Arm Length, OT Class and the Seattle Defense

[Shockwave]

Watched the draft now for about 20 years or so. Never before did I realize there is this magical number for arm length. 

That Magical number is 34. 

To be a offensive tackle in this league you need to have arms that measure that long or damn close to it. How important is it?

1- While many thought this was a deep offensive line class. You may have heard Daniel Jeremiah state peoples grades where everywhere. I think it was one of his tweets say some people had leatherwood as a 1st rounder where others had him as a 4th rounder. Why? Because of arm length. 

2-Many of the top guys played tackle in college this year but had 32 inch arms. Perhaps they could be an outlier at LT/RT but chances are they would have to move inside. This is the case even for AVT but then goes guys like Eichenberg(Miami) who was drafted as a RT but really may be forced to move inside. 

3-Why did the Colts pass on Darrisaw and all these other lineman? If you go look up Ballards comments he said it was extremely questionable if any of these guys can stick at Left tackle. Many bc of arm length and others bc of play style. Any of those that think the Vikings did well in the trade down with us: Ask yourself this: If Darrisaw can't stick at LT how bad is that trade going to look for them? The answer is horrible. And the Colts GM who is a damn stud passed on Darrisaw even with a HUGE need at the LT spot because he questioned if he could stick there. 

 4-The arm length questions, styles of play and covid season is just the reasons this year you saw picks like Leatherwood go in R1 as he had 34+inch arms where so many didn't. It was just an odd class. They all had long arms last year in that epic run for ex Andrew Thomas (36.5) and Becton 35 5/8. 

 

The Seattle Defense /Cowboys Draft Class 

I noticed the Cowboys got bigger guys and when you read into it goes back to Dan Quinn and the Seattle Defense. Back to that Magic number of 34. 

https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/cowboys/2021/05/01/dan-quinn-draft-or-not-after-cowboys-last-three-days-this-is-unmistakably-dan-quinns-defense/

Quote

Among other traits, Quinn values length in players. Well, the team signed three defensive linemen in free agency. Tarell Basham, Brent Urban and Carlos Watkins have something in common: Their arm length measures at least 34 inches.

In the third round Friday, the Cowboys drafted defensive linemen Osa Odighizuwa and Chauncey Golston. In the sixth round Saturday, they chose nose tackle Quinton Bohanna. Each boasts arm length of at least 34 inches.

This trend is not the Cowboys of old. It is the Cowboys of Quinn.

Length here is emphasized more.

“First, let’s talk first with the big guys in the run game,” Quinn said. “When you get a chance to lock somebody out, now you can create that separation to go defend and make a tackle. A guy like Brent Urban [341/4 inches] has that ability to get somebody locked out or Carlos [34 5/8 inches] in that space.

“As a pass rusher, obviously, whoever you’re going against are some guys with long arms. Certainly, a tackle. That’s no big secret. That type of hand-to-hand combat, when you have the length, you can do that. And then out on the perimeter, whether you’re at linebacker or at safety, you need to have the ability to guard the big tight ends. … So I think it shows up all over.”

Quinn followed with an important point.

Length is not the end all, be all to successful defensive play.

That is good news for most players on the Cowboys’ roster that Quinn inherited. For matter of comparison, staying on the defensive line, recent draft picks Neville Gallimore (323/4 inches), Bradlee Anae (321/8 inches) and Trysten Hill (333/8 inches) don’t pass the must-be-34-inches-in-order-to-ride threshold. Nose tackle Antwaun Woods is not close.

 

So how does this relate to the Jets 

Apparently this was a big thing for our draft class as this is a Robert Saleh's thing just like Dan Quinn as we will be running that Seattle D. 

Right after we drafted Sherwood and hamsah nasirildeen the first thing we likely all thought is: This is very different for the Jets. 

Both have arm lengths over 34. Its super apparent when you watch these guys they play big. Do these guys kind of remind anyone of a poor mans Kam Chancellor? Yea they do. 

Pinnock has very long arms for his size with a big vertical and was a WR. He was drafted by us in the 5th round. That sound like anyone elses story you know? Yea - Thats Richard Shermans exact story and exactly when he was drafted. 

So Gentleman while the Jets may not be speaking much of this please note we are absolutely attempting to make our version of the Legion of Boom on defense. Perhaps the above guys bust but you can clearly see the type of players we will want moving forward year to year.  

Except Joe Douglas is going to put his spin on it - He's going to get long players with extremely high character/High RAS and we are going to trade down a ton so we have multiple lottery tickets on this sort of player. I absolutely love it. 

With two picks in essentially every round next year, infinite money to spend and a clear direction moving forward I would like to tell those guys that love to be negative and half glass empty - You really may want to sit back, have the drink of your choosing and really enjoy the ride moving forward. Best position/direction I have ever seen us in. 

