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Biggest bust Ryan Leaf: Zach Wilson is not the Jets savior


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what does Ryan Leaf know about going 2 overall and Busting?  cough cough  

If you got Steve Young a little bit drunk, he would tell you the exact same thing.

Wilsons success or failure will not be due to him as much as all the other guys we have drafted. Average to so so QBs get results on good teams.  Good QBs fail on poor teams. Deshaun Watson

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Ryan Leaf had some mental issues when coming out... completely different scenario than Zach.  It appears Zach is mentally sound and he has surrounded himself with a great support group (including family).  If Zach fails, it will be for completely different reasons than why Ryan Leaf failed.

BUT I do think Zach will be successful because from all indications, the front office and coaching staff are dedicated to make him successful, and supporting him.

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45 minutes ago, slats said:

Leading up to that draft, a lot fans preferred Leaf to Manning because he was big and strong while Manning was skinny and frail and would obviously get killed back there. 

Manning went on to lead the league in interceptions as a rookie, so they were clearly correct. 

I remember it being more about Manning being a mush who folded up under pressure (never beating Spurrier, etc), and that Lead was more of a tough guy. I mean, despite all the fancy-boy numbers, Manning is still one of the great choke artists to ever play the game.

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10 hours ago, Savage69 said:

Ryan Leaf's Drug addiction and being sent to jail somehow sounds like ZW to you??

I wasn’t comparing Leaf to Wilson. I was saying that Young, like Leaf, seems pretty skeptical about the Wilson/Jets partnership, Greg Knapp aside.

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27 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I wasn’t comparing Leaf to Wilson. I was saying that Young, like Leaf, seems pretty skeptical about the Wilson/Jets partnership, Greg Knapp aside.

So people are skeptical about the "JETS" Wilson partnership even though there is an entirely new structure from GM to scouts to coaching staff including 3 very talented coaches working exclusively with Wilson ? Some how because "JETS" things can't possibly be moving in a positive direction ? **** these Idiots and what they have to say, this is a very exciting time for Jets fans and at some point  we can laugh in all their faces.

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35 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I remember it being more about Manning being a mush who folded up under pressure (never beating Spurrier, etc), and that Lead was more of a tough guy. I mean, despite all the fancy-boy numbers, Manning is still one of the great choke artists to ever play the game.

Well yeah Of course Manning was a choke artist he was out there by himself . Right ?  Manning's team, most of the time, was simply over matched.  Its not all about the QB . While QB is the most important position on the field, they are certainly not the only position on the field.

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15 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

People keep pointing at the Jets history which admittedly is a disaster during some coaching staff's and GM's tenure's including the last 3. But with Joe Douglas now in charge and the Johnsons finally realizing someone like him needs to be in charge things look to be changing for the better.

It looks to me like the culture here is changing in a very positive way yet these idiots who report or cover the NFL refuse to acknowledge what's actually going on here. Some do point out how JD has handled the team and how things are changing for the better but the Lazy reports still follow the same old Jets narrative and its getting to be a bit annoying.

If we as fans have lost the desire to hope the change has come then I ask why bother being a Jets fan at all ? If you all are so sure this organization can't change then move the hell on and go root for another team. If you can't be excited about what's going on here the past 6 months then you were never really a fan in the first place.

And FWIW who in the hell cares what Ryan Leaf has to say. Even an idiot fan like Mike Greenberg can't understand what has been going on here through FA and the draft since he just keeps bashing on the team he's supposed to be a fan of with his mock anger. The guy is not a fan he's a fair weather punk who will be fast to jump on the bandwagon once things start changing for the better. 

Good post. 

These hires feel different. In the past, the Jets never landed their top choices. The top guys would just swing thru here so the team they wanted to go to would have to up their offer. They got their top choice in Joe Douglas, and then JD got his top choice in Saleh. These guys are well respected around the league, and the staff is implementing systems that have a proven track record, systems that are supposed to make it easier for the players to succeed. I expect a lot of fits and starts, but also believe that they're actually on the right track. 

