Jump to content

Is a full build in New York possible?


Recommended Posts

I have been a proponent of this front office having the support of ownership to build at their own pace. JD and Saleh could build something special if they are given the time to do so. That can be difficult at times in New York. The Rangers were in the middle of a true full build, but ownership pulled the plug on it today mid-stream, wanting to accelerate things.

If this build takes a little longer, will the Johnsons give JD the time to see this through? Will the fans, or the media, give the team the time to do it?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, SackExchangeNYJ said:

I have been a proponent of this front office having the support of ownership to build at their own pace. JD and Saleh could build something special if they are given the time to do so. That can be difficult at times in New York. The Rangers were in the middle of a true full build, but ownership pulled the plug on it today mid-stream, wanting to accelerate things.

If this build takes a little longer, will the Johnsons give JD the time to see this through? Will the fans, or the media, give the team the time to do it?

 

Horrible.  Disgusting decision making IMO.

  • Upvote 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

 

Horrible.  Disgusting decision making IMO.

I agree, as a Rangers fan.

As a Jets fan, I just want to make sure this sort of thing doesn't happen with the good things starting to go on in Florham Park.

  • Upvote 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

The Johnsons have given Douglas full teign and are delighted with his 2021 draft.  They are going with whatever Douglas says.  And Douglas is doing this patiently.

This team will be a legit Super Bowl contender in 2023 and most of that will be with players drafted or signed to reasonable contracts.

  • Upvote 3
  • Confused 1
  • Post of the Week 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Joe W. Namath said:

The Johnsons have given Douglas full teign and are delighted with his 2021 draft.  They are going with whatever Douglas says.  And Douglas is doing this patiently.

This team will be a legit Super Bowl contender in 2023 and most of that will be with players drafted or signed to reasonable contracts.

I agree. I just hope it's not short-circuited, the way it was at MSG.

  • Upvote 1
  • Post of the Week 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, SackExchangeNYJ said:

I agree. I just hope it's not short-circuited, the way it was at MSG.

Gorton was just a puppet.  I think this is more about not wanting to lose Drury then anything else TBH.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, SackExchangeNYJ said:

I have been a proponent of this front office having the support of ownership to build at their own pace. JD and Saleh could build something special if they are given the time to do so. That can be difficult at times in New York. The Rangers were in the middle of a true full build, but ownership pulled the plug on it today mid-stream, wanting to accelerate things.

If this build takes a little longer, will the Johnsons give JD the time to see this through? Will the fans, or the media, give the team the time to do it?

a "rebuild" in the NFL takes 3 years. If it's more than 3 years then it's not a rebuild, it's just failure. After 3 years, your rookie contracts are coming due so if your 'rebuild' isn't complete then it's not gonna get 'more complete' as the years go on.

Mac got 5 years, how many more years did you want to give him? 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The Johnsons' problem has always been waiting too long to fire people. The only time you could argue they pulled the plug too soon was with Mangini, but that's debateable.

  • Upvote 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

The rebuild is already here and we are ahead of schedule right now. After next draft / free agency binge, the rebuild should be complete and we should be considered a contender

  • Upvote 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

You can rebuild on the fly (changing your culture and landing key pieces) in one year and completely overhaul your roster in two years.

IMO, the Jets did a great job this off-season -- I think Saleh and LaFleur will overhaul the culture and scheme and they've added several key pieces.

They nail the offseason again next year we can be contenders in 2022.

For those doubting this -- in early 2019 everyone thought the Dolphins would be the worst team in the NFL. But after acquiring tons of picks they started hitting on them and now we're all afraid they're going to land Watson.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

It is now. When is the last time we had a head coach and GM on the same page? Probably Tanny and Mangini

Mangini wasn't the greatest coach but a great talent evaluator. Tanny was there to sign off and do the numbers. 

Next we kept Tanny and the great roster we built and teamed it with Rex. You can't even blame Rex for destroying that SB ready roster cause he was a kid in a candy store, of course he's going to get a sugar high and want everything. No buisness in personnel decisions.

Now let's fire Tanny and hire Korn Ferry at 6 figures for our GM search. Also as a condition Rex must remain head coach. Im shocked the best we could get is John Idzik.

Whatever, it keeps going. We finally seem to have a competent GM and a Coach that at least looks like the real deal on the same page. Only Woody being back in town could F this up somehow. Just let them work. After last year anything they do this season will look good. Pressure isn't come from the fans for an instant rebuild. Just progress

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, BroadwayRay said:

The Johnsons' problem has always been waiting too long to fire people. The only time you could argue they pulled the plug too soon was with Mangini, but that's debateable.

