Chris Simms mock has Justin Fields going to TB at #32

[Tranquilo]

1 minute ago, choon328 said:

How about some context? It says minimum 60 throws.  He's thrown the ball 579 times. Why is this set so low? You would think at least half  of a QB's throws would progress passed the 1st read. Is his second read his outlet receiver? There is so much context missing on this tweet and when asked in the comment section PFF wouldn't respond to those questions and they typically respond on Twitter. 

Here's a more telling stat. 59% of his completions went to 2 players. The 3rd highest receiver accounted for 8%

Mac Jones 54%, 3rd highest 18%

Zach Wilson 47%, 3rd highest 16%

Trevor Lawrence 56%, 3rd highest 21%

This stat is more indicative of which QB good through progressions more frequently. In fact out of the 3 not named Justin Fields,  Zach Wilson is the only QB whose top 3 receivers are actually WR's. The other two have HBs mixed in with big reception numbers. 

[Drums]

3 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

Fields is WAAAAAAYYY BETTER than folks are saying....

It is nuts that a guy who has played against the best competition (based on defenses played) in the country and who is the more accurate passer at most levels in the country is now considered less of a prospect than say  a -------------------------Mark Sanchez!

This is NUTS!!!!

I feel like most years there is a QB that slides or maybe is completely overlooked that just comes out and surprises everyone. Looking like Fields might be that dude this year. I don’t think he deserves the kind of criticism he gets but I am not a scout. All I know is that after that Clemson game we were all sucking his deek. 

[JohnnyLV]

5 hours ago, Leftylarry said:

 

It was a great game. Has almost nothing to do with ulitimately being successful in the NFL.. He also sucked in 2 games and they are no more predictive of him being a bust. I said he was talented and I think he will be successful but I see the highest bust potential in him as well.

[K_O_Brien]

It's his Joe Tryon to the Jets at 23 take that scares me. Think Simms would probably admit himself, his evaluations on defensive players isn't as strong as it is on QBs. 

[RogerVick1980]

26 minutes ago, GreenReaper said:

But that was my whole point guys.  Simms contrived him falling there to TB at #32.  

Tom Brady made some $19 mil adjustments to his salary to get everybody back on board to make another push for the Supe.  Do you think for one minute that he would be ok for TB to draft a QB that's going to hold a clipboard for another two years...maybe more.  Really?  You know Brady would be pissed if TB didn't honor his sacrifice and draft someone who could be a possible helpful piece down the near the end of the season.  That might help contribute?  .

No way...It was contrived.  Every team passes Fields up.  And out of the goodness of their hearts, TB saves him from falling out of the 1st round...with Brady's blessings.  Nothing natural about it at all.

All contrived bs on Simms part.  

I gotta say listening to Simms for awhile I truly believe he believes most of what  he says I don’t get the impression he just wants clicks 

While I disagree with him here I will say a few prominent NFL guys have said  today people think Fields will slip well see.

[JohnnyLV]

20 minutes ago, RogerVick1980 said:

I gotta say listening to Simms for awhile I truly believe he believes most of what  he says I don’t get the impression he just wants clicks 

While I disagree with him here I will say a few prominent NFL guys have said  today people think Fields will slip well see.

Simms wants a FO position and he wants his picks to be accurate so he can build a reputation like Mayock to get there, so no he has not going for clicks. I like the way he evaluates QBs. He evaluates each throw in a vacuum -the opposing team quality of the defender quality of the defender, just how would this throw translate to the NFL. To me it makes sense, if someone has perfect position to defend a pass it doesn't really matter that much if it is Joe Schmoe or Neon Deion is the player. He purely looks how traits and skills translate to the NFL.  

Many of the people defending Fields are saying things completely the opposite of this like

"he threw 6 TDs against Clemson!"

" he was the #1 5 star out of high school"

"he has been #2 QB for 2 years!"

Intangibles are important and part of the picture but not more important than traits.

[RogerVick1980]

23 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Simms wants a FO position and he wants his picks to be accurate so he can build a reputation like Mayock to get there, so no he has not going for clicks. I like the way he evaluates QBs. He evaluates each throw in a vacuum -the opposing team quality of the defender quality of the defender, just how would this throw translate to the NFL. To me it makes sense, if someone has perfect position to defend a pass it doesn't really matter that much if it is Joe Schmoe or Neon Deion is the player. He purely looks how traits and skills translate to the NFL.  

Many of the people defending Fields are saying things completely the opposite of this like

"he threw 6 TDs against Clemson!"

" he was the #1 5 star out of high school"

"he has been #2 QB for 2 years!"

Intangibles are important and part of the picture but not more important than traits.

Yeah that means nothing it’s about traits.