Chris Johnson stayed out of the way, hopefully Woody does the same now that he's back from his side gig. He's the one person with the power and ability to **** this up. 

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8 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

leaf-mug-shot.jpg.9f8061bb192e861029da50ffd230b500.jpg

 

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4204691e-758c-4b1f-86fd-50bfc87c7292-Ryan_Leaf.thumb.jpg.14f66b65f7bf0d4fc135e97da6b766d8.jpg

 

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Yes. Credible source. Let's listen to what he has to say, I'm sure he's not bitter and resentful towards anyone....

Ryan Leaf's opinion about Zach Wilson is more valid than 99% of the posters on this board., but I'm not going to mention that every time a fat neckbeard gives their two cents about a player. 

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53 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Well yeah Of course Manning was a choke artist he was out there by himself . Right ?  Manning's team, most of the time, was simply over matched.  Its not all about the QB . While QB is the most important position on the field, they are certainly not the only position on the field.

He had Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Marshall Faulk, and Edgerrin James

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2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

He had Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Marshall Faulk, and Edgerrin James

And he had a viable defense when ? The one year he won the SB in Indy his defense finally stepped up and got some stops. Peyton never had a problem putting up points other than the year the New England defense was allowed to mug Receivers making it near Impossible to do anything.

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2 hours ago, slats said:

Leading up to that draft, a lot fans preferred Leaf to Manning because he was big and strong while Manning was skinny and frail and would obviously get killed back there. 

Manning went on to lead the league in interceptions as a rookie, so they were clearly correct. 

Only problem is that i’d argue we are more like the dumb Chargers than the smart Polian led Colts lol.

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4 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

And he had a viable defense when ? The one year he won the SB in Indy his defense finally stepped up and got some stops. Peyton never had a problem putting up points other than the year the New England defense was allowed to mug Receivers making it near Impossible to do anything.

Fun fact; when Manning won the SB as a Colt, his defense was ranked 23 in pts against.  The year before when they were 1 and done, they were ranked 2nd.  The year after they won the SB, they were ranked #1, and were one and done.

I dont know what this means, nor am I actually trying to say anything but I always found that interesting.

 

 

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Mystic belief in numerology is as good a reason to predict Zach will bust as any other.   Personally I would want a star chart to confirm but the 2 pick of Ryan Leaf and Zach Wilson can't be ignored.  What if Tom Shane turned out to be Q?  Wouldn't that be a kick in the tin foil hat?

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2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I remember it being more about Manning being a mush who folded up under pressure (never beating Spurrier, etc), and that Lead was more of a tough guy. I mean, despite all the fancy-boy numbers, Manning is still one of the great choke artists to ever play the game.

I remember both being reasons. The lack of Manning winning the big game, but also Leaf was the one with the higher ceiling because his arm was stronger. i.e. Manning presumed to have the higher floor; Leaf presumed to have the higher ceiling. Leaf was the physical specimen with nothing upstairs: Frankenstein’s monster with the Abby-normal brain.

Regardless, it’s so great we avoided the mistake altogether to instead end up with James Farrior, Dedric Ward, Leon Johnson, and Raymond Austin. Joke’s on them, amirite? ;) 

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32 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Fun fact; when Manning won the SB as a Colt, his defense was ranked 23 in pts against.  The year before when they were 1 and done, they were ranked 2nd.  The year after they won the SB, they were ranked #1, and were one and done.

I dont know what this means, nor am I actually trying to say anything but I always found that interesting.

 

 

Had no problem putting up 24 against the great blowhard REX when it counted.

