Chris Simms mock has Justin Fields going to TB at #32

[choon328]

13 minutes ago, Leftylarry said:

I think Sims crazy negatives on Fields are over the top.

Fields was terrific in 2019.

Big ten cancelled the season in 2020, shutdown all football activities .

Then after the Sec played every week and made the politically motivated Big Ten look bad they brought back the season, starting OCT 24 but  with very strict Covid practice protocols.

When Bama beat an injured Fields in the championship game they finished 13-0, Ohio State played 6 regular season games, 2 with many players missing but they didn’t cancel because they needed 6 games to remain eligible.

it was a ridiculous season and still Fields , personally destroyed Trevor Lawrence and Clemson in the semi final game.

Sims is being ridiculous.

if he said he liked the top 2 better and thought Lance had more future upside than Fields fine but a guy who went 20-2,  at 6’2+ and 228 lbs running 4.4 and using that speed on the field to extend plays and run for first downs , completing 70% of his throws throwing deep with a canon for an arm  is suddenly a bad prospect, after playing at least good if not great in this crazy Covid year , is trying to make a point, not be a scout.

Scouts don't care about stats. You can get away with a 1 read offense, bad mechanics and questionable decision making when guys are running wide open in 85% of the games you're playing. You can't do the in the nfl.  Great in college has very little correlation to how good you'll be as a pro, especially at QB. People need to stop using that as their prime example of why guys should be drafted high. There is so much more to it then that. 

[choon328]

5 minutes ago, Leftylarry said:

I’m a huge Wisconsin fan and therefore a big ten fan, I saw Fields in person in 2019 and on the tube at least 8-10 times and think he’s a great prospect, the epilepsy thing threw me for a loop though, it can be an issue, the meds are strong but if he can master that, I think he moves in the pocket, creates time and sees the field at a very high level, runs great and throws with velo and accuracy.

I add the stats because they support what my eyes told me.

You're eyes are lying to you then. He has very poor mechanics at times and runs a 1 read offense. There is a lot to be concerned about

[FidelioJet]

3 minutes ago, Leftylarry said:

I’m a huge Wisconsin fan and therefore a big ten fan, I saw Fields in person in 2019 and on the tube at least 8-10 times and think he’s a great prospect, the epilepsy thing threw me for a loop though, it can be an issue, the meds are strong but if he can master that, I think he moves in the pocket, creates time and sees the field at a very high level, runs great and throws with velo and accuracy.

I add the stats because they support what my eyes told me.

I guess I'll ask the question.

If he does drop - say out of the top 10 (which I doubt) but if he does...then Why?

1) NFL GM's just didn't watch him on Saturdays like you did?

2) There's something on his tape or mental make-up that's scaring off teams?

3) Racism?

4) Epilepsy?

What is the more likely scenario of all of these?

[Charlie Brown]

5 hours ago, JetPotato said:

I doubt he slides that much. If he does... oh boy. It's going to be not pretty.

Fields is WAAAAAAYYY BETTER than folks are saying....

It is nuts that a guy who has played against the best competition (based on defenses played) in the country and who is the more accurate passer at most levels in the country is now considered less of a prospect than say  a -------------------------Mark Sanchez!

This is NUTS!!!!

[AlexVanDyke]

1 hour ago, undertow said:

Chris Simms is clearly racist- every ESPN personality. 

Lol this is so true.  ESPN is making a narrative about this and it’s comical.  Stephen a is like “ how can he be #2 all year and now he drops”? I’m like umm, film analysis maybe? I mean the stupidity crimping from ESPN is off the charts.  

[Integrity28]

3 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

What f*cking business are you working in? 

Seriously. 

The best people get stepped over, because they’re heads-down delivering... while the useless people climb over them.

[Charlie Brown]

8 hours ago, GreenReaper said:

No way should this happen.  It's just crazy he falls that far.   At the 16:30 mark...

Is it the Ohio State Program?  Throwing motion and mechanics?   Something concerning his reputation and character?  All or some of the above?  Do you have any justification why all the rest of the top 5 are gone and he falls this far?  I don't.  

Download video

Download video

 

Love Chris Simms Love him and his analysis but he ISN'T GOD!!!

And he ISN'T right all of the time!

See here his thought on Adam Gase for example: start at the 2:30 mark......

 

 

[choon328]

57 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

You might have just saved me a bunch of money.  Was going to bet Fields going #3 - odds are pretty good, but I didn't know he was close with Kyle Shanahan.  

https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/01/16/kyle-shanahan-and-chris-simms-have-tattoos-of-each-others-initials/

 

This is from 2017. They have each other's initials tattooed on their bodies lol.  I'd say they're close. 

