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Keelan Cole will be the biggest surprise on this Jet offense


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1 hour ago, David Harris said:

Keelan Cole is the security that makes Crowder especially expendable. 

there’s no good argument to keep crowder versus $10 mill savings when you have Moore starting and Cole who can play all 3 spots.  
I know people will say support the QB with weaponz but he will be supported even without Crowder. That $10 mill rolls over into next year. It’s sound business and Zach will still have plenty of good options even if/when someone gets hurt.

I respectfully disagree.

One injury, and we're 2020 all over again, no thanks.

We can afford the $10 million.  We've been "rolling" cap for years now and not spending it.

We'll be fine if we keep Crowder, with actual depth and insurance at WR for a change.

Also Crowder > Cole.

 

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If healthy Cole has a chance to be a major contributor in this offense.   His versatility is exactly what the “system” requires.  People think that drafting Moore makes Crowder expendable, but it’s ac

Frankly, I think Moore has the potential to be a #1 in the mold of Stephen Smith and Antonio Brown.

Davis Mims Moore Crowder Cole It's a better group than we've had in quite a while, even if it still lacks that elite #1 most teams strive for. I hope you're right, hell,

As usual we overrate our guys; Crowder is a nice player but Cole is a more versatile and talented player.  This guy routinely makes Odell Beckham type one handed grabs.   You put the ball in his vicinity and he will get it.   He also can return punts which makes him even more valuable.  I like Crowder but if is a choice between the two, I go with Cole and don't look back.   Remember Davis, Mims and Moore will get their share of looks; it is very likely that Crowder will be the odd man out.  Then again, all 4 may get to contribute.  Like I said, Cole can also return punts and even take a some to house.  Something this team has seen in a few years. 

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4 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

How is he getting on the field with Davis, Mims, Crowder and Moore ahead of him?

I just dont see much playin time for him unless someone gets hurt.

Its the Jets, I'd be surprised if we didn't have the 5 WR's rotating on IR

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1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

Ideally Mims comes out of camp and grabs the split end/X role and is a fixture there for the next 5 years or so.  I’m not sure that will be the case right away.  Also, so much will depend on what personnel groupings the Jets are in.  If they are in 2 TE a lot, then that obviously cuts down on some WR reps.  Two WR sets would generally be comprised of Davis, Cole or Mims.  

I know we’re looking at SF for what to expect from our offense, but the Jets’ WR group is suddenly way ahead of their TE/FB group. I expect to see a lot of 3-WR sets. I mean, I’d love for Herndon and/or Wesco to find their niche, but I don’t love that at the expense of Moore or Mims getting on the field. 
 
And I do think we’ll see more of Moore outside than you seem to expect. He’s a weapon, and if they’re clever (and I suspect they are) they’ll be looking to deploy him in a variety of ways. 

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3 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

There is 0 chance Cole is getting more playing time then Crowder and Moore.  And its ludicrous to suggest hes playing over Mims.

Hes the 5th receiver on this team.

Cole is going be benched by a slot receiver?  

Because?

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3 minutes ago, slats said:

I know we’re looking at SF for what to expect from our offense, but the Jets’ WR group is suddenly way ahead of their TE/FB group. I expect to see a lot of 3-WR sets. I mean, I’d love for Herndon and/or Wesco to find their niche, but I don’t love that at the expense of Moore or Mims getting on the field. 
 
And I do think we’ll see more of Moore outside than you seem to expect. He’s a weapon, and if they’re clever (and I suspect they are) they’ll be looking to deploy him in a variety of ways. 

I agree, I don’t think we’ll see a ton of 2 TE sets, that’s why I think Cole will see the field a lot.   I’d be surprised if Moore got a ton of work outside early on, I think they can utilize him best inside, plus he’s under 180 pounds and could get bullied around more outside.  Down the road I can see it, once he learns how to get a better release and maybe put on a few more pounds.   
 

 

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2 hours ago, Tranquilo said:

On a good team, I mean. If he has more receptions than the four guys we have here, that's an issue. Last year he had the 2nd most receptions on the Jags but Chark (2 less) and Shenault played less games than he did. He shouldn't be leading our team in receptions.

On a good team his catch totals should go up, not down. 

 

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2 hours ago, Tranquilo said:

Also, his rookie year Robinson was hurt, and Marqise Lee had more receptions. Cole also only had 42 receptions that year. That's not a volume, guy. Maybe you should learn more about Cole.

Youre going to judge an undrafted FA WR from Kentucky Wesleyan for not putting up #1 WR numbers 5 years later?

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I respectfully disagree.

One injury, and we're 2020 all over again, no thanks.

We can afford the $10 million.  We've been "rolling" cap for years now and not spending it.

We'll be fine if we keep Crowder, with actual depth and insurance at WR for a change.

