone can say to make you believe otherwise.

 

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

15 minutes ago, bitonti said:

If pff grades are to be believed, Becton's average about 32nd out of the 64 starting tackles. Fant is in the 50s somewhere 

McGovern was below average according to the pff so essentially, the Jets have one decent lineman and a bunch of folks who probably don't start on other teams 

All is lost.  The draft will be a disaster.  Douglas is terrible and should be fired.  Saleh was a mistake and is worse than Gase. Darnold is the next Drew Brees.  Wilson has no shot and will have shoulder surgery by mid-August. Becton will come into camp weighing 450 pounds and will join Wilson on the operating table by September. The OL is and will be Swiss cheese for the next decade. Mims will tear his hammy and can't stay on the field.  We wasted a primo 4th round pick on Morgan!  Davis and Lawson are free agent busts.  There is no reason to watch a single game this season or any season in the next decade because past performance always predicts future performance.  Cancel Sunday Ticket.  Buy tickets to the Opera for the Fall season for the next decade or find "a favorite second team" (like so many here like to say).    

Bitoni has a Joie de vivre that we should all aspire to.

[nycdan]

6 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Kinda shows how bad the last 10 years have been.

And if you REALLY believe he hasn't done anything in three years, then there is nothing that anyone can say to make you believe otherwise.

 

Particularly since he was hired in June 2019, which was less than two years ago.  But that never stopped some posters (not you) from inflating truth to support their shaky narrative.

[Ghost]

2 hours ago, Tranquilo said:

Teven Jenkins would be ideal. I think I'd trade up for him.

I just hate his age. 

[jeremy2020]

I like how DRAFT STUFF is included in the title in all caps. Makes me think it's like a warning like a sign on a door at work of BUTT STUFF so you know if ye enter then there will be BUTT STUFF going on.

The Jets don't have to draft players at 23 or 34. However, given the resources invested and the results.. well, they probably need to invest more in the line and they don't have a lot of options outside the draft. 

I think the Bills rebuild has been one to emulate. They didn't invest a lot of "high value" resources into their offensive line. Outside of Mitch Morse (and he was the weak link on their line), their guys aren't big dollar players or high round draft picks (Dawkins was pick 73). They have an undrafted free agent who looks like he will replace Morse. Their other guys are low to mid-tier free agents. Williams was one of the better right tackles and only made 2.25 million. 

I think Douglas has the right idea, but he's not taking enough shots.

[Tranquilo]

8 minutes ago, Ghost said:

I just hate his age. 

On the bright side, I hope that would mean he's closer to being ready. As long as we got a solid guy for 7-10 years, that's a great get.

[Columbia Jet Fan]

Nice to see some explanation on Clark last year. Good to see he got over the initial bumps - but still pretty skeptical about him (after being excited ont he pick) considering he wasn't even able to sniff the field in the second half of the season (even after some of our IOL went down). 

[TheClashFan]

If the Jets could somehow come away with Jenkins at 23 and Creed at 34, I'd be ecstatic. 

Jenkins could start at RG for a year if Fant looks solid in the new scheme, or maybe just win RT outright.  Creed would bump McGovern to G, which improves two spots on the line at once.

The above won't happen, but I hope JD's plan is two secure two immediate starters on the OL, one a T and the other an IOL (and he could reasonably expect to get an immediate starter as late as the third round). I think JD will be sorely tempted to trade back/down from 34.

 

[redlichtie]

2 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

mY laTeSt mOocK dRafF:

• 2.
  Zach Wilson

  QB BYU
   
• 
  23.
  Teven Jenkins

  OT Oklahoma State
   
• 
  34.
  Creed Humphrey

  OC Oklahoma
   
• 
  66.
  Dillon Radunz

  OT North Dakota State
   
• 
  86.
  Walker Little

  OT Stanford
   
• 
  113.
  James Hudson

  OT Cincinnati
  
• 
  146.
  Michael Menet

  OC Penn State
   
• 
  154.
  Drake Jackson

  OC Kentucky
   
• 
  186.
  Larry Borom

  OG Missouri
   
• 
  193.
  Jimmy Morrissey

  OC Pittsburgh
  
• 
  226.
  Dan Moore

  OT Texas A&M
   

 

Do we really need to go QB so high?....also can’t believe you’re passing on Penei Sewell with the 2nd overall pick....that’s a franchise crippling oversight right there....in fact I confidently predict that any team that doesn’t draft Penei Sewell will take decades to recover from such a catastrophic blunder...otherwise, solid draft

[jetstream23]

3 hours ago, Tranquilo said:

@TheRealLivePerl: What’s the latest on Cameron Clark?

