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I strongly believe Zach Wilson is being drastically overrated because of the Mahomes effect.


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38 minutes ago, Big_Slick said:

Considering that he's being drafted by a team with the least talented roster in the NFL it's likely that he'll end up being a bust.

Debatable

Will Lawerence also be a bust?  

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I am not hating on the kid or saying he is going to be bad, but the Zach Wilson hype is out of control. Just look at their draft profiles. Their draft profiles seem completely identical with a bi

Big thank you to the OP. At last. Theres finally a thread to discuss the drafting of Zach Wilson. 

Welcome to the board! I thought I'd have the honor of giving you your first thumbs down.

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4 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

I strongly believe Zach Wilson is NOT being drastically overrated because of the Mahomes effect.

He's being over rated because of the Baker Mayfield effect.  Incredible accuracy at the college level. 

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32 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The idea that Wilson is at the top of the draft board for any other reason except his performance, interviews, measurables and tapes is insane.   Joe Douglas and the Jets staff aren't betting their future on the next Patrick Mahomes.  

My point exactly, people think that he's being ranked and will be drafted based on stats only.  They then are out to prove why the impressive stats, their reasoning for believing Wilson climbed the charts are all wrong.   Its as if the rest of the process was abandoned this year for some inane reason and the leftover stats are tainted.  Covering all angles

 

 

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3 hours ago, bitonti said:

When the KC chiefs had 1 overall pick Eric fisher and all pro Schwartz at tackle they win a super bowl 

When they had Mike remmers and Andrew Wylie at tackle they got smoked 

The chiefs are an example of a team that got unlucky with injury not a team that did not need linemen

They lost the super bowl due to a lack of lineman 

Maybe, I think TB could have put up 40 on the KC defense if they needed to.  

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1 hour ago, Peace Frog said:

Well, comp % was mentioned so it's seemed fair to mention Jones.

But even still, Clemson and OSU were MUCH more talented than almost all of their competition.  That's why they've been in Nat Champ contention for the last 10 years.  

For instance one of the teams that OSU beat up on was Rutgers, or Clemson beating up on Citadel. 

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There is legitimate concern with consideration that the people they compare him to are QBs who sat for some time. That said I think we can see with the Becton pick Joe has no issue choosing high ceiling over safe. 

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38 minutes ago, flgreen said:

JaMarcus Russell, and Johnny Manziel were elite players in the SEC who went bust in the NFL.  What's your point?

BTW BYU isn't in the Mid west conference.

They are independent.  That's why they were able to play as many games as they did while the other teams were only playing 5-6

Boise State is. That's who Kyle Wilson played for. That was the caliber of competition ZW played against. My point is what i said it was. NFL corners are far superior to anything ZW has seen in college. Some of those tight window throws that we're completions in college, might not be in the NFL. Why. Because NFL corners will make a play on the ball more effectively than what he saw in college. You and others just want to respond to the part of the post you can argue about. 

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39 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Debatable

Will Lawerence also be a bust?  

Lawrence is by far the better prospect and at #1 OA he is EXPECTED to be able to elevate poor surrounding talent and improve Jacksonville in the 2021 season.

Are you saying that Wilson is so good that we can't wait to build the foundation before taking a QB?

At #2 OA I EXPECT Wilson to be able to do the same. If he can't then that's a total waste of that high a pick which could have been used to trade down and build a foundation before drafting a QB.

Much, if not all, of Wilsons succeeds depends on JD's draft picks this year. He needs to 'hit' on pieces to support Wilson this draft.

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3 hours ago, GreenReaper said:

Flaws!?!...he's about to be a Jet.  That scares the poop out of NYJ fannies

Scared to Death: Can You Really Die of Fright? Is it ...

 

 

 

Or a Bills fan, which I'm guessing HamBilly is. "Billy." And did you catch his reference to Josh Allen and how Wilson would be in his or Rodgers/Mahomes tier? Josh Allen shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as either, even if he has shown legitimate improvement in the past year. We're being punked.

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45 minutes ago, Big_Slick said:

Lawrence is by far the better prospect and at #1 OA he is EXPECTED to be able to elevate poor surrounding talent and improve Jacksonville in the 2021 season.

Are you saying that Wilson is so good that we can't wait to build the foundation before taking a QB?

At #2 OA I EXPECT Wilson to be able to do the same. If he can't then that's a total waste of that high a pick which could have been used to trade down and build a foundation before drafting a QB.

Much, if not all, of Wilsons succeeds depends on JD's draft picks this year. He needs to 'hit' on pieces to support Wilson this draft.

I didnt say anything other than Lawrence is under the gun the same way, if not more than Wilson.  

And on a worse team, with less talent.