Also Crowder > Cole.

 

I get it, totally do and I'll be nervous as well to cut Crowder because by all accounts he is everything you want in locker-room and on the field.

But truthfully we can withstand an injury to one of our WR's because there is more depth there now with Cole.  Even if Mims or Davis go down - Cole can step in seamlessly.  I also expect the other guys like Vyncent Smith to come back better now that they are healthy.

There's only a handful of times we will have 4 wide receivers on the field, if all healthy those four should be Cole, Moore, Mims, Davis because those are now our best 4.  Any other play you have Crowder in you are taking Moore off the field which is hurting the development of Moore plus hurting your offense because Moore (imo) offers much more right now with his insanely low drop rate and ability to YAC -  he's a 4.32 guy with incredible sticky hands and mature route running.  His comps have been Antonio Brown, Tyler Lockett and Steve Smith. 

Also our Shanahan offense spreads the ball around a lot; a lot of passes to RB's and TE's so Crowder is going to give you what, maybe 4-6 catches a game if he were playing full time.  Is that worth $10 million dollars this year.  No chance IMO.  Yes we currently have the cap space but by spending that money now on a redundant and less talented player iyou are taking that money away from next year's cap where it can roll over and get us a stud.  $10 mill is a huge salary. 

David Decastro gets $10 mill a year.  Joe Haden gets $10 mill a year.  We can get a starting player that is very good and fills a need next year for what we are paying Crowder who definitely won't be resigned after this season anyway.  

Keep Crowder through TC in case of injury to a Jets WR or another team's WR where you can trade him.  But other than a significant pre-season injury to our current wideouts Crowder just doesn't add up. 

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Also, just a quick question, when OP says a surprise, what are we talking about exactly. production wise?

He's a 4th year player who has produced 350-750 yards and 1-5 TD's.

So what would be surprising?  Are we talking 1,100 yards and 12 TD's? 

That WOULD be surprising.  I'm not seeing it, not with Davis, Mims and Moore, much less Davis, Mims, Moore and Crowder all on the roster.

He will, we hope, produce in the opportunities given to him.

 

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

One injury, and we're 2020 all over again, no thanks.

 

One injury wouldnt have made 2020 into 2020

We lost Perriman, Crowder and Mims to injuries early in the season.  

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2 hours ago, David Harris said:

I also expect the other guys like Vyncent Smith to come back better now that they are healthy.

Agree to disagree, no worries.  I don't want the various Berrios' or Smith's or Hogan's on the team, they're not good enough, even for depth.

I just don't see any need to be cheap and try and save $10 million when we're consistently under the Cap and never, ever, spend these "savings" we get by dumping actual locker room leaders and talent.

Could we survive without Crowder, sure, probably. 

Do we have to?  Nope.

 

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1 hour ago, JetBlue said:

As usual we overrate our guys; Crowder is a nice player but Cole is a more versatile and talented player.  This guy routinely makes Odell Beckham type one handed grabs.   You put the ball in his vicinity and he will get it.   He also can return punts which makes him even more valuable.  I like Crowder but if is a choice between the two, I go with Cole and don't look back.   Remember Davis, Mims and Moore will get their share of looks; it is very likely that Crowder will be the odd man out.  Then again, all 4 may get to contribute.  Like I said, Cole can also return punts and even take a some to house.  Something this team has seen in a few years. 

This is literally everything I heard about Perriman being more valuable than Robby all over again.

Every bit of it. If anything our fanbase ridiculously underrates our players - Leonard Williams and Robbie Anderson were both ridiculed here to a ridiculous degree. I hate Adams as much as most of our fans but even he is better than a lot of them let on. Our fans are garbage and among the most reactionary in the league when it comes to judging players. Crowder is a year younger than Cole and has 4,160 yards and 26 TD's to 2,242 yards and 12 TD's. Crowder has been more productive in even worse situations.

The one being overrated here is Cole, who no-one on this forum had heard off a few months ago. Crowder is the better play and any neutral fan would say so.

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13 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Youre going to judge an undrafted FA WR from Kentucky Wesleyan for not putting up #1 WR numbers 5 years later?

I don’t even know what this means. He’s been a 3/4 guy his whole career. We have guys that should be better. If everything goes well, Keelan Cole should not lead the team in receptions. 

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The volume WR will be the one who is put into the George Kittle role.

I am convinced the Jets will go hard after a veteran TE before the season. Some TE's that may be available in a trade due to expiring contracts are:

Evan Engram

Zach Ertz

Robert Tonyan

David Njoku

Hayden Hurst

Engram seems like the most likely target and most closely aligns with Kittle as far as pass catching talent is concerned. The Giants have very little cap room right now and only have a projected $7.9 million next year with a ton of free agents. 

