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Bitcoin won’t replace currency but it’s the new digital gold for sure as a store of value. It’s fundamentally sound with a finite amount. The government can print money any time they want and there’s

A sure sign we are heading toward an epic depression.   This is a duplication of the "tulip" bubble in Holland in the 1600's.  

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3 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I don't understand what this means.

You can buy stuff that actually produces stuff and generates profits.   When you buy a company stock you're buying future earnings.  When you buy bitcoin or gold for that matter your buying an assett that doesn't generate future earnings.  

You're buying a value to scarcity argument on an assett that nobody needs and doesn't generate profits.  

That doesn't mean you can't make money on it.  

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19 hours ago, DetroitRed said:

If you are a recent buyer, then it’s a crash. If you’ve held Bitcoin for more than a year, you are way up

If you bought on margin more than a year ago and leveraged the buy you're way way up.   I bought my home in AZ in 2015 for 500K.  Put nothing down and sold  it for a million this past year.  That's a gain of infinity.  I did pay interest which was treated favorably by the IRS.  I also got to use the bathrooms to unload bad investments in dairy products.  

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1 hour ago, Biggs said:

You can buy stuff that actually produces stuff and generates profits.   When you buy a company stock you're buying future earnings.  When you buy bitcoin or gold for that matter your buying an assett that doesn't generate future earnings.  

You're buying a value to scarcity argument on an assett that nobody needs and doesn't generate profits.  

That doesn't mean you can't make money on it.  

I very much disagree that bitcoin is an asset that nobody needs. Throughout history governments have debased currencies, stealing value from citizens. Bitcoin unleashes humanity from the shackles of central banks and governments debasing us. We now can finally have separation of money and state. This is the value of bitcoin.

Bitcoin has typically outperformed every asset every major asset class since it has been released. I expect this to continue.

Where do you think we are in this cycle?

1570050933541?e=1628121600&v=beta&t=mdB-

Purchasing-Power-of-the-U.S.-Dollar-Over

 

"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks." - Satoshi Nakamoto

 

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1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

I just gotta say, we are on one of the biggest bull market runs in history and this is what you choose to invest in. 

At the start of this bull market run, if you had taken out all your money from the market and invested in Bitcoin you would be a very happy man.  

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13 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I think bitcoin outperforms the stock market consistently and is also in a bull market.

A bull market is when prices are rising all the time and buying is bound to succeed. I don't think anyone would seriously describe Crypto like that.

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8 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

A bull market is when prices are rising all the time and buying is bound to succeed. I don't think anyone would seriously describe Crypto like that.

Again, bitcoin consistently outperforms the stock market. See the chart I posted above. There is no point in history where anyone bought bitcoin, held for at least 4 years and didn't come out on top. If you play with fire and try to play the volatility and day trade, you will probably get burned.

bitcoin was $9,800 on June 4th, 2020 (1 year ago). It's $38,500 at the time of this post - about a 293% annual increase. Is that not good enough to be considered a bull market? If not, what metric are you looking for?

 

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28 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

At the start of this bull market run, if you had taken out all your money from the market and invested in Bitcoin you would be a very happy man.  

11 years ago? 

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Again, bitcoin consistently outperforms the stock market. See the chart I posted above. There is no point in history where anyone bought bitcoin, held for at least 4 years and didn't come out on top. If you play with fire and try to play the volatility and day trade, you will probably get burned.
bitcoin was $9,800 on June 4th, 2020 (1 year ago). It's $38,500 at the time of this post - about a 293% annual increase. Is that not good enough to be considered a bull market? If not, what metric are you looking for?
 
Tru ... I just prefer trading tangible material ... not imaginary.

Buy low and hold has worked for me.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

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12 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

11 years ago? 

Why not look at the charts for yourself and see how bitcoin has crushed the stock market on a consistent basis? 1 year, 4 years, 10 years. It doesn't matter. I will give you May was a terrible month for bitcoin. Given how quickly it had gone up, a correction was due.

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7 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Again, bitcoin consistently outperforms the stock market. See the chart I posted above. There is no point in history where anyone bought bitcoin, held for at least 4 years and didn't come out on top. If you play with fire and try to play the volatility and day trade, you will probably get burned.

bitcoin was $9,800 on June 4th, 2020 (1 year ago). It's $38,500 at the time of this post - about a 293% annual increase. Is that not good enough to be considered a bull market? If not, what metric are you looking for?

 

Everyone can point to a stock that went up like crazy over a short period of time. I have a considerable amount of money invested and I pay professionals to do it. I speak to them every few months and we talk about Crypto. It isn't an investible in their opinion. If this is where you want to be long term, I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise 

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58 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

 

Where do you think we are in this cycle?

1570050933541?e=1628121600&v=beta&t=mdB-

 

about the same place that Washington Football fans are now: D6nXOt3h.jpg

 

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16 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Why do you believe bitcoin is imaginary? 

