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My kids went to sleep and then I got stoned and now I'm eating spaghetti. That's all I can contribute. But I would like some new friends if anybody's interested? It's actually chicken parmesan and spaghetti. It's like heaven

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KC has fixed their oline in one year essentially. The jets have drafted a LT in about a 10 year span. Douglas better show up big time in this draft.

How many years now have the various Jet GMs stated that we need to build our O line?  That right there is a friggin' how to clinic.

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14 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

That's been going on for months

McCagnan drafts 3 oline in 5 years.  Douglas adds a good rookie in Bection (who missed time) and sweet F all else.

the oline stinks for the most part and it is the 23 year old QBs fault.  FFS the center could not even snap the ball to him in year one.

I swear this forum is chock full of McCagnan mentality.  The oline is an inconvenience, I mean do we really have to spend one of our 3rd rounders on a guard?  Can;t we get one later on?

F'ck me

That along with a JD cult that's formed.....people will fall all over themselves to try and explain away any failures or miscalculations.  " The line was really good it was Darnold's fault he held onto the ball to long".  It's almost making me root for Wilson to bust and Darnold to turn into Joe Montana. lol

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47 minutes ago, undertow said:

You realize KC got a 2nd and 6th back with Brown right?  They basically gave up the 31st...a better comp would be would you give up the 34th for a pro bowl tackle that's 24.  Of course you would.

i would do it, hell i want to trade up from 23, but this board doesnt want to give up draft picks for nothing. they want to keep trading back to get more.

 

47 minutes ago, undertow said:

You can't make this sh*t up...now we are blaming Darnold for our line sucking. lol

just check the stats. Josh Allen was blitzed 244 times in 16 games. that 15.25 per gm. Russ Wilson 206 times for a 12.8 avg. sam was blitzed 143 times in 12 gms  for a 11.9 avg.

hurries, hits, pressures. sam was not the worst. Wilson, Herbert, Cousins, all guys who had a way better season than sam were under distress more than sam.

i know, i watch all our games too. how could anybody have a worst OL than us?. but stats dont lie. 

 

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5 minutes ago, undertow said:

That along with a JD cult that's formed.....people will fall all over themselves to try and explain away any failures or miscalculations.  " The line was really good it was Darnold's fault he held onto the ball to long".  It's almost making me root for Wilson to bust and Darnold to turn into Joe Montana. lol

i think your already there with your panthers avatar. 

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9 hours ago, nycdan said:

Chiefs have really attacked their OLine problem.

Orlando Brown to KC for #31 plus more picks going both ways.  

 

Wait, what?  I keep reading on this message board that you can get good OL on day 2.....I'm so confused :(  Clearly some of our posters know more than one of the best GMs in the game.  

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18 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

Wait, what?  I keep reading on this message board that you can get good OL on day 2.....I'm so confused :(  Clearly some of our posters know more than one of the best GMs in the game.  

you can. Thuney and Brown were 3rd rd picks. 

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12 hours ago, nycdan said:

Yeah, because who's going to beat KC in the AFC this year? LOL.  

Thuney, Long, now Brown.  Damn.

JD better know what he is doing because that's the way to protect your young QB.

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8 hours ago, doitny said:

i would do it, hell i want to trade up from 23, but this board doesnt want to give up draft picks for nothing. they want to keep trading back to get more.

 

just check the stats. Josh Allen was blitzed 244 times in 16 games. that 15.25 per gm. Russ Wilson 206 times for a 12.8 avg. sam was blitzed 143 times in 12 gms  for a 11.9 avg.

hurries, hits, pressures. sam was not the worst. Wilson, Herbert, Cousins, all guys who had a way better season than sam were under distress more than sam.

i know, i watch all our games too. how could anybody have a worst OL than us?. but stats dont lie. 

 

This is not accurate.

Sam wasnt blitzed because there wasnt a single playmaker on this team that an opposing defense had to worry about, let alone scheme to stop.  The offense was beyond predictable and teams could rush 4 and stop us.  Thats why he wasnt blitzed as often.  

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15 hours ago, undertow said:

Fair enough...the point really is the handing of the line so far has been piss poor and trading for a 24 year old pro bowl lineman isn't a stupid move it's brilliant....they basically just gave up a late one.