[choon328]

10 minutes ago, AlexVanDyke said:

Lol this is so true.  ESPN is making a narrative about this and it’s comical.  Stephen a is like “ how can he be #2 all year and now he drops”? I’m like umm, film analysis maybe? I mean the stupidity crimping from ESPN is off the charts.  

Also, nfl scouts weren't allowed to attend practices this year and that is literally why teams are absolutely terrified of Rounds 4-7 this year. 90% of scouting happens at practices, not games. Most people don't realize that. 

[Sperm Edwards]

4 hours ago, Warfish said:

That is a Geno Smith-like fall.

or Bridgewater + Manziel.

 

 

[Leftylarry]

30 minutes ago, choon328 said:

You're eyes are lying to you then. He has very poor mechanics at times and runs a 1 read offense. There is a lot to be concerned about

We agree to disagree , let’s talk again about him in three seasons.

when he’s great, I will say, it was obvious and you will say his new OC and system fixed him. ha ha.

This is still better than working.

[FidelioJet]

34 minutes ago, AlexVanDyke said:

Lol this is so true.  ESPN is making a narrative about this and it’s comical.  Stephen a is like “ how can he be #2 all year and now he drops”? I’m like umm, film analysis maybe? I mean the stupidity crimping from ESPN is off the charts.  

It would be comical if it wasn't so irresponsible.  There are serious consequences to calling people and organization racist.  That type of thing shouldn't be thrown around lightly.

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

that moron has easily been the best QB talent evaluator by a large margin. Haskins threw 50 td's in that program which does not translate very well to the NFL that along with some of the flaws in Fields game is exactly why he's dropping. Fields can prove them all wrong when he gets to the NFL if he has what it takes

That moron doesnt evaluate sh*t. He doesnt make decisions.  He says sh*t so people like you listen but he makes no predictions and hedges everythign.  

Wilson is the best but gun to head, I'd take Lawrence.

Mahomes is the most intriguing but I'd take Trubisky.

He's a full of sh*t a shock jock.  If anyone game a **** about what Chris Simms thought, he wouldnt be a podcast/blogger dweeb.  Have you actually seen his critique of Fields?  His "evaluation" contains hard hitting sh*t like; he does things and stuff at times and these things and stuff at times gives me pause.  Nothing specific.  He's a hack.  

lmfao and you eat it up like it's fact.  He doesnt know sh*t.  We'll see if the Fields really falls like he's claiming.  I highly doubt it.  This is a stupid mock by a stupid moron we're talking about here. 

[Charlie Brown]

4 hours ago, HighPitch said:

man ive never seen a qb prospect beaten down like fields wtf?

Thank you @HighPitch

Fields Facts Not Opinions:

1. Fields had a higher number of pass attempts beyond his first read (19.69%) than any of the other top QB prospects. What’s more, Fields’ 69% completion rate on such attempts was way better than Lawrence’s 43.4%.

2. More data to back up Fields’ ability to move through progressions and make quality plays from Pro Football Focus:

PFF Grade on throws past 1st read since 2019: (min. 60 attempts)

1st - Justin Fields - 90.6

2nd - Zach Wilson - 90.1

3rd - Trey Lance - 87.2

7th - Trevor Lawrence - 78.6

8th - Mac Jones - 75.7

3. Yes, because of Fields’ borderline photographic memory, there’s reason to believe he’ll have little trouble picking up an NFL playbook. How do we know this? Athletic Aptitude tests that is how…

Indeed, while top prospects of recent years and legitimate NFL superstars in Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen scored high, Fields blew them both away and scored the highest in the test’s history among more than 6,500 pro athletes.

4. Finally, It is important to put Fields’ season into context here. Fields faced the toughest schedule of all CFB defenses by SP+’s metrics, including his four final games (Indiana, Northwestern, Clemson, Alabama) against top-15 defenses.

And he produced these results for down field passing mentioned above..

	Attempt Share	Completion %	Accuracy	Placement
Justin Fields	19.09%	69.05%	.881	.724
Trevor Lawrence	16.99%	43.40%	.842	.709
Trey Lance	16.61%	64.71%	.885	.516
Kellen Mond	16.55%	52.08%	.617	.498
Sam Ehlinger	14.37%	47.13%	.601	.442
Zach Wilson	14.20%	59.57%	.851	.686
Kyle Trask	13.95%	40.68%	.792	.462
Davis Mills	12.18%	56.76%	.764	.519
Jamie Newman	10.76%	38.24%	.687	.473
Mac Jones	9.72%	31.58%	.526	.197

Oh one more thing..

