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How the Jets should throw Zach Wilson into the fire | Boomer and Gio


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3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

What was the Chiefs record for QB development before Mahomes?  

No one is saying that Saleh and LaFleur will do the right things to develop Wilson properly, just saying they arent Bowles/Gase and have shouldnt be lumped into Bowles/Gase inability to develop Darnold correctly

 

Andy Reid has a pretty stout record of managing his QBs, I would bet.
 

I’m saying that the structural bias in the Jets building is toward starting the QB on Day One. Any GM who drafts a QB high wants that draft pick to play right away to validate the pick. Any coach is going to want to believe that he can get any player drafted that high ready to play on Day One. It’d take a major check of egos to slow-walk throwing Wilson to the wolves, simply because it’d defy all pressures external and internal to get him on the field. No one inside the building is going to tell them that it’s not a good idea. Everyone outside of the building is telling everyone inside the building that they need to see him start.

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Allow me to save you the 9:41. Their rationale is “hey why not.”

A quick perusal of the Jets-aligned media apparatus shows that everyone is writing the same story today—Zach Wilson should start Day One. Either 1. The Jets beat is 100% invested in wall to wall Zach

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4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

And if thats the case theres still time to bring in that Foles type.  I'm pretty sure theres a Foles type in our future.  Either to mentor the kid or to start the season if he needs to watch for the first few, five games.  

The only one who will be screaming “What’s wrong with Zach Wilson!?!?!?” will be fans on twitter and message boards, no one was screaming with Eli on the bench, with Mahomes on the bench, down here with Tua sitting on the bench 

Keeping Eli and Mahomes on the bench was 1000% the right move for those franchises, and both of those decisions were made by coaches with lots of credibility and political capital inside their organizations. If we do sign the Foles-type (as depressing as this is to think about) it’d be a sign that the Jets are being clear-headed about this decision moving forward. 

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1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Andy Reid has a pretty stout record of managing his QBs, I would bet.
 

I’m saying that the structural bias in the Jets building is toward starting the QB on Day One. Any GM who drafts a QB high wants that draft pick to play right away to validate the pick. Any coach is going to want to believe that he can get any player drafted that high ready to play on Day One. It’d take a major check of egos to slow-walk throwing Wilson to the wolves, simply because it’d defy all pressures external and internal to get him on the field. No one inside the building is going to tell them that it’s not a good idea. Everyone outside of the building is telling everyone inside the building that they need to see him start.

Yeah, McNabb, a top pick and a string of attempts that didnt really work other than one year of Foles. The same Reid who didnt feel forced to start the top 10 QB that he traded up to draft.  Or Eli who the Giants traded for.  Or Tua who the Dolphins drafted at 5.  

Hell how much of a blow to the ego was having to sit Elway after he was handed the starting spot as a rookie top pick?

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23 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

 

 

Or, Saleh and JD have *no* history of developing a QB and are now working for a franchise that has a storied history of defenestrating young QBs, so maybe declaring that “Saleh and Douglas are QB development experts who deserve the benefit of the doubt and who aren’t vulnerable to outside pressures” is a wee bit hasty?

You seem to be spending an awful lot of words defending your staked out position through the FA/draft process. Now you're inventing a narrative and leaning on the old philosophical "if it could be true, it must be true" fallacy. You have your doubts, so be it. Let's wait and see what actually happens. And by the way, Rob Calebrese is the QB coach, not Saleh or Douglas. A minor indication of competence and attention to QB development. 

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51 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It wouldn’t just be the $3mm; it’s the idea of going into this season with a Nick Foles-type as the starter, which is a depressing story for everyone involved. It’d be that the initial return on the $3mm is a substandard offense that generates zero buzz and leads to a bunch of nonsensical “What’s wrong with Zach Wilson!?!?!?” articles and sports radio segments. The long-term payoff on that $3mm could be a better Zach Wilson, long term. 