KC is in a little different position than the Jets. This is the last year before Mahomes' mega-extension hits the books. He only counts $7.4M against the cap this year. They're maximizing that right now to get themselves into the Super Bowl a third straight year, and that's exactly what they should be doing. Brown is in his contract year. He only counts $5.2M against this year's cap but will probably be an $18M/year guy next year. They are all-in for this season, and they'll figure out next year next year. 

Joe Douglas is trying to get there thru the draft. That means he wants players on rookie contracts, not trading late firsts away for guys who'll cost them $18M/year next season. I get that it's frustrating to the impatient, OL-centric fans here on JN, but lets get that low cost foundation in place before we make major need purchases like that. 

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How come he isn't a value picker like JD. That team will have serious problems spending all this money on talent. They should be picking up bottom of the barrel garbage and turn them into studs. That franchise will be in trouble in the upcoming years with all the overspending and giving away draft picks

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11 hours ago, undertow said:

It was ranked 29th by PFF....don't think a rookie guard brings that up to average unless Mcgovern has a bounce back year and they actually make the right pick.  Guess I'm just a little more worried about destroying another rookie QBs career then getting a pass rusher or DT but that's just me

Yeah I'm aware of the ranking and everything, and it's not going to be apples and apples this year and last year. A number of significant things are changing.

  • all 5 players aren't playing together for the first time
  • all 5 players aren't going to be new to each other for the first time with limited camp and with no preseason action and a good amount of distancing and other covid limitations
  • the newer "friendly" system isn't going to rely upon such a disproportionate percentage of deeper routes
  • Gase (comparatively) never threw to his backs, and only rarely to his TE(s), let alone by design. What do you think that does to relative OL rankings when others have to only hold their blocks for 1.5 seconds on 40% of their snaps?
  • Then on top of all that you can factor in injuries to WRs (while Gase still force-fed deeper routes), OL injuries (including to its only major talent)
  • Not exactly the most creative gameplanning
  • Gase insisting on giving start after start to slow has-been backs, whether Bell initially or Gore down the stretch
  • And a QB with let's call it questionable pocket presence & whatever going on upstairs where he doesn't throw to open receivers directly in his LOS (again, asking his line to hold their blocks for that much longer). No one else noticed the sack percentage went up like 75% when Darnold was QB instead of Flacco? And Flacco isn't exactly elusive himself. 
  • Then as things started to get better, replacing a starter with a street FA cut from the Vikings, whose coaches felt he was demonstrably worse than Dakota Dozier (and less worthy of a roster spot than the worst of Dozier's other backups).

No one insists this will be a top 5 type OL, but it's also ludicrous to insist that any of the above are 100% meaningless, let alone all of it compounded. Familiarity and continuity is important for a zb line, and the Jets entered the season with less of it than all other 31 teams' lines.

It took a lot of work to make that line worse than the personnel that populated it.

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10 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Average at best which is simply not good enough.

We'll see. I don't think it'll be anywhere near as bad as last year's.

I do think many people have an overestimated idea of how good each individual lineman is on other OLs. Most of them have at least 2 (if not 3) below-average starters, including KC.

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1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

We'll see. I don't think it'll be anywhere near as bad as last year's.

I do think many people have an overestimated idea of how good each individual lineman is on other OLs. Most of them have at least 2 (if not 3) below-average starters, including KC.

KC Just added a pro bowl tackle and center within a span of a month or so.  The Jets have one pro bowl possible LT but even that is wait and see, Becton has to play a full year, the rest of our line is well below average to suck.

Good enough to get by or , oh ain;t that awful is not good enough imo.  If you want to win in this league a really good oline helps a hell of a lot.

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When people say stuff like the Jets can't afford a certain player or so and so doesn't deserve long term money or they are going to be in cap hell, remember the day the chiefs traded for Orlando brown 

The cap is an illusion 

Teams that want to get around it, do so, simply by giving more money to their stars 

The Jets stay 10 - 20 mil under the cap and trade cj mosely to get above the floor while teams like KC are spending 50 - 60 mil above the cap and manipulate the cap to make it seem like less. 