Pro Football Focus found that Fields was the most accurate quarterback in college football when throwing past his first read. The minimum threshold for this metric was 60 passing attempts. Again not only did Fields make it past his first read, he was more accurate than anyone else when he did.

So don’t draft Fields it is ok, but let’s stop saying Fields isn’t one of the best QBs in this class…

 

 

[Leftylarry]

47 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I guess I'll ask the question.

If he does drop - say out of the top 10 (which I doubt) but if he does...then Why?

1) NFL GM's just didn't watch him on Saturdays like you did?

2) There's something on his tape or mental make-up that's scaring off teams?

3) Racism?

4) Epilepsy?

What is the more likely scenario of all of these?

I think Racism is the least possibility, it’s a mostly Black league with many Black QBs, that’s 20 years ago where that might have been part of the process, long over.

secondly, you don’t know what teams think about Fields, only what rumors are out there, with a decision like this, no GM is worried about race, just his job and career.

[Smashmouth]

11 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

That moron doesnt evaluate sh*t. He doesnt make decisions.  He says sh*t so people like you listen but he makes no predictions and hedges everythign.  

Wilson is the best but gun to head, I'd take Lawrence.

Mahomes is the most intriguing but I'd take Trubisky.

He's a full of sh*t a shock jock.  If anyone game a **** about what Chris Simms thought, he wouldnt be a podcast/blogger dweeb.  Have you actually seen his critique of Fields?  His "evaluation" contains hard hitting sh*t like; he does things and stuff at times and these things and stuff at times gives me pause.  Nothing specific.  He's a hack.  

lmfao and you eat it up like it's fact.  He doesnt know sh*t.  We'll see if the Fields really falls like he's claiming.  I highly doubt it.  This is a stupid mock by a stupid moron we're talking about here. 

LMFAO sorry but I don't eat it up like its fact at all, I simply agree with his assessment over JIF's and go figure he actually played the position and evaluates these players for a living.  FWIW I don't care about his Mock at all because over all I don't agree with most of it but I do agree on the QB situation and how they are ranked and from my standpoint Fields wont make it past the 15th selection so that's much different than Simms is predicting.

I see flaws in Fields game, that does not mean they can't be corrected and that does not mean I'm predicting he won't be successful but most of the time those things are not easy to correct like in the case of Sam Darnold which I pointed out before we drafted him his mechanics were horrid as was his pocket presence and turnovers. Not sure WTF people were thinking rating him so high but it happens because they see some flashy play and think oh wow look at that throw. How many times did we say oh wow look at that great decision by Sam ? Almost never.

One of the few who played through his flaws and actually changed things was Allen and even he at times can prove to be a bit reckless with the football. Field's IMHO is a one read QB and it seems that's the way the OSU offense is designed and why QB's from that system are not highly regarded, shame Fields has to be tied to that but he is. Hate to hold that against him but he has a lot to prove on the NFL level and honestly I hope the kid does but it wont be easy.

At any given time there are about 5 people on the planet who can play the QB position at an elite level and it all comes down to what's in their head and how they process information NOT their athletic ability this has been proven over and over and will not change.

[FidelioJet]

29 minutes ago, Leftylarry said:

I think Racism is the least possibility, it’s a mostly Black league with many Black QBs, that’s 20 years ago where that might have been part of the process, long over.

secondly, you don’t know what teams think about Fields, only what rumors are out there, with a decision like this, no GM is worried about race, just his job and career.

I agree with all of this.

The key is really we really don't know what's going to happen.  He can go 3 to the 9ers and this was all for naught.

He can drop to the late first and it'll be clear there's something wrong with his tape or something in the Zooms...

He can be the 4th QB off the board but going in the top 5 and then you'll have questions as to why he went behind Wilson and Jones.

 

We'll know a lot more Thursday night/Friday morning.

[JustInFudge]

8 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

LMFAO sorry but I don't eat it up like its fact at all, I simply agree with his assessment over JIF's and go figure he actually played the position and evaluates these players for a living.  FWIW I don't care about his Mock at all because over all I don't agree with most of it but I do agree on the QB situation and how they are ranked and from my standpoint Fields wont make it past the 15th selection so that's much different than Simms is predicting.

I see flaws in Fields game, that does not mean they can't be corrected and that does not mean I'm predicting he won't be successful but most of the time those things are not easy to correct like in the case of Sam Darnold which I pointed out before we drafted him his mechanics were horrid as was his pocket presence and turnovers. Not sure WTF people were thinking rating him so high but it happens because they see some flashy play and think oh wow look at that throw. How many times did we say oh wow look at that great decision by Sam ? Almost never.