[docdhc]

16 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

Watched the draft now for about 20 years or so. Never before did I realize there is this magical number for arm length. 

That Magical number is 34. 

To be a offensive tackle in this league you need to have arms that measure that long or damn close to it. How important is it?

1- While many thought this was a deep offensive line class. You may have heard Daniel Jeremiah state peoples grades where everywhere. I think it was one of his tweets say some people had leatherwood as a 1st rounder where others had him as a 4th rounder. Why? Because of arm length. 

2-Many of the top guys played tackle in college this year but had 32 inch arms. Perhaps they could be an outlier at LT/RT but chances are they would have to move inside. This is the case even for AVT but then goes guys like Eichenberg(Miami) who was drafted as a RT but really may be forced to move inside. 

3-Why did the Colts pass on Darrisaw and all these other lineman? If you go look up Ballards comments he said it was extremely questionable if any of these guys can stick at Left tackle. Many bc of arm length and others bc of play style. Any of those that think the Vikings did well in the trade down with us: Ask yourself this: If Darrisaw can't stick at LT how bad is that trade going to look for them? The answer is horrible. And the Colts GM who is a damn stud passed on Darrisaw even with a HUGE need at the LT spot because he questioned if he could stick there. 

 4-The arm length questions, styles of play and covid season is just the reasons this year you saw picks like Leatherwood go in R1 as he had 34+inch arms where so many didn't. It was just an odd class. They all had long arms last year in that epic run for ex Andrew Thomas (36.5) and Becton 35 5/8. 

 

The Seattle Defense /Cowboys Draft Class 

I noticed the Cowboys got bigger guys and when you read into it goes back to Dan Quinn and the Seattle Defense. Back to that Magic number of 34. 

https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/cowboys/2021/05/01/dan-quinn-draft-or-not-after-cowboys-last-three-days-this-is-unmistakably-dan-quinns-defense/

 

So how does this relate to the Jets 

Apparently this was a big thing for our draft class as this is a Robert Saleh's thing just like Dan Quinn as we will be running that Seattle D. 

Right after we drafted Sherwood and hamsah nasirildeen the first thing we likely all thought is: This is very different for the Jets. 

Both have arm lengths over 34. Its super apparent when you watch these guys they play big. Do these guys kind of remind anyone of a poor mans Kam Chancellor? Yea they do. 

Pinnock has very long arms for his size with a big vertical and was a WR. He was drafted by us in the 5th round. That sound like anyone elses story you know? Yea - Thats Richard Shermans exact story and exactly when he was drafted. 

So Gentleman while the Jets may not be speaking much of this please note we are absolutely attempting to make our version of the Legion of Boom on defense. Perhaps the above guys bust but you can clearly see the type of players we will want moving forward year to year.  

Except Joe Douglas is going to put his spin on it - He's going to get long players with extremely high character/High RAS and we are going to trade down a ton so we have multiple lottery tickets on this sort of player. I absolutely love it. 

With two picks in essentially every round next year, infinite money to spend and a clear direction moving forward I would like to tell those guys that love to be negative and half glass empty - You really may want to sit back, have the drink of your choosing and really enjoy the ride moving forward. Best position/direction I have ever seen us in. 

Very nice write up. Getting A Kam Chancellor and Richard Sherman type defensive backfield would be awfully nice. We can dream at least for a change. 

[Shockwave]

2 hours ago, docdhc said:

Very nice write up. Getting A Kam Chancellor and Richard Sherman type defensive backfield would be awfully nice. We can dream at least for a change. 

Excited about both. I wonder if we can get them both on the field at the same time. 

Also those type of players need a Marcus Maye playing deep.  

[Sammybighead]

I've always known this for OTs but it's interesting regarding the DBs

[bitonti]

Arm length is like qb height it's nice to have but not a deal breaker 

The best tackle of all time Joe Thomas had 32.5 arms 

Chuma edoga has nearly 36 inchers and he sucks 

Hand placement, strength and timing are more important than the arm length 

 

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, Sammybighead said:

I've always known this for OTs but it's interesting regarding the DBs

makes sense since you just need to tip a pass not intercept it most of the time. 

[Biggs]

This is why King Kong plays offensive and Godzilla plays Defense.  

[kdels62]

Robert Saleh said early on that the defense will be very different from what the Seahawks run.

That being said Douglas puts premiums on athleticism especially for later round guys. Douglas does seem to like 32 inch arms on his CBs. Nasirildeen and Sherwood both lack great measurable athleticism, I like their game speed but they are outliers in Douglas’s usual methodology.

[#27TheDominator]

Very different for the Jets?  That ****sucker Maccagnan took Leonard Williams partially based on arm length and laughed at Pepper Johnson for wanting Grady Jarrett in the 5th.  These rules are nice when they work.  When they don't, they suck and limit you.  I think using length as a big contributor can help you find value, but when everybody does it, it loses the edge.