Trey Lance is in a great position sitting behind Garoppolo in an established offense. Or Mac Jones behind Cam. I understand the desire to copy those plans, but the Jets just aren't in that position. First and foremost, they're installing a new offense here. If they brought in your Nick Foles-type, he would have to get massive training camp reps to both learn the offense and prepare to start, obviously cutting into the work they'd be able to do with Zach Wilson. I'm really not sure how that helps the kid long term. In fact, I'm pretty sure it doesn't. 

There's no doubt that he's gonna face some bumps and bruises this year, and he's going to have to have the mental toughness to get past that. Presumably, that's part of the reason they drafted him. It's a tall task, but I don't see how wrapping him up in bubble wrap would be better for him. 

This is a big reason, too, why I say the Jets can be building a real foundation this year and still finish last in the AFCe. Not just the rookie QB, but all the rookies on board from the head coach on down. Everybody learning on the job at the same time. 

I'd like to see them bring more the NIck Mullens-type, who knows the offense they're installing, can be a positive force in the QB room, and can start if you need him to (but probably not on opening day). 

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1 minute ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Now you're inventing a narrative and leaning on the old philosophical "if it could be true, it must be true" fallacy.

What am I saying “must be true”?

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1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Keeping Eli and Mahomes on the bench was 1000% the right move for those franchises, and both of those decisions were made by coaches with lots of credibility and political capital inside their organizations. If we do sign the Foles-type (as depressing as this is to think about) it’d be a sign that the Jets are being clear-headed about this decision moving forward. 

They will have plenty of time to evaluate Wilsons ability to start day one or not

 

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10 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

So every QB starting in the NFL has or needs to have a starter waiting in the wings "in case he gets broken in half week 1"????
 

Just wondering if other fanbases are aware of this 

Actually yeah..  they do.

In the case where the presumed starter has the physical prowess of Margot Robbie even moreso.

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1 minute ago, slats said:

Trey Lance is in a great position sitting behind Garoppolo in an established offense. Or Mac Jones behind Cam. I understand the desire to copy those plans, but the Jets just aren't in that position. First and foremost, they're installing a new offense here. If they brought in your Nick Foles-type, he would have to get massive training camp reps to both learn the offense and prepare to start, obviously cutting into the work they'd be able to do with Zach Wilson. I'm really not sure how that helps the kid long term. In fact, I'm pretty sure it doesn't. 

There's no doubt that he's gonna face some bumps and bruises this year, and he's going to have to have the mental toughness to get past that. Presumably, that's part of the reason they drafted him. It's a tall task, but I don't see how wrapping him up in bubble wrap would be better for him. 

This is a big reason, too, why I say the Jets can be building a real foundation this year and still finish last in the AFCe. Not just the rookie QB, but all the rookies on board from the head coach on down. Everybody learning on the job at the same time. 

I'd like to see them bring more the NIck Mullens-type, who knows the offense they're installing, can be a positive force in the QB room, and can start if you need him to (but probably not on opening day). 

If you bring in the veteran with a chance to start, you’d be buying Wilson *more* practice snaps because he’s not starting until another month or so into the season, as opposed to compressing the time frame into the relatively short window between now and the start of the season. Why have the number of practices he gets before facing the Bills pass rush be defined by the the NFLPA instead of guaranteeing yourself that you can just start him when you think he’s ready? And I keep reading and hearing that any QB on the planet can thrive in this offense, but we can’t sign a vet because they won’t be able to pick it up, but Wilson will? Makes no sense.

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12 minutes ago, Pac said:

Actually yeah..  they do.

In the case where the presumed starter has the physical prowess of Margot Robbie even moreso.

Actually they dont.  I doubt the Steelers believe Rudolph is a starter in the waiting.  Or most teams backups are viewed as a hope and pray for the best emergency starter 

How has that physical prowess of someone named Big Ben work out over the years?  Or your love Sam?

