Build em up to knock them down

[rangerous]

ah, the jets beat reporters just can't help themselves.  they couldn't wait for darnold to clear out and now they're already gnawing on wilson.  good grief.  these guys need to give it a break.

 

Zach Wilson’s lack of pocket pressure could become big Jets concern

By Brian Costello

May 3, 2021 | 9:35pm | Updated

When you watch film of Zach Wilson at BYU last season, there are plenty of things that stand out — including how clean his uniform is.

Wilson was barely touched in 2020 as the Cougars played a weak schedule and he had the luxury of playing behind a strong offensive line. Of all the questions that have centered around the quality of competition Wilson faced last year, the most legitimate one may be is there enough film of him from college playing with someone in his face?

“That’s a fair question,” Jeff Grimes, who was BYU’s offensive coordinator last year and now is at Baylor, said. “He was standing back there eating a sandwich sometimes.”

Wilson was sacked a total of 11 times last season. There were six games when he was not sacked at all. Wilson was sacked once every 33 times he dropped back, according to the NFL Network. By contrast, Sam Darnold was sacked once every 12 times he dropped back last season.

The Jets invested in the offensive line with the selection of guard Alijah Vera-Tucker in the first round last week and they used their first-round pick on tackle Mekhi Becton last season, but the line is still a work in progress. Wilson will face more pressure if he plays as a rookie than he did at BYU.

Jets quarterbacks have been on the run for the last decade. In his three seasons with the team, Darnold was sacked 30, 33 and 35 times. The last time a Jets quarterback was not sacked at least 30 times was 2016.

“He is going to have to speed everything up a little bit because there was a pretty clean pocket for the most part there,” NFL Network analyst Daniel Jeremiah said. “I’ve seen examples of him being able to navigate within the pocket. I’ve seen examples of him being able to take off and create once he is flushed. I think his operation is really quick. In other words, I don’t think he needs a lot of space around his feet in order to be able to drive the ball. He doesn’t have to have his feet in the ground to deliver the football. I agree there are not a ton of examples of [Wilson facing pressure].

“But I’ve seen him, even on fadeaways getting pressure in his face, deliver the ball accurately. He’s got answers. It’s something that will be an adjustment seeing more of it. To me, he’s got the answers. He just needs more experience.”

 

Grimes, who was with Wilson for his entire career at BYU, said while the 2020 tape does not show many examples of Wilson facing pressure, he has faced it in his career. He was sacked 19 times as a sophomore and 23 times as a freshman. Grimes said Wilson is able to escape pressure when he needs to.

“At other times in his career I’ve seen him under duress,” Grimes said. “We played USC and Washington and Tennessee and Wisconsin. I’ve seen him in that situation. He’s a guy that creates. He’s an artist playing quarterback. Sometimes that’s standing back in the pocket for an exorbitant amount of time. Sometimes, though, it’s him feeling pressure and creating a play with his feet by extending to either sideline. I think he does that exceptionally well. He throws on the run better than anyone I’ve ever seen.”

Wilson’s durability also comes into play when you talk about him getting sacked. He had shoulder surgery in 2019 and even though he is 6-foot-2, 214 pounds, his frame is not big. Can he take the punishment he will absorb in the NFL? One hit last season altered Darnold’s season when his shoulder was driven into the ground.

Grimes said avoiding the big hits is something Wilson will figure out.

“I do think that will be an adjustment for him to understand how to throw on time consistently,” Grimes said. “It will be different than what he’s accustomed to, but I know he’ll do just fine with it because he’s incredibly intelligent and he’s a real fast thinker. I know he’s going to apply himself by studying the game and knowing where he has to go with the ball if they do get pressure on him.”

[Jets Things]

Brian Costello sits when he pees. 

[The Crusher]

Holy crap! Somebody better tell the coaching staff. 

[Jet Nut]

When he did face pressure he dealt with it.

