Jump to content

Recommended Posts

22 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

I can't speak for anyone else, so I won't....but for me, I will never be as invested personally in another QB as I was Darnold. I've never watched a BYU game, have no interest in Wilson personally, and don't care what his Mom does on IG or whatever. All I care about now is having an above average, modern NFL offense that can attack all levels of the field. 

 

That being said, there is no such thing as a "perfect" prospect, and unlike the failure sandwich Mac, Bowles and Gase handed Darnold, I'm glad to see the Franchise seems to get the idea that supporting the QB is important. 

 

Now, the guys here who are actively HATING on the guy are being Assholes. Period. Total ******* assholes. Whether it's just shtick, virtue signalling, bigotry based on religion, or whatever,  its already over the top. Justin Fields ain't our QB, and he isn't going to be. Ever.

Some guys here seem to need a reminder.

 

And the guys going out of their way to spam threads and sh*t all over a 21 year old kid who has done nothing wrong or offensive maybe should take a break. Or walk away. The Bears, Jaguars,  Browns, and any other franchise isn't going to turn down new viewers. 

 

So no, he isn't "perfect", and I haven't seen ANYONE here say he is. But the amount of grown men on a message board attacking the QB of the team they supposedly root for based on a guys appearance,  religion, or even his Mother is kinda gross and borders on the degenerate. 

lmfao - you dont like Justin Fields because he's black.  GTFO here with your self righteous holier than thou, I'm above making fun of Zach Wilson's appearance and anyone who does should be ashamed of themselves.  You're literally running around this forum posting pictures of Kid n Play anytime anyone mentions Justin Fields name or anytime someone who supported him talks about him, you started a thread that you thought was going to get you banned with the picture.  It's disgusting, racist and complete hypocritical bull sh*t after posting this nonsense.  Meanwhile, there is another thread making fun of how Mac Jones looks and walks yet you're no where to be found.  We all know who you are, you dont disguise it, you're vocal about who you are, so own it and dont start acting like you're better than anyone else.  

  • Post of the Week 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 98
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Brian Costello sits when he pees. 

I think we have alot of fans who think Wilson is literally perfect, no flaws, no concerns, no risks. Seems familiar......    

Wilson's ability to face the speed and complexity of NFL defenses is a legitimate question.  He will no longer have the benefit of playing on a team that is vastly superior to  their opponent most wee

11 hours ago, CTM said:

Yep it seems so obvious that this is going to be a disaster I can't understand how Saleh and JD don't see it. This seems like a Woody or Chris Johnson type of move.

JD and Saleh seems like alpha dogs, shocking that they saw Wilson in person and was like, yep, this is the kid I'm tying my career too but we've seen it happens 100 of times before, especially with the Jets, so maybe not that shocking.

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

NONE OF THIS MATTERS!! SKILL SETZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ AND ARM TALENTZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

I dont think the wins matter...but the performance is scary.

Kyle Trask with half the skill set, threw for 400 yards and 3 TD's vs. the best team in the Nation in the SEC Champ game.  While I dont love Trask as a prospect, that's the type of stuff you want your QB doing when they play up...not 1 TD and 7 picks. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, JiFapono said:

1/7 TD vs INT and winless vs, team with 10 or more wins.  There are serious concerns IMO about Wilson playing up.  I think he's in over his skies and this is going to be ugly which is why I really want a vet in here, in the very least, just to create a support system.  I know they might not take the starter snaps but just having him in a room with James Morgan, this just seems like a huge mistake. 

You think Zach is going to wash out.  It's been your opinion since day 1.  What difference does a vet JAG make?  The support system is the coaches and the guys who are going to be playing with him.  

Zach never won or lost a game BYU did.   There are no examples of Vet 2nd tier guys helping develop a QB.  There's some hindsight of successful QB's who were drafted by good teams with good QB's who didn't start right away.

Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

lmfao - you dont like Justin Fields because he's black.  GTFO out here with your self righteous holier than thou, I'm above making fun of Zach Wilson's appearance and anyone who does should be ashamed of themselves.  You're literally running around this forum posting pictures of Kid n Play anytime anyone mentions Justin Fields name or anytime someone who supported him talks about him.  It's disgusting, racist and complete hypocritical bull sh*t after posting this nonsense.  Meanwhile, there is another thread making fun of Mac Jones looks and you're no where to be found.  We all know who you are, you dont disguise it, you're vocal about who you are, so own it and dont start acting like you're better than anyone else.  

Nobody is above making fun of Wilson's appearance.  That's pure BS and Tom Shane will back me up on this.

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Maybe a couple. I think most are cautiously optimistic. Personally?  I am not. I actually felt like you suggested about Sam, I was 100% convinced he was our guy finally, obviously he is not. Only thing I’m sure if is Zach is coming into a reasonably better situation than Sam. Other than that I have no clue abs prefer to temper my expectations. But yea,  we got people who want to believe and people who refuse to believe in him. But, I don’t think there are a vast number that think he is perfect with no flaws. If they do then they are just silly ninnies. 

Not emotionally investing in Wilson is 100 % the way to go.  No matter what happens it'll be OK.  We can either be pleasantly surprised if he succeeds or just sit there in a state of callous indifference if he fails.  Wilson is Schrödinger's QB.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, munchmemory said:

Absolutely.  'Cause nothing says competent QB success/experience and teaching ability like Brian Hoyer.  Help me, Jesus.

Those who can't do, can teach.  Some solid QB Coaches, OC's and HC's were former failures at QB, if you haven't noticed!  

Hoyer would be fine as long as no one has any delusions of grandeur about what our W-L record would be when he's under center.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Not emotionally investing in Wilson is 100 % the way to go.  No matter what happens it'll be OK.  We can either be pleasantly surprised or sit there if he succeeds or in callous indifference if he fails.  Wilson is Schrödinger's QB.  

You can't be a fan without being emotionally invested.  If you've been a fan of the Jets for over 30 years and haven't been detoxed or in a rehab clinic at least twice you're a fake fan.  Fan is fanatical, indifference is not a real option for a fan.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Biggs said:

You think Zach is going to wash out.  It's been your opinion since day 1.  What difference does a vet JAG make?  The support system is the coaches and the guys who are going to be playing with him.  

Zach never won or lost a game BYU did.   There are no examples of Vet 2nd tier guys helping develop a QB.  There's some hindsight of successful QB's who were drafted by good teams with good QB's who didn't start right away.

I know this is hard to accept and it's not as fun to pay attention when I say this type of stuff but I've steady maintained, I have no F'ing clue what these guys are going to be like at the next level.  I wasnt high on this class.  I dont have the conviction I did around say Watson/Mahomes.   Consequently, my preference was to gamble on the freak prospects (Fields or Lance) over Wilson because I think he's a major project that you're having to break down and start all over with from scratch.  So for that reason, I'd prefer him to sit on the bench and learn because I think that's the best way for  him to find success in this league.  I dont have confidence in the kid so I'm nervous that throwing him into the fire day 1 is going to be a career ruining move.  He's a project, has super duper high bust potential, has maturity issues and he's going to be playing for the worst team in Football for a rookie HC, a first time play caller in a division with 3 of the best defensive minds in the game surrounded by first and second year players.  I'm sorry if this is an unpopular opinion but that smells like absolute disaster waiting to happen.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Lurker89 said:

Most Jets fan at the moment:

Happy Sound Of Music GIF

 

Me:

The Office Reaction GIF

 

 

12 hours ago, jgb said:

Just wait until Darnold has a good quarter of football in Carolina.

 

11 hours ago, jgb said:

And that any article that is less than fawning must be part of a vast anti-Jets media conspiracy.

 

Missed you.  A voice of reason cutting through the Pollyanna BS.  

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I dont think the wins matter...but the performance is scary.

Kyle Trask with half the skill set, threw for 400 yards and 3 TD's vs. the best team in the Nation in the SEC Champ game.  While I dont love Trask as a prospect, that's the type of stuff you want your QB doing when they play up...not 1 TD and 7 picks. 

You know I'm not a huge supporting cast guy....but are the Florida weppinz vs BYU weppinz not relevant to the discussion?