Quote

[laughs] Okay. But Leonard fell to you guys. The whole world thought he’d get taken in the top three, but you guys got him at six. 

The whole world except Pepper. Leonard wasn’t the No. 1 guy on my to-do list. I had him as a first-round pick and all that, and I was more than happy to get him. But the style of defense that we did, or that we were doing, he did not fall into that category for me to be that No. 1.

How did he not fit?

When I was hired there I was told that we were going to be a stunting defensive line. So in my mind I needed to find guys that stunt well, and to my evaluations of guys that stunted well was [Grady Jarrett] from Clemson, that the Falcons took [in the fifth round]. There’s a reason why I’m saying his name specifically. We get into a pre-draft discussion, and we’re talking about defensive ends’ arm length. And I’m semi-mad because a scout is telling me ... this guy’s trying to tell me that the defensive linemen need long arms like the offensive linemen, or they’ll never be able to beat them—the offensive lineman’s just going to hold them off. And I said, ‘Well, with all due respect, I don’t know what defensive line coaches that you’ve worked with have told you beforehand, but I teach from the ground to the man’s chest. And the guy can bring their hands from the ground to the chest the fastest are going to win the battle.’ That’s how I teach: We’re going to attack him, and offensive linemen are allowing us to do this now, because of where the game is going—they don’t get down in a stance no more, so they automatically are up, especially the offensive tackles. And he laughed at me, like, ‘He don’t know about arm length?’ And I lit off into them and everybody was, like, ‘Pep, why you do him like that?’ And, like, hey, the guy wants to smirk at me and act like he knows more about football than I do!

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by #27TheDominator
Why doesn't the profanity filter block ****? See?!?! That's the 2nd time I had to do it myself! @max, this thing sucks. Bring back A****er!

[nycdan]

14 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Arm length is like qb height it's nice to have but not a deal breaker 

The best tackle of all time Joe Thomas had 32.5 arms 

 

That's a bold, if not borderline silly take.  Top-10 absolutely.  Best all-time?  As in you would take him over Ogden, Munoz, Pace, Jones and some of the older guys who it's harder to compare to?  I know you'll defend it to your dying breath, but I think you'd be in a slender minority on that one.

[#27TheDominator]

3 minutes ago, nycdan said:

That's a bold, if not borderline silly take.  Top-10 absolutely.  Best all-time?  As in you would take him over Ogden, Munoz, Pace, Jones and some of the older guys who it's harder to compare to?  I know you'll defend it to your dying breath, but I think you'd be in a slender minority on that one.

So you'd have passed on Joe Thomas, or forced him to move inside? 

[GreenReaper]

4 hours ago, Shockwave said:

Watched the draft now for about 20 years or so. Never before did I realize there is this magical number for arm length. 

That Magical number is 34. 

To be a offensive tackle in this league you need to have arms that measure that long or damn close to it. How important is it?

1- While many thought this was a deep offensive line class. You may have heard Daniel Jeremiah state peoples grades where everywhere. I think it was one of his tweets say some people had leatherwood as a 1st rounder where others had him as a 4th rounder. Why? Because of arm length. 

2-Many of the top guys played tackle in college this year but had 32 inch arms. Perhaps they could be an outlier at LT/RT but chances are they would have to move inside. This is the case even for AVT but then goes guys like Eichenberg(Miami) who was drafted as a RT but really may be forced to move inside. 

3-Why did the Colts pass on Darrisaw and all these other lineman? If you go look up Ballards comments he said it was extremely questionable if any of these guys can stick at Left tackle. Many bc of arm length and others bc of play style. Any of those that think the Vikings did well in the trade down with us: Ask yourself this: If Darrisaw can't stick at LT how bad is that trade going to look for them? The answer is horrible. And the Colts GM who is a damn stud passed on Darrisaw even with a HUGE need at the LT spot because he questioned if he could stick there. 

 4-The arm length questions, styles of play and covid season is just the reasons this year you saw picks like Leatherwood go in R1 as he had 34+inch arms where so many didn't. It was just an odd class. They all had long arms last year in that epic run for ex Andrew Thomas (36.5) and Becton 35 5/8. 

 

The Seattle Defense /Cowboys Draft Class 

I noticed the Cowboys got bigger guys and when you read into it goes back to Dan Quinn and the Seattle Defense. Back to that Magic number of 34. 

https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/cowboys/2021/05/01/dan-quinn-draft-or-not-after-cowboys-last-three-days-this-is-unmistakably-dan-quinns-defense/

 

So how does this relate to the Jets 

Apparently this was a big thing for our draft class as this is a Robert Saleh's thing just like Dan Quinn as we will be running that Seattle D. 

Right after we drafted Sherwood and hamsah nasirildeen the first thing we likely all thought is: This is very different for the Jets. 

