Watch Mac Jones Fall Into Patriot's Lap

[Hex]

Mac Jones is a future HOFer

[heymangold]

2 minutes ago, jgb said:

Ok, now go by stats and tell us who is better: Zach Wilson or... anybody.

i never said zach was better than anybody - i've been arguing with you that the patriots entire team is better then the jets, therefore mac jones is having success.  if the jets had a better team, zach wilson would be having success.

[Barry McCockinner]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

Ok, now go by stats and tell us who is better: Zach Wilson or... everybody.

well yea but that's because LaFleur changes the play calling

[Jetluv58]

43 minutes ago, jgb said:

I agree. It's a shame that so many hate our OL, weaponz, coaching staff, and front office. It's sad that I constantly have to defend like 99 guys who are being dragged down by 1. We are 1 piece away from a good team, guys. Not 99. This is good news.

Who is that one piece we need, specifically?

[jgb]

56 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

Would you be so kind as to explain your reasoning here Woody?

There is a fatal inconsistency in the defense of Zach (or any other failing QB).

It always relates to the situation. It's the line's fault, or the weaponz, or the coaches, or the playcalling, or the this or the that. Meanwhile, QBs who perform well elsewhere, are but fortunate beneficiaries of a great situation. If that be true, why expend so much energy defending a guy who is is in reality just a vessel for the environment he finds himself in? 

The contrary position makes much more intellectual sense. The Wilson critics are so vocal about Wilson because we believe he is the reason he sucks.

[heymangold]

Just now, Jetluv58 said:

Who is that one piece we need, specifically?

judging by the thread - mac jones

[Green Ghost]

3 hours ago, sciond said:

I think the rule is we wait 3 years.,

It’s called “The Darnold Theory”

Blame everything and anyone else for 3 years… except the problem which is staring you right in the face.

[heymangold]

Just now, Green Ghost said:

It’s called “The Darnold Theory”

Blame everything and anyone else for 3 years… except the problem which is staring you right in the face.

understood - but in wilson's case its been 7 starts.

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Jetluv58 said:

Who is that one piece we need, specifically?

I think you know.

[munchmemory]

On 4/29/2021 at 9:56 AM, THE BARON said:

After Trevor Lawrence, I have Mac Jones rated as the second best QB prospect in the draft.  

I have a feeling he's going to wind up landing right in Belichick's lap.

Would that not just be sooo much like the Jets and the Pats ???

The Jets take Zac Wilson at 2'nd overall and he's out of the league in four years.

Mac Jones lands at the 15th spot with the Patriots, is out of the starting gate quickly and wins a Super Bowl before his rookie contract is up.

Wanna bet ?

This is just shockingly prescient.   Dude, you nailed this big time.  Kudos.

[Barry McCockinner]

7 minutes ago, jgb said:

There is a fatal inconsistency in the defense of Zach (or any other failing QB).

It always relates to the situation. It's the lines fault, or the weaponz, or the coaches. Meanwhile, QBs who perform well, are but lucky beneficiaries of a great situation. If that be true, why expend so much energy defending a guy who is is in reality just a vessel for the situation he finds himself in? 

The contrary position makes much more intellectual sense. The Wilson critics are so vocal about Wilson because we believe he is the reason he sucks.

There is definitely merit to the idea that young QB's do better when they land in a better situation. Go through the top QB's in the league and tell me which ones landed on a garbage team and lifted them. It's the exception. It's just an easier task for a rookie to come up into a stable organization on a good team than it is an organization with all sorts of change (rookie coaches, changing gm's, etc) and a crappy team. 

That said, we've seen every backup the Jets pickup off the scrap pile operate the offense more efficiently than Wilson has been able to do yet. He's a rookie and has room to grow but so far he's been the main problem on offense and I don't know how anyone can see it any other way. We have plenty of evidence of that at this point.

[jetstream23]

On 4/29/2021 at 7:01 AM, Warfish said:

I really wish people would stop obsessing over what other rival teams might do.

It reeks of inferiority complex.  It implies they'll always get the better of us.

Worry about US, Fu*k everyone else. 

Worry about us.

 

Oh, I am.

 

[Green Ghost]

1 minute ago, heymangold said:

judging by the thread - mac jones

There you go. Now was that so hard? ?

[munchmemory]

5 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

It’s called “The Darnold Theory”

Blame everything and anyone else for 3 years… except the problem which is staring you right in the face.