And yes, I get that that doesn't fully explain away the gap in performance.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You know I'm not a huge supporting cast guy....but are the Florida weppinz vs BYU weppinz not relevant to the discussion?

Sure but they were playing a team with 5 times the talent.  Florida didnt start a single 5 star on the team, anywhere.  Bama had 19.  Basically, their entire starting 22 are 5 star recruits.  We sent the same amount of players to the NFL but the overall point I was making is that I think Wilson is 10x the prospect of Trask but he doesnt have any examples of playing up.  That was just 1 example of Trask.  Georgia, LSU, A&M, etc.  Trask went mental.  I do think there is something to say about playing your best ball vs. the best competition (even if its right sized for your conference) on the biggest stage.

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Watching the draft all 3 days in [mention=32889]TheMo[/mention]'s Zoom room...  discussion on day 3 was how the consensus on here saying how JD is "killing it" in this draft.  In theory, maybe, but the overall evaluation of JD "killing it" will be whether or not Wilson pans out.  Not Moore.  Not Carter.  Not the puppy litter of DBs either.  It's all about Wilson.  Until he we know what we have, there is no "killing it".
Totally Agree .. this draft ... and JDs evaluation now rest w/ Wilson.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

Link to post
Share on other sites
Nobody is above making fun of Wilson's appearance.  That's pure BS and Tom Shane will back me up on this.
Can you imagine the kickback if Fields got the same treatment????

There would be a banathon.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

  • Thumb Down 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I know this is hard to accept and it's not as fun to pay attention when I say this type of stuff but I've steady maintained, I have no F'ing clue what these guys are going to be like at the next level.  I wasnt high on this class.  I dont have the conviction I did around say Watson/Mahomes.   Consequently, my preference was to gamble on the freak prospects (Fields or Lance) over Wilson because I think he's a major project that you're having to break down and start all over with from scratch.  So for that reason, I'd prefer him to sit on the bench and learn because I think that's the best way for  him to find success in this league.  I dont have confidence in the kid so I'm nervous that throwing him into the fire day 1 is going to be a career ruining move.  He's a project, has super duper high bust potential, has maturity issues and he's going to be playing for the worst team in Football for a rookie HC, a first time play caller in a division with 3 of the best defensive minds in the game surrounded by first and second year players.  I'm sorry if this is an unpopular opinion but that smells like absolute disaster waiting to happen.

 I accept that you think he sucks and is going to bust.  You've been clear as day on that.  No need to apologize.  But why lie about having a vet Jag on the team?  It's clearly BS.  You  think he sucks and is going to bust.  Frankly if the Jets GM and coaching staff get this wrong the team will be blown up again, rinse repeat.  The backup vet jag doesn't change that.   

FYI your comment that the Jets are the worst team in football is very telling.   Nobody has a clue of what the worst team in the NFL for the 2021 season is going to look like.  The odds of the Jets being the worst team in football is extremely low.   As bad as last years team was we weren't the worst team in football and I suspect we will be better than last year and some teams will be worse just based on statistical probability.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Biggs said:

 I accept that you think he sucks and is going to bust.  You've been clear as day on that.  No need to apologize.  But why lie about having a vet Jag on the team?  It's clearly BS.  You  think he sucks and is going to bust.  Frankly if the Jets GM and coaching staff get this wrong the team will be blown up again, rinse repeat.  The backup vet jag doesn't change that.   

FYI your comment that the Jets are the worst team in football is very telling.   Nobody has a clue of what the worst team in the NFL for the 2021 season is going to look like.  The odds of the Jets being the worst team in football is extremely low.   As bad as last years team was we weren't the worst team in football and I suspect we will be better than last year and some teams will be worse just based on statistical probability.  

Dont be one of these posters that are going to read what I post and not take what I'm saying seriously simply because I wanted a different QB.  I'm over it,  have been over it and I'm discussing how to make Wilson successful now that he's the future of the Jets.  Why continue having this conversation with me if what I type doesnt matter and you're just going to formulate an opinion of what I really want?  I have 20 posters doing that to me daily, I really dont need another, especially from someone I've been posting with for years. 