That's the difference between a winning program and a program that really couldn't give 2 shots 

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7 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

KC Just added a pro bowl tackle and center within a span of a month or so.  The Jets have one pro bowl possible LT but even that is wait and see, Becton has to play a full year, the rest of our line is well below average to suck.

Good enough to get by or , oh ain;t that awful is not good enough imo.  If you want to win in this league a really good oline helps a hell of a lot.

yeah but the draft isn't the only way. i did so research last night and found this. all last year starters..

Atlanta had 5 1st rd picks on there line. 3 they drafted, 2 they signed. and they went 4-12. interestingly i also found that there whole offense were 1st rd picks except there FB and TE. and they were 7-9 the year before.

NO, Ind both had 3 drafted..... ok their pretty good teams..  SF had 3, but only drafted 1

Pitts, Det both drafted 2..... probably one of the best and worst franchises...

Ari, Mia, Hou, Clev, Minn, Giants. all had 2, but only one was drafted by them. one was not

Seattle had 2 but didn't draft any of them..

Jets, NE, , CIN, , KC, LV, DEN, WASH, DALLAS, PHILA, and TB all had one drafted. mixed bag. some SB teams, playoff teams, and then the Jets and Cin.

Balt, Chicago, and the Chargers all had one that they did not draft.

this tells you that there is no sure way to fix your line.

im sure some of you want to be like Atlanta and have a line with all #1 picks. not working out too well for them.

yeah NO and Ind have been good teams, but the best teams like NE, TB and KC only had one. they used there draft resources in other areas. Balt didnt even draft theres, and traded there best guy who was drafted in the 3rd rd.

im not going to cry if we pick OL at 23, but if JD is good he can find good ones in rds 2-3. 

i just feel that most of the good teams dont waste much 1st rd picks on the OL. 

and im just curious, to ALL the guys who want OL with 23 and even 34, what happens next year? will you still be here asking for another one with our 2 1st rd picks in 2022? 

i just think we have too many holes to use too many #1 picks on the line. 

 

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4 hours ago, Beerfish said:

KC Just added a pro bowl tackle and center within a span of a month or so.  The Jets have one pro bowl possible LT but even that is wait and see, Becton has to play a full year, the rest of our line is well below average to suck.

Good enough to get by or , oh ain;t that awful is not good enough imo.  If you want to win in this league a really good oline helps a hell of a lot.

No one suggests a poorer OL is superior to a better one. Meanwhile the Chiefs also aren't in the Jets' position elsewhere. Further, they managed to get by with "ain't that awful" to the tune of 12 straight wins this past year.

The OL doesn't make a team. No doubt it hides some flaws, but for all the Brick & Mangold stuff the Jets weren't sniffing at anything without Revis and more on defense; never mind that OL was hardly just Brick & Mangold (plus while he had a few outstanding seasons, the former's overall career was pretty overrated by Jets fans & the fable grows more fantastic as time goes on; on balance he was a pretty good tackle - a few times had seasons better than pretty good, but at least or more often was worse than that - but with great injury avoidance). 

Anyway I'm not opposed to taking an OLman at 23. I don't think there's a 1 in 100 chance that the Chiefs make a trade for Brown if Fisher is still their LT - and highly doubtful if it was Becton - all the same. They are a SB contender right now and were a team without a LT (or even a sure-starting RT so far as I can tell); they're simply in a different position than the Jets. Until a day ago their penciled-in LT was a 3rd rounder who's seen as much action since college as Cam Clark. Further, the Jets were never in contention for Thuney, who wasn't choosing the Jets over the Chiefs anyway.

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1 hour ago, doitny said:

yeah NO and Ind have been good teams, but the best teams like NE, TB and KC only had one. they used there draft resources in other areas. Balt didnt even draft theres, and traded there best guy who was drafted in the 3rd rd.

 

 

KC just got destroyed due to a sub par oline and with the best Qb in the league and all the weapons in the world.  They went out and AGGRESSIVELY fixed it.

The pats had tom brady and an oline that was allowed to hold for 15 years.

TB sucked until they got brady and also drafted Wirfs.

Look at the post I made detailing all of our non high oline draft picks over the years, almost all utter fails to jags then look at the really good olineman we have had,.... drafted high.

The Jets drafted D'Brick at 6 and Mangold at 30, universally thought of as the best modern day jets draft.