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with many of these guys it's all about attitude.  there are tons of guys like gholston  that can put up[ great numbers but jut never learn how to play the game mentally.  zwill needs to have the will to win but then also have to ability to not take things on himself.  i'm sure both brady and manning had their fair share of issues with other players for either not running the right routes or dropping the ball or not making a key block etc.  it's one thing to finger point.  it's another things to tell a player they did something wrong so they'll get it right the next time.  if zwill does that, he'll be fine.  it'll be interesting to see how much latitude he'll get for changing plays at the line etc.

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1 minute ago, southparkcpa said:

Had no problem putting up 24 against the great blowhard REX when it counted.

The Colts defense scored 24 points vs. Rex?  Interesting.

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14 hours ago, T0mShane said:

If you got Steve Young a little bit drunk, he would tell you the exact same thing.

Steve Young has sustained enough CTE to always be in "little bit drunk" status.

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17 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Mystic belief in numerology is as good a reason to predict Zach will bust as any other.   Personally I would want a star chart to confirm but the 2 pick of Ryan Leaf and Zach Wilson can't be ignored.  What if Tom Shane turned out to be Q?  Wouldn't that be a kick in the tin foil hat?

It's not a mystic belief. The teams that pick QBs at 2 almost always regret it. And it's not just because these individuals like Marcus mariota and mitch trubisky aren't amazing. It's because they are forced into savior situations and the league is a building a program not holding out for a hero 

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14 minutes ago, bitonti said:

It's not a mystic belief. The teams that pick QBs at 2 almost always regret it. And it's not just because these individuals like Marcus mariota and mitch trubisky aren't amazing. It's because they are forced into savior situations and the league is a building a program not holding out for a hero 

You're making a numorolgy argument.  That's a maystic belief that goes back centuries.  You're really starting to sound like you're nuts. 

You realize TN built a very good team around Mariota and they beat the Chiefs in the playoffs.  Winston went No. 1 the same year and washed out on a Tampa Bay team that won the SB the following year with competent QB play.  Chicago also built a very good team around Trubisky that went to the playoffs.  

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11 hours ago, jgb said:

Time to start making the Zach Wilson Excuse Twister mat.

 

You cherry picking sonuvagun you.

Watson had his best year in every statistical category after OBrien traded a top 3 NFL WR for used Kleenex. After some of our board geniuses said now he would be exposed. Nope he did what elite QBs do, he just made new weaponzzinzzzz. I sure wish a Jets QB would “fail” like that. 
 

Pointing to Mahomes — or any QB losing a SB as meaning anything is hilarious. QBs don’t just hatch from an egg and find themselves in the SB. They have to get there. Anything can happen in one game.

Prescott IS a good QB. 

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No you see your theory on QBs is you fall in love with or hate a QB and you totally ignore all the metrics that do not support this decision on your part.

Good QB on Good team = big chance for success

Good QB on a bad team = no success

Mediocre or worse QB on a good team = chance for success

 

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1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

No you see your theory on QBs is you fall in love with or hate a QB and you totally ignore all the metrics that do not support this decision on your part.

Good QB on Good team = big chance for success

Good QB on a bad team = no success

Mediocre or worse QB on a good team = chance for success

 

Genuinely curious why you believe this. I've been arguing that Darnold sucks based on having the league-worst stats over 3 years. If anything, I've been called a slave to metrics and accused of not being nuanced enough to look beyond them. Seems it's his supporters who ignore reality and concoct an electric koolaid acid test dream world of what if's to convince themselves that bad really equals good.

My QB evaluation criteria in its entirety:

Good QBs play good.

Corollary

Bad QBs play bad.

Sure it'll miss the once-every-generation turnaround story like Rich Gannon (in the 13th season of his career, mind you) but it will catch all the Genos, Deshonne Kizers, and Darnolds. I'll take those odds.

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4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Manning is still one of the great choke artists to ever play the game.

He's 3-2 against Brady and Belichick in the playoffs; 3-0 if you discount the two times before spygate and mugging defenseless receivers. 