One of the few who played through his flaws and actually changed things was Allen and even he at times can prove to be a bit reckless with the football. Field's IMHO is a one read QB and it seems that's the way the OSU offense is designed and why QB's from that system are not highly regarded, shame Fields has to be tied to that but he is. Hate to hold that against him but he has a lot to prove on the NFL level and honestly I hope the kid does but it wont be easy.

At any given time there are about 5 people on the planet who can play the QB position at an elite level and it all comes down to what's in their head and how they process information NOT their athletic ability this has been proven over and over and will not change.

You called him the best evaluator, so I assumed you actually gave this cretin respect. Sorry if I'm not falling at the feet of Chris Simms.

As far as your take on Fields, I couldnt disagree more and that's cool.  Party on.

 

 

[Integrity28]

Reality: 30 teams would be happy to draft Fields.

Also reality: fans are dumb brains and believe misinformation.

Also also reality: Jets are the only team dumber than fans. Welcome to NY, Mary Lou Zachapoono.

[Integrity28]

36 minutes ago, Leftylarry said:

I think Racism is the least possibility, it’s a mostly Black league with many Black QBs, that’s 20 years ago where that might have been part of the process, long over.

secondly, you don’t know what teams think about Fields, only what rumors are out there, with a decision like this, no GM is worried about race, just his job and career.

1. Scouts, coaches and owners are mostly white.

2. Folks don’t have to be decidedly “racist” in order to have unconscious bias about race influence judgement and double-standards.

3. Year after year black QBs only get compared to black QBs and measured against stereotypes around running vs. throwing. That is race-driven unconscious bias in most cases.

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, choon328 said:

You're eyes are lying to you then. He has very poor mechanics at times and runs a 1 read offense. There is a lot to be concerned about

Grade on throws past 1st read since 2019: (min. 60 attempts) 1st - Justin Fields - 90.6 2nd - Zach Wilson - 90.1 3rd - Trey Lance - 87.2 ... 7th - Trevor Lawrence - 78.6 8th - Mac Jones - 75.7

[AlexVanDyke]

59 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

It would be comical if it wasn't so irresponsible.  There are serious consequences to calling people and organization racist.  That type of thing shouldn't be thrown around lightly.

I agree.  I don’t think they outright accuse it.  They imply it.  I almost feel lthe bulk of their analysts areputting fields at 2 out if pressure and guilt.  Some like Ryan Clark are happy the pitiful Jets like Wilson so his guy fields can go to a good team (although looks like sf won’t bite either). It’s been non stop.  It’s pathetic 

[FidelioJet]

2 minutes ago, AlexVanDyke said:

I agree.  I don’t think they outright accuse it.  They imply it.  I almost feel lthe bulk of their analysts areputting fields at 2 out if pressure and guilt.  Some like Ryan Clark are happy the pitiful Jets like Wilson so his guy fields can go to a good team (although looks like sf won’t bite either). It’s been non stop.  It’s pathetic 

Stephen A. Smith outright accuses it.

[FidelioJet]

Wow - Justin Fields going to SF is now +650 on FanDuel.

Mac Jones -340

Trey Lance +300 

 

Fields Over/Under draft position is 8.5

 

[Raideraholic]

Whose going to trust Chris Simms when he can’t remember the play called.

 

[RogerVick1980]

1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

That moron doesnt evaluate sh*t. He doesnt make decisions.  He says sh*t so people like you listen but he makes no predictions and hedges everythign.  

Wilson is the best but gun to head, I'd take Lawrence.

Mahomes is the most intriguing but I'd take Trubisky.

He's a full of sh*t a shock jock.  If anyone game a **** about what Chris Simms thought, he wouldnt be a podcast/blogger dweeb.  Have you actually seen his critique of Fields?  His "evaluation" contains hard hitting sh*t like; he does things and stuff at times and these things and stuff at times gives me pause.  Nothing specific.  He's a hack.  

lmfao and you eat it up like it's fact.  He doesnt know sh*t.  We'll see if the Fields really falls like he's claiming.  I highly doubt it.  This is a stupid mock by a stupid moron we're talking about here. 

That’s BS He criticized specific things  about his throwing  motion and gave specific details about his mechanics that worried him a lot that he isn’t sure is fixable.

I know he wasn’t a great pro but perhaps someone who started in the NFL might have a little more insight about that then someone on a message board?

