Build em up to knock them down

[Lith]

31 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

I agree having a vet mentor is not a bad thing , but why does it need to be a roster spot. Why not add another coach to the staff as others have stated before.  I personally want this kid getting every snap possible without the distraction of constantly looking over his shoulder .

Because you need someone on the roster who is capable of running an NFL offense if either Wilson is not ready or if he gets hurt.  We saw what happened a few years ago when Luke Falk was sent out there.  We are still trying to develop other young players on offense.  WRs, RBs, OL, TE. 

It won't help anyone if Morgan goes out there and performs similar to Luke Falk, or going back a little further, Greg McElroy or Matt Simms.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, RVAJet815 said:

Yes, and it matches the fans who think Wilson is hopeless with no chance of succeeding. It’s called a bell curve for a reason. 

No one here thinks Wilson is hopeless. 

At most, some of us think he has some risk factors.  Some of which could (stress could) be significant, but only time and games will tell. 

Risk =/= hopeless in any form.

On the other side, we do have posters who have literally objected angrily to every possible risk ever raised about Wilson.  

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

Maybe a couple. I think most are cautiously optimistic. Personally?  I am not. I actually felt like you suggested about Sam, I was 100% convinced he was our guy finally, obviously he is not. Only thing I’m sure if is Zach is coming into a reasonably better situation than Sam. Other than that I have no clue abs prefer to temper my expectations. But yea,  we got people who want to believe and people who refuse to believe in him. But, I don’t think there are a vast number that think he is perfect with no flaws. If they do then they are just silly ninnies. 

Interesting that you and I have flipped somewhat.  I am quite cautiously optimistic about Wilson, actually, but optimistic none-the-less. 

More than I was about Sam (Sam's accuracy/turnover prone/happy feet flaws was an obvious fatality to him IMO).

He (Wilson) most certainly has a number of risk factors (like Sam had) that are obvious to an objective observer IMO, but none of them are disqualifying in any way per se. 

Wilson could in fact be the man, we'll know soon enough when he takes the field and starts playing games his rookie year. I'm VERY much looking forward to seeing him play.  His small-school college career is basically meaningless now, the level of competition will be so much higher for and against in the NFL.  I want to see how he looks in that materially higher level environment.

Wonderfully, it finally seems like we're supporting our QB for once, which alone should be a godsent for Wilson's potential success.

[Jdub03]

1 hour ago, extmenace said:

Sacks are one thing, I’d like to see where the Jets stacked up last year vs the avg in qb pressures. Sacks just mean the defense got home. We just signed a guy with low sack totals but his pressures were at an elite rate. 

Jets were 24th in hurries with 59. Top 10 in those categories would be giving up 45 or fewer hurries. The Charger's were last with 90 hurries, that makes what Herbert did even more special, wow. 

Also, interesting, the Steelers gave up only 14 sacks but nearly the same amount of pressures at 54. Either Big Ben is more of a freak then I thought, or I'm misreading this chart.

Any ideas what pkt time is? I would guess pocket time. Steelers are the lowest with 2.1, and they also gave up the fewest sacks. Does this corelate to how quickly they get the ball out or are sacked?

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/advanced.htm

Click pressure tab.

[Integrity28]

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

I think we have alot of fans who think Wilson is literally perfect, no flaws, no concerns, no risks.

Seems familiar......

 

 

I dont think anyone has said this

 

[The Crusher]

21 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Interesting that you and I have flipped somewhat.  I am quite cautiously optimistic about Wilson, actually, but optimistic none-the-less. 

More than I was about Sam (Sam's accuracy/turnover prone/happy feet flaws was an obvious fatality to him IMO).

He (Wilson) most certainly has a number of risk factors (like Sam had) that are obvious to an objective observer IMO, but none of them are disqualifying in any way per se. 

Wilson could in fact be the man, we'll know soon enough when he takes the field and starts playing games his rookie year. I'm VERY much looking forward to seeing him play.  His small-school college career is basically meaningless now, the level of competition will be so much higher for and against in the NFL.  I want to see how he looks in that materially higher level environment.

