How the Jets should throw Zach Wilson into the fire | Boomer and Gio

[slats]

22 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Trey Lance won’t host a passing camp because he hasn’t been anointed the starter of his NFL team as of the time he was drafted. Which team do you think has a better plan to develop their QBs: the Niners or the team allegedly run by dudes who are supposed to be replicating the Niners Way? Wilson wasn’t even the declared starter for BYU at this point last year, but now Wilson is supposed to be the avowed starter here before he participates in his first NFL practice? Why does BYU have a more rigorous set of standards for naming the starting QB than we do? Seems a little silly. 

Again, I'd prefer to do it the way SF will presumably going to bring along Lance, but they're in a much different situation than the Jets, and bringing in a veteran to start a few games in no way, shape, or form, would be emulating what the 49ers are doing with an established QB -established in their offense- at the helm. 

And Zach Wilson has two or three times as many college starts as Lance. Think Jax is bringing in someone to start the season for Lawrence? Should they? Only difference I see is that you think Lawrence is dreamier. 

11 minutes ago, Pac said:

Rodgers, Brady, Mahomes, Herbert, Watson, L. Jackson are QB's who sat from anywhere to a couple games to multiple seasons.  

R. Wilson, J. Allen, and Murray started right away.

Both successful groups but this notion that the QB's are routinely thrown into the fray is inaccurate.  Especially when 4 of top 5 QB's in the league are in the group that sat to start their careers.

If the Jets had a starting QB on the roster when they drafted Wilson, I'd be more than happy to have that starter start the season. The Jets don't have that. And bringing in someone from the outside, IMHO, sends the message that you don't think Zach is ready to start. 

This is all moot, of course, because the Jets have every intention of having Zach start opening day, and I think it's the right call given the circumstances. 

[BCJet]

3 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

If we can bring in a plus starting caliber Center by way of trade prior to camp, I would feel much more secure for Zach.

McGovern next to a rookie AVT worries me. Hoping salary cap considerations or the numbers game can shake one loose.

Take a look back at the second half grades on McGovern from last year.  He improved quite a bit as the season wore on, and that was with 2 sub-par guards next to him.

OL, and especially center, requires chemistry and the entire line last year had virtually no offseason together which made it very difficult to gel.  There is absolutely no reason to worry about McGovern, which is why JD didnt address center in FA or the draft, we have a good one who fits our system and who will be a lot better with AVT next to him instead of Connor Mcdermott

[Sperm Edwards]

9 minutes ago, Pac said:

Rodgers, Brady, Mahomes, Herbert, Watson, L. Jackson are QB's who sat from anywhere to a couple games to multiple seasons.  

R. Wilson, J. Allen, and Murray started right away.

Both successful groups but this notion that the QB's are routinely thrown into the fray is inaccurate.  Especially when 4 of top 5 QB's in the league are in the group that sat to start their careers.

Herbert and Watson did not sit a couple of games, let alone a couple seasons.

Herbert sat one game, and if not for the chest pains & the eventual lung puncture thing, could have / would have sat several more. If he’d sat out the season and then performed well, the sillies would have pointed out his early benching as the reason for his eventual success. 

Watson sat for the first half of game one, and if that was planned it was pretty stupid one. To deny him all those extra offseason reps (and week 1 prep reps) so he could be thrown in cold at halftime for his first NFL exposure. Also the Jets’ OL is noticeably better than the Texans’ line from Watson’s rookie season. Also it seems his benching was 100% unnecessary, but again it’s doubtless if he’d sat for 8 games or a full season, you’d have pointed to that as his reason for success.

Rodgers and Mahomes had major work done on their form. Their teams were also SB contenders with the incumbent QB, making it not only unnecessary, but potentially counterproductive. Apples and oranges.

L.Jackson was similary considered super raw coming out of school. To draw a similarity is a stretch even for those bending  over backwards to do their stretches. 

Brady was 4th string entering camp, behind a QB who was recently handed a $100MM contract. There’s also zero evidence he’d have been a failure - that season or in his career thereafter - if he’d started as a rookie.

