Jump to content

Jets made worst trade of draft?


Recommended Posts

I agree with the poster that said it matters WHO you move up for and not WHERE you move up to. My understanding is that JD and Saleh had AVT charted at #7 overall. In their minds they basically traded to #7 not #14. Furthermore, OL went in the very next pick, so without the trade they would never have AVT.

The wisdom of the trade depends entirely on whether AVT pans out and nothing else.

  • Upvote 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 120
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Yeah when Mt. Becton and AVT push people into the end zone for a key rushing TD we’ll all remember the trade value chart 😂

If he starts next to Becton for the next decade, and together they protect Wilson's blind side and open running lanes, then I couldn't care less what some analytics nerd thinks of the pick.

I blame Jimmy Johnson and his draft chart.  Everyone immediately grades these trades based on some subjective assignments of poitns to each pick.  But if the player you move up for, AVT in this case,

8 hours ago, Ghost said:

If anything, the trade with the Chiefs made absolutely zero sense to me. 

Marshall was one of my favorite picks in the entire draft. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Jamax99 said:

Excatly, when trade was annouced i thought a first next year,  for sure.    But only 2 3s  and you get a 4 back  that was great to move up 9 spots in first.   DARRISAW fell because of Raiders have no clue how to draft.  Taking a player that was a 2round grade. 

Yes, keeping 34 was a shock to me.

Very good trade...couldn't be happier.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I can never understand why GM’s of the teams that I follow never value players exactly the same way that I do. I also cannot comprehend that their vision for the team does not exactly align with mine.

This has happened EVERY year that I have followed this incredibly stupid franchise of the Jets. When will they get someone that gets it right, based on my particular vision?

  • Upvote 1
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Wit said:

They had Vera ticket ranked seven so in their eyes they got the number one and number 7 player in the draft and have you two thirds to get it. Darrisaw is a tackle and we needed a guard, so for us it was worth it. 

I don't  get all the talk about Darrisaw not being able to play G. The transition from going to inside from outside is easier than the other way around and Darrisaw  could have played RG which we also need. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, New York Mick said:

It wasn’t a good trade but they got the players they wanted 

^This

Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

This.

Also we have heard from several people there was only 15 first round players this year. As you saw Jenkins was a second rounder.

That clearly has to devalue our pick. So how much is our 1.23 worth if its really valued as 2.1? or 2.10? A mid third rounder. 

That is why the value chart is just a guide. We gave up an extra 4th in value if your looking at the chart. I would do that 1000x to get the safer prospect with Pro Bowl upside. Darrisaw had medical/character red flags and was passed by SEVERAL teams needing a LT. You can not bust on first round picks. You need safe players there. Loved the deal. 

 

I also may add:

1- I don't expect Douglas to make many trade ups like this in our time here with him. He didn't move up the rest of the draft so it clearly bothered him. 

2- Michael Carter would have been our pick in the third if you watched Douglas/Saleh's reaction. We got him anyway. 

3- Player grades year to year matter. I see Jason OTC sh*tted on this trade because the system he has made himself historically is just extremely general. Jason OTC's system says the colts traded down with us back in the day for a guard which looked horrible according to his system. (QB for a guard?) But you have to grade every trade extremely specific to that years players.

Again Darrisaw was passed on by the Panthers, Chargers, Vikings themselves, Vegas, Miami, Washington, Tenn and Indianapolis. All of which could have used a Franchise tackle. Why? There were red flags there. 

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

 

 

With all due respect to the OP who I have no issue with at all...

WTF cares what Seth Walder thinks about anything?

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Lith said:

I blame Jimmy Johnson and his draft chart.  Everyone immediately grades these trades based on some subjective assignments of poitns to each pick.  But if the player you move up for, AVT in this case, turns out to be as good as JD thinks, it is a good trade, regardless of "points."  If the player busts, it is a bad trade, again, regardless of what the chart says.

It was a steep ptice to pay, but with a rookie QB under center, and after seeing the way we failed to support Darnold the last few years, I am glad we got him.

Like I've been saying, the trade up for AVT is fine because JD got his #1 target after Zach.  I have no problem with that at all.  Love having AVT next to Becton. 

Those two will be the left side beginning of the Great Wall of Florham Park.

My problem is still what happened in round 2... and that's despite the fact that I really like this inside WR.  I'm done writing about it.  If our new slot plays lights out and we save a few million instead of our already good slot, then fine.  Perhaps they can try him a little on the outside as well.  If JD has a vision of Mahomes-to-Hill in Zach Wilson/Moore, and Douglas and Saleh are confident that's what it will be, then I'm behind it.

Day 3 gave us Michael Carter.  That in and of itself makes it a nice day 3.  But the rest was a DB abortion.  Never seen anything like it.  Douglas and Saleh have set up an open competition for multiple DB spots.  Whoever performs best in the summer and training camp will have a roster spot.  Just weird...    Never saw anything like that.  Totally disgusted while it was happening.  We'll see if this is a viable strategy when some of these DBs play well as money backer position. Douglas  passed on a lot of very good prospects while harvesting his "high RAS w/low pundit rankings" rag-tag group of DBs.