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I mean, whether you think Zach Wilson can be successful here is directly correlated with how much you believe in Joe Douglas, Robert Saleh, Mike LeFleur and the staff and infrastructure here. 

It's asking this question -- do you believe that the current regime is different than what the Jets have been in the past and are doing things the right way to support a young QB? Is there truly a new culture and scheme and way of doing things?

While it can be annoying I don't blame any national media pundit who looks at the Jets and says "that's a tough fit." Slender, young looking, Mormon who has barely ever left Utah coming to the NYC market to a team historically blanketed with toxic negativity in the media and who has failed time and time again to draft and develop QBs. If we drafted Fields #2 I think a lot of these same people would be saying the same thing (while praising the brilliant trade of the 9ers up to #3 to land Wilson.)

We just don't deserve the benefit of the doubt until we prove everyone wrong.

 

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5 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

He's 3-2 against Brady and Belichick in the playoffs; 3-0 if you discount the two times before spygate and mugging defenseless receivers. 

I don't ding him for his record against Belichick and Brady or his early struggles.

It's really the 1 and done against the Steelers (as a 15-1 team) in '05, Chargers in '07 and Chargers in '08 that leave you scratching your head. Like, there's no reason they shouldn't have won those games -- if they'd handled their business in 05 and 08 he could easily have two more rings.

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16 hours ago, HessStation said:

Btw he didn’t say Wilson wasn’t a great fit for the Jets. He basically said it doesn’t matter bc the Jets are systematically awful and doomed to suck forever...to paraphrase but that’s basically all he said 

The idea of the franchise in a never-ending vortex of suck that its impossible to produce a good QB is such circular reasoning that is impossible to verify.  There's an inherent flaw in the statement, as we know good QB's can be found on any NFL franchise, but the theory still lingers.

Teams who draft high tend to be bad franchises, and those teams tend to take QB's. 

Often, those QB's fail, but sometimes, they succeed, and some of those do so right out of the gates. 

Did the ones who succeed do so because the bad franchise finally figured out how to build around a QB? 

Or did the QB succeed because the QB was good and overcame his circumstances? 

Some think the latter is impossible, as a young QB can ONLY succeed if his circumstances are great, so this will not compute.  

In the end it really comes down to a nature vs. nurture statement:  Are great Pro QB's born or are they made?  Are the years of being bred to be a QB more significant than the supporting cast and coaching at the pro level?  Is the problem for franchises more about an inability to find a good QB, or the inability to support a good QB?

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Love how he ******* compares their stat lines like it means something. You really think you did something here huh ryan, you disingenuous turd.

To be fair im bearish on ZW, but this is just Skip Bayless levels of worthless trolling

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4 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

If we as fans have lost the desire to hope the change has come then I ask why bother being a Jets fan at all ?

You really don't get what I'm into....

clockwork orange no GIF

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43 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I mean, whether you think Zach Wilson can be successful here is directly correlated with how much you believe in Joe Douglas, Robert Saleh, Mike LeFleur and the staff and infrastructure here. 

It's asking this question -- do you believe that the current regime is different than what the Jets have been in the past and are doing things the right way to support a young QB? Is there truly a new culture and scheme and way of doing things?

While it can be annoying I don't blame any national media pundit who looks at the Jets and says "that's a tough fit." Slender, young looking, Mormon who has barely ever left Utah coming to the NYC market to a team historically blanketed with toxic negativity in the media and who has failed time and time again to draft and develop QBs. If we drafted Fields #2 I think a lot of these same people would be saying the same thing (while praising the brilliant trade of the 9ers up to #3 to land Wilson.)

We just don't deserve the benefit of the doubt until we prove everyone wrong.

 

Good post.  I wouldn't blame the National media either.  You do have to wonder about certain "knowledgable" Jets fans, some on this board who make the SOJ argument as if the Jets were the Cleveland Browns of 4 years ago.   Didn't the Browns make the playoffs last year?   Never mind.  

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