Question about Saleh/LaFleur

[wediditjoe]

Hello Jet Nation - new poster here, long time reader. Let me just preface this by saying it’s an absolutely great ****in time to be a Jets fan.

Something I’ve been thinking about lately, and I haven’t seen it discussed anywhere - is our new coaching staff’s ability to develop a QB. We’ve obviously failed miserably at doing this for the past decade plus - Rex with Sanchez/Geno, Bowles with Darnold (although I thought Bates did a solid job year 1 before Gase ruined everything).

Well we finally seem to have a real deal coaching staff in place (we did it Joe!), but I’d like to hear some takes on why Saleh, and more specifically LaFleur are gonna be able to coach Wilson up to be a superstar. The arm talent is there, the cockiness/attitude is there... but will the Jets be able to buck the trend and take him to the next level?

I’m probably just scarred from years of ineptitude and I have all the confidence in the world in Saleh, but is there any valid concern that a defensive coach like him won’t be able to make Wilson great?

[Jet_Engine1]

That will be the job of LaFleur, Knapp, and Calabrese. 

[nycdan]

Not to worry.  Adam Gase left his notes and playbook behind in the head coaches' desk.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

Who knows?  As talented and highly thought of our coaching staff is, it's their first time doing this.

 

Ask me again in three years and I'll have a more qualified answer for you.

[RedBeardedSavage]

I can't speak on the coaching as we haven't seen anything yet, but surrounding a rookie quarterback with talent is by far the best plan of action for development. 

Vera-Tucker, Moore, Carter and Corey Davis. I think that's four immediate impact upgrades on offense. 

 

[Alka]

5 minutes ago, wediditjoe said:

Hello Jet Nation - new poster here, long time reader. Let me just preface this by saying it’s an absolutely great ****in time to be a Jets fan.

Something I’ve been thinking about lately, and I haven’t seen it discussed anywhere - is our new coaching staff’s ability to develop a QB. We’ve obviously failed miserably at doing this for the past decade plus - Rex with Sanchez/Geno, Bowles with Darnold (although I thought Bates did a solid job year 1 before Gase ruined everything).

Well we finally seem to have a real deal coaching staff in place (we did it Joe!), but I’d like to hear some takes on why Saleh, and more specifically LaFleur are gonna be able to coach Wilson up to be a superstar. The arm talent is there, the cockiness/attitude is there... but will the Jets be able to buck the trend and take him to the next level?

I’m probably just scarred from years of ineptitude and I have all the confidence in the world in Saleh, but is there any valid concern that a defensive coach like him won’t be able to make Wilson great?

Welcome to Jet Nation!!  

Please understand that I am not an expert here, but my understanding is that the offensive system being put in place takes pressure off of the QB.  This system allows throwing to running backs, tight ends, wide receivers, slot receivers, and allowing the playmakers to catch the ball on short throws, seam routes, and allowing them to make yards after the catch (YAC).  A west coast type of offense.

LeFleur is widely considered to be a QB friendly coach who has a great understanding of the system, and Saleh is being heralded as a players coach, who is tough and expects his players to work very hard on improving and going hard.

With a capable offensive line which we now hope we will have, and new players who can help the QB with quick throws and getting open, there seems to be hope.

If anyone thinks I am not accurate here, please do not hesitate to correct me on this.

[joewilly12]

4 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Not to worry.  Adam Gase left his notes and playbook behind in the head coaches' desk.

Not so funny thing it seems no matter who the HC is we run the same damn rotten crummy plays. 

1st down hand-offs. 

3rd and long draw plays. 

3rd and long we need 10 throw a 2 year pass. 

I hope this all changes. 

[DetroitRed]

Gase was always throwing on first down

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, DetroitRed said:

Gase was always throwing on first down

I seem to remember hand-offs to Frank Gore. 

[wediditjoe]

19 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Not so funny thing it seems no matter who the HC is we run the same damn rotten crummy plays. 

1st down hand-offs. 

3rd and long draw plays. 

3rd and long we need 10 throw a 2 year pass. 

I hope this all changes. 