They waited waaaaaaaaaaaaaay to long on Gase.  The minute we got that plane up that clown should have been canned.

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I'd argue that rebuilds don't even take 3 years.  Most "rebuilds" are a 1-2 year change, max.

I guess it really depends on how the rebuild goes down. Having your GM start after your ex-GMs draft, and also hiring a new coach muddies up the timeline. I feel pretty good about the direction we are heading though and definitely believe we will break this never ending rebuild cycle that we have been in for far too long. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, BigRy56 said:

The rebuild is already here and we are ahead of schedule right now. After next draft / free agency binge, the rebuild should be complete and we should be considered a contender

That is how I see it too. The core is being built the right way and with the picks next year, we should be able to seal the deal as long as the picks develop. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know how a rebuild works in ice hockey but it's simple for the jets now, if wilson shows success and puts bums on seats and sells jerseys the Johnson's will back it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we did so well this offseason in both FA and the draft, an elite QB prospect who can play from Day 1 (in my opinion) coupled with a new coaching staff, new training and therapy organization that we are contenders right now. 

Say Wilson plays as an average QB this year. We now have a ton of weapons on offense and will score, and OL is much better. Or defensive line is elite and we will be playing Cover 3 which will cover some of our CB weakness and we added a ton of speed and playmaking capability at safety and LB.

It's a playoff contending team right now.

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, BroadwayRay said:

The Johnsons' problem has always been waiting too long to fire people. The only time you could argue they pulled the plug too soon was with Mangini, but that's debateable.

More so, hiring the wrong people in the first place 

Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

a "rebuild" in the NFL takes 3 years. If it's more than 3 years then it's not a rebuild, it's just failure. After 3 years, your rookie contracts are coming due so if your 'rebuild' isn't complete then it's not gonna get 'more complete' as the years go on.

Mac got 5 years, how many more years did you want to give him? 

no defense of mac here.  he didn't get a qb and the one's he did draft along with most of the players he brought in were junk.  i think the big question is how long does douglas get?  hard to say much about last season except that it was almost a -1 year.  now that he has his own coach and drafted his qb this could be year 1.  he's got 3 seasons from now.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, BigRy56 said:

The rebuild is already here and we are ahead of schedule right now. After next draft / free agency binge, the rebuild should be complete and we should be considered a contender

Again, I'd argue the "Rebuild" portion of our show is already over now.

We have:  New Coach, new staff, new QB, new O-lineman in the mid 1st to go with our other 1st round O-lineman, new O skill players at RB and WR, new high-cost edge, new DB's and LB's, Mosely back (or traded).  Plus whatever else we get in post-draft Free Agency.

That's the "rebuild".  The Rebuild is now over. 

We still have some holes, and some thin positions, sure, as every team does, but we no longer require a "rebuild".

2022 will not be "more rebuild". 

2022 will be about individual pieces, not about wholesale rebuilding the roster.  

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, SackExchangeNYJ said:

I agree, as a Rangers fan.

As a Jets fan, I just want to make sure this sort of thing doesn't happen with the good things starting to go on in Florham Park.

Dolan did what he did to Donnie Walsh, hes a meddler who thinks he knows a lot more than he does.

Jets wont be in the same situation, ownership is behind JD and will be happy with the difference in the team from a year ago.  

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Again, I'd argue the "Rebuild" portion of our show is already over now.

We have:  New Coach, new staff, new QB, new O-lineman in the mid 1st to go with our other 1st round O-lineman, new O skill players at RB and WR, new high-cost edge, new DB's and LB's, Mosely back (or traded).  Plus whatever else we get in post-draft Free Agency.

That's the "rebuild".  The Rebuild is now over. 

We still have some holes, and some thin positions, sure, as every team does, but we no longer require a "rebuild".

2022 will not be "more rebuild". 

2022 will be about individual pieces, not about wholesale rebuilding the roster.  

Putting changes in place doesnt mean the rebuild is over.  No one thinks positions like OL, CB, TE or LB are finalized.  Those positions, the ones with holes are not like teams who's rebuild is complete

We're closer to the end than the very beginning but the rebuild is not over.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Drums said:

I guess it really depends on how the rebuild goes down. Having your GM start after your ex-GMs draft, and also hiring a new coach muddies up the timeline. I feel pretty good about the direction we are heading though and definitely believe we will break this never ending rebuild cycle that we have been in for far too long. 