Tight window throws are tight window throws no matter the level of competition 

There’s been plenty of great QB’s from smaller schools and plenty of busts from big names schools.

[Leftylarry]

1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

It was a great game. Has almost nothing to do with ulitimately being successful in the NFL.. He also sucked in 2 games and they are no more predictive of him being a bust. I said he was talented and I think he will be successful but I see the highest bust potential in him as well.

Yes, running for first downs, throwing on the run,  dumping off to backs in rhythm, hitting 65 yards in the air throws, finding TEs in the end zone, none of the skills he showed there have anything to do with the NFL.

Sorry, not buying it.

[Leftylarry]

1 hour ago, K_O_Brien said:

It's his Joe Tryon to the Jets at 23 take that scares me. Think Simms would probably admit himself, his evaluations on defensive players isn't as strong as it is on QBs. 

Joe Tryon might fit our defense very well

Might be a reach at #23 but that guy has a lot of potential.

[Matt39]

heard Lombardi saying there are big concerns with his mechanics. Out of high school they were a disaster...have gotten better but major concerns he won’t protect the football. Epilepsy too? Not surprising if he drops.

[slimjasi]

There's no chance Fields makes it to 32, IMO

[JustInFudge]

2 hours ago, choon328 said:

How about some context? It says minimum 60 throws.  He's thrown the ball 579 times. Why is this set so low? You would think at least half  of a QB's throws would progress passed the 1st read. Is his second read his outlet receiver? There is so much context missing on this tweet and when asked in the comment section PFF wouldn't respond to those questions and they typically respond on Twitter. 

Here's a more telling stat. 59% of his completions went to 2 players. The 3rd highest receiver accounted for 8%

Mac Jones 54%, 3rd highest 18%

Zach Wilson 47%, 3rd highest 16%

Trevor Lawrence 56%, 3rd highest 21%

This stat is more indicative of which QB goes through progressions more frequently. In fact out of the 3 not named Justin Fields,  Zach Wilson is the only QB whose top 3 receivers are actually WR's which leads me to believe he is going through his reads more frequently. Probably bc the talent level around him wasn't great and he had to actually look for the open receiver. The other two have HBs mixed in with big reception numbers. The 3rd and 4th highest for Fields were TE and HB separated by 1 reception.

This is why some scouts and analysts believe Wilson is the most pro ready QB and why Fields has the biggest hill to climb

Meh, it really doesnt.  What if the play was a screen?  There is data out there, Ohio St. rarely threw screens.  They also rarely threw to the RB's, look at how many completions Lawrence and Wilson had to RB's.  Look at how many screens they ran.  That's a one read and you can throw it to 7 different players in a game.  Florida does this a ton, for example, that doesnt mean the QB is going through progression.  It actually means the opposite.  

It's been beaten to death and I'm tired of having the conversation because people hear what they want to hear but Ohio St. offense requires Fields to scan the field and make reads because they run so many vertical routes, they run mesh concepts deeper then anyone in the country and because they run so many option routes, hence the data I shared but whatevs.  I would argue the guy who proved it at the highest level running an offense that requires work pre/post snap consistently year over and year and can tuck it run effectively is more pro ready but clearly there is a lot of agree to disagree going on here.

 

 

 

[Irish Jet]

36 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

heard Lombardi saying there are big concerns with his mechanics. Out of high school they were a disaster...have gotten better but major concerns he won’t protect the football. Epilepsy too? Not surprising if he drops.

It’s amazing more people can’t see it. Simms done a good breakdown of how he’s all arm with his throws, how it affects his accuracy and velocity. He plays slow, everything from his pocket movement to his throwing motion his sluggish. All the fake 4.4 40 tomes in the world wont change that. I’ve been saying this since November. 

He’s just a mess of a prospect. Needs far too much refinement to go top 5-10. Tampa is genuinely the best case scenario for him because he needs to sit and overhaul aspects of his game.

[Matt39]

5 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

It’s amazing more people can’t see it. Simms done a good breakdown of how he’s all arm with his throws, how it affects his accuracy and velocity. He plays slow, everything from his pocket movement to his throwing motion his sluggish. All the fake 4.4 40 tomes in the world wont change that. I’ve been saying this since November. 

He’s just a mess of a prospect. Needs far too much refinement to go top 5-10. Tampa is genuinely the best case scenario for him because he needs to sit and overhaul aspects of his game.

I think the word is out that the league isn’t impressed by Fields and think he’s a bust. 
 

My question is if the Niners have Jones ranked ahead of Wilson on their board and what the Jets scout come away with from Jones.

[dbatesman]

47 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

heard Lombardi saying there are big concerns with his mechanics. Out of high school they were a disaster...have gotten better but major concerns he won’t protect the football. Epilepsy too? Not surprising if he drops.

