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Rank-a-Bust (Sanchez v. Geno v. Darnold)


Rank-a-Bust  

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  1. 1. Who do you rank #1 (best) of the 3?

  2. 2. Who do you rank #2 of the 3?

  3. 3. Who do you rank #3 (worst) of the 3?



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The real bust were the Jet GMs for these QBs.  They didn't surround their QBs with talent and to make it worse they surrounded all 3 with absolute dog crap on offense.  Sanchez was coming of

nuking a dead horse from orbit.

Reasons Sam Darnold is a bust: Drafted 3rd overall, including a trade up of 3 2nd round picks. Leagues worst QB over 3 years in DVOA and DYAR Leagues 2nd worst QB over 3 years wh

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6 hours ago, jgb said:

Sanchez clear #1 for me. Darnold v. Geno was a tough call -- but gave edge to Geno because he was just so much cheaper to acquire even though he is one of the most unlikeable Jets of my lifetime.

# 1 worst bust or # 1 favorite bust?

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6 hours ago, static14 said:

nuking a dead horse from orbit.

 

6 hours ago, jgb said:

Was the thread title not clear enough? Why are you here then?

 

C'mon man that was funny, lol.  I've never heard that clever use of the dead horse saying before!  You should be proud that this thread deserved such usage!

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6 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Sanchez was a post season phenom. 

No.  You can credit Sanchez with a few nice postseason throws, and even a nice game or 2 out of the 6, without calling him a "phenom". 

That's just your Jet fan "we haven't made the playoffs in a decade so everything was awesome when we did" spirit talking.

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6 hours ago, TeddEY said:

A 2nd round pick requiring no trade up, who despite his failings is the best QB from his draft class, and who’s made a nice career as a backup QB doesn’t belong in the conversation of Jets QB busts, let alone presumptive Top 3.

Fair, but he was also ranked the # 1 QB from the 2013 class.  That was a horrific class, yes, but we didn't really know that at the time, and Smith was a projected 1st round pick as I recall.  Geno Smith was drafted to be a potential starter so I think its fair to include him. 

Hackenberg absolutely needs to be in the poll too, however.  Either both Smith and Hackenberg need to be in it or neither.  @jgb just despises Geno so he included him and forgot about Hackenberg, lol.

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5 hours ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Because then it makes this argument too easy. We all know Hack was the worst. What’s there to debate??

I bet there are some who don't agree he was the worst.  Those people are silly but I bet they're out there.

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4 hours ago, JiFapono said:

100%.  Geno is in the league, started during an 8-8 season.  Hack picked in the same round, never even dressed.  lmfao

It's arguably the worst pick in franchise history.

I would argue worst pick in NFL history.  Macc took a 6th round prospect in round 2, with the expectation he'd be a franchise QB, then after a full year, passed on Watson and Mahomes because he still believed in Hackenberg.  He took a Box Safety instead.

Worst pick in NFL history by the worst GM in NFL history.  His magnum opus. 

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18 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Fair, but he was also ranked the # 1 QB from the 2013 class.  That was a horrific class, yes, but we didn't really know that at the time, and Smith was a projected 1st round pick as I recall.  Geno Smith was drafted to be a potential starter so I think its fair to include him. 

Hackenberg absolutely needs to be in the poll too, however.  Either both Smith and Hackenberg need to be in it or neither.  @jgb just despises Geno so he included him and forgot about Hackenberg, lol.

Looking back, the whole 2013 draft sort of sucked.  But as for QBs, did we not know that at the time? 

The top QBs were EJ Manuel, Mike Glennon, Matt Barkley, and Geno Smith.  I won't claim to remember much about the prognostication, but I do remember that EJ Manuel was considered a massive reach as the first QB taken at 16 (When was the last time the first QB picked was taken at 16 or lower?) and was the only QB taken that round (When was the last time only 1 QB went in round 1?) and that the presumptive top QB in the draft fell to the 2nd round, and 7 picks into it (If there was a lot of expectations re: Geno Smith around the league, someone trades into round 1, or at least to pick 33).

Yes, he was drafted to be a starter, but with a back-up/project starter investment.  It's not comparable to Sanchez, Darnold, or Wilson in terms of expectations.  Keep in mind, the Jets had two 1st round picks that year, and neither were deemed worth using on the future starting QB.