I know it’s a crazy thought but is it possible he knows more about QB’s then you?

 

 

 

[RogerVick1980]

13 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Wow - Justin Fields going to SF is now +650 on FanDuel.

Mac Jones -340

Trey Lance +300 

 

Fields Over/Under draft position is 8.5

 

A lot of people here  are gonna look extremely foolish  if Fields drops lol.

[JustInFudge]

Just now, RogerVick1980 said:

That’s BS He criticized specific things  about his throwing  motion and gave specific details about his mechanics that worried him a lot that he isn’t sure is fixable.

I know he wasn’t a great pro but perhaps someone who started in the NFL might have a little more insight about that then someone on a message board?

I know it’s a crazy thought but is it possible he knows more about QB’s then you?

 

 

 

I doubt it.  I QB'd my team to a flag football intramural championship at the University of Florida.

[Bruce Harper]

For me, it hurts his credibility a bit, as to his love for Zach.  No way will Fields fall that low.

[RogerVick1980]

1 minute ago, Bruce Harper said:

For me, it hurts his credibility a bit, as to his love for Zach.  No way will Fields fall that low.

How does it hurt his credibility when none of these guys have played a down yet in the pros?

[Jet2020]

I will probably be singled out here but if Fields is there at 23, I’ll swing for the fences and take him in a heartbeat. After taking Wilson at #2. Gives JD an extra strike to work with. Trade the lesser of the two in 2022 or 2023 to recoup some of that capital. You can’t ever overspend draft capital searching for the right QB. 

[Bruce Harper]

23 minutes ago, RogerVick1980 said:

How does it hurt his credibility when none of these guys have played a down yet in the pros?

Obviously making a judgment based on my own judgement of Fields.  Decent QBs mostly get overdrafted.  Fields threw for six QBs in a huge game against Clemson, with cracked ribs.  I don't see any scenario where he falls to the end of the first round. I've been wrong before, though.

[RogerVick1980]

3 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

Obviously making a judgment based on my own judgement of Fields.  Decent QBs mostly get overdrafted.  Fields threw for six QBs in a huge game against Clemson, with cracked ribs.  I don't see any scenario where he falls to the end of the first round. I've been wrong before, though.

Oh yeah I agree with that.

Even if he slips I can’t see him falling that far.

Id be shocked 

[choon328]

1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

Grade on throws past 1st read since 2019: (min. 60 attempts) 1st - Justin Fields - 90.6 2nd - Zach Wilson - 90.1 3rd - Trey Lance - 87.2 ... 7th - Trevor Lawrence - 78.6 8th - Mac Jones - 75.7

How about some context? It says minimum 60 throws.  He's thrown the ball 579 times. Why is this set so low? You would think at least half  of a QB's throws would progress passed the 1st read. Is his second read his outlet receiver? There is so much context missing on this tweet and when asked in the comment section PFF wouldn't respond to those questions and they typically respond on Twitter. 

Here's a more telling stat. 59% of his completions went to 2 players. The 3rd highest receiver accounted for 8%

Mac Jones 54%, 3rd highest 18%

Zach Wilson 47%, 3rd highest 16%

Trevor Lawrence 56%, 3rd highest 21%

This stat is more indicative of which QB goes through progressions more frequently. In fact out of the 3 not named Justin Fields,  Zach Wilson is the only QB whose top 3 receivers are actually WR's which leads me to believe he is going through his reads more frequently. Probably bc the talent level around him wasn't great and he had to actually look for the open receiver. The other two have HBs mixed in with big reception numbers. The 3rd and 4th highest for Fields were TE and HB separated by 1 reception.

This is why some scouts and analysts believe Wilson is the most pro ready QB and why Fields has the biggest hill to climb

[GreenReaper]

1 hour ago, RogerVick1980 said:

Oh yeah I agree with that.

Even if he slips I can’t see him falling that far.

Id be shocked 

But that was my whole point guys.  Simms contrived him falling there to TB at #32.  

Tom Brady made some $19 mil adjustments to his salary to get everybody back on board to make another push for the Supe.  Do you think for one minute that he would be ok for TB to draft a QB that's going to hold a clipboard for another two years...maybe more.  Really?  You know Brady would be pissed if TB didn't honor his sacrifice and draft someone who could be a possible helpful piece down the near the end of the season.  That might help contribute?  .

No way...It was contrived.  Every team passes Fields up.  And out of the goodness of their hearts, TB saves him from falling out of the 1st round...with Brady's blessings.  Nothing natural about it at all.

All contrived bs on Simms part.