It's a natural conclusion for someone who doesn't understand crypto assets to arrive at. I was the same way, years ago now, but was the same way. But the reality is crypto is doing for money what the internet did for information - we'll all concede as much at some point in the future.

The "black swan event" that could undo crypto would be the ability to counterfeit. If that happens, straight to zero ... to date know one can bypass or fool the blockchain.

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6 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Everyone can point to a stock that went up like crazy over a short period of time. I have a considerable amount of money invested and I pay professionals to do it. I speak to them every few months and we talk about Crypto. It isn't an investible in their opinion. If this is where you want to be long term, I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise 

What time frame are you looking at to consider a bull market?

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1 minute ago, sackdance said:

It's a natural conclusion for someone who doesn't understand crypto assets to arrive at. I was the same way, years ago now, but was the same way. Crypto is doing for money what the internet did for information.

The "black swan event" that could undo crypto would be the ability to counterfeit. If that happens, straight to zero ... to date know one can bypass or fool the blockchain.

One of the core properties of bitcoin/blockchain that you cannot counterfeit it. 

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36 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

11 years ago? 

Bitcoin is up an insane amount in the last 11 years. Far better than whatever anyone's stock portfolio looks like.

17 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Everyone can point to a stock that went up like crazy over a short period of time. I have a considerable amount of money invested and I pay professionals to do it. I speak to them every few months and we talk about Crypto. It isn't an investible in their opinion. If this is where you want to be long term, I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise 

Financial advisers have been telling their clients not to buy bitcoin since bitcoin was at 10 cents, $300, $3,0000 etc..  Now bitcoin is at 38k and you still think their advice on the subject is sound? 

 

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12 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

What time frame are you looking at to consider a bull market?

image57-f97260e2c17742ea80b289cff17378e2.webp

Here is a 10 year chart of Bitcoim

 As you can see from 2012 to 2017, it did just about nothing and in 2017 a bubble formed which crashed for the entire year of 2018. In 2019 it formed a second bubble and had a series of mini crashes before the year was out. Since early 2020, it has had a dramatic rise. If you feel it is going to be a great long term investment, more power to you. This chart suggests it's more likely another bubble. 

Now look at the 10 year chart on the S&P 500. More or less straight up. That is a bull market. 

snp500-10y-300x200.png

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18 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Bitcoin is up an insane amount in the last 11 years. Far better than whatever anyone's stock portfolio looks like.

Financial advisers have been telling their clients not to buy bitcoin since bitcoin was at 10 cents, $300, $3,0000 etc..  Now bitcoin is at 38k and you still think their advice on the subject is sound? 

 

Totally. I remodeled my entire apartment solely on the money they made me and keep making me. I have no problem with what they are doing. 

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26 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

One of the core properties of bitcoin/blockchain that you cannot counterfeit it. 

I'd say it's THE core property - and that's why I said if digital assets could ever be duped or backdoored it would be a straight shot to zero. No other event could make crypto assets worthless. Institutions, governments, and corporations are all-in.

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5 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

image57-f97260e2c17742ea80b289cff17378e2.webp 17.62 kB · 2 downloads

Here is a 10 year chart of Bitcoim

 As you can see from 2012 to 2017, it did just about nothing and in 2017 a bubble formed which crashed for the entire year of 2018. In 2019 it formed a second bubble and had a series of mini crashes before the year was out. Since early 2020, it has had a dramatic rise. If you feel it is going to be a great long term investment, more power to you. This chart suggests it's more likely another bubble. 

Now look at the 10 year chart on the S&P 500. More or less straight up. That is a bull market. 

snp500-10y-300x200.png

In October of 2013 Bitcoin was at 196. 
In December 2016 (before the "bubble") it was 952. 

That's an incredible return on investment. And that was before that "bubble". 

I really think you need to do your own research on this subject and not rely on your financial adviser that has zero incentive for you to go out and buy bitcoin on your own since he doesn't make commission on those transactions....

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4 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

image57-f97260e2c17742ea80b289cff17378e2.webp 17.62 kB · 2 downloads

Here is a 10 year chart of Bitcoim

 As you can see from 2012 to 2017, it did just about nothing and in 2017 a bubble formed which crashed for the entire year of 2018. In 2019 it formed a second bubble and had a series of mini crashes before the year was out. Since early 2020, it has had a dramatic rise. If you feel it is going to be a great long term investment, more power to you. This chart suggests it's more likely another bubble. 

Now look at the 10 year chart on the S&P 500. More or less straight up. That is a bull market. 

snp500-10y-300x200.png

Why won't you answer the question? What time frame are you looking at to define a bull market? You keep claiming bitcoin is not in one but won't define the most basic parameter.

As for you post. You addressed two time frames.

1st: 2012-2017 where you characterized bitcoin as "did just about nothing"

  • In 2012 the price of bitcoin was 5.27
  • In 2017 the price of bitcoin was 997.69

That's an increase of 18831.5%. Your characterization is ignorant at best.

2nd: You said to look at the 10 year chart. 

  • In 2011 the low bitcoin price was .92.
  • Today it is 38.5k.