Wonderfully, it finally seems like we're supporting our QB for once, which alone should be a godsent for Wilson's potential success.

Great stuff brother! I might need to borrow a cup of your optimism at first. Wait wut!!!!!? Bwahaha 

[NIGHT STALKER]

I'm tired of hearing about the schedule of BYU...yet, the darling of the QB draft, Trey Lance gets a pass (no pun).  The kid played how many games again?  And a Division II school on top of that.  It just seems like some of the reporters and fans as well, are chomping at the bit hoping Wilson fails.

[section314]

8 minutes ago, NIGHT STALKER said:

I'm tired of hearing about the schedule of BYU...yet, the darling of the QB draft, Trey Lance gets a pass (no pun).  The kid played how many games again?  And a Division II school on top of that.  It just seems like some of the reporters and fans as well, are chomping at the bit hoping Wilson fails.

Go and Google the 2020 BYU original schedule. They were going to play 3-4 games against both Big 10 and PAC12 teams. When these schools originally opted out, they had to scramble to get games. The BYU coach knew he had a good team and great QB, and was ready to play their most ambitious schedule ever. The people who complain about the final schedule don't know what really happened, or just don't care. And for the record, 3 of the db's on UCF, the team Wilson put up almost 400 yards before halftime, were just drafted, one 40th, one 71st, and one 223rd.

[BigRy56]

All of this goes away the second he drops 450 yards and 5 TDs in a route against the Jaguars. Everybody knows who the future of the league is - The Mormon Machine 

[Lith]

2 hours ago, JiFapono said:

True, ultimately but somewhat unfair.  The one thing JD has done well has set himself up with so many picks, that the blow back if he misses on Wilson might not be as bad then it would under different circumstances.   The Jets are not good but they're building a foundation, if you figure out in a few years that Wilson isnt the guy then at least you've created a foundation where you're a QB away, instead of a complete building which includes a QB.  While it doesnt make it easier, there is a new flashy QB every year in the draft and I think we might entering a different time in the league where QB's might move more often then we've seen historically. 

 

Yup.  I agree.  To me the biggest takeaway out of this draft is that there seemed to be a plan in place.  We targeted certain guys on the offienisive side of the ball early, adding a LG, WR and RB who will all (hopefully) help the development of your young QB over the next few years.  I don't know if Wilson will be good -- sure hope he is -- but if he struggles, I am confident that we will not be sitting here in three years wondering if it on Wilson or on the support around him.

As for day 3, it was a bit curious at first that he was taking all these DBs, but as the day wore on a plan emerged.  We have a solid DL, so he was adding a lot of speed and athleticism to the LB/DB rooms.  We have no way of knowing how any of these guys will work out, but at least there appears to be a plan in place for building this team.

[56mehl56]

3 hours ago, Lith said:

Because you need someone on the roster who is capable of running an NFL offense if either Wilson is not ready or if he gets hurt.  We saw what happened a few years ago when Luke Falk was sent out there.  We are still trying to develop other young players on offense.  WRs, RBs, OL, TE. 

It won't help anyone if Morgan goes out there and performs similar to Luke Falk, or going back a little further, Greg McElroy or Matt Simms.

For me this season is all about getting Wilson reps in this offense. The more he can get the better. If he struggles let him gain valuable experience by playing through it. If by chance the Jets are at or above 500 at mid-season then perhaps trade for a Vet in case Wilson gets injured, otherwise roll with Morgan/White. If he goes down chances are the season is lost anyways. 

The kid is the #2 pick in the draft  I'm not sure why some people want to handle him like he's a Swavorski crystal egg, 

[legler82]

God are we going to cry every time a less than favorable story comes out about Wilson? 

[munchmemory]

Just now, legler82 said:

God are we going to cry every time a less than favorable story comes out about Wilson? 

Maybe a solitary tear.

