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I strongly believe Zach Wilson is being drastically overrated because of the Mahomes effect.


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4 hours ago, Dcat said:

and therein lies the story of the failure of Mark Sanchez and likely Darnold to join him.   ^This is why Douglas loves Wilson over others.

JT O' Sullivan has said that Wilson is sometimes too fast to diagnose where is he were a little slower he might see something develop that's better. In JT O SAullivans last scouting video he showed the 4 incompletes because arguably ever miss was a drop. 

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I am not hating on the kid or saying he is going to be bad, but the Zach Wilson hype is out of control. Just look at their draft profiles. Their draft profiles seem completely identical with a bi

Big thank you to the OP. At last. Theres finally a thread to discuss the drafting of Zach Wilson. 

Welcome to the board! I thought I'd have the honor of giving you your first thumbs down.

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15 hours ago, Big_Slick said:

Less talent than the Jets rolled out the last two years? What games were you watching?

The ones where Jax had a one win season with an easier schedule 

Kind of why theyre picking first

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4 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

The ones where Jax had a one win season with an easier schedule 

Kind of why theyre picking first

Jax was better at tanking while JD let Gase win two meaningless games. It was Gase's farewell eff you to the Jets. He knew he was history.

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2 hours ago, Big_Slick said:

Jax was better at tanking while JD let Gase win two meaningless games. It was Gase's farewell eff you to the Jets. He knew he was history.

Nonsense, teams dont tank, they didnt tank.  They just were a 1 win team.

Jets could easily have won 5 games.

 

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34 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Nonsense, teams dont tank, they didnt tank.  They just were a 1 win team.

Jets could easily have won 5 games.

 

Jax tanked and didn't bother to try and hide it. Why didn't they play Minshew?

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2 hours ago, Big_Slick said:

Jax tanked and didn't bother to try and hide it. Why didn't they play Minshew?

Because he was hurt?

Theyre a bad team.  Worse than the Jets, who never should have been that close to the worst record in the NFL and wouldnt have been if not for the incompetence of Gase and co.

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21 hours ago, Big_Slick said:

Jax was better at tanking while JD let Gase win two meaningless games. It was Gase's farewell eff you to the Jets. He knew he was history.

Yep.  That’s why Gase had Greg Williams fired right after the raiders game.  Williams was in on the tank for Trevor calling that defense on the last play and Gase was trying to win to screw up our chances at Trevor 

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16 hours ago, undertow said:

Be careful any JD or Wilson slander gets you sent to the gulags around here.

JD the greatest GM ever to go 2-14

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On 4/22/2021 at 12:39 PM, HamBilly said:

I am not hating on the kid or saying he is going to be bad, but the Zach Wilson hype is out of control.

Just look at their draft profiles. Their draft profiles seem completely identical with a bit of re-wording. The only difference between the two is that Mahomes was criticized for his unconventional plays that many believed wouldn't translate to the NFL. Those same criticisms are missing from Wilsons Draft profile, and would have been there if Mahomes didn't change the way we look at QBs 3 years ago. There is a good chance many of the Mahomes-like plays Wilson is being touted for now, won't work in the NFL like it does for Mahomes. https://www.nfl.com/prospects/zach-wilson/32005749-4c82-7119-d27e-724ec33f130b and https://www.nfl.com/prospects/patrick-mahomes/32004d41-4840-1939-e4c1-bb89191b4e71 

One of the reasons Mahomes is able to get away with some of his throws is because he has incredible arm strength that is only rivaled by Josh Allen in the last 20 years. Wilson arm is not in the Mahomes/Allen nor is it in the Stafford/Rodgers tier. 

Mahomes got to sit for a year behind an experienced NFL play caller in Andy Reid. He also went to a team with great weapons that made Alex Smith look like a MVP candidate. Mahomes had a HOF caliber TE and one of the most explosive weapons in NFL history who complements Mahomes skillset perfectly. If the Jets draft Wilson, he will have a 1st time OC in the NFL along with some of the worst weapons in the NFL.