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Like I've been saying, the trade up for AVT is fine because JD got his #1 target after Zach.  I have no problem with that at all.  Love having AVT next to Becton. 

Those two will be the left side beginning of the Great Wall of Florham Park.

My problem is still what happened in round 2... and that's despite the fact that I really like this inside WR.  I'm done writing about it.  If our new slot plays lights out and we save a few million instead of our already good slot, then fine.  Perhaps they can try him a little on the outside as well.  If JD has a vision of Mahomes-to-Hill in Zach Wilson/Moore, and Douglas and Saleh are confident that's what it will be, then I'm behind it.

Day 3 was a DB abortion.  Never seen anything like it.  Douglas and Saleh have set up an open competition for multiple DB spots.  Whoever performs best in the summer and training camp will have a roster spot.  Just weird...    Never saw anything like that.  Totally disgusted while it was happening.  We'll see if this is a viable strategy when some of these DBs play well as money backer position. Douglas  passed on a lot of very good prospects while harvesting his "high RAS w/low pundit rankings" rag-tag group of DBs.

Yup, the team should have looked at 5th through 6th round talent in a diluted draft pool and made “absolute” decisions on specific players. I mean, players in those rounds, particularly in this diluted pool at the end of the draft, should be counted on to live up to our projections. This method of throwing players at a position  with the hope of finding best fit or even versatility seems cowardly. Make a damn pick at a position and expect it to be good, damn it. Asset resource was wasted through this methodology of finding diamonds in the rough. And a kicker, where was the damn kicker?

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Yup, the team should have looked at 5th through 6th round talent in a diluted draft pool and made “absolute” decisions on specific players. I mean, players in those rounds, particularly in this diluted pool at the end of the draft, should be counted on to live up to our projections. This method of throwing players at a position  with the hope of finding best fit or even versatility seems cowardly. Make a damn pick at a position and expect it to be good, damn it. Asset resource was wasted through this methodology of finding diamonds in the rough. And a kicker, where was the damn kicker?

I think they targeted specific talent to fit the system. This is going to be a multi packaged defense fast hard hitting to meet many needs. Personally I’m sick and tired of 3rd and five and they get 6. 
This is no longer one guy does it all all the time. 
 

plus all these guys will be special teamers. 
 

the kicker is in the UDFA

Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I was fine with the trade.  Does t it suck that we had to give up our early third rounder? Of course but having the luxury of having so many picks makes it easier.  Plus next year we have two firsts and two seconds so it’s fine to sacrifice some picks knowing you have 11 next year 

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, dbatesman said:

He’s right in that process-wise, giving up two 3s to move up nine spots for a guard is bad. But this is the thinnest draft in our lifetime, so maximizing your choices in the top ~50 picks is vital. If they really think AVT is a Nelson- or Martin-type player, then **** it, go for it

Plus we now all know who this guy Seth is now and that’s exactly why he made that Tweet. Well done Seth. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Shockwave said:

This.

Also we have heard from several people there was only 15 first round players this year. As you saw Jenkins was a second rounder.

That clearly has to devalue our pick. So how much is our 1.23 worth if its really valued as 2.1? or 2.10? A mid third rounder. 

That is why the value chart is just a guide. We gave up an extra 4th in value if your looking at the chart. I would do that 1000x to get the safer prospect with Pro Bowl upside. Darrisaw had medical/character red flags and was passed by SEVERAL teams needing a LT. You can not bust on first round picks. You need safe players there. Loved the deal. 

 

To add to this, hard to use the chart as an exact science when you are targeting a specific player. 
For instance I think the Darnold draft trade would be more based off the chart because you were trading for a specific pick, not a specific player compared to the AVT trade you were trading for him and him only. 
 

Your hot after a player, you do what has to be done to get that guy within reason 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Shockwave said:

Marshall was one of my favorite picks in the entire draft. 

The problem is they did not trade to get marshall.  He just happened to be there for that pick.  The trade made no sense at all value wise, seemed like a big favor to the Chiefs.  No big deal in the big scheme of things it was just weird.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jets723 said:

Personally I was fine with the trade.  Does t it suck that we had to give up our early third rounder? Of course but having the luxury of having so many picks makes it easier.  Plus next year we have two firsts and two seconds so it’s fine to sacrifice some picks knowing you have 11 next year 

I think this played a lot into it.  Getting a top G was more important than keeping the 3rd rounders, since they have a ton of picks next year.  The entire offense is different from 2 years ago.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Look at it another way.