[56mehl56]

1 hour ago, BigRy56 said:

All of this goes away the second he drops 450 yards and 5 TDs in a route against the Jaguars. Everybody knows who the future of the league is - The Mormon Machine 

I'm not sure you remember the name Browning Nagle. 

[legler82]

1 minute ago, munchmemory said:

Maybe a solitary tear.

[Beerfish]

How is this different than any other QB from this draft? 

All of these guys played on good or stacked teams playing versus lesser teams.

All of them are going to lesser teams that the dominant ones they played on before.

The young qbs coming from this draft will succeed if their olines are stout and they have weapons and good coaching.

They will fall on their asses if that is not the case.

The best Qb in this league just came off a game in which he was destroyed due to pass rush.

[Big_Slick]

Usually the beat writers give the new QB and/or HC a first year honeymoon period writing fluff and they wait a year to start tearing the new guys down. Looks like Wilson won't be given that luxury. Hope he starts off really hot.

[Lith]

1 hour ago, 56mehl56 said:

For me this season is all about getting Wilson reps in this offense. The more he can get the better. If he struggles let him gain valuable experience by playing through it. If by chance the Jets are at or above 500 at mid-season then perhaps trade for a Vet in case Wilson gets injured, otherwise roll with Morgan/White. If he goes down chances are the season is lost anyways. 

The kid is the #2 pick in the draft  I'm not sure why some people want to handle him like he's a Swavorski crystal egg, 

And the season should be all about getting Wilson reps.  I expect him to start and start on day 1. As long as he earns it by showing that he can competently run an NFL offense.. 

But if he gets banged up, you need a guy who can run an NFL offense.  Otherwise you risk making it a wasted year for AVT and Becton and Mims and Moore and Herndon and Carter and Johnson and Adams.

[Jethead]

2 hours ago, Lith said:

Yup.  I agree.  To me the biggest takeaway out of this draft is that there seemed to be a plan in place.  We targeted certain guys on the offienisive side of the ball early, adding a LG, WR and RB who will all (hopefully) help the development of your young QB over the next few years.  I don't know if Wilson will be good -- sure hope he is -- but if he struggles, I am confident that we will not be sitting here in three years wondering if it on Wilson or on the support around him.

As for day 3, it was a bit curious at first that he was taking all these DBs, but as the day wore on a plan emerged.  We have a solid DL, so he was adding a lot of speed and athleticism to the LB/DB rooms.  We have no way of knowing how any of these guys will work out, but at least there appears to be a plan in place for building this team.

A very solid plan. And the defensive blueprint looks very well designed. I'm very impressed with the leadership team we have now.

[GreenReaper]

I certainly make no insistence that Zach Wilson should start right away.  And I truly like the ZW pick.  

Rivers didn't start until his 3rd year.  Brady also in his 3rd year.  Rodgers in his 4th year when the Packers finally pushed Favre out.  

What they have in common is they'll all end up one day in Canton.  Eli Manning sat for awhile and was eased into his first start.  Mahomes sat a year and is now considered King QB NFL. 

Except for Rivers...all the above helped guide their team to a Lombardi Trophy.  Their QB development certainly didn't take a hit from sitting some.

Jets obviously expect considerable improvement from the OL.  Good enough to allow Zach Wilson to start right away.   ZW's quick release...combined with the WCO designed quick timely patterns...will be something Jets feel he can handle with efficiency.  Also the run game behind Becton-AVT should be much improved this year.  Allowing play action throws to the intermediate and deep parts of the field.   Playmakers like Moore and Carter will be a big boost for ZW to operate with.  As well as with what they assembled in FA.

Nothing was in this article that hasn't been discussed here before. 

It's Jets call.  And they feel they're making the right one in starting ZW now.  We'll just have to wait and see how things will play out.       

  

 

[Tranquilo]

1 hour ago, legler82 said:

God are we going to cry every time a less than favorable story comes out about Wilson? 