The 49ers, who are a much more functional franchise than the Jets, traded up for the 3rd best QB in this draft despite already having a QB who took them to the superbowl. That tells me that there are at least 3 top end QBs in this draft. From all reports it seems like the Jets are locked onto Wilson. Tell me, since when has there ever been such a consensus on the top 2 QBs in a draft. There were even legitimate arguments for RG3 over Luck or Winston/Mariota. Also for those arguments to be even close, RG3 and Mariota had to win the Heisman. Even when Darnold was widely regarded the #1 QB in 2018, there was still a massive debate for the 2nd & 3rd QB off the board.

There are many analysts and keyboard experts who act like Zach Wilson is the 3rd best prospect behind only Luck and Lawrence in the last 10 years. There are some that go as far to say he is better than Lawrence despite being a 1 year wonder who doesn't even have anything close to the track record to be regarded that highly. Justin Fields was projected to be a top 5 pick since 2019. Trey Lance was also believed to go top 10 since 2019. If this all based off 1 year, Mac Jones was much better than Wilson last year. Now you want to tell me this guy Zach Wilson jumped all 3 of them after only 1 good year because he looks like a discount version of Mahomes? Remember, not even Mahomes was thought of this highly coming out and Mahomes had better college numbers for multiple years.

There is no other reason for Wilson to be this highly regarded except for people trying to find the next Mahomes. There are clear flaws in Wilson's game that are being overlooked because he looks a bit like Mahomes did coming out.

 

I don’t think that’s the case at all. Sure every team would love to have Mahomes as QB but teams have always been looking for a QBs who can make the throws and be mobile. This has been going on forever and Wilson apparently is very mobile as well as being a good passer.  Mahomes? Probably not but remember a number of teams passed on Mahomes besides the jets.

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17 hours ago, rangerous said:

but teams have always been looking for a QBs who can make the throws and be mobile. This has been going on forever and Wilson apparently is very mobile as well as being a good passer.  

Literally the same thing was said about Mitch Trubisky.

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Just now, HamBilly said:

Literally the same thing was said about Mitch Trubisky.

I would argue teams are giving up on QBs too early these days due to salary structure and it’s difficult getting a second chance as a starter if a QB there is already under contract for good dollars.

Would it be crazy shocking if Trubisky improved dramatically like say, a  Tannerhill did?

Years ago, they kept the QB through multiple coaching changes and all of a sudden talented guys had the lights go on in a different system.

 

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10 minutes ago, Leftylarry said:

I would argue teams are giving up on QBs too early these days due to salary structure and it’s difficult getting a second chance as a starter if a QB there is already under contract for good dollars.

Would it be crazy shocking if Trubisky improved dramatically like say, a  Tannerhill did?

Years ago, they kept the QB through multiple coaching changes and all of a sudden talented guys had the lights go on in a different system.

 

Totally agree with this .... but equally responsible is the concept that because a players next contract is due they are required to receive a record breaking deal or one commensurate with the top paid player.  Dak is a great example of this.

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1 minute ago, Dunnie said:

Totally agree with this .... but equally responsible is the concept that because your next contract is due you are required to receive a record breaking deal or one commensurate with the top paid player.  Dak is a great example of this.

I think there were other considerations with Dak, other pressures, Dak is a one of.........

Soon teams will be walking from guys like him and resetting salary structure at the position like we did, though I would have kept Sam for one more season and traded down, maybe twice, love the top 60 + picks this draft.

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21 hours ago, maury77 said:

It’s amazing how much leeway bald Idzik gets for accomplishing absolutely nothing.

What would you like us to do? Drag him out of his house and beat the crap out of him? I’m not sure what we’re supposed to say about a dude still building a team. 

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4 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

Well, he drafted a LT and a WR with his first two pick as opposed to the DT or SS we're used to. So there's that.

And the team went 2-14.

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12 minutes ago, maury77 said:

And the team went 2-14.

Yes, and the team had been mismanaged for some time prior to JD. So stop acting as if JD's short time with the Jets exists in a vacuum devoid of the prior bs which included a bare roster. To this point JD hasn't drafted a SS back to back in the first and second round as was done previously. Instead he addressed obvious needs at LT and WR with his first two picks. This is only his second draft with the team. Also, JD has brought in a coaching staff that many people seem to think will succeed. 

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28 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

Yes, and the team had been mismanaged for some time prior to JD. So stop acting as if JD's short time with the Jets exists in a vacuum devoid of the prior bs which included a bare roster. To this point JD hasn't drafted a SS back to back in the first and second round as was done previously. Instead he addressed obvious needs at LT and WR with his first two picks. This is only his second draft with the team. Also, JD has brought in a coaching staff that many people seem to think will succeed. 