If he looks lost this summer, then he should absolutely sit. If not, then he’s sitting just for the sake of sitting him, and there’s no proven benefit to sitting a rookie if he looks ready to hit the field.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

I would stress that having a highly intelligent Center and stud blindside Tackle goes a long way towards helping your rookie Qb. A vet Center helps identify the defense and rolling protection to counteract pressure. LT, in Zachs case, helps him feel confident in the pocket.

The Jets’ backup center was Herbert’s starting center all last year. 

[JohnnyLV]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

A quick perusal of the Jets-aligned media apparatus shows that everyone is writing the same story today—Zach Wilson should start Day One. Either 1. The Jets beat is 100% invested in wall to wall Zach Wilson coverage because it’s easy to write those stories -or- 2. Douglas and the Johnsons don’t want to commit any real money into signing a viable veteran starting QB, and they’re just going to roll Wilson out there to save $3 million in cash. 
 

Wilson has an injury history, he’s physically small, and he had the luxury of playing behind a line that protected him like the Crown Jewels last year. I think it’s a mistake to send him out there on Day One to get smacked around by any NFL pass rush until he’s 80% ready to play and the line has had a few months to figure out what they’re doing. Wilson will be sacked more times in his first two games than he was all of last year. You want to risk him breaking in half for what? To appease Boomer Esiason and Connor Hughes?

You just keep throwing the same BS out there incessantly in every thread on Wilson and it is really tiring. Especially since he is not small and does not have an injury history. He was injured tackling someone and broke his hand, and the shoulders were wear and tear and NOT an injury and not something that happened in games, He has shown no propensity for soft tissue issues or other problematic injuries like knee hamstring and ankle injuries.

[T0mShane]

13 minutes ago, slats said:

Think Jax is bringing in someone to start the season for Lawrence? Should they? Only difference I see is that you think Lawrence is dreamier. 

Or, Lawrence started and excelled for three years at the highest levels of college football and Zach Wilson was one sprained ankle away from being forever buried on the BYU depth chart last September.

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, johnnysd said:

Especially since he is not small and does not have an injury history

Stop.

[bitonti]

21 minutes ago, Pac said:

Not sure I agree with this angle but I dig that you're all in on it lol.

His uncle's airline is "a preferred airline partner of the NYJ"

That's on top of Virgin as the official airline of the NFL

not every team has a preferred airline partner

We're not talking about faking the moon landing, like it's some wild, baseless conspiracy theory.

Zach Wilson's uncle has a publicly traded company that writes sizable checks to the NYJ. Terminal 5 at JFK is all JetBlue. 

If they pass on Zach those checks could vanish or maybe they pay the Giants instead. If Zach plays amazing those checks increase in size. It's a sponsor relationship.

No one draft pick the Jets could make would affect the bottom line in such a real way.  Winning or losing doesn't affect the bottom line. They lose all the games are still printing money. Sponsorship, luxury boxes, that's Woody's prize.

I'm not convinced Woody even cares about football. Like would any of us lend this team to our brother for four years and leave? We can't even stay away from a message board. 

 But sponsor activity like MetLife signing a 25 year stadium naming deal very much Woody will pay attention to. JetBlue is a sponsor. This isn't rocket science. 

[32EBoozer]

6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The Jets’ backup center was Herbert’s starting center all last year. 

And they let him walk to sign an $63 m FA Center. In his defense, Herbert had a good year. Must have been some acne on his stats..

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

His uncle's airline is "a preferred airline partner of the NYJ"

That's on top of Virgin as the official airline of the NFL

not every team has a preferred airline partner

We're not talking about faking the moon landing, like it's some wild, baseless conspiracy theory.

Zach Wilson's uncle has a company that writes sizable checks to the NYJ. It's that simple. 

If they pass on Zach those checks could vanish. If Zach plays amazing those checks increase in size. It's a sponsor-entertainment relationship.