Are we also going to cry every time there's a "puff" piece written about Wilson? You make it sound like everyone is posting the exact same way. We get it, You don't like Wilson. 

[56mehl56]

39 minutes ago, Lith said:

And the season should be all about getting Wilson reps.  I expect him to start and start on day 1. As long as he earns it by showing that he can competently run an NFL offense.. 

But if he gets banged up, you need a guy who can run an NFL offense.  Otherwise you risk making it a wasted year for AVT and Becton and Mims and Moore and Herndon and Carter and Johnson and Adams.

What FA QB out there right now would you confidently feel could fit that role. It would have to be someone comfortable with the Shanahan/Lafleur system as I wouldn't think they'd be getting many reps especially after TC/PS .  I personally don't see anyone that fits that role and I'd hate the Jets to have to trade assets to acquire a security blanket. 

[56mehl56]

17 minutes ago, GreenReaper said:

I certainly make no insistence that Zach Wilson should start right away.  And I truly like the ZW pick.  

Rivers didn't start until his 3rd year.  Brady also in his 3rd year.  Rodgers in his 4th year when the Packers finally pushed Favre out.  

What they have in common is they'll all end up one day in Canton.  Eli Manning sat for awhile and was eased into his first start.  Mahomes sat a year and is now considered King QB NFL. 

Except for Rivers...all the above helped guide their team to a Lombardi Trophy.  Their QB development certainly didn't take a hit from sitting some.

Jets obviously expect considerable improvement from the OL.  Good enough to allow Zach Wilson to start right away.   ZW's quick release...combined with the WCO designed quick timely patterns...will be something Jets feel he can handle with efficiency.  Also the run game behind Becton-AVT should be much improved this year.  Allowing play action throws to the intermediate and deep parts of the field.   Playmakers like Moore and Carter will be a big boost for ZW to operate with.  As well as with what they assembled in FA.

Nothing was in this article that hasn't been discussed here before. 

It's Jets call.  And they feel they're making the right one in starting ZW now.  We'll just have to wait and see how things will play out.       

  

 

In a lot of those cases you had an established Vet sitting in the starting role  with established coaches and systems. That is not the case with the 2021 Jets. Everyone is starting with a clean slate day one. You can learn all you want in the film room or with a clipboard in your hand , but the true learning experience begins when the live bullets are flying. 

[BurnleyJet]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

How is this different than any other QB from this draft? 

All of these guys played on good or stacked teams playing versus lesser teams.

All of them are going to lesser teams that the dominant ones they played on before.

The young qbs coming from this draft will succeed if their olines are stout and they have weapons and good coaching.

They will fall on their asses if that is not the case.

The best Qb in this league just came off a game in which he was destroyed due to pass rush.

There is a reason Top end pass rushers are payed like God’s. We at least have a GM who understands positional importance, rather then spending 1st round picks in Safety’s, run stuffing Dlinemen, and Inside Linebackers.

[Jet_Engine1]

6 hours ago, Warfish said:

I think we have alot of fans who think Wilson is literally perfect, no flaws, no concerns, no risks.

Seems familiar......

 

 

I can't speak for anyone else, so I won't....but for me, I will never be as invested personally in another QB as I was Darnold. I've never watched a BYU game, have no interest in Wilson personally, and don't care what his Mom does on IG or whatever. All I care about now is having an above average, modern NFL offense that can attack all levels of the field. 

 

That being said, there is no such thing as a "perfect" prospect, and unlike the failure sandwich Mac, Bowles and Gase handed Darnold, I'm glad to see the Franchise seems to get the idea that supporting the QB is important. 

 

Now, the guys here who are actively HATING on the guy are being Assholes. Period. Total ******* assholes. Whether it's just shtick, virtue signalling, bigotry based on religion, or whatever,  its already over the top. Justin Fields ain't our QB, and he isn't going to be. Ever.

Some guys here seem to need a reminder.