Your constant claims that Wilson is small or that smaller QBs are more of an injury risk is pointless

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7 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

They will have plenty of time to evaluate Wilsons ability to start day one or not

 

But they need to sign the veteran in the event they get to July and they determine that he might not be ready.

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30 minutes ago, Pac said:

If JD doesn't sign a starter, Zip gets broken in half on week 1, and we're rolling with Cpt f'n Morgan and Mike White we can stop with this JD genius stuff.  

Trade for a starter until kid dynamos balls drop otherwise this could be the disaster to end all disasters.

This is such a no brainer, I can’t believe people are arguing against it . Starting Wilson day 1 is a disaster. But of course that’s why we will probably do it . 

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13 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

But they need to sign the veteran in the event they get to July and they determine that he might not be ready.

There will be options, who's out there now?  Foles?  Who's going to be released?

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33 minutes ago, Pac said:

Some could say it was made in Nov.

I get what you are saying but UK ambassador is such a plum job that it's only 4 year deal even under 2 term guys. Woody was always coming back to meddle. 

ZW is one part Tebow one part Favre and one part Pixar character 

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3 minutes ago, Jolot said:

This is such a no brainer, I can’t believe people are arguing against it . Starting Wilson day 1 is a disaster. But of course that’s why we will probably do it . 

Based on what?  

Burrow was a disaster before his knee?  

Herbert?

 

 

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Just now, bitonti said:

I get what you are saying but UK ambassador is such a plum job that it's only 4 year deal even under 2 term guys. Woody was always coming back to meddle. 

ZW is one part Tebow one part Favre and one part Pixar character 

The old Woody is a moron who meddled theory based on tea leaves.

Based on the belief he was behind the braindead idea to sign a HOF QB coming off a 4K+ yard season  with 28 tds.  Meddlesome 

 

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1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

The old Woody is a moron who meddled theory based on tea leaves

 

He has not changed.

ZW was an order from ownership not a scouting job by JD 

They started from the conclusion that they had to draft ZW and worked backward

For all this talk about leak proof it was a pick people were penciling around January. Everyone knew it would happen. Because woody wanted it to happen. 

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13 minutes ago, Jolot said:

This is such a no brainer, I can’t believe people are arguing against it . Starting Wilson day 1 is a disaster. But of course that’s why we will probably do it . 

Welcome to the terrordome 

 

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7 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:@T0mShane  had a disturbing fixation on Jamal Adams it has now switched to Zach Wilson. 

Tom Shane was right about Jamal Adams, you geritol-swilling zombie.

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11 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

If you bring in the veteran with a chance to start, you’d be buying Wilson *more* practice snaps because he’s not starting until another month or so into the season, as opposed to compressing the time frame into the relatively short window between now and the start of the season. Why have the number of practices he gets before facing the Bills pass rush be defined by the the NFLPA instead of guaranteeing yourself that you can just start him when you think he’s ready? And I keep reading and hearing that any QB on the planet can thrive in this offense, but we can’t sign a vet because they won’t be able to pick it up, but Wilson will? Makes no sense.

Seems to me that it's the fans who don't particularly like Zach Wilson who feel he should sit. I'm Zach neutral, and just simply don't see the advantage of giving another QB starter reps while allegedly preparing Wilson to take over at some point. Just let him learn on the job like everyone else. 

Would've been nice if he was joining the team in Saleh's second season, a year after putting his program in place, and maybe sitting him for a bit behind the starter he was taking over for, but that's just not the situation the Jets are in, and bringing in a veteran QB to start a few games doesn't make change that. He's not joining Andy Reid's Chiefs here. This is more like Kyler Murray to the Cards, and that's working out okay. 

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Joe D. brought Hoyer in for a visit at a time when he knew full well that he was drafting Zach.  JD will be signing a veteran at some point, but he’s clearly waiting for something else to unfold (the Bears releasing Foles?  Mullens getting healthy enough to pass a physical?).

