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9 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

This has devolved to a point where I think it's best to just move on. Suffice to say I think we see things through a much different prism. Good luck to you.

Good luck to you as well.  Hope you get filthy rich and diversify your portfolio to reduce the risk.  

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Bitcoin won’t replace currency but it’s the new digital gold for sure as a store of value. It’s fundamentally sound with a finite amount. The government can print money any time they want and there’s

A sure sign we are heading toward an epic depression.   This is a duplication of the "tulip" bubble in Holland in the 1600's.  

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18 hours ago, WhartonJet said:

Maybe you would be able to afford a house if you bought bitcoin

 

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

You really shouldn't  speak about things you don't  know. I sold a 2 million dollar home 5 years  ago in the Kingspoint section of Great Neck when i got divorce. This is my second Co-op i ever bought. Always owned a house otherwise, but keep telling me I don't  know how to run my finances.  At this stage in my life I work because I want to, not because I have to.  

 

Maybe your wife would have stayed married to you if you bought bitcoin

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2 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

This thread went from fun to depressing quickly I see.

We have a penchant for that around here.

I have some play money in the market and have the smallest handful of crypto.... 

But I'm really just banking on the AI singularity to arrive sooner rather than later and treat us like the ant hill that we are.

 Just waiting for AI say ewww and eradicate us into oblivion.... I mean look at us, we are disgusting and we don't even make good pets.

We're like 20% awesome and 80% trash. There is no objective reason to keep us around. Here's to hoping we create our own extinction and and rid reality of our putird existence. 🍻

If so we will be remembered as the putrid larva form of AI, a sad but necessary  step in the metamorphosis.

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1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

This has devolved to a point where I think it's best to just move on. Suffice to say I think we see things through a much different prism. Good luck to you.

From a distance I'd say you and I see things through a similar prism.

I'm fully diversified, have accounts that  are just holding indices, have a play account for penny stocks, have 2 separate 401Ks and I'm holding some Crypto... Not enough but some.

None of these accounts are very big as I'm 32 years old and mostly focused on work and family life. But I have a general healthy distrust in all government and realize their are no good guys or bad guys on a world stage. There are merely different parties acting in their own self interests mostly in bad faith, maybe a hobbesian world view but humans are mostly terrible. 

I should have more than the $500 in crypto that I have right now as a hedge but I just don't care enough these days to go to my wife and say " hey we should throw a few grand into crypto"

Call it apathy call it a sick hope we spiral harder and faster.... Wouldn't mind watching Rome burn in a day.

I'd rather have Mad Max than 1984.

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4 hours ago, WhartonJet said:

 

Maybe your wife would have stayed married to you if you bought bitcoin

Good job getting the thread moved. 

Oh, btw, of you ever want to see what a bag a dicks looks like, find a mirror. 

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What you are describing is timing the market which is luck, and I pay a fee based on performance. When I make money, they make money. 
I bought heavy in the housing crash and the pandemic and its paid off massively

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I mean, 10 bitcoin is worth the same whether you bought it in 2012 or 2021. I get the point you're trying to make but showing a percentage increase would have been a more effective way of making it IMO.
If you bought Amazon at its IPO .. guess what ? You'd be rich.



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I've seen a lot of crypto skeptics who have had some somewhat valid points. The nonsense this guy keeps spewing is about as clueless as it gets. The 2012 - 2017 comment I honestly thought was made in jest, but nope, Just wants to keep digging that hole he's buried himself in. No need to argue with people like this who aren't debating in good faith. Let him listen to his adviser and we will continue to make laughably larger returns than he ever will.
What exactly is backing the value of a bitcoin ???

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I don't get why you keep conflating capitalism and debasing fiat currency. This country has always been capitalist and was using the gold standard until the 1900's.
Gold is a tangible limited commodity ... what is bitcoins equivelant?

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8 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Gold is a tangible limited commodity ... what is bitcoins equivelant?

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There is no equivalent to bitcoin. Gold is limited, bitcoin is finite. 21 million is all that will ever exist. It is the hardest money that ever existed. 

 

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16 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

What exactly is backing the value of a bitcoin ???

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The value of bitcoin is that human kind no longer has to rely on central banks and governments who have a long history of devaluing their money supplies. We now have permission-less hard money that can be easily transferred across the globe. 