I dont have confidence in Wilson right now.  Yes.  He makes me nervous because I think he's a project.  But I'm not saying he's is going bust, I dont have a crystal ball.  I'm saying the probability is high so I'd like to mitigate that by having a veteran presence in the locker room for multiple reason;

- you're not forced to start Wilson if he's not ready.  We've seen around the league that sitting and learning is a good thing; Brady, Mahomes and Rodgers are the 3 best QB's I've ever watched in my life, all of them sat and watch and learned from the bench.  

- he has someone to help him through the season who wears a jersey because I believe whole heartedly it's a different perspective then just the coaching staff, I dont like the idea of the person being James Morgan.

- if Wilson is injured we dont need another Luke Faulk scenario with Morgan.  There are still players that need to be developed and need to be evaluated and starting a guy who cant complete a forward pass doesnt give you that chance.

I dont know who you think the Jets are better then, but I dont think the list is long.  Would it make you feel better if I said bottom 5 roster in the NF?  Fine, well, the reality is the difference between those 5 are paper thin, so does it matter if they're the worst or 2nd worst or 3rd worst?  No because the reality is, they're a bad team with very little talent and they're relying on a bunch of youngsters and a rookie coaching staff.  I dont think it's  stretch to say the Jets arent going to be very good.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I know this is hard to accept and it's not as fun to pay attention when I say this type of stuff but I've steady maintained, I have no F'ing clue what these guys are going to be like at the next level.  I wasnt high on this class.  I dont have the conviction I did around say Watson/Mahomes.   Consequently, my preference was to gamble on the freak prospects (Fields or Lance) over Wilson because I think he's a major project that you're having to break down and start all over with from scratch.  So for that reason, I'd prefer him to sit on the bench and learn because I think that's the best way for  him to find success in this league. 

I understand Fields, but Trey Lance at #3 had to be the riskiest pick of the day. He's in the right place with Garoppolo in front of him, maybe spending the entire season on the bench. The Jets could not have made that move. Wilson became pretty much the consensus #2 QB in the draft, and that's who the Jets took at #2. I understand a lot of the concerns about him, but I can't fault the pick. I think these freaks still have to become competent throwers to be successful in the NFL and, if they do, their coaches will look to get them to stop running despite their abilities in that regard. 

40 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I dont have confidence in the kid so I'm nervous that throwing him into the fire day 1 is going to be a career ruining move.  He's a project, has super duper high bust potential, has maturity issues and he's going to be playing for the worst team in Football for a rookie HC, a first time play caller in a division with 3 of the best defensive minds in the game surrounded by first and second year players.  I'm sorry if this is an unpopular opinion but that smells like absolute disaster waiting to happen.

This is why I have very low win-loss expectations for the team this season. Everybody's learning on the job. Rookie head coach, first time play caller, rookie QB, etc. Just too much that would have to go their way to see a lot of wins this year. That said, I'm not going to be writing anyone's epitaph after this season, either. This is the foundation year. A lot of mistakes are going to be made and hopefully a lot of lessons will be learned from them. 

Plenty of QBs have overcome rough rookie seasons to have HoF type careers. I want to see flashes early, and steady growth thru the year. If that doesn't happen, it's not like that will be anything new for me. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, slats said:

I understand Fields, but Trey Lance at #3 had to be the riskiest pick of the day. He's in the right place with Garoppolo in front of him, maybe spending the entire season on the bench. The Jets could not have made that move. Wilson became pretty much the consensus #2 QB in the draft, and that's who the Jets took at #2. I understand a lot of the concerns about him, but I can't fault the pick. I think these freaks still have to become competent throwers to be successful in the NFL and, if they do, their coaches will look to get them to stop running despite their abilities in that regard. 

This is why I have very low win-loss expectations for the team this season. Everybody's learning on the job. Rookie head coach, first time play caller, rookie QB, etc. Just too much that would have to go their way to see a lot of wins this year. That said, I'm not going to be writing anyone's epitaph after this season, either. This is the foundation year. A lot of mistakes are going to be made and hopefully a lot of lessons will be learned from them. 