The OL wont be the same sieve Darnold was behind in the first 2.5 years he was here.  

Better teams and their QBs are usually protected.  Lawrence was sacked 13 times.  Fields, 18 times.

 

 

[jamesr]

24 minutes ago, rangerous said:

The last time a Jets quarterback was not sacked at least 30 times was 2016.

Hmmm ... if only there was some way to understand if our complete lack of drafting decent OL forever had anything to do with this? ?

[Patriot Killa]

25 minutes ago, rangerous said:

“At other times in his career I’ve seen him under duress,” Grimes said. “We played USC and Washington and Tennessee and Wisconsin.

Which is precisely why when I made that original thread with the cut ups of his games against pressure, I went straight to his 2019 season and reviewed Tennessee, USC and Washington. He showed good understanding of the limitations of a play. How far he could keep it alive and make something happen before it was detrimental to the team or likely to cause a turnover. If he didn’t feel good about the chances of extending a broken play, he would dirt the pass or throw it away. That’s what I was consistently tryin to find evidence of in those cut ups. Wilson understanding what to do with pressure when it’s closing in on you quick. How does he react when he sees it. How does he create when the defense takes what’s working, away.

[Warfish]

I think we have alot of fans who think Wilson is literally perfect, no flaws, no concerns, no risks.

Seems familiar......

 

 

[slats]

Eight of his 11 games last year at BYU were absolute blowout wins. It's not gonna be that way in the NFL. I'm sure that will come as a surprise to everyone. 

[Jdub03]

The 2020 NFL avg. sacks per game was 2.2. The Jets finished 24th with 2.7, but was 2.3 the final 3 games of the year. With the addition of Vera Tucker, a new scheme, a real training camp and off-season these should improve further in 2021. Sam definitely helped these numbers though with his escapability. We'll see if Zach can be as elusive. 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/qb-sacked-per-game

[Doggin94it]

I'm not sure why "here's something Wilson will need to adjust to and that the Jets can't be certain about" is "knocking him down"

[Larz]

It’s like they always say, never draft tQB that doesn’t get sacked a lot

[JustInFudge]

[RVAJet815]

11 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I think we have alot of fans who think Wilson is literally perfect, no flaws, no concerns, no risks.

Seems familiar......

 

 

Yes, and it matches the fans who think Wilson is hopeless with no chance of succeeding. It’s called a bell curve for a reason. 

[Jdub03]

[KRL]

Such hypocrites, they cry about the "heavy price" they paid to go up and
get Vera-Tucker (to give Wilson a clean pocket).  Then they want to imply
that Wilson can't/won't perform without a clean pocket  

[JustInFudge]

15 minutes ago, slats said:

Eight of his 11 games last year at BYU were absolute blowout wins. It's not gonna be that way in the NFL. I'm sure that will come as a surprise to everyone. 

1/7 TD vs INT and winless vs, team with 10 or more wins.  There are serious concerns IMO about Wilson playing up.  I think he's in over his skies and this is going to be ugly which is why I really want a vet in here, in the very least, just to create a support system.  I know they might not take the starter snaps but just having him in a room with James Morgan, this just seems like a huge mistake. 

[slats]

2 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

1/7 TD vs INT and winless vs, team with 10 or more wins.  There are serious concerns IMO about Wilson playing up.  I think he's in over his skies and this is going to be ugly which is why I really want a vet in here, in the very least, just to create a support system.  I know they might not take the starter snaps but just having him in a room with James Morgan, this just seems like a huge mistake. 

It'll probably be Hoyer in the Brunell/McCown role. Because no, I can't imagine them going with Morgan as the only other QB in the room. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

The article has a title that presents a question and then the article itself interviews a guy that says "He's awesome, it won't be a problem".

I see you Brian Costello. Covering all them bases eh?

[The Crusher]

26 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I think we have alot of fans who think Wilson is literally perfect, no flaws, no concerns, no risks.

Seems familiar......