Both have arm lengths over 34. Its super apparent when you watch these guys they play big. Do these guys kind of remind anyone of a poor mans Kam Chancellor? Yea they do. 

Pinnock has very long arms for his size with a big vertical and was a WR. He was drafted by us in the 5th round. That sound like anyone elses story you know? Yea - Thats Richard Shermans exact story and exactly when he was drafted. 

So Gentleman while the Jets may not be speaking much of this please note we are absolutely attempting to make our version of the Legion of Boom on defense. Perhaps the above guys bust but you can clearly see the type of players we will want moving forward year to year.  

Except Joe Douglas is going to put his spin on it - He's going to get long players with extremely high character/High RAS and we are going to trade down a ton so we have multiple lottery tickets on this sort of player. I absolutely love it. 

With two picks in essentially every round next year, infinite money to spend and a clear direction moving forward I would like to tell those guys that love to be negative and half glass empty - You really may want to sit back, have the drink of your choosing and really enjoy the ride moving forward. Best position/direction I have ever seen us in. 

?

 

[jetstream23]

3 hours ago, Shockwave said:

Watched the draft now for about 20 years or so. Never before did I realize there is this magical number for arm length. 

That Magical number is 34. 

To be a offensive tackle in this league you need to have arms that measure that long or damn close to it. How important is it?

1- While many thought this was a deep offensive line class. You may have heard Daniel Jeremiah state peoples grades where everywhere. I think it was one of his tweets say some people had leatherwood as a 1st rounder where others had him as a 4th rounder. Why? Because of arm length. 

2-Many of the top guys played tackle in college this year but had 32 inch arms. Perhaps they could be an outlier at LT/RT but chances are they would have to move inside. This is the case even for AVT but then goes guys like Eichenberg(Miami) who was drafted as a RT but really may be forced to move inside. 

3-Why did the Colts pass on Darrisaw and all these other lineman? If you go look up Ballards comments he said it was extremely questionable if any of these guys can stick at Left tackle. Many bc of arm length and others bc of play style. Any of those that think the Vikings did well in the trade down with us: Ask yourself this: If Darrisaw can't stick at LT how bad is that trade going to look for them? The answer is horrible. And the Colts GM who is a damn stud passed on Darrisaw even with a HUGE need at the LT spot because he questioned if he could stick there. 

 4-The arm length questions, styles of play and covid season is just the reasons this year you saw picks like Leatherwood go in R1 as he had 34+inch arms where so many didn't. It was just an odd class. They all had long arms last year in that epic run for ex Andrew Thomas (36.5) and Becton 35 5/8. 

 

The Seattle Defense /Cowboys Draft Class 

I noticed the Cowboys got bigger guys and when you read into it goes back to Dan Quinn and the Seattle Defense. Back to that Magic number of 34. 

https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/cowboys/2021/05/01/dan-quinn-draft-or-not-after-cowboys-last-three-days-this-is-unmistakably-dan-quinns-defense/

 

So how does this relate to the Jets 

Apparently this was a big thing for our draft class as this is a Robert Saleh's thing just like Dan Quinn as we will be running that Seattle D. 

Right after we drafted Sherwood and hamsah nasirildeen the first thing we likely all thought is: This is very different for the Jets. 

Both have arm lengths over 34. Its super apparent when you watch these guys they play big. Do these guys kind of remind anyone of a poor mans Kam Chancellor? Yea they do. 

Pinnock has very long arms for his size with a big vertical and was a WR. He was drafted by us in the 5th round. That sound like anyone elses story you know? Yea - Thats Richard Shermans exact story and exactly when he was drafted. 

So Gentleman while the Jets may not be speaking much of this please note we are absolutely attempting to make our version of the Legion of Boom on defense. Perhaps the above guys bust but you can clearly see the type of players we will want moving forward year to year.  

Except Joe Douglas is going to put his spin on it - He's going to get long players with extremely high character/High RAS and we are going to trade down a ton so we have multiple lottery tickets on this sort of player. I absolutely love it. 

With two picks in essentially every round next year, infinite money to spend and a clear direction moving forward I would like to tell those guys that love to be negative and half glass empty - You really may want to sit back, have the drink of your choosing and really enjoy the ride moving forward. Best position/direction I have ever seen us in. 

 

Excellent post.  The Jets seem willing to take on guys who physically fit the mold they want but perhaps had other factors pushing them into the later rounds (less than ideal production, playing a different position, small school, not in a great system, etc.).  But what I think the Jets feel they can do, particularly Saleh, is develop!  That's the key.  Saleh can't teach them to have 34" arms or to run a 4.3 40-yard, but he can teach them coverages, he can teach technique, and he can put them in positions to do the things they do well.