Plenty of QBs have overcome rough rookie seasons to have HoF type careers. I want to see flashes early, and steady growth thru the year. If that doesn't happen, it's not like that will be anything new for me. 

Fair and under any normal circumstances; I'd have been very wary of Lance but when you see all he brings to the table and the fact he can throw 30 TD's/2 picks in his career....that's exciting.  I mean, Shannahan might be the offensive mind in the biz and he took him and obviously I'm very confident in Fields ability to throw.  I just like the threat and stress guys like that put on a D.  I'm fine with Wilson, I dont agree but as I've said, I love what JD has done to surround him and I think he's created flexibility with all these picks that he can miss and it wont be devastating.

The rest, we agree to disagree.  And that's cool. Obviously if I had more confidence in Wilson I'd probably feel different but guess what?  I would have wanted the same thing for Fields or Lance...

 

 

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, JiFapono said:

lmfao - you dont like Justin Fields because he's black.  GTFO out here with your self righteous holier than thou, I'm above making fun of Zach Wilson's appearance and anyone who does should be ashamed of themselves.  You're literally running around this forum posting pictures of Kid n Play anytime anyone mentions Justin Fields name or anytime someone who supported him talks about him.  It's disgusting, racist and complete hypocritical bull sh*t after posting this nonsense.  Meanwhile, there is another thread making fun of Mac Jones looks and you're no where to be found.  We all know who you are, you dont disguise it, you're vocal about who you are, so own it and dont start acting like you're better than anyone else.  

All of this.

Spot on.

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/4/2021 at 8:46 AM, Jdub03 said:

The 2020 NFL avg. sacks per game was 2.2. The Jets finished 24th with 2.7, but was 2.3 the final 3 games of the year. With the addition of Vera Tucker, a new scheme, a real training camp and off-season these should improve further in 2021. Sam definitely helped these numbers though with his escapability. We'll see if Zach can be as elusive. 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/qb-sacked-per-game

Yeah where did it suddenly get written that "30" was the significant cutoff number? The NFL average isn't under 2 sacks per game.

Just on its own look at how many designed plays went to the backs on the Jets these past 2 years, compared to other teams that bring down that league average. Then compound that with how often the play was designed to go to the TE. Crowder & Griffin had about 100 short-route targets, but that isn't very many. 

Also wonder if it's mere coincidence that Flacco (not exactly a mobile QB, nor with the fastest release in the NFL) had a sack rate of just 5%. 

So, a QB who wasn't too great at getting rid of the ball even when protection was there. Combine that with not enough designed short yardage plays to his TE & backs, amazingly even when all of the starting WRs were injured. Combine that with OL personnel that not only was less than elite across the board, but were also all new to each other and with limited preseason time together. Then the cherry on top was an OL coach in Frank Pollack with no history of success absent 3/5 of his line being 1st team all-pros who'd been under Bill Callahan's guidance for a few years (not even counting La'el Collins, who honestly took 3 seasons to get it despite all that help on the line plus Pollack's coaching) in Dallas. 

Unless McGovern has truly forgotten how to play, in addressing all of the above the OL won't be nearly as bad as people are expecting. The rest of it, of course, is on Wilson. If he thinks he's just going to drop back for 5 seconds by juking every pass rusher with an insignificant shimmy move, he's going to eat a lot of turf. But presumably the coaches are going to address this with him; I hardly think this concept is lost on them. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

Dont be one of these posters that are going to read what I post and not take what I'm saying seriously simply because I wanted a different QB.  I'm over it,  have been over it and I'm discussing how to make Wilson successful now that he's the future of the Jets.  Why continue having this conversation with me if what I type doesnt matter and you're just going to formulate an opinion of what I really want?  I have 20 posters doing that to me daily, I really dont need another, especially from someone I've been posting with for years. 