Hahah I’m literally traumatized from those offensive sequences. Still can’t believe that was our HC for 2 years.

[Wit]

He’s been learning at the feet of Kyle Shanahan for quite some time. Saleh scooped him up and he’s like 33. The Jets are not yet a welL oiled QB machine; but they know how to work with the QB they had. 

[doitny]

4 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

I seem to remember hand-offs to Frank Gore. 

i really wish i could get some closure on that. was there some handshake deal or something in the contract that had Gore as the #2 then #1 RB so he could get his 16,000 yards? otherwise that was horrible coaching  by Gase.. if i were him i would let us know that it was forced upon him to hand it to Gore so many times and not give the young guys a chance.

[ncjetman]

a zone blocking scheme that hopefully works - running plays that get yards off of that scheme - play action ( which we’ve seen so little of recently) and then a chunk pass play and theoretically we have an effective and efficient offensive game plan - course as mike tyson said everyone has a plan until you get hit in the face - i’m pretty optimistic though


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Jackie Treehorn]

36 minutes ago, wediditjoe said:

Hello Jet Nation - new poster here, long time reader. Let me just preface this by saying it’s an absolutely great ****in time to be a Jets fan.

Something I’ve been thinking about lately, and I haven’t seen it discussed anywhere - is our new coaching staff’s ability to develop a QB. We’ve obviously failed miserably at doing this for the past decade plus - Rex with Sanchez/Geno, Bowles with Darnold (although I thought Bates did a solid job year 1 before Gase ruined everything).

Well we finally seem to have a real deal coaching staff in place (we did it Joe!), but I’d like to hear some takes on why Saleh, and more specifically LaFleur are gonna be able to coach Wilson up to be a superstar. The arm talent is there, the cockiness/attitude is there... but will the Jets be able to buck the trend and take him to the next level?

I’m probably just scarred from years of ineptitude and I have all the confidence in the world in Saleh, but is there any valid concern that a defensive coach like him won’t be able to make Wilson 

[wediditjoe]

23 minutes ago, Alka said:

Welcome to Jet Nation!!  

Please understand that I am not an expert here, but my understanding is that the offensive system being put in place takes pressure off of the QB.  This system allows throwing to running backs, tight ends, wide receivers, slot receivers, and allowing the playmakers to catch the ball on short throws, seam routes, and allowing them to make yards after the catch (YAC).  A west coast type of offense.

LeFleur is widely considered to be a QB friendly coach who has a great understanding of the system, and Saleh is being heralded as a players coach, who is tough and expects his players to work very hard on improving and going hard.

With a capable offensive line which we now hope we will have, and new players who can help the QB with quick throws and getting open, there seems to be hope.

If anyone thinks I am not accurate here, please do not hesitate to correct me on this.

Sounds perfect for a rookie QB, and sounds like the kind of system Darnold could’ve been successful in had we used it to start his career.

[wediditjoe]

1 minute ago, Jackie Treehorn said:

Lol that’s how low the bar is set. Legit coaching/gm duo and 4 offensive draft picks in a row = what a time to be alive in Jet Nation!!!

[flgreen]

21 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

Gase was always throwing on first down

In 2020 Jets were 27th in throwing on 1st down at 54%

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/passing-first-down-pct

[AlexVanDyke]

34 minutes ago, Alka said:

Welcome to Jet Nation!!  

Please understand that I am not an expert here, but my understanding is that the offensive system being put in place takes pressure off of the QB.  This system allows throwing to running backs, tight ends, wide receivers, slot receivers, and allowing the playmakers to catch the ball on short throws, seam routes, and allowing them to make yards after the catch (YAC).  A west coast type of offense.

LeFleur is widely considered to be a QB friendly coach who has a great understanding of the system, and Saleh is being heralded as a players coach, who is tough and expects his players to work very hard on improving and going hard.

With a capable offensive line which we now hope we will have, and new players who can help the QB with quick throws and getting open, there seems to be hope.

If anyone thinks I am not accurate here, please do not hesitate to correct me on this.