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10 minutes ago, slats said:

Seems to me that it's the fans who don't particularly like Zach Wilson who feel he should sit. I'm Zach neutral, and just simply don't see the advantage of giving another QB starter reps while allegedly preparing Wilson to take over at some point. Just let him learn on the job like everyone else. 

Would've been nice if he was joining the team in Saleh's second season, a year after putting his program in place, and maybe sitting him for a bit behind the starter he was taking over for, but that's just not the situation the Jets are in, and bringing in a veteran QB to start a few games doesn't make change that. He's not joining Andy Reid's Chiefs here. This is more like Kyler Murray to the Cards, and that's working out okay. 

I think the people who had doubts about Zach Wilson had those doubts because of the slight frame, the shoulder injuries, the one year of production during a COVID year, and the reported lack of emotional maturity and leadership qualities he displayed during his college career, which he admitted to, and which some time amongst his teammates participating in an NFL weight training program while the pressure to produce is entirely off of him would help allay. And the Jets being in a bad situation isn’t justification for throwing their hands up and saying, “well, screw it.” Let the team, and Saleh, and the OC (who’s never called plays before) get their feet wet and THEN bring Wilson in after ironing out some issues. But subjecting Wilson to their growing pains while he goes through his own makes little sense. Hell, Saleh forgot he was the head coach of the team yesterday! 

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1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

I think the people who had doubts about Zach Wilson had those doubts because of the slight frame, the shoulder injuries, the one year of production during a COVID year, and the reported lack of emotional maturity and leadership qualities he displayed during his college career, which he admitted to, and which some time amongst his teammates participating in an NFL weight training program while the pressure to produce is entirely off of him would help allay. And the Jets being in a bad situation isn’t justification for throwing their hands up and saying, “well, screw it.” Let the team, and Saleh, and the OC (who’s never called plays before) get their feet wet and THEN bring Wilson in after ironing out some issues. But subjecting Wilson to their growing pains while he goes through his own makes little sense. Hell, Saleh forgot he was the head coach of the team yesterday! 

I don't agree. They don't either. 

I think Saleh mentioning that he forgot he was the head coach is part of his message to the team, part of his, "all 53 have to lifting up the team." They're all in the same boat, they're all learning on the fly, and they all need to have each other's backs on the way to the next level. Given the circumstances, I think it's a good plan. Zach Wilson is already behaving like the starter without being willing to declare himself in that role, going so far as to be talking about getting players out to do some throwing in between camps. That's maybe not something he'd be doing if the stated plan was to sit him awhile. I don't expect Trey Lance to have a private throwing camp, for instance. 

It's baptism by fire, but I don't see how artificially coddling him would be any better. This way, they're all going to grow together as a team. Putting every other rookie out on the field with Zach glued to the bench doesn't exactly send the right message to anyone. 

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6 minutes ago, slats said:

I don't agree. They don't either. 

I think Saleh mentioning that he forgot he was the head coach is part of his message to the team, part of his, "all 53 have to lifting up the team." They're all in the same boat, they're all learning on the fly, and they all need to have each other's backs on the way to the next level. Given the circumstances, I think it's a good plan. Zach Wilson is already behaving like the starter without being willing to declare himself in that role, going so far as to be talking about getting players out to do some throwing in between camps. That's maybe not something he'd be doing if the stated plan was to sit him awhile. I don't expect Trey Lance to have a private throwing camp, for instance. 

It's baptism by fire, but I don't see how artificially coddling him would be any better. This way, they're all going to grow together as a team. Putting every other rookie out on the field with Zach glued to the bench doesn't exactly send the right message to anyone. 

Trey Lance won’t host a passing camp because he hasn’t been anointed the starter of his NFL team as of the time he was drafted. Which team do you think has a better plan to develop their QBs: the Niners or the team allegedly run by dudes who are supposed to be replicating the Niners Way? Wilson wasn’t even the declared starter for BYU at this point last year, but now Wilson is supposed to be the avowed starter here before he participates in his first NFL practice? Why does BYU have a more rigorous set of standards for naming the starting QB than we do? Seems a little silly. 