 

 

Maybe a couple. I think most are cautiously optimistic. Personally?  I am not. I actually felt like you suggested about Sam, I was 100% convinced he was our guy finally, obviously he is not. Only thing I’m sure if is Zach is coming into a reasonably better situation than Sam. Other than that I have no clue abs prefer to temper my expectations. But yea,  we got people who want to believe and people who refuse to believe in him. But, I don’t think there are a vast number that think he is perfect with no flaws. If they do then they are just silly ninnies. 

[The Crusher]

1 minute ago, slats said:

It'll probably be Hoyer in the Brunell/McCown role. Because no, I can't imagine them going with Morgan as the only other QB in the room. 

Yeah Morgan be like hiring a life coach that hasn’t been born yet. 

[extmenace]

30 minutes ago, Jdub03 said:

The 2020 NFL avg. sacks per game was 2.2. The Jets finished 24th with 2.7, but was 2.3 the final 3 games of the year. With the addition of Vera Tucker, a new scheme, a real training camp and off-season these should improve further in 2021. Sam definitely helped these numbers though with his escapability. We'll see if Zach can be as elusive. 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/qb-sacked-per-game

Sacks are one thing, I’d like to see where the Jets stacked up last year vs the avg in qb pressures. Sacks just mean the defense got home. We just signed a guy with low sack totals but his pressures were at an elite rate. 

[Scott Dierking]

So, a college qb prospect is going to have to adjust to the NFL game in his rookie season? Earth shattering.

[munchmemory]

12 minutes ago, slats said:

It'll probably be Hoyer in the Brunell/McCown role. Because no, I can't imagine them going with Morgan as the only other QB in the room. 

Absolutely.  'Cause nothing says competent QB success/experience and teaching ability like Brian Hoyer.  Help me, Jesus.

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Maybe a couple. I think most are cautiously optimistic. Personally?  I am not. I actually felt like you suggested about Sam, I was 100% convinced he was our guy finally, obviously he is not. Only thing I’m sure if is Zach is coming into a reasonably better situation than Sam. Other than that I have no clue abs prefer to temper my expectations. But yea,  we got people who want to believe and people who refuse to believe in him. But, I don’t think there are a vast number that think he is perfect with no flaws. If they do then they are just silly ninnies. 

This site has a lot of silly ninnies, then, lol

Good post though, I agree.  I'm not really optimistic, per say but I'm definitely excited to see this play out and it's mostly because I like what JD has done to surround the young QB.  So different then anything this team has ever done in my life time, that I cant help but be intrigued.  

[TMAC]

Until the season begins and they actually start playing games, we will have to endure a deluge of BS.  that's all it is.  He wasn't a captain.  He hurt his shoulder.  The competition was not good.  He's too young.  He's too young looking.  His mother is too young.  She is too young looking.  His offensive line was too good.  He didn't play enough games.  and so forth.  All meaningless until the hitting starts.

[JustInFudge]

14 minutes ago, slats said:

It'll probably be Hoyer in the Brunell/McCown role. Because no, I can't imagine them going with Morgan as the only other QB in the room. 

Ideally for me it's someone who can start if/or Wilson struggles/gets injured or he's just out right not ready to start week 1.  Which is why I preferred Bridgewater but maybe JD can get Foles for something cheap?  He sucks but that's better then Hoyer.  Or hell, convince Alex Smith to come out of retirement.

 

[Tranquilo]

He’ll show if he’s ready during training camp. I don’t think it matters what school you come from. Darnold came from a “big” school and had wins vs “good” teams and it wasn’t an easy transition. Tua sat coming from Alabama. So I don’t think it’s a matter of school and beating good teams as much as skills. He’ll show if he’s ready or not. 

[Lith]

Wilson's ability to face the speed and complexity of NFL defenses is a legitimate question.  He will no longer have the benefit of playing on a team that is vastly superior to  their opponent most weeks.  And it is one that I am sure our CS considered in the evaluation process.  Same can be said of almost any college QB transitioning to the pros.  