A great oline makes a QB, RBs and all weapons vastly  better.  We should be aspiring to a great oline not a mediocre one.

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21 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No one suggests a poorer OL is superior to a better one. Meanwhile the Chiefs also aren't in the Jets' position elsewhere. Further, they managed to get by with "ain't that awful" to the tune of 12 straight wins this past year.

The OL doesn't make a team. No doubt it hides some flaws, but for all the Brick & Mangold stuff the Jets weren't sniffing at anything without Revis and more on defense; never mind that OL was hardly just Brick & Mangold (never mind that, while he had a few outstanding seasons, the former's overall career was pretty overrated by Jets fans & the fable grows more fantastic as time goes on; he was very good, but on balance he was a pretty good tackle - a few times had seasons better than pretty good, but at least or more often was worse than that - with great injury avoidance). 

Anyway I'm not opposed to taking an OLman at 23. I don't think there's a 1 in 100 chance that the Chiefs make a trade for Brown if Fisher is still their LT - and highly doubtful if it was Becton - all the same. They are a SB contender right now and were a team without a LT (or even a sure-starting RT so far as I can tell); they're simply in a different position than the Jets. Until a day ago their penciled-in LT was a 3rd rounder who's seen as much action since college as Cam Clark. Further, the Jets were never in contention for Thuney, who wasn't choosing the Jets over the Chiefs anyway.

No what you are suggesting is that oline is not a priory position group.  You don;t want a terrible oline but ala McCagnan thinking you really are not prepared to get a good one. 

Your response to Mangold and D'Brick is Revis?  Come on man.

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26 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

No what you are suggesting is that oline is not a priory position group.  You don;t want a terrible oline but ala McCagnan thinking you really are not prepared to get a good one. 

Your response to Mangold and D'Brick is Revis?  Come on man.

No, I'm not suggesting that. You're interpreting it that way is all. 

Maccagnan thinking lol. C'mon. The OL players I've wanted Douglas to sign this year & last year (that he didn't), plus advocating for a tackle at 11 last year, plus advocating for another OL pick by #34, is Maccagnan thinking.

If you're just going to troll me we don't need to do this.

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14 hours ago, LIJetsFan said:

Wait, what?  I keep reading on this message board that you can get good OL on day 2.....I'm so confused :(  Clearly some of our posters know more than one of the best GMs in the game.  

I think few realized who the Chiefs' starting tackles were before this trade. Fisher and Schwartz are FAs; they're not on KC's roster anymore.

At tackle, the Chiefs were looking at starting:

  • Niang: a 2020 late 3rd rounder who went on IR in August
  • 32 yr old journeyman Mike Remmers, fresh off getting his s*** pushed in in the SB

I'd have been thrilled if the Jets signed Thuney, but it seems the players get to choose where they sign. As a small-town Ohio native, who'd just endured his first-ever season where he wasn't on a team that won 12-14 games or a SB (or both) in New England, tell me as a UFA that you'd really sign with the Jets after the Chiefs offered you the richest contract ever given to an interior OLman (even if the Jets had slightly outbid KC). You know you wouldn't. ;)  

Brown is terrific, no doubt, but at the time of this trade the Jets had two starting tackles better and more accomplished than any tackle on KC's roster. 

This is more of a signal that Reid didn't want to gamble on Fisher's full + timely recovery. Otherwise it's extremely unlikely they make this trade, seeing how Brown's already made public his displeasure with the idea of moving back to RT. Now Brown gets to start at LT and at RT they can have a competition between Niang & Remmers rather than being forced into starting both no matter how bad one of them might be.

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4 hours ago, bitonti said:

When people say stuff like the Jets can't afford a certain player or so and so doesn't deserve long term money or they are going to be in cap hell, remember the day the chiefs traded for Orlando brown 

The cap is an illusion 

Teams that want to get around it, do so, simply by giving more money to their stars 

The Jets stay 10 - 20 mil under the cap and trade cj mosely to get above the floor while teams like KC are spending 50 - 60 mil above the cap and manipulate the cap to make it seem like less. 