17 minutes ago, rangerous said:

no defense of mac here.  he didn't get a qb and the one's he did draft along with most of the players he brought in were junk.  i think the big question is how long does douglas get?  hard to say much about last season except that it was almost a -1 year.  now that he has his own coach and drafted his qb this could be year 1.  he's got 3 seasons from now.

 

If you want to give him a mulligan year, for that first half year, ok. That makes sense. However, even without that, it's year 2. 

I'd argue the general outline is:

Year 1. Teardown (jettison bad contracts, evaluate players, new GM/Coach/Etc)

Year 2. Build up. (Systems are in place. Vision is implemented. Fighting for the playoffs and maybe a surprise run)

Year 3. You're in the playoffs and fighting for the division title. All gas, no excuses.

If things are going well in Year 3 for Douglas then giving him Year 4 may not be crazy, but he also doesn't get a reprieve because he didn't fire Gase last year. That was a choice and the wrong one. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Putting changes in place doesnt mean the rebuild is over.  No one thinks positions like OL, CB, TE or LB are finalized.  Those positions, the ones with holes are not like teams who's rebuild is complete

We're closer to the end than the very beginning but the rebuild is not over.

Agree to disagree. 

No team or position group is ever "finalized" and every team every year can and does make incremental improvements.

A Rebuild is a wholesale change of roster, staff and more, usually dumping high-priced talent and older players and replacing them with cheaper, younger talent.

That is pretty much done.  We don't have much old, high-priced talent.  And there will be no wholesale overhauls or changes of that type next year.

Needing another CB, a 2nd Edge and one more Tackle is not a "Rebuild".  

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Agree to disagree. 

No team or position group is ever "finalized" and every team every year can and does make incremental improvements.

A Rebuild is a wholesale change of roster, staff and more, usually dumping high-priced talent and older players and replacing them with cheaper, younger talent.

That is pretty much done.  We don't have much old, high-priced talent.  And there will be no wholesale overhauls or changes of that type next year.

Needing another CB, a 2nd Edge and one more Tackle is not a "Rebuild".  

 

 

Thats fine, disagree.

No team its rebuild is ever over?  I can name more than a few teams who are nowhere close to rebuilding right now. 

A rebuild is not a wholesale change of roster, its upgrading positions either by wholesale change or not.  

LBs, TEs, CBs and probably most of the LB group will probably replaced 

Which CB right now are you so sure keeps his job?  1, 2 or the slot corner spot thats not filled?  We just finished year one after JD dumped out

Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, BroadwayRay said:

The Johnsons' problem has always been waiting too long to fire people. The only time you could argue they pulled the plug too soon was with Mangini, but that's debateable.

True, but I think they force the horrible big splurge free agent signings 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

A rebuild is not a wholesale change of roster, its upgrading positions either by wholesale change or not.

Well, when we don't even agree on the definition of a term, we're unlikely to agree on the rest.

Under your definition, every team is rebuilding every season as long as they make even a single "upgrade to a position". 

Which would kinda make the world "rebuild" pretty meaningless.

No harm, no foul, happy to disagree on this one, but no point in further arguing over something when we can't even agree what that something is in the first place.

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Well, when we don't even agree on the definition of a term, we're unlikely to agree on the rest.

Under your definition, every team is rebuilding every season as long as they make even a single "upgrade to a position". 

Which would kinda make the world "rebuild" pretty meaningless.

No harm, no foul, happy to disagree on this one, but no point in further arguing over something when we can't even agree what that something is in the first place.

 

No I just dont think the rebuild is complete with CB, LB, TE and OL still in need of massive upgrades means we're still rebuilding

Means we're not finished 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I'd argue that rebuilds don't even take 3 years.  Most "rebuilds" are a 1-2 year change, max.

Add a zero for Jets

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

There’s YouTube’s with the Title: Build Joe Douglas a statue. 

If your not excited about what this teams doing your not paying attention. 

I'm excited that the process seems mature with pieces building up into a whole.

This is not Macc drafting like he's picking items off the dessert topping bar. Do Gummi Bears go with butterscotch drops? Who cares! Throw 'em on there!

But the process still needs to lead to results. We'll find out of JD's player evals are as advanced as his organizational accumen.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...