I can't see killing Costello for raising a legitimate concern -- he is not calling WIlson a bust or a bad pick.   He is just stating the obvious. The kid will have a transition to make to succeed in the NFL.

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I think we have alot of fans who think Wilson is literally perfect, no flaws, no concerns, no risks.

Seems familiar......

 

 

Watching the draft all 3 days in @TheMo's Zoom room...  discussion on day 3 was how the consensus on here saying how JD is "killing it" in this draft.  In theory, maybe, but the overall evaluation of JD "killing it" will be whether or not Wilson pans out.  Not Moore.  Not Carter.  Not the puppy litter of DBs either.  It's all about Wilson.  Until he we know what we have, there is no "killing it".

[56mehl56]

30 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

1/7 TD vs INT and winless vs, team with 10 or more wins.  There are serious concerns IMO about Wilson playing up.  I think he's in over his skies and this is going to be ugly which is why I really want a vet in here, in the very least, just to create a support system.  I know they might not take the starter snaps but just having him in a room with James Morgan, this just seems like a huge mistake. 

I agree having a vet mentor is not a bad thing , but why does it need to be a roster spot. Why not add another coach to the staff as others have stated before.  I personally want this kid getting every snap possible without the distraction of constantly looking over his shoulder .

[fullblast]

I do expect a pretty significant transition to facing NFL-level pass rushes, we'll just have to see how he handles it. That said, it's pretty obvious how the media cycle works. Wilson was held as the darling during the pre-draft process and  Fields was the punching bag. Now that the draft is over, Fields will be lifted up and Wilson will be picked apart. You have to keep the clicks coming in somehow.

[chirorob]

1 hour ago, slats said:

Eight of his 11 games last year at BYU were absolute blowout wins. It's not gonna be that way in the NFL. I'm sure that will come as a surprise to everyone. 

Oh.  I think he could have 8 blow out wins his rookie year, easily.

No blowout wins for the Jets, but blowouts for sure.

[JustInFudge]

8 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Watching the draft all 3 days in @TheMo's Zoom room...  discussion on day 3 was how the consensus on here saying how JD is "killing it" in this draft.  In theory, maybe, but the overall evaluation of JD "killing it" will be whether or not Wilson pans out.  Not Moore.  Not Carter.  Not the puppy litter of DBs either.  It's all about Wilson.  Until he we know what we have, there is no "killing it".

True, ultimately but somewhat unfair.  The one thing JD has done well has set himself up with so many picks, that the blow back if he misses on Wilson might not be as bad then it would under different circumstances.   The Jets are not good but they're building a foundation, if you figure out in a few years that Wilson isnt the guy then at least you've created a foundation where you're a QB away, instead of a complete building which includes a QB.  While it doesnt make it easier, there is a new flashy QB every year in the draft and I think we might entering a different time in the league where QB's might move more often then we've seen historically. 

 

[JustInFudge]

14 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

I agree having a vet mentor is not a bad thing , but why does it need to be a roster spot. Why not add another coach to the staff as others have stated before.  I personally want this kid getting every snap possible without the distraction of constantly looking over his shoulder .

We all want that, but that doesnt mean he's ready for it.  I just think they should have a fall back plan.  Dont force the issue because you want it.  Do what's right for him.

[Biggs]

Most NFL QB's suck when the pocket collapses.  See Brady, the goat, against the NY Giants D.  See Mahomes against the TB D.

The entire point of putting a premium on edge rushers and DT who can pressure up the middle is QB's, all of them suck when there is pressure.  

Do you have the quick release and brains to see the blitz and get the ball out.  Do you have a safety valve who can make a guy miss.  Does your OC have a plan for pressure that the QB can execute?  

Even if you have all of that a Defense that can rush 4 and collapse the pocket that has any descipline at all is going to make your QB suck.