A lot of guys stick around this league for a long time simply because they find a niche in the right system and they play smart.  If the Jets feel like their 5th+ round guys are at least smart enough to learn their assignments and to diagnose plays then this could turn out well.  Remember, we don't need to hit on all of them.  Turning just one or two of these guys into starters on D would be a big accomplishment in a Draft where the Jets focused heavily on offense.  I just have to imagine that at least one of Sherwood, Nasirildeen, Michael Carter II, Pinnock, etc. will be a hit.  If more than one succeeds then the Jets are in great shape.

[bitonti]

38 minutes ago, nycdan said:

That's a bold, if not borderline silly take.  Top-10 absolutely.  Best all-time?  As in you would take him over Ogden, Munoz, Pace, Jones and some of the older guys who it's harder to compare to?  I know you'll defend it to your dying breath, but I think you'd be in a slender minority on that one.

I meant to say arguably. He's arguably the best ever. It's not a hill I want to die on but he's top 5 easy maybe even top 3 easy 

Ogden and Munoz have 11 pro bowls, joe Thomas made 10. Jones 9 and pace 7. Orlando pace was a Jim brown type in that he dominated but his career was not as long as the others. It depends on how much one factors in durability 

 

[#27TheDominator]

FWIW, I usually pick for Seattle and their DB rules are pretty well known.  Pinnock was one of the top guys that fit their profile. 

which-cornerbacks-pass-seahawks-athletic-measurable-thresholds

Quote

In total, only two prospects have 32-inch or longer arms and pass the thresholds for all six athletic tests: Syracuse's Ifeatu Melifonwu and Pittsburgh's Jason Pinnock.

 

[C Mart]

53 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

So you'd have passed on Joe Thomas, or forced him to move inside? 

Did he say that?  He just questioned Joe Thomas being called the greatest of all time

[nycdan]

20 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I meant to say arguably. He's arguably the best ever. It's not a hill I want to die on but he's top 5 easy maybe even top 3 easy 

Ogden and Munoz have 11 pro bowls, joe Thomas made 10. Jones 9 and pace 7. Orlando pace was a Jim brown type in that he dominated but his career was not as long as the others. It depends on how much one factors in durability 

 

All completely fair.  I'm hesitant to use pro bowls as much of a factor other than to generally filter down a list of contenders.  For me, a five year period of dominance is enough to say "that's the guy I want on my all-time team" but that's definitely my own particular perspective.  That's why I'd take Earl Campbell over any RB not named Jim Brown.  I think Jones and Pace might have been more dominant at their peaks, and I'm pretty comfortable saying that Ogden and Munoz were, at least by a thin margin, but it's pretty hard to compare OTs anyway so I'm open to just saying they were all great and if Becton turns out to be comparable we will be very, very fortunate.

[nycdan]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

So you'd have passed on Joe Thomas, or forced him to move inside? 

Of course not.  But I don't think he was the best OT of all time.  I think Bit and I have sorted that out.

[Flightattendant]

4 hours ago, Shockwave said:

Watched the draft now for about 20 years or so. Never before did I realize there is this magical number for arm length. 

That Magical number is 34. 

To be a offensive tackle in this league you need to have arms that measure that long or damn close to it. How important is it?

1- While many thought this was a deep offensive line class. You may have heard Daniel Jeremiah state peoples grades where everywhere. I think it was one of his tweets say some people had leatherwood as a 1st rounder where others had him as a 4th rounder. Why? Because of arm length. 

2-Many of the top guys played tackle in college this year but had 32 inch arms. Perhaps they could be an outlier at LT/RT but chances are they would have to move inside. This is the case even for AVT but then goes guys like Eichenberg(Miami) who was drafted as a RT but really may be forced to move inside. 

3-Why did the Colts pass on Darrisaw and all these other lineman? If you go look up Ballards comments he said it was extremely questionable if any of these guys can stick at Left tackle. Many bc of arm length and others bc of play style. Any of those that think the Vikings did well in the trade down with us: Ask yourself this: If Darrisaw can't stick at LT how bad is that trade going to look for them? The answer is horrible. And the Colts GM who is a damn stud passed on Darrisaw even with a HUGE need at the LT spot because he questioned if he could stick there. 

 4-The arm length questions, styles of play and covid season is just the reasons this year you saw picks like Leatherwood go in R1 as he had 34+inch arms where so many didn't. It was just an odd class. They all had long arms last year in that epic run for ex Andrew Thomas (36.5) and Becton 35 5/8. 

 

The Seattle Defense /Cowboys Draft Class 

I noticed the Cowboys got bigger guys and when you read into it goes back to Dan Quinn and the Seattle Defense. Back to that Magic number of 34. 

https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/cowboys/2021/05/01/dan-quinn-draft-or-not-after-cowboys-last-three-days-this-is-unmistakably-dan-quinns-defense/

 

So how does this relate to the Jets 

Apparently this was a big thing for our draft class as this is a Robert Saleh's thing just like Dan Quinn as we will be running that Seattle D. 