I think Hackenberg goes in over Smith, easily.  Smith is a backup caliber QB taken in the 2nd round.  That's not even remotely noteworthy.  Hackenberg is perhaps the only QB in NFL history to be taken in the 2nd round and never play a down, despite being completely healthy.  Hackenberg is a historic bust in that regard.

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3 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I think you need to realistically need to see what Darnold does going forward. We've seen it with Sanchez (had a few decent years as backup with the Eagles, then washed out of the league) and Geno (turned into a long term backup.)

Even then it's kind of all about the criteria you apply -- especially given that Sanchez was handed the keys to a Rolls Royce and Geno and Darnold were fighting for their lives.

I already assumed in my analysis that Darnold will fail with Carolina and all subsequent stops.  In the extremely unlikely event he proves me wrong, he would potentially vault ahead of Geno and Sanchez in my eyes.  But for now, he's the worst bust until he proves otherwise.  

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3 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

His number one receiver was Clyde Gates.

No, in 2013 Jeremy Kerley (72 targets) was his # 1, followed by David Nelson (60 targets).  Santonio Holmes (59), Stephen Hill (59) and 3 others (Powell, Kellen Winslow, Jeff Cumberland) also all received more targets than Gates (24).

In 2014 his # 1 target was Eric Decker (115 targets) followed by Kerley (75), Jace Amaro (53) and Percy Harvin (52).  Gates was off the team by then.

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2 hours ago, Warfish said:

From best to worst:  Sanchez <---- Darnold <---- Geno

Seems kinda obvious really.

 

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

A second round pick selected at #51, no matter how horrible, can never compare to a top-5 1st round pick bust, especially one we had to trade multiple high round picks to acquire.

 

Then by this argument you should have Geno ahead of Darnold, no?

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Here's a question for the group -- if Sam Darnold was drafted 5th overall by the 2009 Jets do those teams have the same level of success as they had with Sanchez? Better? Worse?
I ask because particularly in hindsight they've got pretty similar profiles, one was just extremely well supported and one wasn't at all... And even though Darnold seems to be clearly a bigger "bust" I can't shake the feeling that he's also the better player.

My heart says that Sam would have done better. My head says no he wouldn’t have. I just never saw the kind of leadership and earned loyalty one should expect from a FQB. Leadership shows even when talent is slim, and I just never ever saw it.

None of us will ever truly know, but Sam’s time in Carolina will be an interesting datapoint. But when I try to imagine the Carolina cast being lead to greatness by Sam, I find that I simply can’t imagine it. It apparently requires an imagination more fertile than mine.
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16 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Looking back, the whole 2013 draft sort of sucked.  But as for QBs, did we not know that at the time? 

The top QBs were EJ Manuel, Mike Glennon, Matt Barkley, and Geno Smith.  I won't claim to remember much about the prognostication, but I do remember that EJ Manuel was considered a massive reach as the first QB taken at 16 (When was the last time the first QB picked was taken at 16 or lower?) and was the only QB taken that round (When was the last time only 1 QB went in round 1?) and that the presumptive top QB in the draft fell to the 2nd round, and 7 picks into it (If there was a lot of expectations re: Geno Smith around the league, someone trades into round 1, or at least to pick 33).

Yes, he was drafted to be a starter, but with a back-up/project starter investment.  It's not comparable to Sanchez, Darnold, or Wilson in terms of expectations.  Keep in mind, the Jets had two 1st round picks that year, and neither were deemed worth using on the future starting QB.

I think Hackenberg goes in over Smith, easily.  Smith is a backup caliber QB taken in the 2nd round.  That's not even remotely noteworthy.  Hackenberg is perhaps the only QB in NFL history to be taken in the 2nd round and never play a down, despite being completely healthy.  Hackenberg is a historic bust in that regard.

 

True.  Pre-draft, the media/analysts were pushing the idea of Geno being a 1st round prospect, though now I recall he was even falling in media and analyst mock drafts/big boards late in the game because of poor interviews he'd had with teams, suggestions he had a bad attitude, etc. 

During the draft, yeah, the lack of movement to get Smith, including Idzik passing on him twice, and him going well after EJ Manuel, absolutely suggests the media members who still had Smith as a 1st round prospect had that one dead wrong.  

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Fair, but he was also ranked the # 1 QB from the 2013 class.  That was a horrific class, yes, but we didn't really know that at the time, and Smith was a projected 1st round pick as I recall.  Geno Smith was drafted to be a potential starter so I think its fair to include him. 