No one draft pick the Jets could make would offset the price of the pick in such a real way.  Winning or losing doesn't affect the bottom line. 

Woody doesn't really care about football. But sponsor activity like MetLife signing a 25 year stadium naming deal very much Woody will pay attention to. JetBlue is a sponsor. This isn't rocket science. 

wut?

[Pac]

6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Herbert and Watson did not sit a couple of games, let alone a couple seasons.

Herbert sat one game, and if not for the chest pains & the eventual lung puncture thing, could have / would have sat several more. If he’d sat out the season and then performed well, the sillies would have pointed out his early benching as the reason for his eventual success. 

Watson sat for the first half of game one, and if that was planned it was pretty stupid one. To deny him all those extra offseason reps (and week 1 prep reps) so he could be thrown in cold at halftime for his first NFL exposure. Also the Jets’ OL is noticeably better than the Texans’ line from Watson’s rookie season. Also it seems his benching was 100% unnecessary, but again it’s doubtless if he’d sat for 8 games or a full season, you’d have pointed to that as his reason for success.

Rodgers and Mahomes had major work done on their form. Their teams were also SB contenders with the incumbent QB, making it not only unnecessary, but potentially counterproductive. Apples and oranges.

L.Jackson was similary considered super raw coming out of school. To draw a similarity is a stretch even for those bending  over backwards to do their stretches. 

Brady was 4th string entering camp, behind a QB who was recently handed a $100MM contract. There’s also zero evidence he’d have been a failure - that season or in his career thereafter - if he’d started as a rookie.

If he looks lost this summer, then he should absolutely sit. If not, then he’s sitting just for the sake of sitting him, and there’s no proven benefit to sitting a rookie if he looks ready to hit the field.

The plans in place for Watson and Herbert are what's being advocated for Wilson.  I'm fine with him sitting the entire year - especially if a veteran starter playing well.  That said I acknowledge the media and fans will not sit by patiently while the golden boy sits on the bench.

Even 1 month of watching and learning will serve him well.  It wasn't a coincidence that after missing 3 games in his rookie season Darnold came back to end the season on fire.  He cited being able to watch McCowns preparation during the week as a catalyst for his turn around.  Then Gase came in, Douglas didn't support him at all, and here we are.

[bitonti]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Or, Lawrence started and excelled for three years at the highest levels of college football and Zach Wilson was one sprained ankle away from being forever buried on the BYU depth chart last September.

Trevor Lawrence won a Natty as a freshman

Zach Wilson won the Idaho Potato Bowl. 

[bitonti]

13 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The Jets’ backup center was Herbert’s starting center all last year. 

yes and he was so great at it they paid Corey Linsley all the money to replace him 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, 32EBoozer said:

And they let him walk to sign an $63 m FA Center. In his defense, Herbert had a good year. Must have been some acne on his stats..

My point was obvious: even a lousy center isn’t an excuse for someone playing like Darnold. It’s a convenient excuse, but it doesn’t hold water. 

I very much doubt McGovern will repeat his early-2020 season performance. If he does, there’s an experienced backup to mop up the rest of the season and then they can seek an upgrade in 2022. If he goes back to prior form, then the Jets have a center for at least another year, and can either still seek an upgrade anyway or they could focus their center-finding resources elsewhere for another season if they see fit. As likely as not, they’ll draft one next year; how highly they do will depend greatly on how McGovern performs.

The problem Jets fans have - beyond having to root for the Jets - is they’ve seen pure hot & cold at the center position for 20+ years. It’s either been Mawae/Mangold in their primes or it’s been guys playing at sub-backup levels, so there’s a tendency to see all centers as all-or-none. Meanwhile most of the league’s teams & QBs get by perfectly fine with just an ok center. An even better one is of course welcome, but it’s hardly imperative. 

[Sperm Edwards]

7 minutes ago, Pac said:

The plans in place for Watson and Herbert are what's being advocated for Wilson.  I'm fine with him sitting the entire year - especially if a veteran starter playing well.  That said I acknowledge the media and fans will not sit by patiently while the golden boy sits on the bench.