Right after we drafted Sherwood and hamsah nasirildeen the first thing we likely all thought is: This is very different for the Jets. 

Both have arm lengths over 34. Its super apparent when you watch these guys they play big. Do these guys kind of remind anyone of a poor mans Kam Chancellor? Yea they do. 

Pinnock has very long arms for his size with a big vertical and was a WR. He was drafted by us in the 5th round. That sound like anyone elses story you know? Yea - Thats Richard Shermans exact story and exactly when he was drafted. 

So Gentleman while the Jets may not be speaking much of this please note we are absolutely attempting to make our version of the Legion of Boom on defense. Perhaps the above guys bust but you can clearly see the type of players we will want moving forward year to year.  

Except Joe Douglas is going to put his spin on it - He's going to get long players with extremely high character/High RAS and we are going to trade down a ton so we have multiple lottery tickets on this sort of player. I absolutely love it. 

With two picks in essentially every round next year, infinite money to spend and a clear direction moving forward I would like to tell those guys that love to be negative and half glass empty - You really may want to sit back, have the drink of your choosing and really enjoy the ride moving forward. Best position/direction I have ever seen us in. 

Nice find and awesome write up! I'm new ish to the game, and always appreciate these types of posts from long time students for learning purposes. 

 

Oh and JP Wisers 15 year ❤️

[Shockwave]

4 hours ago, bitonti said:

Arm length is like qb height it's nice to have but not a deal breaker 

The best tackle of all time Joe Thomas had 32.5 arms 

Chuma edoga has nearly 36 inchers and he sucks 

Hand placement, strength and timing are more important than the arm length 

 

 

Under 33 for Tackle is an outlier. Sure it happens but its certainly not the standard/Median. 

The magic number that NFL coaches prefer is 34 and as you see below its for a reason. Some  people with 33 are fine but 32 is the NFL is very rare. 

 

[Shockwave]

4 hours ago, kdels62 said:

Robert Saleh said early on that the defense will be very different from what the Seahawks run.

That being said Douglas puts premiums on athleticism especially for later round guys. Douglas does seem to like 32 inch arms on his CBs. Nasirildeen and Sherwood both lack great measurable athleticism, I like their game speed but they are outliers in Douglas’s usual methodology.

He said that and then drafted literally EXACT Seahawk type players. Thats absolutely a good thing. Seattle drafts well its just they never have picks. 

[Shockwave]

3 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

FWIW, I usually pick for Seattle and their DB rules are pretty well known.  Pinnock was one of the top guys that fit their profile. 

which-cornerbacks-pass-seahawks-athletic-measurable-thresholds

 

Great find - I had not seen this. 

[peebag]

3 hours ago, nycdan said:

Of course not.  But I don't think he was the best OT of all time.  I think Bit and I have sorted that out.

No, it needs to go to THUNDERDOME!!!!

[#27TheDominator]

8 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

He said that and then drafted literally EXACT Seahawk type players. Thats absolutely a good thing. Seattle drafts well its just they never have picks. 

Eh.  I am not sure that Seattle drafts well.  They do well in the later rounds finding guys and developing them.  At the top they are sketchy and on the OLine they have kind of sucked since Okung in 2010.  Ifedi is pretty much a disater.  Pocic underwhelming.  In general, I am usually more interested in their late rounders and UDFA.  Imagine how Jet fans would act if we had drafted Malik "I need to talk to your supervisor" McDowell in the first round. 

Funny thing is, the Seahawks are known for picking traits based guys and not deviating from their type, but their success is predicating on drafting a QB everybody passed on because he is so short. 

[clayton163v]

5 hours ago, nycdan said:

That's a bold, if not borderline silly take.  Top-10 absolutely.  Best all-time?  As in you would take him over Ogden, Munoz, Pace, Jones and some of the older guys who it's harder to compare to?  I know you'll defend it to your dying breath, but I think you'd be in a slender minority on that one.

If I could have any OT in history it would be Jackie Slater.

[Sperm Edwards]

5 hours ago, bitonti said:

Arm length is like qb height it's nice to have but not a deal breaker 

The best tackle of all time Joe Thomas had 32.5 arms 

Chuma edoga has nearly 36 inchers and he sucks 

Hand placement, strength and timing are more important than the arm length 

 

Agreed. It's better to have it than not, but it's more what you do with what you've got. Also note what Thomas lacked in length he made up for in girth. Hey now!

[thshadow]

BTW, this was implied by the OP, though I wasn't 100% sure.  AVT's arms are 32 1/8.

[OCCH23]

18 minutes ago, thshadow said:

BTW, this was implied by the OP, though I wasn't 100% sure.  AVT's arms are 32 1/8.

which is why we got him to play LG (LT in a pinch) . . .