Hackenberg absolutely needs to be in the poll too, however.  Either both Smith and Hackenberg need to be in it or neither.  @jgb just despises Geno so he included him and forgot about Hackenberg, lol.

I do despise Geno. I got that bust stink off him after his antics in the Green Room/agent-gate. Screamed a dude who lacked the maturity to shrug off adversity and learn from failure. I also believed his teammates would hate him. And apparently at least one did. A lot. lol.

BUT, seemingly paradoxically, I do not believe he was a bad draft pick. He was -- as you reference -- an early favorite to be #1 overall at the end of his Jr. season. He slid after regressing his Sr. year.* That's a very good type of QB to take in the 2nd round. Plenty of things to kill Idzik over, picking Geno at #52 or whatever it was isn't one of them, even though Geno geno'd and I hate his half-mouth-open face almost as much as IK's fist hates it.

*Just looked up his stats, his Sr. year looks pretty damn good by the numbers. Maybe the knock was he didn't progress enough?

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34 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

No, in 2013 Jeremy Kerley (72 targets) was his # 1, followed by David Nelson (60 targets).  Santonio Holmes (59), Stephen Hill (59) and 3 others (Powell, Kellen Winslow, Jeff Cumberland) also all received more targets than Gates (24).

In 2014 his # 1 target was Eric Decker (115 targets) followed by Kerley (75), Jace Amaro (53) and Percy Harvin (52).  Gates was off the team by then.

It was a joke -- I was scoffing at the idea that Geno had elite weapons.

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

C'mon man that was funny, lol.  I've never heard that clever use of the dead horse saying before!  You should be proud that this thread deserved such usage!

Apparently my sarcasm was lost, as usual.

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

# 1 worst bust or # 1 favorite bust?

Sanchez was best of the 3. Sport is about entertainment and granted a lot of it was right place/right time but I enjoyed watching Sanchez for two years. Darnold for one year. Geno never -- I almost got banned several times for being so immediately, violently and virulently anti-Geno after the draft. But Darnold's prohibitive cost dunked him below Geno. He hurt the Jets more.

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2 hours ago, Jets0712 said:

I’m gonna go with what if’s.... if Rex didn’t keep sanchez in in the snoopy bowl. If Geno didn’t get himself punched in the jaw... and if Darnold had better coaching. We MAY have had something with all 3. But we’ll never know. Bust wise with the Jets. I’ll give it to Sam but realistically the jury’s still out in on him


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That can all be true but have you considered the possibility that both the team and Darnold sucked?

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20 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

It was a joke -- I was scoffing at the idea that Geno had elite weapons.

Geno had a close encounter with one elite weapon

Fight Hand Gesture. Black Man Clenched Fist, Ready To Punch,.. Stock Photo,  Picture And Royalty Free Image. Image 78572418.

Sidenote: I wonder if he believed in flat earth before that punch. Has he been checked for CTE?

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7 hours ago, TeddEY said:

A 2nd round pick requiring no trade up, who despite his failings is the best QB from his draft class, and who’s made a nice career as a backup QB doesn’t belong in the conversation of Jets QB busts, let alone presumptive Top 3.

Are we ranking how good the player is/was or how big a bust were they?

Im confused 

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1 minute ago, Obrien2Toon said:

Are we ranking how good the player is/was or how big a bust were they?

Im confused 

It's not top 3 historic Jets busts. It's ranking the recent 3 highly-drafted starters.

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7 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Sanchez was a post season phenom. 

Geno was robbed of his potential by his broked jaw. 

Watching Sam play last year was worst than watching liposuction videos with the sound on. 

Sam Darnold could have used an IK Enkempali to rob him of his potential. He tried to do it himself with Mono, but needed a longer term solution.

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3 hours ago, jgb said:

Jets had to cut him. The bill to repair broken windows at the practice facility was adding up.

He threw hard enough to break windows?  See?  Proof he was better than Pennington and we drafted that dude in the first!

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2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

He threw hard enough to break windows?  See?  Proof he was better than Pennington and we drafted that dude in the first!

Well played, sir.

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3 hours ago, Jets0712 said:

I’m gonna go with what if’s.... if Rex didn’t keep sanchez in in the snoopy bowl. If Geno didn’t get himself punched in the jaw... and if Darnold had better coaching. We MAY have had something with all 3. But we’ll never know. Bust wise with the Jets. I’ll give it to Sam but realistically the jury’s still out in on him


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If I never faced any adversity there would never have been any adversity in my life!