We didn't move up for a Guard.  We moved up to create a foundation for success of the entire offense.  We turned a glaring weakness into a potentially enormous strength.  This will help not only the run and pass game overall, but will likely help McGovern be a better Center since he will hopefully have less responsibility to help to his left.  That creates a potential domino effect at improving play from the RG spot as well.

If we didn't trade up for AVT, we would be looking at either drafting Darrishaw, who would be out of position there, or the next best OG, of whom there wasn't really anyone close.  It was Slater, AVT, and then a long drop to guys like Carman (who was taken a full round later) or Davis who wasn't taken until round 3.

We needed a Guard to protect our investment in Wilson.  We got the best.  It cost us two picks who might have turned out to be good players.  Three years after investing three 2nd rounders to move up to get Sam, I am FINE with investing two 3rd rounders to give the maximum protection possible to Wilson.  

SF and CHI get passes because they traded up for QBs.  That's fine.  But I think the gap between the guy you went up and got, and the guy you would have otherwise taken, matters as much as position. 

Carman plus two 3rd rounders or AVT?  I am GOOD with AVT.

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

We made the worst move?

But no mention of what Chicago gave up? Yet Chicago get a QB, and it’s a “legendary” move, despite the fact they’re screening themselves over for future picks.

We moved up, to what we believe is the best fit to our need, and elite guard in AVT, we need that. We just picked at #2, and chose what we hope is a FQB....

let the “experts” be down on us, but we’re building positively and whether it’s a false dawn or not... it’s not a bad pick, when we still chose at 34, and kept our two first rounders and two second rounders for next year.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, ScouserJet said:

We made the worst move?

But no mention of what Chicago gave up? Yet Chicago get a QB, and it’s a “legendary” move, despite the fact they’re screening themselves over for future picks.

We moved up, to what we believe is the best fit to our need, and elite guard in AVT, we need that. We just picked at #2, and chose what we hope is a FQB....

let the “experts” be down on us, but we’re building positively and whether it’s a false dawn or not... it’s not a bad pick, when we still chose at 34, and kept our two first rounders and two second rounders for next year.

 

I actually saw something today, comparing what the jets gave up to what Chicago did.  And yeah, i think the premium for moving up for a qb is way more than for another position.  The giants correctly knew they had Chicago by the balls there.  

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, GKnight83 said:

With all due respect to the OP who I have no issue with at all...

WTF cares what Seth Walder thinks about anything?

he's not the only one who thinks this...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Seth was probably a fan of drafting Coples instead of drafting DeCastro because DeCastro is a guard.

While I like Jenkins at 23, Vera-Tucker is a future pro bowl guard and something the Jets haven’t had since Faneca.

The Jets got 3 top 20 prospects in this draft, that alone should give the Jets the highest marks from any pundit. Anyone who doesn’t see that either is trying to cause controversy or really doesn’t understand football.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, New York Mick said:

It wasn’t a good trade but they got the players they wanted 

More I think about it, I really like this way of looking at it. 

Judging the trade in isolation, it was not a good trade.  But if the pick we made iwth the 14th pick was a good pick, we will all be happy. and the trade will have worked out for us.  

I would rather make a good pick after a bad trade than a bad pick after a good trade.

Link to post
Share on other sites

#23 - I would have taken Teven Jenkins OL

#66 - I would have taken Aaron Robinson CB

#86 - I would have taken Quinn Meinerz OL

or

#14 - Alijah Vera-Tucker OL

4th rounder which after all the trade downs made turned into:

#175 Jason Pinnock - CB

#200 - Brandin Echols - CB

#207 - Jonathan Marshall - DL

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, greengeek said:

I agree with the poster that said it matters WHO you move up for and not WHERE you move up to. My understanding is that JD and Saleh had AVT charted at #7 overall. In their minds they basically traded to #7 not #14. Furthermore, OL went in the very next pick, so without the trade they would never have AVT.

The wisdom of the trade depends entirely on whether AVT pans out and nothing else.
 

Exactly. Proof is in the pudding if you will. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Bottom line is if AVT becomes a staple on this line for the next 10 years then nobody will care about those 3rd round picks we gave. But, if he stinks and Wilson stinks and Kellen Mond becomes a top QB for the Vikings thanks to us than I’m sure these message boards will be interesting lol 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m gonna go hard the opposite direction. 

This was an EXCELLENT trade for the Jets and we fleeced Minnesota. Moving up 9 spots in rd 1 without giving up a 2nd, or any pick next year? Home F’in Run.

And we got the player that we covet that fills a HUGE NEED.

take your draft chart and shove it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, jgb said:

If the Jets don’t like be “hated” they should do something about being so worthy of hate. I also judge every move with skepticism until I see some sort of results. That’s where I am with this team and I’m a lifelong fan.

I hear you. I'm very skeptic and critical of the Jets but it's tough love coming from people like you and I. I'm talking about the unusual hate from outsiders like people on national televised sports talk shows who are suppose to be neutral. But that would make it that much sweeter if they did finally win another Super Bowl.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...