I dont have confidence in Wilson right now.  Yes.  He makes me nervous because I think he's a project.  But I'm not saying he's is going bust, I dont have a crystal ball.  I'm saying the probability is high so I'd like to mitigate that by having a veteran presence in the locker room for multiple reason;

- you're not forced to start Wilson if he's not ready.  We've seen around the league that sitting and learning is a good thing; Brady, Mahomes and Rodgers are the 3 best QB's I've ever watched in my life, all of them sat and watch and learned from the bench.  

- he has someone to help him through the season who wears a jersey because I believe whole heartedly it's a different perspective then just the coaching staff, I dont like the idea of the person being James Morgan.

- if Wilson is injured we dont need another Luke Faulk scenario with Morgan.  There are still players that need to be developed and need to be evaluated and starting a guy who cant complete a forward pass doesnt give you that chance.

I dont know who you think the Jets are better then, but I dont think the list is long.  Would it make you feel better if I said bottom 5 roster in the NF?  Fine, well, the reality is the difference between those 5 are paper thin, so does it matter if they're the worst or 2nd worst or 3rd worst?  No because the reality is, they're a bad team with very little talent and they're relying on a bunch of youngsters and a rookie coaching staff.  I dont think it's  stretch to say the Jets arent going to be very good.

Every example of a QB sitting and waiting and being successful doesn't prove it helped them. If anything it probably is evidence that it was a good team with a competent starter that the coaching staff felt they could win with that year.  You're using an example of hindsight as evidence.  It's not evidence of anything.  It's a talking point and frankly nonsense.  Mahomes sitting for a year might have cost KC a second SB?  Favre trying to figure out his expiration date may have cost the Packers a SB and set Rodgers back a year or two?  Who knows.  

Show me evidence of a crappy team with a backup QB lossing games took the pressure of the coaching staff to not throw in a rookie who wasn't ready?  

I was glad Luke Falk was thrown in.  We know Luke Falk isn't the answer even as a backup.  It would be nice to know if Morgan might be.  

I don't know who we are better or worse than.  I haven't seen our final roster, I don't know how last years draft class is going to develop or this years or how the FA's will mesh.  I also don't have that information for the other 31 teams.  We could be better than a lot of NFL teams in 2021.  Injuries happen and players nobody has heard of step up and become stars.  

FYI stop with "one of these posters"  I'm responding to your post.  I have no clue who you are and really don't care.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/4/2021 at 9:14 AM, The Crusher said:

Yeah Morgan be like hiring a life coach that hasn’t been born yet. 

Or hiring Crusher to plan a diet menu at a fat farm..B)

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Biggs said:

Every example of a QB sitting and waiting and being successful doesn't prove it helped them. If anything it probably is evidence that it was a good team with a competent starter that the coaching staff felt they could win with that year.  You're using an example of hindsight as evidence.  It's not evidence of anything.  It's a talking point and frankly nonsense.  Mahomes sitting for a year might have cost KC a second SB?  Favre trying to figure out his expiration date may have cost the Packers a SB and set Rodgers back a year or two?  Who knows.  

Show me evidence of a crappy team with a backup QB lossing games took the pressure of the coaching staff to not throw in a rookie who wasn't ready?  

I was glad Luke Falk was thrown in.  We know Luke Falk isn't the answer even as a backup.  It would be nice to know if Morgan might be.  

I don't know who we are better or worse than.  I haven't seen our final roster, I don't know how last years draft class is going to develop or this years or how the FA's will mesh.  I also don't have that information for the other 31 teams.  We could be better than a lot of NFL teams in 2021.  Injuries happen and players nobody has heard of step up and become stars.  

FYI stop with "one of these posters"  I'm responding to your post.  I have no clue who you are and really don't care.

I dont think I used anything as an example but more a reference.  I simply said having the flexibility not to be forced to start a QB who is not ready, is a good thing.  The 3 greatest QB's I've ever seen play the position, sat on the bench for at least a 15 games.  I assumed they learned something in the process, maybe not but the reality is, they sat.  I'm not saying that is the only way and a full proof formula, I'm saying that's how I'd prefer Wilson be handled.  If you think that's nonsense, cool.   I dont, I think it's wise.