Any money only has value because people agree it has value. The US dollar used to be back by gold. Now it is a sh*tcoin with an unlimited supply that is consistently debased.

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The value of bitcoin is that human kind no longer has to rely on central banks and governments who have a long history of devaluing their money supplies. We now have permission-less hard money that can be easily transferred across the globe. 
Any money only has value because people agree it has value. The US dollar used to be back by gold. Now it is a sh*tcoin with an unlimited supply that is consistently debased.
Right ... but I'm not investing in the dollar ... I'm investing in companies.

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If you do not see the value in bitcoin you shouldn't buy any.
I just dont know if its close to its peak ... and I worry about regulation because once that happens I'm not sure its recovery will be anywhere near the growth its enjoyed.

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33 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

I just dont know if its close to its peak ... and I worry about regulation because once that happens I'm not sure its recovery will be anywhere near the growth its enjoyed.

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Regulation is necessary for things like ETFs, 401Ks & pension plans to buy. Any of those would inject massive liquidity. If you believe bitcoin is digital gold, and will eventually replace gold as a store of value then just look at the market cap of gold and bitcoin and make your own conclusions.

my opinion is that it's no where near the peak but I'm just Barry McCockinner on a football forum.

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On 6/3/2021 at 11:41 AM, More Cowbell said:

image57-f97260e2c17742ea80b289cff17378e2.webp 17.62 kB · 5 downloads

Here is a 10 year chart of Bitcoim

 As you can see from 2012 to 2017, it did just about nothing and in 2017 a bubble formed which crashed for the entire year of 2018. In 2019 it formed a second bubble and had a series of mini crashes before the year was out. Since early 2020, it has had a dramatic rise. If you feel it is going to be a great long term investment, more power to you. This chart suggests it's more likely another bubble. 

Now look at the 10 year chart on the S&P 500. More or less straight up. That is a bull market. 

snp500-10y-300x200.png

I found a good site that shows and compares how dollar cost averaging into bitcoin vs gold vs dow looks over different time frames. I went ahead and charted out $10/week DCA for all the time frames available on the site from 6 months -> 9 years. You'll see that only the shortest time frame has gold & dow ahead of bitcoin. The shortest timeframe is more of a "time the market" attempt which you and I bold disagree with. 

https://dcabtc.com?sd=2020-12-06&sda=6_months&f=weekly&d=6_months&ac=1000&c=true

https://dcabtc.com?sd=2020-06-06&sda=1_year&f=weekly&d=1_year&ac=1000&c=true

https://dcabtc.com?sd=2019-06-06&sda=2_years&f=weekly&d=2_years&ac=1000&c=true

https://dcabtc.com?sd=2018-06-06&sda=3_years&f=weekly&d=3_years&ac=1000&c=true

https://dcabtc.com?sd=2017-06-06&sda=4_years&f=weekly&d=4_years&ac=1000&c=true

https://dcabtc.com?sd=2016-06-06&sda=5_years&f=weekly&d=5_years&ac=1000&c=true

https://dcabtc.com?sd=2015-06-06&sda=6_years&f=weekly&d=6_years&ac=1000&c=true

https://dcabtc.com?sd=2014-06-06&sda=7_years&f=weekly&d=7_years&ac=1000&c=true

https://dcabtc.com?sd=2013-06-06&sda=8_years&f=weekly&d=8_years&ac=1000&c=true

https://dcabtc.com?sd=2012-06-06&sda=9_years&f=weekly&d=9_years&ac=1000&c=true


Of course the further back you go the more ridiculous the bitcoin gains become because it's an emerging asset and the early gains were the biggest.

Feel free to play around with different time frames. I doubt you can find a 4+ year period where bitcoin isn't the best performing.