And get eviscerated by many here who refuse (afraid perhaps?) to see the obvious.  

[Biggs]

11 minutes ago, heymangold said:

i never said zach was better than anybody - i've been arguing with you that the patriots entire team is better then the jets, therefore mac jones is having success.  if the jets had a better team, zach wilson would be having success.

Don't think Zach would be starting on the Pats.   He's not fundementally sound enough to have won a QB competition.   Mac Jones wasn't handed the job.  Zach was. 

[munchmemory]

Just now, Biggs said:

Don't think Zach would be starting on the Pats.   He's not fundementally sound enough to have won a QB competition.   Mac Jones wasn't handed the job.  Zach was. 

And was made a captain.  That was beyond nuts.  

[Green Ghost]

14 minutes ago, heymangold said:

understood - but in wilson's case its been 7 starts.

I’m really not trying to be a d**k here, so don’t take this personally… but again, another lazy take used by many.

In those 7 starts I’ve seen absolutely nothing that makes me think we’ve upgraded from the kid I was the first to call a bust here 4 years ago. In fact Darnold looked better through his first 7 games.

Most of this board went gaga reading the TC reports. If I posted back then Wilson would be as bad as he’s been come December, I’d have been called a troll.

He’s been so bad it’s almost historically impossible to see him becoming even a top 15 QB in this league.

[Barry McCockinner]

5 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

And was made a captain.  That was beyond nuts.  

Totally nuts for an NFL team to vote for their starting QB as a captain. Unheard of.

[munchmemory]

Just now, Barry McCockinner said:

Totally nuts for an NFL team to vote for their starting QB as a captain. Unheard of.

When it's a f*cking rookie who's done nothing in the NFL.   Never threw a pass.  Handed a ball off.   Lead the team in any way.  Yeah, it's stupid and adds even more pressure on your rookie QB who I think in his heart knew he wasn't ready to start.  Claro? 

[undertow]

12 minutes ago, heymangold said:

understood - but in wilson's case its been 7 starts.

People should just stick to this simple excuse instead of twisting themselves into pretzels with a bunch of other nonsense that makes no sense.  It's only been 7 games he should get better but the early results are alarming to say the least.

[Barry McCockinner]

2 minutes ago, undertow said:

People should just stick to this simple excuse instead of twisting themselves into pretzels with a bunch of other nonsense that makes no sense.  It's only been 7 games he should get better but the early results are alarming to say the least.

how many of those starts were with booth lafleur?

[jgb]

33 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

well yea but that's because LaFleur changes the play calling

[jgb]

29 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

There is definitely merit to the idea that young QB's do better when they land in a better situation. Go through the top QB's in the league and tell me which ones landed on a garbage team and lifted them. It's the exception. It's just an easier task for a rookie to come up into a stable organization on a good team than it is an organization with all sorts of change (rookie coaches, changing gm's, etc) and a crappy team. 

That said, we've seen every backup the Jets pickup off the scrap pile operate the offense more efficiently than Wilson has been able to do yet. He's a rookie and has room to grow but so far he's been the main problem on offense and I don't know how anyone can see it any other way. We have plenty of evidence of that at this point.

Oh situation makes a difference. No argument there at all.

But can situation really transform the worst-rated QB in the league into the long term answer? Man.... those are some long ass odds.

[jgb]

39 minutes ago, heymangold said:

i never said zach was better than anybody - i've been arguing with you that the patriots entire team is better then the jets, therefore mac jones is having success.  if the jets had a better team, zach wilson would be having success.

There is a huge logical chasm that you cannot leap over to start from premise "Situation bad" to arrive at conclusion "QB therefore good."

I mean didn't we just go over this with Simple Sam?

[Snell41]

understood - but in wilson's case its been 7 starts.

No it’s not. To many of us it goes back much further. Prior to his final season at BYU he wasn’t on a single radar as a 1st round prospect. Not one. He was a guy who’d likely have been stashed on someone’s practice squad or at best been a guy drafted in a late round flyer like James Morgan. He had to earn his starting job in a competition because the coaching staff wasn’t sold on his performance up to that point. It’s likely the reason he wasn’t named captain. So he barely earns the starting job his final year and in empty stadiums against really half rate competition the light bulb went off for him enough to dominate. He’s basically level 20 when the NFL is 100. So then we go to the make up of the player:

Football intelligence- not particularly good, certainly not at NFL speed, and I’d bet behind closed doors he’s concerningly slow at processing it on film. I don’t think he’s ever seen quite a bit of what NFL defenses employ, nor do I think he’s familiar with a full gambit of offensive plays, and most certainly not how they interact and counteract each other. This is why I think his best shot was to be a mid/late round prospect and sit and really learn the nuances and strategies of the NFL game.