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1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Trey Lance won’t host a passing camp because he hasn’t been anointed the starter of his NFL team as of the time he was drafted. Which team do you think has a better plan to develop their QBs: the Niners or the team allegedly run by dudes who are supposed to be replicating the Niners Way? Wilson wasn’t even the declared starter for BYU at this point last year, but now Wilson is supposed to be the avowed starter here before he participates in his first NFL practice? Why does BYU have a more rigorous set of standards for naming the starting QB than we do? Seems a little silly. 

Contracts dictate playing time 

ZW is going to get a 20 million dollar signing bonus. There's no way the Jets leave him on the bench to learn.

And based on his draft capital, nor should he

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46 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Tom Shane was right about Jamal Adams, you geritol-swilling zombie.

Yes @T0mShane you and many others.........

Stop acting like you discovered gold or invented the light bulb. 

Give the kid Zach Wilson a chance. 

No Geritol here whats your poison surely something that isn't good for the brain. 

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54 minutes ago, bitonti said:

He has not changed.

ZW was an order from ownership not a scouting job by JD 

They started from the conclusion that they had to draft ZW and worked backward

For all this talk about leak proof it was a pick people were penciling around January. Everyone knew it would happen. Because woody wanted it to happen. 

Give me an example where Woody hasnt changed and has had anything to do with drafting a player.  Other than some dream you had where Woody talked the GM who he has given free reign over the team to draft a QB at # 2 who, get this, was the hands down overwhelming pick at # 2 behind Lawrence.  You also think that the decision to draft Lawrence was because of Shahid Khan?  That he wanted him over another QB? 

People were penciling Wilson at two in January so in thinking thats proof Woody had meddled with the pick.  You mean just after most outlets had moved Wilson above all the others and made him the #2 choice?  Or better yet, wait for it, after we hired Saleh and LaFleur, making Wilson the perfect fit for the Shanahan offense?  LOL proof!!!!

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51 minutes ago, slats said:

Just let him learn on the job like everyone else. 

Rodgers, Brady, Mahomes, Herbert, Watson, L. Jackson are QB's who sat from anywhere to a couple games to multiple seasons.  

R. Wilson, J. Allen, and Murray started right away.

Both successful groups but this notion that the QB's are routinely thrown into the fray is inaccurate.  Especially when 4 of top 5 QB's in the league are in the group that sat to start their careers.

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He has not changed.
ZW was an order from ownership not a scouting job by JD 
They started from the conclusion that they had to draft ZW and worked backward
For all this talk about leak proof it was a pick people were penciling around January. Everyone knew it would happen. Because woody wanted it to happen. 


Geeez man you’ve really fallen off the deep end.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app
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5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Give me an example where Woody hasnt changed and has had anything to do with drafting a player.  Other than some dream you had where Woody talked the GM who he has given free reign over the team to draft a QB at # 2 who, get this, was the hands down overwhelming pick at # 2 behind Lawrence.  You also think that the decision to draft Lawrence was because of Shahid Khan?  That he wanted him over another QB? 

People were penciling Wilson at two in January so in thinking thats proof Woody had meddled with the pick.  You mean just after most outlets had moved Wilson above all the others and made him the #2 choice?  Or better yet, wait for it, after we hired Saleh and LaFleur, making Wilson the perfect fit for the Shanahan offense?  LOL proof!!!!

The outlets moved ZW to 2 when it became clear he was going number 2. Because the owner demanded it 

 

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6 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

 


Geeez man you’ve really fallen off the deep end.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

If trey Lance had a billionaire uncle who's fortune 500 company sponsored the Jets, he'd be the pick instead 

It was a pure business play. 

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1 minute ago, bitonti said:

If trey Lance had a billionaire uncle who's fortune 500 company sponsored the Jets, he'd be the pick instead 

It was a pure business play. 

Not sure I agree with this angle but I dig that you're all in on it lol.

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