That's an increase of 4184680% which again blows away the S&P 500. If the S&P 500 is in a 10 year bull market, how can you possibly say bitcoin isn't?

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3 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

In October of 2013 Bitcoin was at 196. 
In December 2016 (before the "bubble") it was 952. 

That's an incredible return on investment. And that was before that "bubble". 

I really think you need to do your own research on this subject and not rely on your financial adviser that has zero incentive for you to go out and buy bitcoin on your own since he doesn't make commission on those transactions....

Exactly.

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1 minute ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Why won't you answer the question? What time frame are you looking at to define a bull market? You keep claiming bitcoin is not in one but won't define the most basic parameter.

As for you post. You addressed two time frames.

1st: 2012-2017 where you characterized bitcoin as "did just about nothing"

  • In 2012 the price of bitcoin was 5.27
  • In 2017 the price of bitcoin was 997.69

That's an increase of 18831.5%. Your characterization is ignorant at best.

2nd: You said to look at the 10 year chart. 

  • In 2011 the low bitcoin price was .92.
  • Today it is 38.5k.

That's an increase of 4184680% which again blows away the S&P 500. If the S&P 500 is in a 10 year bull market, how can you possibly say bitcoin isn't?

People that failed to get into bitcoin/crypto early are all living in denial. I was one of them  back in the day when some of my friends were investing and I thought it was a gimmick. Then it shot up to 19k. Luckily it dipped back down 3k and that's when i got involved and have been buying the dips ever since. 

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48 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Everyone can point to a stock that went up like crazy over a short period of time. I have a considerable amount of money invested and I pay professionals to do it. I speak to them every few months and we talk about Crypto. It isn't an investible in their opinion. If this is where you want to be long term, I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise 

I'd be curious to meet the professional who would advise you to buy BTC. 

1) He'd receive no commission.  

2) Every cent of client money flowing into a coin leaves his purview, in other words his assets under management (AUM) goes down.  

#1 & #2 is what makes him a professional. 

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3 minutes ago, sackdance said:

I'd be curious to meet the professional who would advise you to buy BTC. 

1) He'd receive no commission.  

2) Every cent of client money flowing into a coin leaves his purview, in other words his assets under management (AUM) goes down.  

#1 & #2 is what makes him a professional. 

I don't think they're even legally allowed to do so.

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17 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

In October of 2013 Bitcoin was at 196. 
In December 2016 (before the "bubble") it was 952. 

That's an incredible return on investment. And that was before that "bubble". 

I really think you need to do your own research on this subject and not rely on your financial adviser that has zero incentive for you to go out and buy bitcoin on your own since he doesn't make commission on those transactions....

What you are describing is timing the market which is luck, and I pay a fee based on performance. When I make money, they make money. 

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15 minutes ago, sackdance said:

I'd be curious to meet the professional who would advise you to buy BTC. 

1) He'd receive no commission.  

2) Every cent of client money flowing into a coin leaves his purview, in other words his assets under management (AUM) goes down.  

#1 & #2 is what makes him a professional. 

Nobody ever advised me to buy that. 

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6 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

What you are describing is timing the market which is luck, and I pay a fee based on performance. When I make money, they make money. 

But they wouldn't get any commission if they told you to buy bitcoin and you did. You can't buy it through them.

Every time frame you've described bitcoin outperforms the stock market. 

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23 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Why won't you answer the question? What time frame are you looking at to define a bull market? You keep claiming bitcoin is not in one but won't define the most basic parameter.

As for you post. You addressed two time frames.

1st: 2012-2017 where you characterized bitcoin as "did just about nothing"

  • In 2012 the price of bitcoin was 5.27
  • In 2017 the price of bitcoin was 997.69

That's an increase of 18831.5%. Your characterization is ignorant at best.

2nd: You said to look at the 10 year chart. 

  • In 2011 the low bitcoin price was .92.
  • Today it is 38.5k.

That's an increase of 4184680% which again blows away the S&P 500. If the S&P 500 is in a 10 year bull market, how can you possibly say bitcoin isn't?

Fine, Bitcoin is in a one year bull market

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3 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

What you are describing is timing the market which is luck, and I pay a fee based on performance. When I make money, they make money. 

Timing?

If you had bought 10 bitcoin in 2012, you would be rich 

If you had bought 10 bitcoin in 2013, you would be rich 

If you had bought 10 bitcoin in 2014, you would be rich 

If you had bought 10 bitcoin in 2015, you would be rich 

If you had bought 10 bitcoin in 2016, you would be rich

If you had bought 10 bitcoin in 2017, you would be rich

If you had bought 10 bitcoin in 2018, you would be up

If you had bought 10 bitcoin in 2019, you would be up

If you had bought 10 bitcoin in 2020, you would be up

The only time in history that a person that invested in bitcoin, and held, that is down money are people that first bought at some point this year. So yeah there is no guarantee that Bitcoin will go up every day. Pretty sure the stock market  has bad months/quarters also. 

 

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