Do you think the Jets really want to pay Maye?

[32EBoozer]

39 minutes ago, bitonti said:

They could have paid Robby Anderson or the ST All Pro's. They found guys worth paying, despite drafting like ass 

this quote above hasn't been true since the Rex era. 2011 or so was the last time they did what you're describing

ever since then it's been a dance with the cap floor not the cap ceiling 

Robby could have eliminated the need for Mims & his contract would be up next year.... 1 year w/ Wilson. Nothing gained or lost.

Mims, Davis, Cole, Moore. Next year= Davis, Mims, Moore & 2022 pick. Wash, dry & repeat every year.

[AlexVanDyke]

51 minutes ago, bitonti said:

They could have paid Robby Anderson or the ST All Pro's. They found guys worth paying, despite drafting like ass 

this quote above hasn't been true since the Rex era. 2011 or so was the last time they did what you're describing

ever since then it's been a dance with the cap floor not the cap ceiling 

I don’t disagree I don’t think managing to the optimal cap is the way to build championships.  But JD gets a pass bc I don’t think he’s totally against moving on from past regime players given they have been around losing.  If he continues this with his guys, it will be a different story 

[whodeawhodat]

3 hours ago, bitonti said:

I don't even like Marcus Maye but the Jets unwillingness to pay their own players has become a detriment to the franchise 

the players have learned that the path to the playoffs on the Jets is to ball out and get traded 

the salary cap is exploited by PAYING stars. Look at Kansas City. Paying Maye would actually create more cap space in the short term, and the cap goes up every year.  The cap is a joke. there's no reason to be this far below. It's Jacksonville, the Jets and Cinci. Aka our high pick draft buddies every year. 

creating more cap space for resigning a meh player = more posts about how cheap ownership is

[jgb]

 

5 hours ago, bitonti said:

Since everyone's so interested in what I want: the New York Jets to win games. 

Remember that? Winning? That's the point of this 

not to blow smoke up each other's hoo-hahs all offseason and then act all surprised when the team hasn't won a game for the first 8 weeks of the season 

I was always amused that there was a strong contingent who accused those who concluded that Darnold was a bad NFL QB of being "not real Jets fans" but then they'd turn around and excuse Darnold's performance by blaming literally everyone else associated with the team.

I actually think this offense can surprise people with competent QB play -- Maybe I'm the realest Jets fan on here!. I hope to Hell Wilson can deliver it (I'm skeptical for many reasons).

[T0mShane]

I don’t think Douglas would let Saleh go out in front of the media and say that Maye is going to be extended unless they really are going to extend Maye.

[jgb]

6 hours ago, bitonti said:

I think you found a way to insult both of us at once!

[Jets Voice of Reason]

I think like with any trade or negotiation JD has a line in the sand he’s willing to go up to but not overextend himself. 

[bitonti]

21 minutes ago, jgb said:

I actually think this offense can surprise people with competent QB play -- Maybe I'm the realest Jets fan on here!. I hope to Hell Wilson can deliver it (I'm skeptical for many reasons).

Competent QB play in the Idaho Potato Bowl is very different than life in the AFC East. Wilson is going to get intercepted, blasted from the sieve right side line and rinse and repeat for 17 games 

There's a branch of the multiverse where Zach Wilson lands in an established program and has a successful career. 

In this timeline, the Jets are going to ruin this dude by starting him well before he's ready, with half an offense around him and we are all going to watch it and 3 years from now it's hey wonder what Happened to Zach Wilson 

[HessStation]

I’m totally cool not paying Maye if he wants anything more than a little bit more than the league average 

[Be_a_Jet]

I’m okay with not paying Maye but I would like him signed. 
 

I want the Jets to be in the business of signing their draft picks to second contracts. We draft two safeties in the 1st and 2nd round, they BOTH end up being good...and we don’t sign either of them ? Not like we have a good backup either. 
 

sign em and give us a way out in 3 years - we’ll be fine and it won’t tie us down for when we need to extend these newer rookies. 

[Savage69]

58 minutes ago, Be_a_Jet said:

I’m okay with not paying Maye but I would like him signed. 
 