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1 hour ago, genot said:

Boise State is. That's who Kyle Wilson played for. That was the caliber of competition ZW played against. My point is what i said it was. NFL corners are far superior to anything ZW has seen in college. Some of those tight window throws that we're completions in college, might not be in the NFL. Why. Because NFL corners will make a play on the ball more effectively than what he saw in college. You and others just want to respond to the part of the post you can argue about. 

Name the QB who wont see better corners and defenses than what they saw in college.

And name all the NFL level WRs a Wilson has played with.  That would be none, then look at the number of NFL WRs that the others have played with.

Works both ways.

 

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3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

I didnt say anything other than Lawrence is under the gun the same way, if not more than Wilson.  

And on a worse team, with less talent.

Less talent than the Jets rolled out the last two years? What games were you watching?

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14 minutes ago, Big_Slick said:

Less talent than the Jets rolled out the last two years? What games were you watching?

Remind me why the Jags are picking before the Jets... 

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10 hours ago, k-met57 said:

how about...

"I strongly believe Josh Allen is being drastically overrated because of the Wentz effect."

i can provide more examples. means nothing.

there are a lot of smart football people making these evaluations. "effect" has nothing to do with it.

Smart football people thought Trubisky was better than Mahomes and Watson, Baker and Darnold better than Allen, Tua better than Herbert...etc...etc.

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18 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

The OL was what every top college QB had

 

 

 

 

College Football: Ranking all 127 FBS offensive lines through CFB Week 13

2. BYU

Say what you will about BYU’s cupcake schedule — the team genuinely has the second-best offensive line in the entire country. Left tackle Brady Christensen and his 96.2 overall grade are on pace to shatter the PFF College era record for highest single-season PFF grade among tackles. Whether he is pass protecting or run blocking, Christensen has been elite. He has allowed just two pressures on 293 pass-blocking snaps en route to a 96.0 pass-blocking grade, and his 95.2 run-blocking grade is also the best in the FBS. He’s not the only top performer on this line, though. Center James Empey ranks fifth in the FBS in pass-blocking grade, guard Tristen Hoge ranks fifth in PFF grade and Chandon Herring ranks fourth among right tackles in PFF grade. Coach Eric Mateos, I apologize for the poison, but we have to give credit when credit is due.

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6 hours ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Or a Bills fan, which I'm guessing HamBilly is. "Billy." And did you catch his reference to Josh Allen and how Wilson would be in his or Rodgers/Mahomes tier? Josh Allen shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as either, even if he has shown legitimate improvement in the past year. We're being punked.

We 'll see how good Josh looks running for his life...behind the posse of pass rushers being gathered by JD for Saleh's D.  Draft one more mean intentioned SOB edge hombre...and Jets front four is transformed into an Apocalypse of...

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6 hours ago, legler82 said:

Smart football people thought Trubisky was better than Mahomes and Watson, Baker and Darnold better than Allen, Tua better than Herbert...etc...etc.

Making mistakes doesn’t make people dumb. Being smart and being wrong are not mutually exclusive.

Doesn’t change the fact that people making these picks are looking at everything at a much deeper level then “Mahomes bias”. Will Wilson be better then any of the other QB’s? Who the **** knows...ITS A DRAFT OF COLLEGE KIDS INTO A BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY.

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13 hours ago, genot said:

Boise State is. That's who Kyle Wilson played for. That was the caliber of competition ZW played against. My point is what i said it was. NFL corners are far superior to anything ZW has seen in college. Some of those tight window throws that we're completions in college, might not be in the NFL. Why. Because NFL corners will make a play on the ball more effectively than what he saw in college. You and others just want to respond to the part of the post you can argue about. 

Do you think that the caliber of WR ZW will be throwing to will remain the same as the caliber of WR he had at BYU while only the DB talent will increase?  Because while you are correct, there werent many stephen gilmore's on his schedule last year, he also didnt have Mims or Corey Davis to throw to so id hope that evens out a bit as those players will be able to make plays better then his BYU WRs

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8 hours ago, Big_Slick said:

Less talent than the Jets rolled out the last two years? What games were you watching?

Yeah, as bad as we were. 

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7 hours ago, legler82 said:

College Football: Ranking all 127 FBS offensive lines through CFB Week 13

2. BYU

Say what you will about [B]BYU’s cupcake schedule[/B] — the team genuinely has the second-best offensive line in the entire country. Left tackle Brady Christensen and his 96.2 overall grade are on pace to shatter the PFF College era record for highest single-season PFF grade among tackles. Whether he is pass protecting or run blocking, Christensen has been elite. He has allowed just two pressures on 293 pass-blocking snaps en route to a 96.0 pass-blocking grade, and his 95.2 run-blocking grade is also the best in the FBS. He’s not the only top performer on this line, though. Center James Empey ranks fifth in the FBS in pass-blocking grade, guard Tristen Hoge ranks fifth in PFF grade and Chandon Herring ranks fourth among right tackles in PFF grade. Coach Eric Mateos, I apologize for the poison, but we have to give credit when credit is due.