Clark is among the more asked-about players. From my understanding, he struggled mightily early in training camp before suffering an injury. There were some on last year’s coaching staff who thought he might be a bust. The good news: Clark improved significantly once he returned and started practicing on the scout team. His early issues were likely a result of no organized team activities or minicamp. That extra preparation would have benefited him quite a bit. He’ll be in the mix for a starting position this summer, but needs to show he improved quite a bit this offseason.

Clark’s personal trainer is Duke Manyweather, who also works with Becton. We had him on the “Can’t Wait” podcast in December. Manyweather raved about Clark and his potential. You can listen to that episode here.

 

This right here is the potential game changer for the OLine.  IF.... big IF... JD and the Jets truly believe that Clark could potentially compete for a starting spot at OG or that he can develop into strong backup for 2021, and a potential starter by 2022, then it shakes up what we all think JD's gameplan should be on the interior OL.  With Clark, Lewis, GVR and McGovern, the question becomes.... do you need to add just one bonafide interior guy or more than one right now?

The problem on the Jets interior really seems to be that you have 4 guys who are quasi-starters but borderline backups.... It's not like there's just one hole where we're saying we need to replace one particular Guard or Center.  We have a sea of Meh.  I still think in an ideal world the Jets would draft a Center and move McGovern to RG for 2021.  That upgrades two spots and puts GVR in a backup role.  If you then have Cam Clark competing with Alex Lewis at LG you know you'll be no worse at LG than last year with the potential of improving it.  

The Jets would suit themselves well by finding a guy who can play two spots..... either a pure outside OT who can play both LT and RT, or a guy who plays one particular side like the right and can start 2021 at RG, then move outside to replace Fant at RT in 2022.

It's this kind of thinking that makes guys like Slater a perfect, but out of reach, fit for the Jets.  He's excellent and he can play practically every single OL spot.   It's also why I like Vera-Tucker.... he played LT but could be an excellent guard while being a backup at OT.

The two most important criteria for the Jets drafting OLinemen this year has to be:  1) Fit for the outside zone blocking scheme and 2) Positional flexibility (be a clear starter at one spot and a capable backup at another).

[jetblue95]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

He's in year 3 and hasn't really done anything to move the needle 

In fact we just lived through the worst Jets season since kotite 

he's in his 2nd full off-season (he came on board after the draft and after FA period of 2019) and we haven't even had the draft yet, so a bit premature to be saying he's in year 3.  everyone knew last year was going to be a rebuilding year, and oh yeah, this thing called a pandemic makes it a bit harder to evaluate his 1st draft class given the off-season limitations.  he shed ugly contracts, accumulated draft picks, and now is starting to stock the roster with his players.  let's see how this years draft class, and even next year's given the future picks he's acquired, play out before we start posting the help wanted sign for the GM position.

[freestater]

49 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

like how DRAFT STUFF is included in the title in all caps. Makes me think it's like a warning like a sign on a door at work of BUTT STUFF so you know if ye enter then there will be BUTT STUFF going on.

[freestater]

1 hour ago, football guy said:

I can't emphasize enough how strongly people in the FO said that Joe Douglas has admired the Buffalo Bills from afar and wants to build a team similar to how they did. He wanted a "CEO" coach similar to McDermott, wanted to build an infrastructure and culture similar to how they built theirs, and want to replicate their philosophy. I do think the Jets feel that the scheme being implemented is going to get the best out of some of the players. What's so great about it is that the combos are very simple, but it's about mastering technique/timing/gap reads required on the handful of blocking plays they will run, rather than being able to implement a ton of different plays and relying on the guys to overpower the DL. This coaching philosophy is: "execute what's called, and the play will work... a negative play isn't necessarily a bad play; eventually a big play will happen if you keep executing the way you're supposed to."  

In addition to the guys you mentioned, Greg Van Roten is a perfect LG for this scheme, and that's his more natural position. He can easily step in and while not special, should be a reliable starter. No idea what to expect out of Cam Clarke or Chuma Edoga, but the scheme should be easier for them to digest. The unit can be solid "on paper" if they fill RG with a non-premium pick or sign someone, but I think the team really feels it's imperative they invest an elite piece for a few reasons:

1. fills a present need at G;
2. have adequate reinforcements in the event of injury to a starting tackle; and
3. have a second building-block entrenched for the next 4+ years. 

 

Drafting a guy like Alijah Vera-Tucker or Teven Jenkins satisfies all 3... you add a guy with elite talent as a prospect who you project will develop into an above average starter at G year 1, who can easily slide in at LT/RT if someone where to miss extended time (or if Becton were to miss time you slide Fant over to the left side, move one of these guys from G to RT, and put in the backup guard), and depending how Fant progresses that player can either stay at G or move over to RT and solve either position for 4+ years, assuming of course their projection of the player is correct. 