I want the Jets to be in the business of signing their draft picks to second contracts. We draft two safeties in the 1st and 2nd round, they BOTH end up being good...and we don’t sign either of them ? Not like we have a good backup either. 
 

sign em and give us a way out in 3 years - we’ll be fine and it won’t tie us down for when we need to extend these newer rookies. 

And what happened with KJ?? The Tuna traded his complaining butt to Tampa much like JD did with Jamal.. BB got rid of plenty pro bowl players on the Pats and Maye a good player never made a Pro Bowl..

[Be_a_Jet]

48 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

And what happened with KJ?? The Tuna traded his complaining butt to Tampa much like JD did with Jamal.. BB got rid of plenty pro bowl players on the Pats and Maye a good player never made a Pro Bowl..

Maye is not KJ nor Jamal. He's a good team player and even though I don't give a crap about what BB does just for the sake of this argument I will say your point is flawed. 

Belichick doesn't sign the big time pro bowlers much, that's true, he signs the good team players that play smart like the McCourty brothers over the years and Chung and Ninkovich, etc.  I want Maye to be signed because he's a good smart player - don't care that he isn't a dumb pro-bowler which is a popularity contest anyways.

 

Its' not the end of the world if he doesn't get signed but I'm just saying he's a good example of someone who I'd like to keep around - he's not getting top safety numbers anyway.  

[jetophile]

21 hours ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Well. To be fair. 

Adams was so good to the point of multiple All Pros Pro Bowls and 1st round picks. 

JD used our Adams picks (1st and 3rd) in order to protect Zach Wilson and open up holes alongside Becton for Michael Carter; by trading up for Vera-Tucker. 

And JD could also have a lottery pick with Seattle's 1st round pick for Jamal Adams come 2022 because Seattle had an absolutely horrible off-season. 

I never wanted to trade Jamal to Dallas for #17. I always said we could get multiple 1st round picks for the kid. That we did. 

JD is the man.

Unloaded Sam and Jamal for picks picks picks and more picks. 

Could be so much fun 2021 A.) Rooting for Jets WINS and B.) Rooting for Carolina and Seattle LOSES. 

Say what you say about Jamal but he was on everyone's top 30 list. His on field play profited us an exciting future. 

You were staunchly against and cried about the trade. Now you're back-pedalling and doing selective weeding. What else is new.  If I wasn't so old and lazy, I'd dig up your own words and bury you with them. 

[jgb]

3 hours ago, bitonti said:

Competent QB play in the Idaho Potato Bowl is very different than life in the AFC East. Wilson is going to get intercepted, blasted from the sieve right side line and rinse and repeat for 17 games 

There's a branch of the multiverse where Zach Wilson lands in an established program and has a successful career. 

In this timeline, the Jets are going to ruin this dude by starting him well before he's ready, with half an offense around him and we are all going to watch it and 3 years from now it's hey wonder what Happened to Zach Wilson 

It is the most likely scenario. Most QBs bust. That is before considering Wilson’s specific challenges, which are significant.

For now i choose to focus on the positive while acknowledging that the downside is great. What other option do I have? By week 8 we will pretty much know what we have in him. If the stage and game is too big or not.

[jetstream23]

Maye has been the most consistently good player on the Jets defense for several years. He leads by example, never complains, just does his job and plays really, really well. I started a thread during last season saying that he is one of the key pieces that should be kept and we should try to build around. Despite having some promising guys in the secondary like Hall and drafting some more this year, Maye is really the only guy I trust right now in that third level of the defense. At some point JD has to show that good players who are also good character guys and were drafted by the Jets will be kept here long-term and not leveraged for some draft picks.

[jgb]

Thread title should just be “do you think the Jets really want to pay?” And the answer would be “no.”

[kdels62]

5 minutes ago, jgb said:

Thread title should just be “do you think the Jets really want to pay?” And the answer would be “no.”