So basically your reason for optimism is that fat Idzik isn’t Maccagnan. Ok, you are entitled to be optimistic.

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22 hours ago, maury77 said:

It’s amazing how much leeway bald Idzik gets for accomplishing absolutely nothing.

Idzik had a 8-8 season.  

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54 minutes ago, maury77 said:

So basically your reason for optimism is that fat Idzik isn’t Maccagnan. Ok, you are entitled to be optimistic.

My reason for optimism is that he hasn't shown to be a complete dolt to this point for starters. He has shown that he has an idea of the things that actually matter, such as building up the oline. Has he been perfect, no, but this also seems like the first year that he is in control of everything now and for the foreseeable future. This is the first time in a long time that the GM has been able to get his coach and their QB and have everyone on the same page as opposed to shotgun weddings. He seems to have opened up ownership's eyes to the shortfalls they have been forcing onto the team for a while now such as all the shotgun weddings. 

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6 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

My reason for optimism is that he hasn't shown to be a complete dolt to this point for starters. He has shown that he has an idea of the things that actually matter, such as building up the oline. Has he been perfect, no, but this also seems like the first year that he is in control of everything now and for the foreseeable future. This is the first time in a long time that the GM has been able to get his coach and his their QB and have everyone on the same page as opposed to shotgun weddings. He seems to have opened up ownership's eyes to the shortfalls they have been forcing onto the team for a while now such as all the shotgun weddings. 

I am also optimistic about JD but...

People keep saying the bolded but from what I can tell he's managed the position no better than his predecessors, in many ways worse.

Yes, he took an LT in the first last year because he had to, Otherwise he's done nothing but sign has-beens and back ups from other teams.

Other than his words, his actions show he doesn't take the position very seriously at all.  So far.  Hopefully his actions begin to align with his words.

 

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Just now, FidelioJet said:

People keep saying this but from what I can tell he's managed the position no better than his predecessors, in many ways worse.

Yes, he took an LT in the first last year because he had to, Otherwise he's done nothing but sign has-beens and back ups from other teams.

Other than his words, his actions show he doesn't take the position very seriously at all.  So far.  Hopefully his actions changes.

 

Outside of Becton this OL stinks

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10 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I am also optimistic about JD but...

People keep saying the bolded but from what I can tell he's managed the position no better than his predecessors, in many ways worse.

Yes, he took an LT in the first last year because he had to, Otherwise he's done nothing but sign has-beens and back ups from other teams.

Other than his words, his actions show he doesn't take the position very seriously at all.  So far.  Hopefully his actions begin to align with his words.

 

Completely agree. He needs to do better this year than last year. If he doesn't come out of the draft and post draft FA with a better looking oline I'd be surprised and disappointed leading to less JD slack on my part.

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9 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

Completely agree. He needs to do better this year than last year. If he doesn't come out of the draft and post draft FA with a better looking oline I'd be surprised and disappointed leading to less JD slack on my part.

The question is what does better looking mean?

Last year we had the worst OL in the league and possibly the worst I've ever seen.  As of right now, it has not been upgraded at all.  

If feels like at best we're coming away with one position upgraded with a rookie at either 23 or 34.  Is that enough?

I don't know, but for me that would still be quite concerning.  Especially with a new QB after they just destroyed the last one.

I think he has to take OL at 23 or 34 and then trade for a solid starter from somewhere else.  Adding a rookie guard just isn't going to be enough.

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

The question is what does better looking mean?

Last year we had the worst OL in the league and possibly the worst I've ever seen.  As of right now, it has not been upgraded at all.  

If feels like at best we're coming away with one position upgraded with a rookie at either 23 or 34.  Is that enough?

I don't know, but for me that would still be quite concerning.  Especially with a new QB after they just destroyed the last one.

I think he has to take OL at 23 or 34 and then trade for a solid starter from somewhere else.  Adding a rookie guard just isn't going to be enough.

It's a good question. I'd definitely like to see at least one day one starter out of the draft. Depending on how this draft goes, I would love to see a C and T drafted high allowing the current C to switch to G and kicking Fant to the swing T backup role or G, you may or may not go after the inevitable oline cuts that could be an upgrade for a year or two. 

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