The WR room has the most talent it's had in a very long time but you can not discount how important the TE is to this offensive scheme. 2 of the last 4 years under Shanahan the TE led the team in rec. The other two Kittle started 7 and 8 games. Both times he was on pace to lead the team. This team has a glaring hole at TE and I can't imagine they'll let that hole still be there at the start of the season after all they've done to transform the talent on the offensive side of the ball. 

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31 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

Not with better receivers around 

Yeah, not with experience and a better offensive coach

Kid can make any catch on the field.  Hes going to be fine.

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Also,  I'll say this, I wouldn't expect any of the WRs to put up huge numbers in this offense. None of them are a true #1's right now and I don't expect any 1 of them to get the lions share of the targets. 

SF used a 2 WR set with either a FB and TE or double TE's 43% of the offensive snaps last year. The traditional slot WR in this offense is not utilized often and is not a focus of the offense like it was under Gase. Crowders value to this team in this scheme is very limited. 

A guy like Moore will play outside similar to how they use Samuel in SF. I do think there will be times Mims, Davis and Moore will be on the field together but not as much as some of you assume. Especially if they bring in a true veteran starting TE.

If they don't bring in a TE to play that Kittle role on pass downs, where he is off the line in the slot, I think they'll utilize Mims or Davis in that role, not Crowder or Moore. I truly think Crowder gets traded and a veteran TE gets traded for before the season. 

 

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30 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

I don’t even know what this means. He’s been a 3/4 guy his whole career. We have guys that should be better. If everything goes well, Keelan Cole should not lead the team in receptions. 

Youre admitting you dont understand that he was a UDFA out of a small school?  And youre picking on his numbers?  

 

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11 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Youre admitting you dont understand that he was a UDFA out of a small school?  And youre picking on his numbers?  

 

? What are you trying to say? That he’s going to be a number 1 receiver? That he’s going to blow up on the Jets? Just give me a straight answer, I’m not getting what your point is. 

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2 hours ago, JetBlue said:

As usual we overrate our guys; Crowder is a nice player but Cole is a more versatile and talented player.  This guy routinely makes Odell Beckham type one handed grabs.   You put the ball in his vicinity and he will get it.   He also can return punts which makes him even more valuable.  I like Crowder but if is a choice between the two, I go with Cole and don't look back.   Remember Davis, Mims and Moore will get their share of looks; it is very likely that Crowder will be the odd man out.  Then again, all 4 may get to contribute.  Like I said, Cole can also return punts and even take a some to house.  Something this team has seen in a few years. 

What??????  Theres a reason crowder got a great deal as a free agent and Cole didnt.  Hes a much better player.

I never knew this underground Cole brigade existed.

I guess every exec in the nfl missed this Cole greatness.

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32 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

? What are you trying to say? That he’s going to be a number 1 receiver? That he’s going to blow up on the Jets? Just give me a straight answer, I’m not getting what your point is. 

Im trying to say its pretty dumb to comment that his team leading numbers after signing as an UDFA shouldn't be a negative as you tried to make it.  Or not understanding that not only has it always been said WRs need 3 years to develop but with his case, coming from little Kentucky Wesleyan, a school that hasnt developed another player in the NFL its even harder to develop in one year.

If you didnt get that message, it explains why you arent getting what the point is/

 

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22 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Im trying to say its pretty dumb to comment that his team leading numbers after signing as an UDFA shouldn't be a negative as you tried to make it.  Or not understanding that not only has it always been said WRs need 3 years to develop but with his case, coming from little Kentucky Wesleyan, a school that hasnt developed another player in the NFL its even harder to develop in one year.

If you didnt get that message, it explains why you arent getting what the point is/

 

But Cole is in his 5th year now... and he hasn’t improved much on those numbers since 

So after 4 years, you said they need 3 to develop, where are his big numbers?

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4 hours ago, Paradis said:

I don't think anyone is sleeping on him considering most think he's our WR1... From a talent standpoint, I wouldn't auto-slot him over Mims.  Personally, i think Mims will contest for WR1/spit end... (he'll be in Aiyuk role), with Davis/Cole as your rotating flankers/WR2.

See thats the thing. I feel like a lot of Jet fans agree that he is by default the WR1 but in the the same breath suggest that Mims might overtake him- a guy who played 9 games in the NFL so far and when he did, showed really nice promise but not much production (yes, I get it- Gase, Darnold, etc., but nonetheless). I'm a bit fan of Mims and I think he has great upside but until he actually has a season that shows me something, I'm not putting him anywhere near a guy like Davis.

So yeah, IMO when you suggest that Mims will compete for the #1 receiver spot and produce close to the same level as Davis. When you put him on the level of Cole as a rotating flanker/WR2, you're kind of sleeping on him. He should be seeing majority of the targets until the defense starts to navigate towards taking him away and leaving other guys open.   