That's the difference between a winning program and a program that really couldn't give 2 shots 

Every year the Jets win the capology Super Bowl

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2 hours ago, Beerfish said:

KC just got destroyed due to a sub par oline and with the best Qb in the league and all the weapons in the world.  They went out and AGGRESSIVELY fixed it.

The pats had tom brady and an oline that was allowed to hold for 15 years.

TB sucked until they got brady and also drafted Wirfs.

Look at the post I made detailing all of our non high oline draft picks over the years, almost all utter fails to jags then look at the really good olineman we have had,.... drafted high.

The Jets drafted D'Brick at 6 and Mangold at 30, universally thought of as the best modern day jets draft.

A great oline makes a QB, RBs and all weapons vastly  better.  We should be aspiring to a great oline not a mediocre one.

Yep.  Watch Sewell go to the Bengals and make Burrow look real good.  Or even worse go to the dolphins at 6

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11 hours ago, slats said:

KC is in a little different position than the Jets. This is the last year before Mahomes' mega-extension hits the books. He only counts $7.4M against the cap this year. They're maximizing that right now to get themselves into the Super Bowl a third straight year, and that's exactly what they should be doing. Brown is in his contract year. He only counts $5.2M against this year's cap but will probably be an $18M/year guy next year. They are all-in for this season, and they'll figure out next year next year. 

Joe Douglas is trying to get there thru the draft. That means he wants players on rookie contracts, not trading late firsts away for guys who'll cost them $18M/year next season. I get that it's frustrating to the impatient, OL-centric fans here on JN, but lets get that low cost foundation in place before we make major need purchases like that. 

Good post.....helps clarify thing that weren't obvious to me.

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9 hours ago, bitonti said:

When people say stuff like the Jets can't afford a certain player or so and so doesn't deserve long term money or they are going to be in cap hell, remember the day the chiefs traded for Orlando brown 

The cap is an illusion 

Teams that want to get around it, do so, simply by giving more money to their stars 

The Jets stay 10 - 20 mil under the cap and trade cj mosely to get above the floor while teams like KC are spending 50 - 60 mil above the cap and manipulate the cap to make it seem like less. 

That's the difference between a winning program and a program that really couldn't give 2 shots 

I usually don't agree with much of what you post here but this one seems worthwhile :)

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On 4/23/2021 at 11:11 PM, undertow said:

That along with a JD cult that's formed.....people will fall all over themselves to try and explain away any failures or miscalculations.  " The line was really good it was Darnold's fault he held onto the ball to long".  It's almost making me root for Wilson to bust and Darnold to turn into Joe Montana. lol

I'm not in JDs cult.  It think he did ok in his 1st draft.   He has had 1 first round draft pick thus far, he spent it on o line.

By Friday night we'll know more.   If he spends a 2nd first rounder or the 24 on o line, I will know he is prioritizing the line.  If not, then he isn't.

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19 hours ago, Beerfish said:

KC just got destroyed due to a sub par oline and with the best Qb in the league and all the weapons in the world.  They went out and AGGRESSIVELY fixed it.

The pats had tom brady and an oline that was allowed to hold for 15 years.

TB sucked until they got brady and also drafted Wirfs.

Look at the post I made detailing all of our non high oline draft picks over the years, almost all utter fails to jags then look at the really good olineman we have had,.... drafted high.

The Jets drafted D'Brick at 6 and Mangold at 30, universally thought of as the best modern day jets draft.

A great oline makes a QB, RBs and all weapons vastly  better.  We should be aspiring to a great oline not a mediocre one.

I voted this post of the week. I wish we had a post of the decade emoji.😁

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17 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Every year the Jets win the capology Super Bowl

That’s mostly because they can’t draft well and have no one to pay.  Therefore have been in a rebuild for a decade.  
 

IMO, this was the off-season to spend.  I guess our GM thought otherwise.  

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For the Chiefs’ timetable, which is to compete for the SB every year, they were not getting a LT at 31.  So Orlando Brown is a great move for cheap money this year which he has to play for.  He can then be franchised.  

Radusz or Brown at 31 was not going to get them there this year but could have been better for the money in the out years.  

One of the smaller school Ts could be the better play for the Jets at 34, but my guess is that they try to see who drops at 66.

Unless someone drops to 23 that is really no mans land.  The Jets have so many holes.  I can see JD trying to trade out of there.  

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