“Do the Jets have anyone worth paying?” Thats the real question 

[slats]

18 hours ago, bitonti said:

They could have paid Robby Anderson or the ST All Pro's. They found guys worth paying, despite drafting like ass 

this quote above hasn't been true since the Rex era. 2011 or so was the last time they did what you're describing

ever since then it's been a dance with the cap floor not the cap ceiling 

Joe Douglas botched Robby Anderson. He either should've traded him before the deadline the year before or retained him. I think he understands that. I believe he's said as much. He was a rookie GM last year and rookies make mistakes while they learn on the job. His approach to this year's offseason & draft was a little different than last year. He'll continue to evolve. 

Meanwhile, managing the cap intelligently is intelligent. His two big free agent signings got small signing bonuses and large roster bonuses so that the vast majority of the money comes off this year. No guaranteed money after two years. So he's taking advantage of the space he has now while saving space in the future. I don't understand complaining about this. We've seen the Jets win the offseason with a bunch of high-priced contracts only to see those high-priced players flame out.

Joe Douglas isn't rebuilding the team, he's building it from the ground up. Getting two first rounders for a SS instead of paying him $15M+/year is part of building a team intelligently. He wants to run this organization the way that smart organizations do. Teams like the Pats, Ravens, Steelers who always seem to let guys go before overpaying them, then have their replacements already backing them up, ready to step in. The Jets gave Le'Veon Bell $27M and crapped the bed, while the Steelers didn't miss a beat with the $660K James Conner. 

JD traded away Maccagnan mistakes for two firsts, a second, two thirds, a fourth and a fifth, rather than paying them. There's no brilliant argument against doing what he did there. He's building his team, and he's using the assets at his disposal to do so. He's added more than a full years worth of draft picks to get the starting lineups up and running, and starting the pipeline of talent behind them. He's doing it the right way. The right way takes time. He secured his 6-year contract so that he could be patient, even if the fans struggle with that. I'm willing to trudge thru this foundational season if it's the start of something sustainable. 

[Joe W. Namath]

10 hours ago, jgb said:

Thread title should just be “do you think the Jets really want to pay?” And the answer would be “no.”

Joe isnt paying guys that he didnt bring here.  Why is that hard to understand?

Once the guys he drafted and brought in are up for a new contracts, players will start getting paid as long as they are worth it.

[Dcat]

9 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Joe isnt paying guys that he didnt bring here.  Why is that hard to understand?

Once the guys he drafted and brought in are up for a new contracts, players will start getting paid as long as they are worth it.

@bitonti wants them to pay players that are nowhere near worth the asking price.  Just for the sake of "playing your players".  He'd rather overpay guys like jamal Adams or Maye or even Darnold even though they aren't worth anywhere near the asking price.  As if overpaying the way he suggests is a good strategy.  LOL.  Dumbest thing ever.   And then he claims the jets are somehow unique among NFL teams doing this.  LOL.  I've shown him multiple times how other teams do the same using data from OTC.  Totally ignored.  He's hell bent on his false narrative.  

[bitonti]

5 minutes ago, Dcat said:

@bitonti wants them to pay players that are nowhere near worth the asking price.  Just for the sake of "playing your players".  He'd rather overpay guys like jamal Adams or Maye or even Darnold even though they aren't worth anywhere near the asking price.  As if overpaying the way he suggests is a good strategy.  LOL.  Dumbest thing ever.

I want them to spend as much as the other teams 

Like signing a real right guard for example.

I don't want them to overpay, but they should fund the roster like everyone else. 

It wasn't too long ago people thought they'd sign thuney and Linsley and the fact is they had enough cap to do so 

They came back with Dan feeney 

[THE BARON]

On 5/8/2021 at 9:56 PM, AFJF said:

Jets say they're working toward an extension with Maye after brining in six guys with experience at safety:

Lamarcus Joyner

Jamien Sherwood

Hamsah Nasirildeen

Michael Carter

Jordyn Peters

Brendon White

and you could also make a case for UDFA Isaiah Dunn who is listed as a CB but who some feel should transition to safety in the NFL.

I mean, I know some of these guys are expected to transition to LB and some won't make the roster, but that's too big a number to ignore IMO.  Bringing in six (potentially seven) guys who can play safety while Maye is in the final year of his deal sure looks like they'd like to find his replacement at 20% of the price Maye will cost.