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1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I found a good site that shows and compares how dollar cost averaging into bitcoin vs gold vs dow looks over different time frames. I went ahead and charted out $10/week DCA for all the time frames available on the site from 6 months -> 9 years. You'll see that only the shortest time frame has gold & dow ahead of bitcoin. The shortest timeframe is more of a "time the market" attempt which you and I bold disagree with. 

https://dcabtc.com?sd=2020-12-06&sda=6_months&f=weekly&d=6_months&ac=1000&c=true

https://dcabtc.com?sd=2020-06-06&sda=1_year&f=weekly&d=1_year&ac=1000&c=true

https://dcabtc.com?sd=2019-06-06&sda=2_years&f=weekly&d=2_years&ac=1000&c=true

https://dcabtc.com?sd=2018-06-06&sda=3_years&f=weekly&d=3_years&ac=1000&c=true

https://dcabtc.com?sd=2017-06-06&sda=4_years&f=weekly&d=4_years&ac=1000&c=true

https://dcabtc.com?sd=2016-06-06&sda=5_years&f=weekly&d=5_years&ac=1000&c=true

https://dcabtc.com?sd=2015-06-06&sda=6_years&f=weekly&d=6_years&ac=1000&c=true

https://dcabtc.com?sd=2014-06-06&sda=7_years&f=weekly&d=7_years&ac=1000&c=true

https://dcabtc.com?sd=2013-06-06&sda=8_years&f=weekly&d=8_years&ac=1000&c=true

https://dcabtc.com?sd=2012-06-06&sda=9_years&f=weekly&d=9_years&ac=1000&c=true


Of course the further back you go the more ridiculous the bitcoin gains become because it's an emerging asset and the early gains were the biggest.

Feel free to play around with different time frames. I doubt you can find a 4+ year period where bitcoin isn't the best performing.

Look, We have different philosophies. I invest in something and stay invested in it. The stock market has worked out great for me in that aspect. I don't  have to watch my investment take wild swings. If you have more of a stomach for that, more power to you. I stand by my 10 year assessment of crypto vs the S&P 500

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4 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Look, We have different philosophies. I invest in something and stay invested in it. The stock market has worked out great for me in that aspect. I don't  have to watch my investment take wild swings. If you have more of a stomach for that, more power to you. I stand by my 10 year assessment of crypto vs the S&P 500

but ... I literally just showed you the strategy you use "invest in something and stay invested in it" works better with bitcoin. 🤣

you are right about the wild swings but over time btc outperforms consistently. 

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6 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

but ... I literally just showed you the strategy you use "invest in something and stay invested in it" works better with bitcoin. 🤣

you are right about the wild swings but over time btc outperforms consistently. 

Whatever. You are not taking into consideration investment strategies  used in the market that crypto doesn't  offer. I hope you make a ton of money. 

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43 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Whatever. You are not taking into consideration investment strategies  used in the market that crypto doesn't  offer. I hope you make a ton of money. 

I would never want anyone to buy something they're not comfortable buying, so don't take my comments the wrong way. I'm just disagreeing with you saying bitcoin isn't a good long term investment as the facts show otherwise no matter how you slice it.

I am curious what strategies you're referring to though. I've been trying for years to get my companies 401k to allow me to buy bitcoin for years but it is impossible - not even legal.

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1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I would never want anyone to buy something they're not comfortable buying, so don't take my comments the wrong way. I'm just disagreeing with you saying bitcoin isn't a good long term investment as the facts show otherwise no matter how you slice it.

I am curious what strategies you're referring to though. I've been trying for years to get my companies 401k to allow me to buy bitcoin for years but it is impossible - not even legal.

It's  not really something i want to write about in a post. Let's just say there are a multitude  of ways to make money with stocks, with Crypto, you basically got one. 

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On 6/3/2021 at 2:39 PM, Biggs said:

This is pure nonsense.  We just had a pandemic.  We expanded the money supply to give people money to survive.  Yes it caused shortages and inflation because people weren't producing goods and services but they still were able to demand them.  People weren't thrown out of their homes or starving in the streat. Central banks can shrink the money supply and adjust.

Having a money supply that can expand and contract, regulated by responsible governing bodies is necessary for an expanding economy.   Since we left the gold standard and have become the worlds fiat currency, there has been more middle class people, less starvation and more economic growth then in the entire history of man when currency was backed by asets like gold.

Bitcoin is a tool of cyber criminals, it has no use whatsoever and will be regulated.  It has value as an asset as long as people are willing to pay for it.  It's simply digital gold.  

The very idea that people forming communities has shackled us is one of the most insane things I have ever read.  It's bat sh*t crazy.  We need each other and we need government to facilitate society moving forward.  