Athleticism-he runs a 4.6 which is nice, but with his frame if he runs 4.6 into an NFL defender he’s going to get crushed. I don’t think he’s small like some knock him, but he certainly lacks mass and is not a QB you want using his legs like Josh Allen or Kyler Murray. He does get away from defenders to extend plays but that’s the extent his athleticism bears value in my opinion

Arm Strength- We all agree he has a cannon and can make any NFL throw. It’s not the strongest arm ever or generational like some of his fans imply, it’s not even the strongest arm in the league, but it’s certainly in the upper echelon of NFL QB’s and by far his best quality.

Accuracy- This wasn’t a problem until the NFL, and I believe is currently due to his deficiencies in Football Intelligence. I think he’s drowning mentally in the moment and it’s completely torn down his basics.

Footwork and mechanics- again, currently a mess but like his accuracy I think it’s due to his lack of football knowledge.

He was a terrible pick at 2 overall to a team desperate for him to walk in and be the man on day one. You could put him on the Bucs or Cardinals and he’d still be awful because he doesn’t know what he’s doing out there. He’s a guy that needs 2-3 years learning the game before actually playing it. I think we, along with most franchises, get this idea that the mental game is easier to teach so long as the physical skills are awesome. Desperation and the fact there are only about 15 people on the planet who can actually play the position at a high level leads to leads to picks like this. I personally feel we have two viable options that could lead to success with him- First and best is to bench him immediately and sign a viable veteran next year for him to sit behind. Let him spend the time studying offenses and defenses until he’s nauseous from it. If in year 3 he finally has it clicking and unseats said veteran then we may have our guy. The other is to keep throwing him out there now and see what happens, but if he finishes this season out as dreadfully as he’s been then he’s probably mental mush, and we certainly better be prepared with a viable alternative next year or else everyone is going to be losing their jobs again.


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[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

 

No it’s not. To many of us it goes back much further. Prior to his final season at BYU he wasn’t on a single radar as a 1st round prospect. Not one. He was a guy who’d likely have been stashed on someone’s practice squad or at best been a guy drafted in a late round flyer like James Morgan. He had to earn his starting job in a competition because the coaching staff wasn’t sold on his performance up to that point. It’s likely the reason he wasn’t named captain. So he barely earns the starting job his final year and in empty stadiums against really half rate competition the light bulb went off for him enough to dominate. He’s basically level 20 when the NFL is 100. So then we go to the make up of the player:

Football intelligence- not particularly good, certainly not at NFL speed, and I’d bet behind closed doors he’s concerningly slow at processing it on film. I don’t think he’s ever seen quite a bit of what NFL defenses employ, nor do I think he’s familiar with a full gambit of offensive plays, and most certainly not how they interact and counteract each other. This is why I think his best shot was to be a mid/late round prospect and sit and really learn the nuances and strategies of the NFL game.

Athleticism-he runs a 4.6 which is nice, but with his frame if he runs 4.6 into an NFL defender he’s going to get crushed. I don’t think he’s small like some knock him, but he certainly lacks mass and is not a QB you want using his legs like Josh Allen or Kyler Murray. He does get away from defenders to extend plays but that’s the extent his athleticism bears value in my opinion

Arm Strength- We all agree he has a cannon and can make any NFL throw. It’s not the strongest arm ever or generational like some of his fans imply, it’s not even the strongest arm in the league, but it’s certainly in the upper echelon of NFL QB’s and by far his best quality.

Accuracy- This wasn’t a problem until the NFL, and I believe is currently due to his deficiencies in Football Intelligence. I think he’s drowning mentally in the moment and it’s completely torn down his basics.

Footwork and mechanics- again, currently a mess but like his accuracy I think it’s due to his lack of football knowledge.