Even 1 month of watching and learning will serve him well.  It wasn't a coincidence that after missing 3 games in his rookie season Darnold came back to end the season on fire.  He cited being able to watch McCowns preparation during the week as a catalyst for his turn around.  Then Gase came in, Douglas didn't support him at all, and here we are.

I’m saying the plans in place for them were totally unnecessary, yet you’re calling them smart. 

Sitting him for the entire year, without him showing a concreate reason why this summer in practice & preseason games, is stupid. If he looks clueless and totally unready this summer, then he should sit until he doesn’t look clueless and totally unready.

I take for granted that all young QBs have things to learn — even those who performed really well as rookies. 

Darnold was a different QB. Hopefully Wilson isn’t as bad.

This fantasy with a simplistic formula - omg if only everyone could see the pattern I’ve seen - conflates causation with correlation. It doesn’t take intelligence to fail to see the difference between the two. 

[JohnnyLV]

21 minutes ago, BCJet said:

Take a look back at the second half grades on McGovern from last year.  He improved quite a bit as the season wore on, and that was with 2 sub-par guards next to him.

OL, and especially center, requires chemistry and the entire line last year had virtually no offseason together which made it very difficult to gel.  There is absolutely no reason to worry about McGovern, which is why JD didnt address center in FA or the draft, we have a good one who fits our system and who will be a lot better with AVT next to him instead of Connor Mcdermott

Actually the entire OL was semi competent the last 5 or 6 games but Sam held onto the ball too long a lot so there will still a lot of pressures and sacks. AVT will improve the entire OL and very much improve LT and C. The blocking scheme is a better fit for Fant. We have a ? at RG hopefully Cam Clark can step up. The offensive scheme also helps alleviate pressure, and despite not facing pressure frequently Wilson was actually the best of the Top 5 handling it. I think Wilson will be fine. He will certainly face some pressure but it won't be like last year.

[32EBoozer]

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

My point was obvious: even a lousy center isn’t an excuse for someone playing like Darnold. It’s a convenient excuse, but it doesn’t hold water. 

Obvious to you. I could have taken your original post 5 different ways. Now that you drilled down, I get it. I hope everyone is correct and McGovern slots in nicely to be the lynch pin to  either side of the line

[Sperm Edwards]

9 minutes ago, bitonti said:

yes and he was so great at it they paid Corey Linsley all the money to replace him 

 

Are you completely missing the point that even a lousy center doesn’t make a good QB bad, and isn’t a reason to sit a rookie QB?

Upgrading from a lousy center who’s never been average to above average before is hardly the same as the Jets’ situation.

I was in favor of throwing our hat into the Linsley ring myself, but don’t think it’s a situation where certain doom awaits because they didn’t. 

[JohnnyLV]

15 minutes ago, bitonti said:

His uncle's airline is "a preferred airline partner of the NYJ"

That's on top of Virgin as the official airline of the NFL

not every team has a preferred airline partner

We're not talking about faking the moon landing, like it's some wild, baseless conspiracy theory.

Zach Wilson's uncle has a publicly traded company that writes sizable checks to the NYJ. Terminal 5 at JFK is all JetBlue. 

If they pass on Zach those checks could vanish or maybe they pay the Giants instead. If Zach plays amazing those checks increase in size. It's a sponsor relationship.

No one draft pick the Jets could make would affect the bottom line in such a real way.  Winning or losing doesn't affect the bottom line. They lose all the games are still printing money. Sponsorship, luxury boxes, that's Woody's prize.

I'm not convinced Woody even cares about football. Like would any of us lend this team to our brother for four years and leave? We can't even stay away from a message board. 

 But sponsor activity like MetLife signing a 25 year stadium naming deal very much Woody will pay attention to. JetBlue is a sponsor. This isn't rocket science. 