I hear Seattle values the safety position.  Perhaps Joe Douglas can get two more number one draft picks for him.  

[Dcat]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I want them to spend as much as the other teams 

Like signing a real right guard for example.

I don't want them to overpay, but they should fund the roster like everyone else. 

They do.

[bitonti]

15 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Joe isnt paying guys that he didnt bring here.  Why is that hard to understand?

Once the guys he drafted and brought in are up for a new contracts, players will start getting paid as long as they are worth it.

Keep this in mind when they trade qw 

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, Dcat said:

They do.

They spend like Jacksonville and Cincinnati 

They are currently 3rd most free cap in the league 

[THE BARON]

20 minutes ago, slats said:

Joe Douglas botched Robby Anderson. He either should've traded him before the deadline the year before or retained him. I think he understands that. I believe he's said as much. He was a rookie GM last year and rookies make mistakes while they learn on the job. His approach to this year's offseason & draft was a little different than last year. He'll continue to evolve. 

Meanwhile, managing the cap intelligently is intelligent. His two big free agent signings got small signing bonuses and large roster bonuses so that the vast majority of the money comes off this year. No guaranteed money after two years. So he's taking advantage of the space he has now while saving space in the future. I don't understand complaining about this. We've seen the Jets win the offseason with a bunch of high-priced contracts only to see those high-priced players flame out.

Joe Douglas isn't rebuilding the team, he's building it from the ground up. Getting two first rounders for a SS instead of paying him $15M+/year is part of building a team intelligently. He wants to run this organization the way that smart organizations do. Teams like the Pats, Ravens, Steelers who always seem to let guys go before overpaying them, then have their replacements already backing them up, ready to step in. The Jets gave Le'Veon Bell $27M and crapped the bed, while the Steelers didn't miss a beat with the $660K James Conner. 

JD traded away Maccagnan mistakes for two firsts, a second, two thirds, a fourth and a fifth, rather than paying them. There's no brilliant argument against doing what he did there. He's building his team, and he's using the assets at his disposal to do so. He's added more than a full years worth of draft picks to get the starting lineups up and running, and starting the pipeline of talent behind them. He's doing it the right way. The right way takes time. He secured his 6-year contract so that he could be patient, even if the fans struggle with that. I'm willing to trudge thru this foundational season if it's the start of something sustainable. 

Great evaluation.  Agree 100 %.  Also agree that JD might have made a mistake with Anderson, but it signaled the beginning of new, sound way of building.  A clear vision.  

Considering JD's work with the Eagles, I believed he had the tools to run a team and build intelligently.  My question has always been how he will interact with Johnson.  That is really the key to everything.

Can he keep Johnson out of his way completely ???

If so, the Jets are going to be impressive. 

[slats]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

It wasn't too long ago people thought they'd sign thuney and Linsley and the fact is they had enough cap to do so 

They came back with Dan feeney 

Once the Chiefs got in on Thuney, for that amount of money, the Jets were out if it. No way he's coming to the 2-14 Jets when a team that's been in the last two Super Bowls is on the other line. I mean, can we be a little realistic? 

And if Joe Douglas opted not to make a 30-year-old center who just had his first good season the highest paid center in the league, I'm good with that, too. 

[Dcat]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

They spend like Jacksonville and Cincinnati 

They are currently 3rd most free cap in the league 

The roster has sucked.  When good players deserve to be paid, Douglas will pay them.  You want to spend just for spending sake even though the players are garbage that you want to pay.  Maye is a JAG.  Damn them if they pay him.  The Jets are in the bottom quarter of the league in spending to the cap.  But there are multiple teams lower them and has been the case for years.  I've shown you this using Jason's OTC data.  The Jets are not unique about this as you constantly claim.  Your one-note song is terribly off key.

[bitonti]

4 minutes ago, slats said:

Once the Chiefs got in on Thuney, for that amount of money, the Jets were out if it. No way he's coming to the 2-14 Jets when a team that's been in the last two Super Bowls is on the other line. I mean, can we be a little realistic? 