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Sanchez did the most but everything was given to him.  You put Sam on those Jets teams and I firmly believe that the story on him right now is very different.  I also believe that we may win one of those championship games.  Darnold also still has a chance to salvage his career. 

Geno, however, is the worst for his attitude, work ethic, and immaturity.  He had the physical tools, but I still think he’s the worst of the 3 because of everything else.

 

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6 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

If I never faced any adversity there would never have been any adversity in my life!

This tautology is definitely a truism. 

Or maybe I have that backwards.

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My take was who's the biggest bust.  I think it may have been intended as purely the players in rank order.

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1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

Looking back, the whole 2013 draft sort of sucked.  But as for QBs, did we not know that at the time? 

The top QBs were EJ Manuel, Mike Glennon, Matt Barkley, and Geno Smith.  I won't claim to remember much about the prognostication, but I do remember that EJ Manuel was considered a massive reach as the first QB taken at 16 (When was the last time the first QB picked was taken at 16 or lower?) and was the only QB taken that round (When was the last time only 1 QB went in round 1?) and that the presumptive top QB in the draft fell to the 2nd round, and 7 picks into it (If there was a lot of expectations re: Geno Smith around the league, someone trades into round 1, or at least to pick 33).

Yes, he was drafted to be a starter, but with a back-up/project starter investment.  It's not comparable to Sanchez, Darnold, or Wilson in terms of expectations.  Keep in mind, the Jets had two 1st round picks that year, and neither were deemed worth using on the future starting QB.

I think Hackenberg goes in over Smith, easily.  Smith is a backup caliber QB taken in the 2nd round.  That's not even remotely noteworthy.  Hackenberg is perhaps the only QB in NFL history to be taken in the 2nd round and never play a down, despite being completely healthy.  Hackenberg is a historic bust in that regard.

The lack of QBs up top wasn't that uncommon in the olden days.  I think as the contracts went wild QBs became commodities and teams no longer pass.  Need or no need.  In 2000 Pennington went 18.  He was the only one to go in the 1st.  It wasn't that bad a QB class.  Brady and Marc Bulger went in the 6th. The next year Vick went #1 and Brees didn't go until #32 which was the 2nd round because there still weren't any Texans. The next closest was 2010 when Bradford went #1 and the only other taken was Tebow went #25, but was that really as a QB? 

In 1988 and 1996 no QBs were taken.  In 1989 only Aikman.  In 1997 only Jim Drunken-Miller @ #26.  I think 2005 is both the "old ways" and the reason for the new era.  There was talk about Rodgers or Smith going #1 overall.  The Niners chose Smith and Rodgers lasted until #24.  Teams look at that and now they jump up to snatch these guys.  They don't flop around until the 2nd unless they have huge flaws.  

The point of this trivia lesson is that teams now move up for QBs even when they don't need them.  They look at them as trade chips or value beyond.  Sometimes geezers like me look at guys with flaws and think we should wait until the 2nd or later, but the fact is somebody is going to take a swing. It is why people thought you could wait on Mahomes.  Old-time-y thinking.  If the Niners waited on Lance they are probably looking at Mac Jones.  In fact, they'd probably be lucky to be looking at Mac Jones.  Some of you might like that idea.  John Lynch and I don't. 

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I already assumed in my analysis that Darnold will fail with Carolina and all subsequent stops.  In the extremely unlikely event he proves me wrong, he would potentially vault ahead of Geno and Sanchez in my eyes.  But for now, he's the worst bust until he proves otherwise.  

Even if he becomes Joe Montana in Carolina or elsewhere he's an all-time Jets BUST.

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

True.  Pre-draft, the media/analysts were pushing the idea of Geno being a 1st round prospect, though now I recall he was even falling in media and analyst mock drafts/big boards late in the game because of poor interviews he'd had with teams, suggestions he had a bad attitude, etc. 

During the draft, yeah, the lack of movement to get Smith, including Idzik passing on him twice, and him going well after EJ Manuel, absolutely suggests the media members who still had Smith as a 1st round prospect had that one dead wrong.  

Apparently in one interview he wouldn't stop texting. Also the whole draft fiasco when he threatened to leave New York after he wasn't picked in the first round, only to reverse his decision hours/a day later (undoubtedly after a heart-to-heart with his agent) and then fire his agent after the draft -- was all I needed to slap the bust sticker on him.

20 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

My take was who's the biggest bust.  I think it may have been intended as purely the players in rank order.

Nah, biggest bust.

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