[Shockwave]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Eh.  I am not sure that Seattle drafts well.  They do well in the later rounds finding guys and developing them.  At the top they are sketchy and on the OLine they have kind of sucked since Okung in 2010.  Ifedi is pretty much a disater.  Pocic underwhelming.  In general, I am usually more interested in their late rounders and UDFA.  Imagine how Jet fans would act if we had drafted Malik "I need to talk to your supervisor" McDowell in the first round. 

Funny thing is, the Seahawks are known for picking traits based guys and not deviating from their type, but their success is predicating on drafting a QB everybody passed on because he is so short. 

I shoulda been more specific - They draft well in the late rounds IMO. 

When we traded Jamal Adams to them I think they literally said at the press conference we suck up top anyway. 

The point really of the whole thread was that the Jets may be looking at very different players closer to the seahawk mold of CB moving forward. We talked for months about who the Jets liked and literally never mentioned most of these guys. 

Theres def a particular mold they are looking for and analytics seem to be playing a role as well - I love this strategy and we are looking at 5-6 picks on day 3 again next year so hoping to see it again. 

[jgb]

Some men are longer than others 

[Shelbyblue]

Yes, we can actually see the vision and the moves match the vision. How refreshing.

[Shockwave]

Quote

Panthers LT Brady Christensen in 2020 received the highest grade Pro Football Focus has ever given to a collegiate offensive lineman. 

Christensen, the BYU product taken in the third round by the Panthers -- who had hoped to drafted Oregon LT Penei Sewell -- is the odds-on favorite to start the 2021 season as Carolina's left tackle. The team has sought a reliable left tackle since 2013, when Jordan Gross retired. Christensen's PFF grade of 96 last season was an all-time high as he allowed two pressures on BYU QB Zach Wilson on 293 pass plays. “He comes from that pro-style offense at BYU so he’s done the things that we are asking guys to do,” Panthers head coach Matt Rhule said. “He’s been doing it there. He’s a tackle candidate that can also go inside and play guard. Again, a great, great, great athlete. Intelligence, the whole package.” Carolina's offensive line was leaky for some of the 2020 season; PFF graded them as the 18th best pass blocking unit. Carolina landing Christensen and WR Terrace Marshall are big wins for Sam Darnold. 

 

Christenson will be 25 for the start of the season and has 32 inch arms. I don't see this going well for them at LT. 

[32EBoozer]

On 5/5/2021 at 10:19 AM, Shockwave said:

 

Christenson will be 25 for the start of the season and has 32 inch arms. I don't see this going well for them at LT. 

Here’s an article that goes “arm-in-arm” with this! ?

http://www.jetsfix.com/draftfix-do-the-jets-care-about-arm-length/

DraftFix: Do the Jets care about arm length?

13 JUNE 2020

As we get into evaluating each of the rookies drafted or signed by the Jets this offseason, it's tempting to try and see if we can identify any trends that will tell us about which attributes Joe Douglas values most.

To that end, having carried out the first three in-depth scouting reports on the undrafted rookies, one such pattern appears to be emerging.

Bryce Huff, Jared Hilbers and Shyheim Carter - the three Jets undrafted rookies to whom they guaranteed the most money - each have extremely short arms. In fact, their arm length would fall below the 5th percentile at their position based on historical combine measurements. For Hilbers and Carter it actually comes in at the second percentile. 

Furthermore, for Hilbers, that's only if we treat his position as offensive lineman, rather than offensive tackle. For offensive tackles, the shortest arm length in combine history is 32 inches, whereas his measured at just under 31.5 when he was at the East West Shrine Game.

In all three cases, it is almost unprecedented for a player with arms that short to have NFL success at their given position. Already there has been some talk of Hilbers moving to guard, Carter to safety and Huff moving to inside linebacker to mitigate these issues.

Last year, the Jets drafted Blake Cashman, who similarly has such a short wingspan that it's almost unprecedented for anyone with arms that short to have NFL success. Cashman did have some initial success but his bigger concern right now is not with the length of his arms but how securely they are attached to his surgically repaired shoulders.

Cashman was a bit of a departure for Maccagnan, though, as the previous general manager had seemed to prioritize length, at least in the early rounds. Former defensive line coach Pepper Johnson actually specifically criticized the Jets for caring too much about length and drafting Leonard Williams when they could have had a more disruptive player in the stockier Grady Jarrett.

So, how about this new regime? Do they just not care? Or do they feel like they might be able to find some bargains like Jarrett because decision makers like Maccagnan have taken guys off their board due to arm length when they might still be capable of producing? 

Moreover, is there even a pattern? If you've been paying attention, the rest of the draft class did have a few other players with less than ideal length; namely Jabari Zuniga and Ashtyn Davis. However, the only other draft pick that doesn't have good-to-great length is Braden Mann and he's a punter so who cares? The top two picks - Mekhi Becton and Denzel Mims - actually have elite length, therefore continuing the previous trend set by Maccagnan.