I think Douglas watched the line play over the past 2 years in horror, and seeing guys like Conor McDermott and Josh Andrews getting starts at LT/RT must have given him nightmares. I think he is fully aware that he needs to protect his new QB and I think he will lean towards taking an OL if it's close... publicly they'll say "best player available", but I really do think that their final board will have OL with lower grades higher up than other guys they had higher grades on for the reason that they are hellbent on building the offensive line into a stable and effective unit. 

Any thoughts on Josh Myers C, OSU? I really think he could be a nice add in later rounds

[32EBoozer]

36 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

If you then have Cam Clark competing with Alex Lewis at LG you know you'll be no worse at LG than last year with the potential of improving it.

 
How about this guy? Nasty written all over him!

Very good technique.

[freestater]

1 minute ago, 32EBoozer said:

 
How about this guy? Nasty written all over him!

Very good technique.

Gets his shoulders into his push, uses his knees to get low and drives without losing balance. What's not to like?

[jetstream23]

7 minutes ago, freestater said:

Gets his shoulders into his push, uses his knees to get low and drives without losing balance. What's not to like?

Arms are too short to play Tackle, needs to move to Guard.

[Barton]

Jets have the worst offensive roster in the NFL - not counting the QB position.

If Douglas goes defense in the first 2 rounds, then he's a frickin idiot. Even in the 3rd rd - should be offense. 

Seriously, who the F cares about secondary play this year? Just help Zach as much as possible. Weapons and protection. THAT'S IT!

[flgreen]

1 hour ago, Ghost said:

I just hate his age. 

Not really so bad.  He turned 23 in March I think I read.  He's a Senior, so he's one year older then some of the players.  One year isn't going to affect his career 

[Integrity28]

2 hours ago, nycdan said:

Only one OG?  Way to neglect the position

 

Position versatility. ALL of my OT's and OC's can also be OG's.

[k-met57]

4 hours ago, Morrissey said:

At least Hughes is aware unlike many in the national media that OL is and should be priority.

If I see another mock draft with a defensive player going 23 and 34 I'll shoot someone.

i mean he is basically a fan ++ , so i can see that.

[C Mart]

3 hours ago, flgreen said:

IMO the best news in this article is that Becton is working with a trainer in the off-season.

Clark too.  If Becton makes a leap up, and Clark becomes a starter, whole different out look on the OL.  

he did last year too. Same guy I believe.

[flgreen]

4 minutes ago, C Mart said:

he did last year too. Same guy I believe.

Yes. Signed with him on Dec 3rd last year. 

The You tube that is atached to the article with Manyweather is an excellent watch.  He talks about Clark at the 41 min mark.  Gave me some real hope for the kid 

[C Mart]

1 minute ago, flgreen said:

Yes. Signed with him on Dec 3rd last year. 

The You tube that is atached to the article with Manyweather is an excellent watch.  He talks about Clark at the 41 min mark.  Gave me some real hope for the kid 

 Dan Shonka of Ourlads really liked Clark last year too. 

 

Dan Shonka @Ourlads_Shonka

Jan 18, 2020

@ShrineBowl

snippet #CameronClark #UNCCharlotte impressive run blocking & pass pro tackle play during the week. His best #NFL position may be guard but tackles don't grow on trees. Clark 6044 has the feet & grit to stay outside with his 34" arms and 10.5 " hands.

 

@Ourlads_Shonka

Apr 25, 2020#Jets #CameronClark OG/OT

Clark is a personal protector who relishes the role of getting physical with defenders. Plays with heavy, violent hands. He played LOT at Charlotte and even though he could stay out there in the NFL, he is likely going to move inside

[HighPitch]

2 hours ago, jetblue95 said:

 

why are you reading, let alone posting, in a thread titled connor hughes mailbag stuff, if you don't care about connor hughes' opinion/articles?

Im giving my opinion of conner hughs on my jet board thats why pappi chullo

[jetblue95]

30 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

Im giving my opinion of conner hughs on my jet board thats why pappi chullo

if you want to start a thread "HighPitch's opinion of Conner Hughes", then those that give a darn about your opinion of CH can choose to read it and those that don't care can skip the thread.  likewise, if you don't care about Conner Hughes' opinion, then skip the thread.  and this isn't anything about Conner Hughes.  don't really care one way or another.  but curious why someone would post "who cares about so-and-so's opinion" in a thread clearly marked to indicate you will be getting so-and-so's opinion

[chirorob]

3 hours ago, bitonti said:

I never said pff grades are either good or bad but let the record show that penei Sewell has their highest lineman grade of all time 

And meanwhile Jets fans want to have their cake and eat it too 

They cannot draft Zach wilson and protect him this year and deep down I think we all know this

They should be building a program before drafting the savior 

 

I was on that band wagon all off season.

That ship has sailed.