Epilepsy isn’t a big deal, but he doesn’t look very smooth or natural and he takes a billion sacks. I get that people have concerns about Wilson, and with good cause, but Fields has a lot of question marks too.

[JustInFudge]

43 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

heard Lombardi saying there are big concerns with his mechanics. Out of high school they were a disaster...have gotten better but major concerns he won’t protect the football. Epilepsy too? Not surprising if he drops.

Wait, this a thing?  Fields has bad mechanics? He's smooth as can be, plenty of stuff out there about how they're perfect.  

And how is Wilson appealing because of his bad mechanics but Fields is bad because of supposed bad mechanics.

Draft season has officially jumped the shark.  This all so dumb. 

I'm sorry I even care. 

[JustInFudge]

Just now, dbatesman said:

Epilepsy isn’t a big deal, but he doesn’t look very smooth or natural and he takes a billion sacks. I get that people have concerns about Wilson, and with good cause, but Fields has a lot of question marks too.

[JustInFudge]

Justin Fields has bad mechanics and isnt smooth or natural.

holy sh*t

lmfao

omg

 

[Matt39]

Just now, JiFapono said:

Wait, this a thing?  Fields has bad mechanics? He's smooth as can be, plenty of stuff out there about how they're perfect.  

And how is Wilson appealing because of his bad mechanics but Fields is bad because of supposed bad mechanics.

Draft season has officially jumped the shark.  This all so dumb. 

I'm sorry I even care. 

I dont really love Wilson either...but I see the criticism with Fields. His mechanics are off and he throws like a pitcher (it has gotten better). 

I'd probably go Jones over Wilson, but I'd have both of those guys ahead of Fields.

[JustInFudge]

[dbatesman]

1 minute ago, JiFapono said:

 

Just now, JiFapono said:

Justin Fields has bad mechanics and isnt smooth or natural.

holy sh*t

lmfao

omg

 

You guys are touchier than the Wilson stans

[JustInFudge]

Just now, Matt39 said:

I dont really love Wilson either...but I see the criticism with Fields. His mechanics are off and he throws like a pitcher (it has gotten better). 

I'd probably go Jones over Wilson, but I'd have both of those guys ahead of Fields.

Right on, agree to disagree.

Doesnt matter anyway, Zachapono is going to be the pick.  

[JustInFudge]

8 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Wait, this a thing?  Fields has bad mechanics? He's smooth as can be, plenty of stuff out there about how they're perfect.  

And how is Wilson appealing because of his bad mechanics but Fields is bad because of supposed bad mechanics.

Draft season has officially jumped the shark.  This all so dumb. 

I'm sorry I even care. 

 

5 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

 

You guys are touchier than the Wilson stans

Well, you posted that while I was in the midst of posting this...so, it was kind of more of a reverse ninja lol moment but the other post is me just laughing in general to the stupidity of the draft.  It's been happening for while, Watson and MPH, etc.  This year is just the worst it's ever been and this particular one I find to be completely and utterly ridiculous.  But it's cool, like I said, no worries, I'm ashamed I even care this much, especially knowing Zachypoo is coming to town.

 

[dbatesman]

29 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

 

Well, you posted that while I was in the midst of posting this...so, it was kind of more of a reverse ninja lol moment but the other post is me just laughing in general to the stupidity of the draft.  It's been happening for while, Watson and MPH, etc.  This year is just the worst it's ever been and this particular one I find to be completely and utterly ridiculous.  But it's cool, like I said, no worries, I'm ashamed I even care this much, especially knowing Zachypoo is coming to town.

 

I stopped caring a long time ago. No need to get excited for any of these guys, because I’ll probably be wrong and anyone the Jets draft is probably going to suck anyway

[Tranquilo]

44 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

 

You guys are touchier than the Wilson stans

The guy changed his name to Zach’s middle name and now sports an avatar of Zach Wilson. He’s prob broken.

anyway, Fields doesn’t have the best throwing motion, and that’s something that can’t be denied. Otherwise he’d be going top 3.

[Raideraholic]

1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

There's no chance Fields makes it to 32, IMO

I agree Jon Gruden will never let him get past him at 17.   He can learn behind Derek Carr for the next couple of years.    

[Untouchable]

1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

 

You guys are touchier than the Wilson stans

By far

I’m done pretending like I know which one of these guys will hit or miss.

I’m completely indifferent 

Guys who travel around the country year round evaluating these guys for a living are constantly wrong. So why the hell am I going to pretend like I know who is going to be a sh*tstain or a homerun?

We already missed out on Lawrence. Now, depending on who you’re listening to, it could be Wilson next in line...or Fields...or Jones...or Lance...whatever.