 

And the guys going out of their way to spam threads and sh*t all over a 21 year old kid who has done nothing wrong or offensive maybe should take a break. Or walk away. The Bears, Jaguars,  Browns, and any other franchise isn't going to turn down new viewers. 

 

So no, he isn't "perfect", and I haven't seen ANYONE here say he is. But the amount of grown men on a message board attacking the QB of the team they supposedly root for based on a guys appearance,  religion, or even his Mother is kinda gross and borders on the degenerate. 

[Chewy and the Jets]

Wilson:  It's true he might struggle under the pressure of an NFL defense trained to try and kill him.

Trevor Lawrence:  It's true he might struggle when not playing in the ACC where his team is 5X more talented than the typical competition.

Mac Jones:  It's true he might struggle when not throwing to his #6 overall WR, his #11 overall & Heisman winning WR, handing off to his first round running back, or being protected behind what will end up being 3-4 first round offensive linemen.

Trey Lance:  It's true he might struggle playing foot ball in general since he has played one game the last 1 1/2 years and no games against anyone in the NCAA top 100 EVER. 

Justin Fields:  It's true he might struggle when his team is not 3 TD favorites and any of his 12 teammates that will be drafted in the top two rounds of the NFL are not playing.

Only difference between Wilson and the rest is that none of the others play in the world's largest media market and all of these journalists make their money on clicks and eyeballs.  We will be targets (and rightfully so based on our putrid development of the QB position) so lets embrace it and hopefully it will be that much sweeter assuming any of us make it to the finish line alive!    

 

 

  

 

 

[Charlie Brown]

6 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

When he did face pressure he dealt with it.

The OL wont be the same sieve Darnold was behind in the first 3.5 years he was here.  

Better teams and their QBs are usually protected.  Lawrence was sacked 13 times.  Fields, 18 times.

 

 

Thank you!

The Jets shouldn't be in the business to prove that Zach Willson can be chased  around like a lunatic as a result of an inferior OL!!!

[jgb]

Why are we angry at the writers this time? We have such a complex.

[Lurker89]

9 hours ago, Warfish said:

I think we have alot of fans who think Wilson is literally perfect, no flaws, no concerns, no risks.

Seems familiar......

 

 

Most Jets fan at the moment:

 

Me:

 

[jgb]

9 hours ago, Warfish said:

No one here thinks Wilson is hopeless. 

At most, some of us think he has some risk factors.  Some of which could (stress could) be significant, but only time and games will tell. 

Risk =/= hopeless in any form.

On the other side, we do have posters who have literally objected angrily to every possible risk ever raised about Wilson.  

Just wait until Darnold has a good quarter of football in Carolina.

[jgb]

11 hours ago, Warfish said:

I think we have alot of fans who think Wilson is literally perfect, no flaws, no concerns, no risks.

Seems familiar......

 

 

And that any article that is less than fawning must be part of a vast anti-Jets media conspiracy.

[CTM]

11 hours ago, JiFapono said:

1/7 TD vs INT and winless vs, team with 10 or more wins.  There are serious concerns IMO about Wilson playing up.  I think he's in over his skies and this is going to be ugly which is why I really want a vet in here, in the very least, just to create a support system.  I know they might not take the starter snaps but just having him in a room with James Morgan, this just seems like a huge mistake. 

Yep it seems so obvious that this is going to be a disaster I can't understand how Saleh and JD don't see it. This seems like a Woody or Chris Johnson type of move.

[Claymation]

Throwing into a window doesn’t matter who the competition is.

He throws with Anticipation. Reads a defense, looks off safeties and throws receivers opens.

He has a strong arm and throws off platform when he needs to. What more do you want?

And the reason Zach’s uniform is clean is because BYU primarily plays on artificial turf.

[greenwichjetfan]

11 hours ago, JiFapono said:

1/7 TD vs INT and winless vs, team with 10 or more wins.

NONE OF THIS MATTERS!! SKILL SETZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ AND ARM TALENTZZZZZZZZZZZZZ