Your second question doesnt really make any sense.  In the past few seasons we've seen a few great to good QBs start their career on the bench behind crappy QB's.  I assume in those scenarios, yes, there was some level of pressure relief for the coaching staff, otherwise, why would they start over the rookie?   On the flipside, there is only 1 example in the history of the league where a rookie QB and rookie HC have had success together, Johnson and Aikman.

Cool, we disagree on the roster.  Apparently you think its going to get significantly better from now till then and everyone will have injuries except the Jets and because of the lack of information on teams in the NFL, I can totally see how you have now idea who's going to be good next year and who's not.  It is very complex.

FYI - you told me what I really believe, that's not exactly just "responding" but I'll make sure I mind my how I talk to you from now on because clearly you're really cool and tough and you're so carefree it's intimidating. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, JiFapono said:

lmfao - you dont like Justin Fields because he's black.  GTFO out here with your self righteous holier than thou, I'm above making fun of Zach Wilson's appearance and anyone who does should be ashamed of themselves.  You're literally running around this forum posting pictures of Kid n Play anytime anyone mentions Justin Fields name or anytime someone who supported him talks about him.  It's disgusting, racist and complete hypocritical bull sh*t after posting this nonsense.  Meanwhile, there is another thread making fun of Mac Jones looks and you're no where to be found.  We all know who you are, you dont disguise it, you're vocal about who you are, so own it and dont start acting like you're better than anyone else.  

Yep. Thanks for saying what no one else (including me) has the balls to say. Anyone who's followed the forum for any period of extended time can see this.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Yep. Thanks for saying what no one else (including me) has the balls to say. Anyone who's followed the forum for any period of extended time can see this.

I edited my post to include this; but the guy started a thread with that Kid N Play picture making fun of Justin Fields in which he admitted that he thought he was going to get banned for posting it.  Go figure he's a complete hypocrite as well.  It's kind of their thing.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I dont think I used anything as an example but more a reference.  I simply said having the flexibility not to be forced to start a QB who is not ready, is a good thing.  The 3 greatest QB's I've ever seen play the position, sat on the bench for at least a 15 games.  I assumed they learned something in the process, maybe not but the reality is, they sat.  I'm not saying that is the only way and a full proof formula, I'm saying that's how I'd prefer Wilson be handled.  If you think that's nonsense, cool.   I dont, I think it's wise.

Your second question doesnt really make any sense.  In the past few seasons we've seen a few great to good QBs start their career on the bench behind crappy QB's.  I assume in those scenarios, yes, there was some level of pressure relief for the coaching staff, otherwise, why would they start over the rookie?   On the flipside, there is only 1 example in the history of the league where a rookie QB and rookie HC have had success together, Johnson and Aikman.

Cool, we disagree on the roster.  Apparently you think its going to get significantly better from now till then and everyone will have injuries except the Jets and because of the lack of information on teams in the NFL, I can totally see how you have now idea who's going to be good next year and who's not.  It is very complex.

FYI - you told me what I really believe, that's not exactly just "responding" but I'll make sure I mind my how I talk to you from now on because clearly you're really cool and tough and you're so carefree it's intimidating. 

Watson started as a rookie.  Kyler Murray and Kliff Kingsbury started as rookie HC and QB.  Carson Wentz and Doug Peterson were rookie HC starting QB.  

Joe Borrow was the opening day starter last year.  I believe

How about examples of all those great QB's who were developed by second rate Vets on bad teams. 

Tyrod Taylor who obviously developed Mayfield and Herbert isn't available.

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Watson started as a rookie.  Kyler Murray and Kliff Kingsbury started as rookie HC and QB.  Carson Wentz and Doug Peterson were rookie HC starting QB.  

Joe Borrow was the opening day starter last year.  I believe

How about examples of all those great QB's who were developed by second rate Vets on bad teams. 

Tyrod Taylor who obviously developed Mayfield and Herbert isn't available.