Take your preferred QB at #2 and for gods sake, surround him with some actual talent.

Looking on the bright side, regardless of the QB we take, at least we aren’t surrounding him with a bunch of David Nelson’s, Terrelle Pryor’s, and Jeff Cumberland’s like we’ve done in the past.

Instead of total dogsh*t we’ve at least achieved “average” level.

Thank Jebus

[Matt39]

2 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

By far

I’m done pretending like I know which one of these guys will hit or miss.

I’m completely indifferent 

Guys who travel around the country year round evaluating these guys for a living are constantly wrong. So why the hell am I going to pretend like I know who is going to be a sh*tstain or a homerun?

We already missed out on Lawrence. Now, depending on who you’re listening to, it could be Wilson next in line...or Fields...or Jones...or Lance...whatever.

Take your preferred QB at #2 and for gods sake, surround him with some actual talent.

Looking on the bright side, regardless of the QB we take, at least we aren’t surrounding him with a bunch of David Nelson’s, Terrelle Pryor’s, and Jeff Cumberland’s like we’ve done in the past.

Instead of total dogsh*t we’ve at least achieved “average” level.

Thank Jebus

The only thing I'm certain of is Lawrence is totally legit and is the deservedly #1 guy in this class.

[Untouchable]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

The only thing I'm certain of is Lawrence is totally legit and is the deservedly #1 guy in this class.

Agreed

Maybe he isn’t the next Elway, but I’m pretty damn sure that the Jags will square away their QB worries for at least the next decade.

But hey, the Jets got to give “team players” like Sam Darnold, Jordan Jenkins and Brian Poole two meaningless wins on their way out the door.

Whoopty sh*t

[isired]

LMFAO sorry but I don't eat it up like its fact at all, I simply agree with his assessment over JIF's and go figure he actually played the position and evaluates these players for a living.

An NFL Player Personnel employee evaluates players for a living. Simms engages with his audience for a living. And online, that engagement is measured in clicks/views. That's his job.

[Vader]

If Joe Douglas and Co draft Joe Tryon, at 23, i will do nothing but cry into my sleeve privately for an hour 

[Smashmouth]

3 hours ago, isired said:

 

An NFL Player Personnel employee evaluates players for a living. Simms engages with his audience for a living. And online, that engagement is measured in clicks/views. That's his job.
 

what's your point ? You think Simm's just sits back and takes wild guesses at these QB's ? He evaluates their video and comes up with rankings which is exactly the same thing a scout does. Its not like there is a tremendous amount of Data to analyze  here. Simms has a radio show he does for a few hours a day what do you think he's doing with the rest of his time ?

[isired]

what's your point ? You think Simm's just sits back and takes wild guesses at these QB's ? He evaluates their video and comes up with rankings which is exactly the same thing a scout does. Its not like there is a tremendous amount of Data to analyze  here. Simms has a radio show he does for a few hours a day what do you think he's doing with the rest of his time ?

I don't doubt that there are aspects of Fields' game that he doesn't like, but what he likes or doesn't like doesn't really matter when it comes to predicting where he'll get drafted. For him to say that Fields falls to 32 would mean not only that SF doesn't like him at 3 but several others between 3 and 15, then NE, WFT, CHI, et al.

Making an extreme statement like Fields is going to fall to 32 is done to generate clicks. Just my opinion.

[roscoeword]

Fields dropping last amongst top qb's could be a de ja vu to what happened to Lamar Jackson, who ended up being better than most of the others (Rosen, Allen, Darnold, Mayfield)  .  Fields is also super athletic, like Jackson, and if you're going to talk about throwing mechanics, Jackson's look awful to me. So, Fields might be a better prospect than all of them.

[Smashmouth]

6 hours ago, isired said:

I don't doubt that there are aspects of Fields' game that he doesn't like, but what he likes or doesn't like doesn't really matter when it comes to predicting where he'll get drafted. For him to say that Fields falls to 32 would mean not only that SF doesn't like him at 3 but several others between 3 and 15, then NE, WFT, CHI, et al.

Making an extreme statement like Fields is going to fall to 32 is done to generate clicks. Just my opinion.

I agree 100% with your opinion on Simms saying Fields going at 32 is a bad prediction or to a lesser degree possible click bait but when it comes to actually rating the QB's I think he has Fields as his number 5 prospect. For all we know 5 QB's can possibly go in the first 15 picks and they very well might. I should have been more clear that I was talking only the QB rankings which did go slightly off topic. Fort the most part Simms has been pretty spot on evaluating QB's so I respect his opinion while some others tend to bash the hell out of anything that does not fit their opinion and we are probably all guilty of this to some extent .