And if Joe Douglas opted not to make a 30-year-old center who just had his first good season the highest paid center in the league, I'm good with that, too. 

The Jets could have done better than starting Dan feeney and George Fant... that's realistic. They have the space for it. 

Realistically this team has no long term money commited to anyone. As you pointed out. That's a bug not a feature 

[bitonti]

5 minutes ago, Dcat said:

The roster has sucked.  When good players deserve to be paid, Douglas will pay them.  You want to spend just for spending sake even though the players are garbage that you want to pay.  Maye is a JAG.  Damn them if they pay him.  The Jets are in the bottom quarter of the league in spending to the cap.  But there are multiple teams lower them and has been the case for years.  I've shown you this using Jason's OTC data.  The Jets are not unique about this as you constantly claim.  Your one-note song is terribly off key.

It's not spending for spend sake it's commitment to winning 

They also could have signed a tight end or at least tried 

They spend less than 75 percent of the league and their record reflects this 

I wonder if any of those poor spenders are winning games 

[Biggs]

8 minutes ago, bitonti said:

They spend like Jacksonville and Cincinnati 

They are currently 3rd most free cap in the league 

Jax, Cincinnati and the Jets are rebuilding.  All 3 teams have rookie QB's on rookie contracts.  Showing that a correlation exists doesn't prove anything.  You have a lot of work to do to prove any statistically relevant correlation beyond rookie QB's on rookie contracts.   As of today the Chicago Bears are ranked 1st in spending.  They will be cutting or renegiotatng contracts to get under the cap.  That's with their likely starting QB on a rookie contract.  

 

[Joe W. Namath]

5 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Jax, Cincinnati and the Jets are rebuilding.  All 3 teams have rookie QB's on rookie contracts.  Showing that a correlation exists doesn't prove anything.  You have a lot of work to do to prove any statistically relevant correlation beyond rookie QB's on rookie contracts.   As of today the Chicago Bears are ranked 1st in spending.  They will be cutting or renegiotatng contracts to get under the cap.  That's with their likely starting QB on a rookie contract.  

 

They already had to cut a really good player in kyle fuller.  With Joe D, we wont have those problems.  

In Joe D We Trust

[Biggs]

4 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

They already had to cut a really good player in kyle fuller.  With Joe D, we wont have those problems.  

In Joe D We Trust

If Zach turns out to be a top tier NFL QB and his draft picks develop will have a cap killing payroll in no time.

[slats]

16 minutes ago, bitonti said:

The Jets could have done better than starting Dan feeney and George Fant... that's realistic. They have the space for it. 

Realistically this team has no long term money commited to anyone. As you pointed out. That's a bug not a feature 

I'd say it's a feature, not a bug. And a smart one. Spending just to spend, as you frequently suggest, would be dumb. You talk about Fant like he's a slug. He's not. He's fine at RT. Again, who was out there for them to sign? The man's spent first rounders on the OL in consecutive drafts. I think he's interested in getting the OL right. Part of getting it right, though, is getting it at the right price. 

They have a new coaching staff this year and a ton of young players. It's the smart approach to install their program, see what they have, and add players going forward. A couple high-priced contracts wouldn't change the trajectory of this year's team, but once they establish their foundation they might. Rolling that cap space forward to attract FAs to a team perceived as up & coming will be a lot better than being a haven for lazy mercenaries as we've been in the past. I'm well past the Tanny/Mac FA deals, signing players at any cost just to get them here. This way is slower but smarter. The man wants to build thru the draft, and has 19 picks on the team now with 11 more coming next year. Why don't we let him do it the way the good teams do it, and see if it works? Rather than condemn him for the sins of his predecessors. 

[Jethead]

33 minutes ago, bitonti said:

It's not spending for spend sake it's commitment to winning 

They also could have signed a tight end or at least tried 

They spend less than 75 percent of the league and their record reflects this 

I wonder if any of those poor spenders are winning games 

Who are the specific teams you want the Jets to emulate?

Rams? Saints? WFT? Bears? All big spenders with nothing to show for it.

I choose to believe that when the timing and target is right JD will spend and Woody will not constrain him. You can choose to believe otherwise. My way is more fun!