This is a good summary.  It’s why we also need o linemen that are athletic and can make plays and blocks down field to allow for the YAC.  Saleh has repeated the guys will be open and the plays will be there for Wilson to make. 
 

another thing of note is the whole coach we hired has an excellent reputation.  He in fact coached Steve young back in the day and young said I would want him teaching my son how to play the Qb position.

[32EBoozer]

1 hour ago, wediditjoe said:

’m probably just scarred from years of ineptitude and I have all the confidence in the world in Saleh, but is there any valid concern that a defensive coach like him won’t be able to make Wilson great?

Jim Harbaugh made his bones on ST. Mike Tomlin DB coach. I see Saleh making the transition to HC similar to these two future HOF coaches   
 

He’s the man who’s going to bring all the coaches together and formulate the game plan based on the film he’s poring over. Offensively we can attack this area of our opponents weakness. LaFleaur Formulates the game plan and Saleh makes suggestions before finalizing. Same with Ulbrecht on Defense. “There are some wholes in their personnel that we can overload to get penetration we should try that”

Then on game day he leads his team against middle earth!

He will also be the one to call for adjustments when he feels momentum shifting or the game getting away. He takes control and rolls out “The Philly Special “ if there needs to be a big play!

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by 32EBoozer

[Long Island Leprechaun]

50 minutes ago, Alka said:

Welcome to Jet Nation!!  

Please understand that I am not an expert here, but my understanding is that the offensive system being put in place takes pressure off of the QB.  This system allows throwing to running backs, tight ends, wide receivers, slot receivers, and allowing the playmakers to catch the ball on short throws, seam routes, and allowing them to make yards after the catch (YAC).  A west coast type of offense.

LeFleur is widely considered to be a QB friendly coach who has a great understanding of the system, and Saleh is being heralded as a players coach, who is tough and expects his players to work very hard on improving and going hard.

With a capable offensive line which we now hope we will have, and new players who can help the QB with quick throws and getting open, there seems to be hope.

If anyone thinks I am not accurate here, please do not hesitate to correct me on this.

You're completely wrong. 

 

Just kidding.... well said.

[DetroitRed]

26 minutes ago, flgreen said:

In 2020 Jets were 27th in throwing on 1st down at 54%

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/passing-first-down-pct

And do the year before

[David Harris]

Knapp is key. Steve Young sings his praises and says that if he had a son he would would Knapp to develop him.  
 

We have an easy system for offensive guys to learn including the QB.  There aren’t route options at the top of breaks. The play is the play and you run it- if you’re open you get the ball of not that means someone else will be. The QB progressions are straightforward and many of the plays are the same as what BYU ran.

We have a legit good receiving core and an improved OL.

Zach is in a good place. He’s perfect for this system and has good coaches and quality players around him.

[Jet_Engine1]

26 minutes ago, AlexVanDyke said:

This is a good summary.  It’s why we also need o linemen that are athletic and can make plays and blocks down field to allow for the YAC.  Saleh has repeated the guys will be open and the plays will be there for Wilson to make. 
 

another thing of note is the whole coach we hired has an excellent reputation.  He in fact coached Steve young back in the day and young said I would want him teaching my son how to play the Qb position.

You mean Greg Knapp. He's a great hire for this young staff. I know Rob Calabrese is listed as QB Coach, but I really hope Knapp is taking the lead in the development of Wilson. He's been all over, worked with a lot of good QBs, and knows his stuff. 

[Beerfish]

Only time will tell but so far the difference is that the new coach seems to be aware that you need a good offense to win the ultimate prize.  He was actually excited talking about Moore and Carter picks and his convo with Zac Wilson after he was drafted was brilliant.  Rex was disdainful off his offense at times.  Bowles had no clue.

As for Gase, lets just not talk about him.

[jeremy2020]

52 minutes ago, wediditjoe said:

Hahah I’m literally traumatized from those offensive sequences. Still can’t believe that was our HC for 2 years.

still can't believe the number of people (on this forum) who up until this season thought he was a good coach

[AlexVanDyke]

10 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

still can't believe the number of people (on this forum) who up until this season thought he was a good coach

I think there is a lot of blame to go around.  Gase is an easy scapegoat for the bulk of it but goes a lot deeper 

[Big_Slick]

1 hour ago, doitny said:

i really wish i could get some closure on that. was there some handshake deal or something in the contract that had Gore as the #2 then #1 RB so he could get his 16,000 yards? otherwise that was horrible coaching  by Gase.. if i were him i would let us know that it was forced upon him to hand it to Gore so many times and not give the young guys a chance.