Cool.  Maybe the coaching staff felt ready to start those guys week 1?   I bet if you asked Bill O'Brien (or not cuz he's an idiot) but I bet he wishes his back ups werent Tom Savage and TJ Yates when the Texans proceed to go 1-9 w/ out Watson or maybe the Bengals wish they had something better then Allen?  I'd like to mitigate that if it unfortunately happens to Wilson because I think that could hold back the development of the offense, especially a guy like Mims who was wasted away last year when healthy.  In general, I value a back up.  We recently saw one win a SB and it seems every season, it's wise to have one.  Helping develop Wilson is 1 part of the equation.  I have given you multiple reasons why I think there is value in the veteran presence beyond "developing", not sure why you keep making it solely about this 1 piece.  If anything, that is the least important of my reasons why.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Biggs said:

Every example of a QB sitting and waiting and being successful doesn't prove it helped them. If anything it probably is evidence that it was a good team with a competent starter that the coaching staff felt they could win with that year.  You're using an example of hindsight as evidence.  It's not evidence of anything.  It's a talking point and frankly nonsense.  Mahomes sitting for a year might have cost KC a second SB?  Favre trying to figure out his expiration date may have cost the Packers a SB and set Rodgers back a year or two?  Who knows.  

Show me evidence of a crappy team with a backup QB lossing games took the pressure of the coaching staff to not throw in a rookie who wasn't ready?  

I was glad Luke Falk was thrown in.  We know Luke Falk isn't the answer even as a backup.  It would be nice to know if Morgan might be.  

I don't know who we are better or worse than.  I haven't seen our final roster, I don't know how last years draft class is going to develop or this years or how the FA's will mesh.  I also don't have that information for the other 31 teams.  We could be better than a lot of NFL teams in 2021.  Injuries happen and players nobody has heard of step up and become stars.  

FYI stop with "one of these posters"  I'm responding to your post.  I have no clue who you are and really don't care.

I think Mahomes and Rodgers were different situations altogether, and not just because their teams were already contenders with or without the new QB getting drafted. They were deemed bigger projects than some others because their mechanics needed reworking. Brady isn't even in the discussion, seeing how he started out the summer 4th on the depth chart. He sat because he was behind $100MM Drew Bledsoe, not because the team felt he needed to sit a year before starting. There's no evidence that his career would've been any less of a success if he'd been drafted in rounds 2 or 3 and then started as a rookie. 

IIRC Watson was also deemed to be a guy who absolutely had to sit as a rookie; he came in and - after O'Brien briefly kept it very conservative for the week 1 mop-up second half, plus his week 2 start - he let it loose week 3 against NE's top 5 defense. From week 4 until he got hurt he was a stud already in Sept of his rookie year, throwing 4 TDs/game. 

There are also other QBs like P.Manning who felt it was necessary to get his lumps in and his turnover-filled rookie season was a necessary learning experience. His brother was benched the first half of his rookie year, but it didn't seem to do much, seeing how he was sub-Geno level for 5 of his first 6 starts (literally 2 full starts with a QB rating under 20), losing all 6 in a row.

If the Colts say Peyton Manning as a rookie, it's a certainty that his eventual success would be attributed to holding a clipboard in 1998. Ditto Herbert if he'd sat in 2020, and any number of successful QBs in between them who started as rookies: Russell Wilson, Watson, Prescott, Roethlisberger, Ryan, Murray, Luck, Palmer, and more. 

I don't know if Wilson is ready or not, but a big leg up he has on Rodgers and Mahomes as a rookie is they're not reworking his mechanics, and the latter admits he was then slow at breaking down film. No that doesn't mean he's going to nearly equal just about the 2 best QBs ever. I think there are some things he needs to work on - as would any rookie QB even if they're ready - but it's more of getting it out of his system that he's not a one man show playing against all creampuffs anymore. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

BTW here's an interesting article about sitting QBs as rookies. 

It's just one guy's opinion, so take that for what it's worth, but he does provide at least some rationalization that QBs are better off starting as rookies. I'd imagine if any coaches felt the QB was totally unready/unprepared for the experience that would overrule any general trends. 

https://www.actionnetwork.com/nfl/patrick-mahomes-kansas-city-chiefs-rookie-quarterback-analysis-2019

Doesn't make him right, and I liked that he at least admits correlation isn't causation instead of blindly conflating the two, but it's an interesting read. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...