The pattern doesn't see to follow for the rest of the undrafted free agent class either. While there is no published arm length for George Campbell or Domenique Davis, Lawrence Cager and Lamar Jackson have good length and Sterling Johnson and Javelin Guidry are in the middle of the pack.

Ultimately, we can conclude that the Jets haven't necessarily gone out of their way to seek out players with short arms, but at the same time they're not going to let traditional measurables dissuade them from taking a look at some talented rookies.

As to whether any of those three can make it - at their usual position or a new one - we'll have to wait and see, but one thing they do have in common is potential based on their collegiate film

 

Was hoping to see Huff step up this year. Hopefully his Wide-9

burst keeps defenders hands off him.

[Shockwave]

3 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

Here’s an article that goes “arm-in-arm” with this! ?

http://www.jetsfix.com/draftfix-do-the-jets-care-about-arm-length/

DraftFix: Do the Jets care about arm length?

13 JUNE 2020

As we get into evaluating each of the rookies drafted or signed by the Jets this offseason, it's tempting to try and see if we can identify any trends that will tell us about which attributes Joe Douglas values most.

To that end, having carried out the first three in-depth scouting reports on the undrafted rookies, one such pattern appears to be emerging.

Bryce Huff, Jared Hilbers and Shyheim Carter - the three Jets undrafted rookies to whom they guaranteed the most money - each have extremely short arms. In fact, their arm length would fall below the 5th percentile at their position based on historical combine measurements. For Hilbers and Carter it actually comes in at the second percentile. 

Furthermore, for Hilbers, that's only if we treat his position as offensive lineman, rather than offensive tackle. For offensive tackles, the shortest arm length in combine history is 32 inches, whereas his measured at just under 31.5 when he was at the East West Shrine Game.

In all three cases, it is almost unprecedented for a player with arms that short to have NFL success at their given position. Already there has been some talk of Hilbers moving to guard, Carter to safety and Huff moving to inside linebacker to mitigate these issues.

Last year, the Jets drafted Blake Cashman, who similarly has such a short wingspan that it's almost unprecedented for anyone with arms that short to have NFL success. Cashman did have some initial success but his bigger concern right now is not with the length of his arms but how securely they are attached to his surgically repaired shoulders.

Cashman was a bit of a departure for Maccagnan, though, as the previous general manager had seemed to prioritize length, at least in the early rounds. Former defensive line coach Pepper Johnson actually specifically criticized the Jets for caring too much about length and drafting Leonard Williams when they could have had a more disruptive player in the stockier Grady Jarrett.

So, how about this new regime? Do they just not care? Or do they feel like they might be able to find some bargains like Jarrett because decision makers like Maccagnan have taken guys off their board due to arm length when they might still be capable of producing? 

Moreover, is there even a pattern? If you've been paying attention, the rest of the draft class did have a few other players with less than ideal length; namely Jabari Zuniga and Ashtyn Davis. However, the only other draft pick that doesn't have good-to-great length is Braden Mann and he's a punter so who cares? The top two picks - Mekhi Becton and Denzel Mims - actually have elite length, therefore continuing the previous trend set by Maccagnan.

The pattern doesn't see to follow for the rest of the undrafted free agent class either. While there is no published arm length for George Campbell or Domenique Davis, Lawrence Cager and Lamar Jackson have good length and Sterling Johnson and Javelin Guidry are in the middle of the pack.

Ultimately, we can conclude that the Jets haven't necessarily gone out of their way to seek out players with short arms, but at the same time they're not going to let traditional measurables dissuade them from taking a look at some talented rookies.

As to whether any of those three can make it - at their usual position or a new one - we'll have to wait and see, but one thing they do have in common is potential based on their collegiate film

 

Was hoping to see Huff step up this year. Hopefully his Wide-9

burst keeps defenders hands off him.

In regards to UDFA - They are UDFA's for a reason. I feel like its kinda " take what you can get" there kinda thing. 

I think this article is from last year. If you look at our last two draft classes under Douglas there is certainly a trend towards longer guys. This year especially its almost all of them. 

There seems to be a clear type of player they are going after for better or worse. 

 

[32EBoozer]

Just now, Shockwave said:

In regards to UDFA - They are UDFA's for a reason. I feel like its kinda " take what you can get" there kinda thing. 

I think this article is from last year. If you look at our last two draft classes under Douglas there is certainly a trend towards longer guys. This year especially its almost all of them. 

There seems to be a clear type of player they are going after for better or worse. 

 

This article was from last year because I was trying to find Huffs measurements. I have a lot of hope with Huffs motor. It will be interesting to see if the LOA formula seems to be the main reason he can’t separate.