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3 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

But Cole is in his 5th year now... and he hasn’t improved much on those numbers since 

So after 4 years, you said they need 3 to develop, where are his big numbers?

Hes played 4 years

With backup QBs most of last year and has never had an offensive minded HC.  

His big numbers were right there for you to see his first season.  But you blew them off wanting to know why they weren't the same when his QB crashed and burned

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5 hours ago, PepPep said:

Davis will lead the team in receptions unless he gets hurt. And that is what you want. Davis is a beast and easily the best receiver on this team. People are sleeping on him. 

Having said that. Yeah, Cole should be a contributor. I think he WILL be a pleasant surprise. I'd rather Mims was a pleasant surprise and had a breakout season. But I think Cole will be solid. He's versatile. 

The biggest surprise will be Herndon. A lot of fans are ready to cut him. If LaFleur makes an effort to incorporate him in this offense and Herndon stays healthy he should be a key factor and we will see some of his playmaking ability. He just needs to figure out a way to stay healthy all year.   

He needs to figure out how to catch the ball more than half the time it gets to him. 

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6 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Hes played 4 years

With backup QBs most of last year and has never had an offensive minded HC.  

His big numbers were right there for you to see his first season.  But you blew them off wanting to know why they weren't the same when his QB crashed and burned

His first season was ok, but not big. 700 yards is big numbers? And DJ Chark has put up better numbers with the same QB these past few years. I think Cole should have had better numbers than he’s produced if he’s more than a WR3/4

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1 hour ago, choon328 said:

Also,  I'll say this, I wouldn't expect any of the WRs to put up huge numbers in this offense. None of them are a true #1's right now and I don't expect any 1 of them to get the lions share of the targets. 

SF used a 2 WR set with either a FB and TE or double TE's 43% of the offensive snaps last year. The traditional slot WR in this offense is not utilized often and is not a focus of the offense like it was under Gase. Crowders value to this team in this scheme is very limited. 

A guy like Moore will play outside similar to how they use Samuel in SF. I do think there will be times Mims, Davis and Moore will be on the field together but not as much as some of you assume. Especially if they bring in a true veteran starting TE.

If they don't bring in a TE to play that Kittle role on pass downs, where he is off the line in the slot, I think they'll utilize Mims or Davis in that role, not Crowder or Moore. I truly think Crowder gets traded and a veteran TE gets traded for before the season. 

 

It's not about any individual WR, it's about the sum total of the passing game.

Our 5x WR's might all have 700 yards and 5 TD's (meh'ish #2 type numbers individually).  

But with 5x of them, that's 3,500 yards and 25 TD's just to start, before we factor in RB's and TE's.

It's Wilsons numbers that matter, not the individual WR's IMO. 

Spread it around like Brady does, works fine for me. 

As long as we're successful at it.

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5 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

His first season was ok, but not big. 700 yards is big numbers? And DJ Chark has put up better numbers with the same QB these past few years. I think he should have better numbers. 

700 yards from Kentucky Wesleyan as an UDFA?  Get 700 yards was huge and not done by many.

More than a few have told you youre wrong, that hes a talented player.  But you just want to argue against that claim.  I'm guessing you have never watched him play for any significant amount of time

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2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

700 yards from Kentucky Wesleyan as an UDFA?  Get 700 yards was huge and not done by many.

I think you need to reassess that claim

Jfc ok, but he hasn’t followed it up. Also lol @ 700 yards is huge. Minshew is better than Bortles, too. 700 yards your first year and mediocre numbers for the next 3 years isn’t more than a WR 3/4. Reassess your claim, jfc. How the hell are you arguing this? What are his numbers for 3 years straight? 

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3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

700 yards from Kentucky Wesleyan as an UDFA?  Get 700 yards was huge and not done by many.

More than a few have told you youre wrong, that hes a talented player.  But you just want to argue against that claim.  I'm guessing you have never watched him play for any significant amount of time

I never said he wasn’t talented but he hasn’t demonstrated in reality that he’s more than a WR3/4.

show me evidence, stats that he’s more than a WR 3/4. I’ll wait. 

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4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I'm guessing you have never watched him play for any significant amount of time

How much time have you spent watching him play?

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1 minute ago, Tranquilo said:

Jfc ok, but he hasn’t followed it up. Also lol @ 700 yards is huge. Minshew is better than Bortles, too. 700 yards your first year and mediocre numbers for the next 3 years isn’t more than a WR 3/4. Reassess your claim, jfc. How the hell are you arguing this? What are his numbers for 3 years straight? 

Their offense fell off a cliff.

They went from the NFLs 6th ranked offense to the 27th, 20th to the 28th ranked offense.  

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