He was a terrible pick at 2 overall to a team desperate for him to walk in and be the man on day one. You could put him on the Bucs or Cardinals and he’d still be awful because he doesn’t know what he’s doing out there. He’s a guy that needs 2-3 years learning the game before actually playing it. I think we, along with most franchises, get this idea that the mental game is easier to teach so long as the physical skills are awesome. Desperation and the fact there are only about 15 people on the planet who can actually play the position at a high level leads to leads to picks like this. I personally feel we have two viable options that could lead to success with him- First and best is to bench him immediately and sign a viable veteran next year for him to sit behind. Let him spend the time studying offenses and defenses until he’s nauseous from it. If in year 3 he finally has it clicking and unseats said veteran then we may have our guy. The other is to keep throwing him out there now and see what happens, but if he finishes this season out as dreadfully as he’s been then he’s probably mental mush, and we certainly better be prepared with a viable alternative next year or else everyone is going to be losing their jobs again.


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[Hex]

2 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

 

No it’s not. To many of us it goes back much further. Prior to his final season at BYU he wasn’t on a single radar as a 1st round prospect. Not one. He was a guy who’d likely have been stashed on someone’s practice squad or at best been a guy drafted in a late round flyer like James Morgan. He had to earn his starting job in a competition because the coaching staff wasn’t sold on his performance up to that point. It’s likely the reason he wasn’t named captain. So he barely earns the starting job his final year and in empty stadiums against really half rate competition the light bulb went off for him enough to dominate. He’s basically level 20 when the NFL is 100. So then we go to the make up of the player:

Football intelligence- not particularly good, certainly not at NFL speed, and I’d bet behind closed doors he’s concerningly slow at processing it on film. I don’t think he’s ever seen quite a bit of what NFL defenses employ, nor do I think he’s familiar with a full gambit of offensive plays, and most certainly not how they interact and counteract each other. This is why I think his best shot was to be a mid/late round prospect and sit and really learn the nuances and strategies of the NFL game.

Athleticism-he runs a 4.6 which is nice, but with his frame if he runs 4.6 into an NFL defender he’s going to get crushed. I don’t think he’s small like some knock him, but he certainly lacks mass and is not a QB you want using his legs like Josh Allen or Kyler Murray. He does get away from defenders to extend plays but that’s the extent his athleticism bears value in my opinion

Arm Strength- We all agree he has a cannon and can make any NFL throw. It’s not the strongest arm ever or generational like some of his fans imply, it’s not even the strongest arm in the league, but it’s certainly in the upper echelon of NFL QB’s and by far his best quality.

Accuracy- This wasn’t a problem until the NFL, and I believe is currently due to his deficiencies in Football Intelligence. I think he’s drowning mentally in the moment and it’s completely torn down his basics.

Footwork and mechanics- again, currently a mess but like his accuracy I think it’s due to his lack of football knowledge.

He was a terrible pick at 2 overall to a team desperate for him to walk in and be the man on day one. You could put him on the Bucs or Cardinals and he’d still be awful because he doesn’t know what he’s doing out there. He’s a guy that needs 2-3 years learning the game before actually playing it. I think we, along with most franchises, get this idea that the mental game is easier to teach so long as the physical skills are awesome. Desperation and the fact there are only about 15 people on the planet who can actually play the position at a high level leads to leads to picks like this. I personally feel we have two viable options that could lead to success with him- First and best is to bench him immediately and sign a viable veteran next year for him to sit behind. Let him spend the time studying offenses and defenses until he’s nauseous from it. If in year 3 he finally has it clicking and unseats said veteran then we may have our guy. The other is to keep throwing him out there now and see what happens, but if he finishes this season out as dreadfully as he’s been then he’s probably mental mush, and we certainly better be prepared with a viable alternative next year or else everyone is going to be losing their jobs again.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

Totally agree with most of this. However, I think that he can totally prove his worth as the #2 pick, but he didn't do great at BYU without competition, and when his starting role got put into question he manned up and played like a #2 prospect. I agree with you that he needed competition, and I think that once his starting role gets put into serious question he might step it up, although it might take getting benched.

Wilson was not NFL ready, and I still think he needs to sit behind Mike White or Flacco for the rest of the season. He has the potential to be great, and pretty much all of his problems are fixable, but he has a lot of problems, so he will take much longer to develop than most people expect.