You want to some stupid PFF ranking as proof that OSU, Alabama and Clemson didnt have really good OLs.  Thats fine.

BTW, PFF also has Wilson rated above Fields.  Even with their respective OLs, so theres that.

 

Quote

 

2. ZACH WILSON, BYU

PFF BIG BOARD RANK: 2

Call him a one-year wonder if you want, but he earned an impressive 78.8 passing grade as a true freshman before injuries derailed his sophomore campaign. This past season, his 95.5 passing grade was the highest in the country. His off-platform arm talent and special throws make him an elite quarterback prospect.

 

 

 

I like both QBs.  Your getting upset because you cant people to switch their alliances, cant them to see it your way.  Sorry, thats your issue.  You love Fields, fine.  I like both, I just like Wilson better.  Move on, most people like Wilson.  Or just put me on ignore if you dont like my comments about either QB,  Why does this make you so angry?  

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i love the "he had a good OL" argument. please list all the schools with top QB prospects that had sh*t OL's....ill wait.

anyone want to guess how many OL were drafted from LSU in Joe Borrows draft year? 3

and thats just drafted...the other 2 prob just too young to get drafted.

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

You want to some stupid PFF ranking as proof that OSU, Alabama and Clemson didnt have really good OLs.  Thats fine.

BTW, PFF also has Wilson rated above Fields.  Even with their respective OLs, so theres that. 

Touchy touchy.blackish anthony anderson GIF by HULU

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I don’t know guys. I just fell like, just because he’s put in the same category as Mahomes and Rodgers without playing a single snap of football against quality opponents, how can he be overrated? It’s not his fault he had the second best OL in the entire country while playing nobodies week in and week out! I mean, have you seen his throws?? Holy cow! If you can’t see that, I don’t know how much I can help you. Sorry your all blind!!!!

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18 hours ago, HamBilly said:

I've actually watched film analysis on him unlike many on here who just watched the highlights.

His O-line was statistically amazing.

His strength of schedule was bad.

The film shows that he often threw 50/50 balls.

The film shows he would miss easy reads often.

 

Zach Wilson and Justin Fields feels like Mitch Trubisky/Watson all over again. 

Thank you for your insight Flipper.

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15 hours ago, genot said:

Boise State is. That's who Kyle Wilson played for. That was the caliber of competition ZW played against. My point is what i said it was. NFL corners are far superior to anything ZW has seen in college. Some of those tight window throws that we're completions in college, might not be in the NFL. Why. Because NFL corners will make a play on the ball more effectively than what he saw in college. You and others just want to respond to the part of the post you can argue about. 

You realize that NFL WR might be a tad better than the guys Zach played with in College.  They might actually contest 50/50 balls and win.  They might catch the high point balls.  They might extend themselves for catches away from their bodies.  

The reason Wilson is going No. 2 is he's arm and release give him the ability to throw into tight NFL windows.   Not to mention he is deadly accurate.

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20 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

IMO the single most important trait that evaluators have a hard time with is the QB's ability between the ears.  Can he understand and quickly diagnose what is happening so that he makes the right decision?  Arm strength, running ability, arm talent, etc. is fairly easy to assess and compare.  And, we see all both during the college season and at Pro Days the kinds of physical throws the prospect can make.  What we don't and can't see is whether (and how well) that prospect can adapt to the kinds of defensive schemes he'll see from Bill Belichick, the kind of coverage he'll see from Jalen Ramsey, the kind of pressure and speed he'll feel from Nick Bosa.  The only way to test for that is in Week 1 of the NFL season unfortunately.  Understand, decide, execute... in about 2.5 seconds.

and therein lies the story of the failure of Mark Sanchez and likely Darnold to join him.   ^This is why Douglas loves Wilson over others.

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16 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Name the QB who wont see better corners and defenses than what they saw in college.

And name all the NFL level WRs a Wilson has played with.  That would be none, then look at the number of NFL WRs that the others have played with.

Works both ways.

 

I'm not knocking ZW. It's not his fault that the talent level on the teams he played is sub-par. I'm not saying, and have never said he will bust. However, there's no denying that the teams some of the other draftable QB's have played are more ripe with NFL talent. Some of. His gunslinger mentality might have to be adjusted to compensate. That was my point from the get-go. 

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2 hours ago, Biggs said:

You realize that NFL WR might be a tad better than the guys Zach played with in College.  They might actually contest 50/50 balls and win.  They might catch the high point balls.  They might extend themselves for catches away from their bodies.  

The reason Wilson is going No. 2 is he's arm and release give him the ability to throw into tight NFL windows.   Not to mention he is deadly accurate.

His very impressive, thread the needle passes will be more contested in the NFL. That's not a knock on him, it's just in my view a fact.

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