This is one of the dumbest posts ever. I am sure you believe all the other BS conspiracy theories we are subject to as well. Jets picked Wilson because he is the clear #2 propspect in the draft. No other reason. You and some others on this board are approaching PatsFanTx levels of irrelavance and intentional incitement and trolling

[JohnnyLV]

21 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Stop.

I should stop posting facts? Whatever dude

[Sperm Edwards]

9 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

Obvious to you. I could have taken your original post 5 different ways. Now that you drilled down, I get it. I hope everyone is correct and McGovern slots in nicely to be the lynch pin to  either side of the line

Fair enough; I didn’t think it was a subtle point, but then I know what I’m thinking in the first place . Also I’m constipated so it puts me in a bad/snippy mood. 

There were so many reasons the OL looked lousy last year that won’t be factors this year. It’s also absolutely the case that the meh/bleh performers from last year can still look just as bad this year. I just doubt it’ll happen where they’re that level bad again this year, even if they’re still relative disappointments. 

LT no longer a rookie coming off a limited camp.

LG supposedly an elite rookie, familiar with zone blocking as opposed to just locking up on one guy.

C through RT are no longer on a totally new line in a totally new system with limited practice. And yeah, in case that’s a factor after getting paid, McGovern had no one to seriously challenge him for the starting center job last year.

New OL coach.

Full summer of practice, plus live preseason action.

It’s doubtful the WR corps will be as thin, even if there are 3 injuries again. With or without those injuries, there (presumably) won’t be a disproportionate number of dropbacks that aren’t designed short-yardage plays to his backs or TE.

So I’d be pretty surprised if things looked about the same, let alone exactly the same or worse, for whomever it is lining up at QB.

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, johnnysd said:

I should stop posting facts? Whatever dude

You said he doesn’t have an injury history, then listed the injuries he’s had, but we shouldn’t acknowledge them because they’re one-offs, but the labrum surgery he had on his shoulder at 19 years of age was due to “wear and tear.” It’s ok to acknowledge he’s had injuries in the past that have hampered him, and to acknowledge that he’s thin, and to also hope that he stays healthy in the future. 

[Snell41]

If trey Lance had a billionaire uncle who's fortune 500 company sponsored the Jets, he'd be the pick instead 
It was a pure business play. 

Nothing you just wrote changed my mind at all lol, just solidified my first statement honestly. If you believe this nonsense then why even watch football?


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

You said he doesn’t have an injury history, then listed the injuries he’s had, but we shouldn’t acknowledge them because they’re one-offs, but the labrum surgery he had on his shoulder at 19 years of age was due to “wear and tear.” It’s ok to acknowledge he’s had injuries in the past that have hampered him, and to acknowledge that he’s thin, and to also hope that he stays healthy in the future. 

Just curious — if he’s innately injury prone, what will change by sitting him for a month?

[T0mShane]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

Just curious — if he’s innately injury prone, what will change by sitting him for a month?

I didn’t say he was injury prone. I said he has an injury history. I do, however, think that sitting him for a bit might help him in all aspects—physically, emotionally, mentally, culturally, etc. He’s a thin, young-young dude from Utah who has never been too far away from home and who has had issues with leadership and being a good teammate (this is according to him, btw). There is no need to anoint him, and there are enough reasons to take the pressure off of him by not naming him the de facto starter on May 7th. What’s the rush? All this talk about him having to “earn the job” seems pretty flimsy when there isn’t a viable challenger on the roster and everyone in the org is talking about him like he’s the second coming. It’s a mistake, imo.

[bitonti]

15 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

Nothing you just wrote changed my mind at all lol, just solidified my first statement honestly. If you believe this nonsense then why even watch football?

they are a two win team and haven't made the playoffs in a decade, I could ask you the same thing 

 

 

[FidelioJet]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

 

 

Or, Saleh and JD have *no* history of developing a QB and are now working for a franchise that has a storied history of defenestrating young QBs, so maybe declaring that “Saleh and Douglas are QB development experts who deserve the benefit of the doubt and who aren’t vulnerable to outside pressures” is a wee bit hasty?

No one called anyone experts.