[sciond]

4 hours ago, Green Ghost said:

It’s called “The Darnold Theory”

Blame everything and anyone else for 3 years… except the problem which is staring you right in the face.

no but 7 games c;mon

 the rule usually is wait 3 years to see how a draft shakes out

[UntouchableCrew]

4 hours ago, undertow said:

People should just stick to this simple excuse instead of twisting themselves into pretzels with a bunch of other nonsense that makes no sense.  It's only been 7 games he should get better but the early results are alarming to say the least.

This.

Yes, it's only seven games. There is hope he will improve.

But it's troubling that he's been this bad with so few glimmers of hope. QBs who are this bad early usually don't pan out.

[Icer]

More threads on Mac Jones on the front page than Zach Wilson. You filthy animals afraid of a game manager

[68JET11]

4 hours ago, Snell41 said:

Accuracy- This wasn’t a problem until the NFL, and I believe is currently due to his deficiencies in Football Intelligence. I think he’s drowning mentally in the moment and it’s completely torn down his basics.

 

4 hours ago, Hex said:

Wilson was not NFL ready,

If Wilson wasn't NFL ready, then it's the fault of our coaching staff. Something in our OC and HC saw something that said he was ready which is why he started Day 1. I believe the pounding he took on his first day shell shocked him.

You don't just lose your football intelligence in one start. You do however get the snot beat out of you and you go into a shell that's hard for a rookie to recover from. All his problems and yes he has problems right now, were putting this kid out there behind a line that wasn't ready to run the scheme the same way it's running it today.

Yes, he didn't have a good first game back from his knee injury, but that was rust, and still trying to clear the cobwebs out of his head. You can't tell me this kid doesn't have football intelligence, when that's all everyone was raving about him before he was even drafted. This kid hasn't been good, and I'll be the first to admit that, but putting it all on him, and not the coaching staff for not either calling plays like they did for White, or making sure the OL was effective before throwing him out there is on them, not the kid.

That does all change if the OL keeps playing consistent, and Zach does not improve, then it will be on him. Now it's not on him just yet.

[Hex]

3 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

If Wilson wasn't NFL ready, then it's the fault of our coaching staff. Something in our OC and HC saw something that said he was ready which is why he started Day 1. I believe the pounding he took on his first day shell shocked him.

He probably seemed ready, he was playing against a defense that has given up the most points so far by a long shot. Then he played a real defense. I think a huge reason why many rookies fail is because they're just thrown into the process. When was the last time a rookie QB we drafted high up didn't start the first game? Before Sanchez I think.

[Snell41]

If Wilson wasn't NFL ready, then it's the fault of our coaching staff. Something in our OC and HC saw something that said he was ready which is why he started Day 1. I believe the pounding he took on his first day shell shocked him.
You don't just lose your football intelligence in one start. You do however get the snot beat out of you and you go into a shell that's hard for a rookie to recover from. All his problems and yes he has problems right now, were putting this kid out there behind a line that wasn't ready to run the scheme the same way it's running it today.
Yes, he didn't have a good first game back from his knee injury, but that was rust, and still trying to clear the cobwebs out of his head. You can't tell me this kid doesn't have football intelligence, when that's all everyone was raving about him before he was even drafted. This kid hasn't been good, and I'll be the first to admit that, but putting it all on him, and not the coaching staff for not either calling plays like they did for White, or making sure the OL was effective before throwing him out there is on them, not the kid.
That does all change if the OL keeps playing consistent, and Zach does not improve, then it will be on him. Now it's not on him just yet.

Everything works just fine when Zach isn’t playing. I think it’s clear I blame coaching and scouting. Whoever signed off that he was ready to start was grossly incorrect.


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[68JET11]

11 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

Everything works just fine when Zach isn’t playing.

Do you actually think ML was calling the same game he was for White that he called the first 5 games for Zach... I think not, and it's clear. Zach needs to step up and play the same as the other that had success and I agree with that, but last Sunday was the first game that Zach played in that ML called somewhat the same as the games that White, Josh, and Flacco played in. If ML keeps that up, then Zach has to perform, no more excuses. 

[Green Ghost]

2 hours ago, sciond said:

no but 7 games c;mon

 the rule usually is wait 3 years to see how a draft shakes out

 

1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

This.

Yes, it's only seven games. There is hope he will improve.

But it's troubling that he's been this bad with so few glimmers of hope. QBs who are this bad early usually don't pan out.

This. ^^^^^