Once Gase knew he was history his main goals were to get Gore his 16K yards and to make sure the Jets didn't get the #1 OA pick.

[munchmemory]

1 hour ago, nycdan said:

Not to worry.  Adam Gase left his notes and playbook behind in the head coaches' desk.

I left bits of my spleen, and other internal organs, watching that dope execute his playbook every week.

[nycdan]

1 hour ago, DetroitRed said:

Gase was always throwing on first down

Judging from the results, it seems like it WAS Gase throwing the ball.

[C Mart]

1 hour ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Who knows?  As talented and highly thought of our coaching staff is, it's their first time doing this.

It’s not Knapp’s 

[Cyberjet]

2 hours ago, wediditjoe said:

Hello Jet Nation - new poster here, long time reader. Let me just preface this by saying it’s an absolutely great ****in time to be a Jets fan.

Something I’ve been thinking about lately, and I haven’t seen it discussed anywhere - is our new coaching staff’s ability to develop a QB. We’ve obviously failed miserably at doing this for the past decade plus - Rex with Sanchez/Geno, Bowles with Darnold (although I thought Bates did a solid job year 1 before Gase ruined everything).

Well we finally seem to have a real deal coaching staff in place (we did it Joe!), but I’d like to hear some takes on why Saleh, and more specifically LaFleur are gonna be able to coach Wilson up to be a superstar. The arm talent is there, the cockiness/attitude is there... but will the Jets be able to buck the trend and take him to the next level?

I’m probably just scarred from years of ineptitude and I have all the confidence in the world in Saleh, but is there any valid concern that a defensive coach like him won’t be able to make Wilson great?

More than anything is the support and system that will be in place for Wilson. In my opinion Wilson has all the tools and is set up for success with this system. If Wilson doesn’t succeed it’s on him.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

Good coaching and being surrounded by talent helps to "develop" a QB, but my hot take is that good quarterbacks are either going to develop or they are not. One of the exceptions to the rule is when Patton Oswalt is your OC. 

In my opinion, Zach Wilson has been provided with at least the bare minimum for developing into a good or great QB. The built in excuses have been removed. The organization from owner to head coach is seemingly harmonious. The offense, including Zach has been upgraded to respectable. The ball will be both figuratively and literally in his hands. 

[Jetstream]

19 hours ago, David Harris said:

Knapp is key. Steve Young sings his praises and says that if he had a son he would would Knapp to develop him.  
 

We have an easy system for offensive guys to learn including the QB.  There aren’t route options at the top of breaks. The play is the play and you run it- if you’re open you get the ball of not that means someone else will be. The QB progressions are straightforward and many of the plays are the same as what BYU ran.

We have a legit good receiving core and an improved OL.

Zach is in a good place. He’s perfect for this system and has good coaches and quality players around him.

Agreed on Knapp and as good as it is to nice to have someone with LeFleur's pedigree, but the way this NFL works IF the Jet's  offense takes off this year he could easily be gone in a year or 2, so to me it's great to hear Saleh on calls and in press conferences discussing offense schemes and things with ease, he's not one of these Defense only guys, from what I can see.  And we'll need that.

[Warfish]

20 hours ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Who knows?  As talented and highly thought of our coaching staff is, it's their first time doing this.

Ask me again in three years and I'll have a more qualified answer for you.

This.

[Alka]

19 hours ago, Big_Slick said:

Once Gase knew he was history his main goals were to get Gore his 16K yards and to make sure the Jets didn't get the #1 OA pick.

It's interesting that you say that.  It seems that the only decision Gase made was to fire the defensive coordinator after he blew the Jets 1st win with the bonehead coverage at the end of the Raiders game.  Gase really wanted that first win, and screw up the #1 draft pick for the Jets.