You stated ZW was starting because the Jets were cheap or wanted good press..

I called BS on that....

There is simply nothing to indicate that is true - while there is plenty to indicate it's not...

I'm glad you're sticking with the Zach Wilson is a bust though.   Keep things interesting around here.

[bitonti]

27 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

This is one of the dumbest posts ever. I am sure you believe all the other BS conspiracy theories we are subject to as well. Jets picked Wilson because he is the clear #2 propspect in the draft. No other reason. You and some others on this board are approaching PatsFanTx levels of irrelavance and intentional incitement and trolling

Trevor Lawrence was the clear #1 prospect in the draft

Kyle Pitts was the clear #2 prospect in the draft 

It's still kind of a mystery how Zach Wilson got up so high without any runs, jumps, mph readings or compelling film vs Power 5. 

 

[PS17]

55 minutes ago, bitonti said:

His uncle's airline is "a preferred airline partner of the NYJ"

That's on top of Virgin as the official airline of the NFL

not every team has a preferred airline partner

We're not talking about faking the moon landing, like it's some wild, baseless conspiracy theory.

Zach Wilson's uncle has a publicly traded company that writes sizable checks to the NYJ. Terminal 5 at JFK is all JetBlue. 

If they pass on Zach those checks could vanish or maybe they pay the Giants instead. If Zach plays amazing those checks increase in size. It's a sponsor relationship.

No one draft pick the Jets could make would affect the bottom line in such a real way.  Winning or losing doesn't affect the bottom line. They lose all the games are still printing money. Sponsorship, luxury boxes, that's Woody's prize.

I'm not convinced Woody even cares about football. Like would any of us lend this team to our brother for four years and leave? We can't even stay away from a message board. 

 But sponsor activity like MetLife signing a 25 year stadium naming deal very much Woody will pay attention to. JetBlue is a sponsor. This isn't rocket science. 

[T0mShane]

18 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

 

There is simply nothing to indicate that is true - while there is plenty to indicate it's not...

I have some good news for the Jets if they are consciously looking to avoid good press.

[varjet]

I think the Jets would think about starting someone else at QB is there was a logical candidate that did not cost draft picks or a fortune.  These is not.  I don’t think Foles is not it  

Would you start Hoyer? 

[Jethead]

3 minutes ago, varjet said:

I think the Jets would think about starting someone else at QB is there was a logical candidate that did not cost draft picks or a fortune.  These is not.  I don’t think Foles is not it  

Would you start Hoyer? 

Don't think so.

No.

Zach is the Day 1 QB1 of the NYJ

[undertow]

Who cares what Boomer and Gio thinks I only care about what Maggie Grey and that kid the NYDN just hired who just started watching football last year thinks.

[FidelioJet]

27 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I have some good news for the Jets if they are consciously looking to avoid good press.

lol..

They aren't going out of their to generate it either.  Which, I agree is not the norm for this franchise.

Now, I'll give you this - Woody is back.  And Woody was always a media/positive press before football kinda guy. 

But JD has been focused solely on wins.  Hard to that any other way..Thing might change for the worse - for now we're a team that cares about winning as top priority - until proven otherwise.

[bitonti]

42 minutes ago, PS17 said:

 

Ya know Ocham's Razor - there's a less popular heuristic called "Hanlon's Razor" which stated "never subscribe to malice what can be explained by simple incompetence." 

the reason why Hanlon's Razor is less popular than Ocham's Razor (the simplest explanation) is because in the 1950's people said the mafia was a conspiracy theory and they cited Hanlon. 

turns out organized crime was real and Hanlon was discredited

all of this is to say yes maybe the Jets' blatant overdrafting of a top 20-30 prospect at 2 overall can be explained by incompetence

sure maybe they overlooked all his physical shortcomings and injury history and weak film and overrated his accuracy like everyone else. Mistakes do happen. Teams are dumb. 

or maybe there's an even simpler explanation: Woody hearts money. There was a conflict of interest.  

https://www.jetblue.com/our-company/sponsorships