 

On 6/3/2021 at 3:21 PM, Biggs said:

Bitcoin is the tool of cyber criminals and that has to be reigned in.  It's a huge threat to our economy and key supply chains that we all depend on.  Cash transactions are monitored by the US government.  Denying that is absurd.  Of course criminals use cash.  They don't shut down oil lines, food lines and ask for millions in USD.  They ask for untraceable bitcoin.  That's going to end because it will be regulated.

Nobody on this board is buying digitial currency because they are worried about the stability of the US government alhough there is an argument to be made that we are near the end of our useful existence as a country.   That's been going on since day 1.  

It's an assett it's not a currency.  It's not generating cash flow, it's not innovative.  It's a static assett that's value is completely dependent on irrational/rational exuberance.  

 

Luckily, one of the benefits of cryptocurrency is that all transactions could be tracked and the criminals bitcoin can be recovered:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/07/politics/colonial-pipeline-ransomware-recovered/index.html

 

Cyber criminals have ways of covering their tracks but investigators are getting better at decoding and ultimately recovering the stolen bitcoin. 

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3 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

 

Luckily, one of the benefits of cryptocurrency is that all transactions could be tracked and the criminals bitcoin can be recovered:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/07/politics/colonial-pipeline-ransomware-recovered/index.html

 

Cyber criminals have ways of covering their tracks but investigators are getting better at decoding and ultimately recovering the stolen bitcoin. 

Assuming the US government did track and recover it means it’s also vulnerable to cyber criminals.  I suspect it’s worth considerable less after this announcement.   

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On 6/3/2021 at 3:21 PM, Biggs said:

Bitcoin is the tool of cyber criminals and that has to be reigned in.  It's a huge threat to our economy and key supply chains that we all depend on.  Cash transactions are monitored by the US government.  Denying that is absurd.  Of course criminals use cash.  They don't shut down oil lines, food lines and ask for millions in USD.  They ask for untraceable bitcoin.  That's going to end because it will be regulated.

Nobody on this board is buying digitial currency because they are worried about the stability of the US government alhough there is an argument to be made that we are near the end of our useful existence as a country.   That's been going on since day 1.  

It's an assett it's not a currency.  It's not generating cash flow, it's not innovative.  It's a static assett that's value is completely dependent on irrational/rational exuberance.  

 

Life is an irrational exuberance 

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4 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

 

Luckily, one of the benefits of cryptocurrency is that all transactions could be tracked and the criminals bitcoin can be recovered:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/07/politics/colonial-pipeline-ransomware-recovered/index.html

 

Cyber criminals have ways of covering their tracks but investigators are getting better at decoding and ultimately recovering the stolen bitcoin. 

did these morons store the coins on an exchange? 🤣

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16 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

 

Luckily, one of the benefits of cryptocurrency is that all transactions could be tracked and the criminals bitcoin can be recovered:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/07/politics/colonial-pipeline-ransomware-recovered/index.html

 

Cyber criminals have ways of covering their tracks but investigators are getting better at decoding and ultimately recovering the stolen bitcoin. 

So if this is a good thing, why did all the crypto currencies  take a drop today?

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16 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

We are talking about the FBI cybercrime unit.  They know how to hack. 

I don't know what happened but I think the most likely thing is that the criminals were incompetent and stored the private keys somewhere the FBI was able to get in to. It was not an exchange as I originally laughed about. The FBI documentation says they had the private keys.

The fact that they were able to get the pipeline hacked doesn't speak to their competence. Script kiddies can do that at this point - it's just a matter of fooling someone with a phishing attack and getting them to run the script you copied and configured to send to your address.

 

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30 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I don't know what happened but I think the most likely thing is that the criminals were incompetent and stored the private keys somewhere the FBI was able to get in to. It was not an exchange as I originally laughed about. The FBI documentation says they had the private keys.

The fact that they were able to get the pipeline hacked doesn't speak to their competence. Script kiddies can do that at this point - it's just a matter of fooling someone with a phishing attack and getting them to run the script you copied and configured to send to your address.

 

From what I read the criminals sent the bitcoin through 24 wallets and the FBI was able to to hack the last one it was in. The pipeline company was working with the FBI from the start. It seems they knew where the bitcoin was going and just had to wait until it went someplace that was vulnerable enough that they could go in and take it. It also seemed ro scare a lot of investors about security. I think some people thought this was a safe haven for drug money or similar  and just went into cash

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